The Christian and the use of violence

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Exegete

Guest
#1
#1
Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44,45) and that we should "turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:39, Luke 6:29). With these verses in mind, is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#2
Jul 18, 2017
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#2
Exegete said:
... is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
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Self-defense, the defense of your family, or the defense of your country, against evildoers in not "taking up violence" but protecting from violence, murder, and mayhem.
 
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Exegete

Guest
#3
#3
Lactantius (writing between AD 304 - AD313) "The Christian does injury to no one. He does not desire the property of others. In fact, he does not even defend his own property if it is taken from him by violence. For he knows how to patiently bear and injury inflicted upon him...We do not resist those who injure us, for we must yield to them...When provoked by injury, if he returns violence to his assailant, he is defeated."
 
NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#4
Dec 6, 2015
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A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#4
I guess the definition of the term "violence", would depend on who's lips they were emanating from, eh? When one is in a war, and believe me, every man, woman, child, or baby, is in this war. Mostly, unseen! Yet, that does not prohibit "physical manifestations", of defending, NOR contending "FOR THE FAITH", when times, situations, needs, or preservation's, "mandate" it!! Ya see? Jehovah OUR BANNER, is not just, a "marker", or target, for the enemies of our faith, to hone in on. His PRIMARY "mission" (if you will), is to be carried ONWARDS!!...INTO WARFARE!! As a RALLYING POINT!! As well, as a RALLYING CRY!!

Sure, when bullets fly, people die! But, as for me? I would rather die, in my defending, and contending, for the faith that is ours, in Christ Jesus my Lord and Savior. And not be cowered in some corner!

But, to answer the OP, what violence is, in one's eyes, is (a) defense, or, (a) contending FOR, in another's. Depends on which "side of the fence", one sits on, eh? :eek:
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#5
Jan 18, 2016
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#5
Exegete said:
Lactantius (writing between AD 304 - AD313) "The Christian does injury to no one. He does not desire the property of others. In fact, he does not even defend his own property if it is taken from him by violence. For he knows how to patiently bear and injury inflicted upon him...We do not resist those who injure us, for we must yield to them...When provoked by injury, if he returns violence to his assailant, he is defeated."
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I don't know about Lactantius, but Jesus told his apostles to "bring a sword" with them. He also used violence to make the point about reverence in God's house.

Using violence is very much a matter of discretion. If you are protecting innocent life, or in the military, etc... violence is sometimes necessary. We are not, however, to live a life of violence.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#6
Sep 4, 2012
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#6
Exegete said:
Lactantius (writing between AD 304 - AD313) "The Christian does injury to no one. He does not desire the property of others. In fact, he does not even defend his own property if it is taken from him by violence. For he knows how to patiently bear and injury inflicted upon him...We do not resist those who injure us, for we must yield to them...When provoked by injury, if he returns violence to his assailant, he is defeated."
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Rhetoricians were like lawyers.


Lactantius was probably a teacher of rhetoric before his conversion. In that era, the term rhetoric referred to the art of persuasion, whether written or spoken. Having a background in rhetoric served Lactantius well as a Christian writer. His works are not considered to be theologically “deep,” and many commentators pointedly mention that he was a rhetorician, not a theologian.
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https://www.gotquestions.org/Lactantius.html
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#7
#7
Exegete said:
Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44,45) and that we should "turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:39, Luke 6:29). With these verses in mind, is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
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The same Jesus who made a whip for the money changers in the temple. And the same Jehovah that set Israelites to war.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#8
Apr 18, 2016
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#8
We are to follow Christ's example; we are not to use violence.
 
jameen

jameen

Senior Member
#9
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#9
Be harmless as doves (Matthew 10:16)

but it is not bad if you need to arm yourself against terrorists and criminals who posed danger to your property and loved ones. even the law of man does not forbid it.

but if you will hurt or kill someone out of revenge or anger, then you are not following what Jesus commanded in Matthew I posted.
 
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mcubed

Senior Member
#10
Dec 20, 2013
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#10
Exegete said:
Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44,45) and that we should "turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:39, Luke 6:29). With these verses in mind, is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
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You call me or my child a bastard, guess what, i'll turn the other cheek. Call me nun saved, I'll turn the other cheek too. Invade my country I'll be in line to shoot you. Tell me where G-d did not demand His people to kill and woman and children for the promised land!?! And even fight to keep it!?! In fact He said whip out everyone; even women and children, ass and so on... If you are referring to the promise land, YES, G-d told us to kill of of you for it!!!!!! Read your Bible!!!!
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#11
May 23, 2012
12,330
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#11
Exegete said:
Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44,45) and that we should "turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:39, Luke 6:29). With these verses in mind, is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
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Yes . Jesus was no pacifists He is the Prince of Peace. In addition, HE will establish HIS kingdom by Force. Sin the cause of war. God uses war for His will. There is a time to fight or for war as the Ecclesiastes 3:8



[SUP]“8 [/SUP]A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.” Jesus will return His people will be at war. Standing against attacks on the word of God or for the Supremacy of Christ “ they loved not their Lives unto death.” Will cost us . We can fight. We will die. We will also witness all is done in the timing of God.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#12
Sep 3, 2016
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#12
Beloved, God has called us to go the second mile. The first mile is where everybody is. The second mile is going to require a press, stamina, and what the Lord has said. The first mile is a eye for a eye, tooth for a tooth...the second mile is love your enemies. The first mile - The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)[salvation]...The second mile...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23) [sanctification]. Are you in the second mile?

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:14 NIV

I Die Daily: Deny your flesh and carry your Cross daily
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​

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Bladerunner

Bladerunner

Senior Member
#13
Aug 22, 2016
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#13
hornetguy said:
I don't know about Lactantius, but Jesus told his apostles to "bring a sword" with them. He also used violence to make the point about reverence in God's house.

Using violence is very much a matter of discretion. If you are protecting innocent life, or in the military, etc... violence is sometimes necessary. We are not, however, to live a life of violence.
Click to expand...

He was a Christian Latin Apologist who lived during the time Emperor Constantine, who married the State and Church?

I agree with you on the violence. For myself, I can turn the other cheek but for others, protection through violence is sometimes needed.

 
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Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#14
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
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#14
I absolutely would not wish this on anyone... but I wonder what the pacifists would do if their wives were being raped, their sons cut and beaten by bullies, or their daughters being dragged off by traffickers. Pacifism is an armchair theory.
 
Bladerunner

Bladerunner

Senior Member
#15
Aug 22, 2016
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#15
Depleted said:
The same Jesus who made a whip for the money changers in the temple. And the same Jehovah that set Israelites to war.
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Don't forget about Jesus who will come back to claim the property He paid for on the Cross.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#16
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#16
MessageOfTheCross said:
Beloved, God has called us to go the second mile. The first mile is where everybody is. The second mile is going to require a press, stamina, and what the Lord has said. The first mile is a eye for a eye, tooth for a tooth...the second mile is love your enemies. The first mile - The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)[salvation]...The second mile...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23) [sanctification]. Are you in the second mile?

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:14 NIV

I Die Daily: Deny your flesh and carry your Cross daily
​






​

​
Click to expand...
​The Glorious Company

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For you have not come to the mountain that[SUP][c][/SUP] may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness[SUP][d][/SUP] and tempest, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. [SUP]20 [/SUP](For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned[SUP][e][/SUP] or shot with an arrow.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”[SUP][g][/SUP])​
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:18-24​
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#17
Jul 18, 2017
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#17
Bladerunner said:
Don't forget about Jesus who will come back to claim the property He paid for on the Cross.
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At the second coming of Christ, He comes in flaming fire to take vengeance of His enemies and the enemies of His people.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#18
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#18
Dino246 said:
I absolutely would not wish this on anyone... but I wonder what the pacifists would do if their wives were being raped, their sons cut and beaten by bullies, or their daughters being dragged off by traffickers. Pacifism is an armchair theory.
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This is pretty much how the Lord dealt with me on this matter. When first saved, I had a turn the other cheek attitude. I could idly stand by as someone did me harm, I thought no big deal. Then the Lord gave me a scenario: If I knew there were terrorist on the way to wipe out my entire family, but first tied me up while they made me watch as they raped and killed the females; and then they would kill the males, then me. He asked if I could do something to prevent it, would I? I said you would have to forgive me but I would use deadly force to prevent that. The Lord said: Nothing to forgive so you should.

That turning the other cheek, is about refusing a duel upon an insult. Like the aristocrats do with their gloves to provoke a duel (in Matt. 5:39).




 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#19
Jul 24, 2016
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#19
Exegete said:
Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matt 5:44,45) and that we should "turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:39, Luke 6:29). With these verses in mind, is there ever a time when a Christian should take up violence whether in the name of God or for one's country?
Click to expand...
A Christian should never engage in physical violence..
 
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