Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Did I read this right? (Scripture)

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#21
"After the similitude" here is after the manner of Adam.... There are many sins , anything against Love is a sin......take it from there. It is impossible not to sin, especially after hearing what Jesus has taught us about even wanting something in your mind being a sin, coveting.......

Adam was given a direct order fromthe Mouth of ur Father and He was persuaded by the woman, Eve, to disobey Him.....Unless God has spoken to you an dyou have disobeyed Him, you have not sinned after the similitud ofAdam.......


Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Now... I know people are ready with their pitchforks, anticipating an argument for sinless perfectionism, but I am not making that argument. This verse just caught my eye, saying that some people didn't sin in the likeness of Adam's sin.

Am I reading that correctly, that some people didn't sin, or is it saying they didn't sin in the particular way Adam sinned? I understand as we read the context it is speaking of Adam's transgression and it bringing condemnation to all, to everyone.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#22
Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
:confused: None of us can have a similar sin than that of Adam because none of us can eat ofthe fruit of the tree anymore…. ;)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#23
All it's saying IMO is that we are all born with the sinful nature because of Adam's sin. Even before we commit a sin, we have the potential to sin because of the fallen nature of our flesh.
I agree. But as to it being a potential to sin...I look at it as a given, not a potential. Every man IS going to sin, because he was born in adams likeness. All men are born in adams corrupted image/likeness. That's how my mind sees it anyway.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#24
To sin after the similitude of Adam would be to sin while having been created without any sin nature in you. It is impossible for us to sin after the similitude of Adam because we were born WITH his sin nature in us.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#25
We are all given bodies of flesh like Adam after the fall that will die.

Yet in Christ we look to be raised again in indestructible bodies not made of blood and not prone to sickness, aging or death.

However these temporary tents will die, decay and return to dust. Even if we were able to be sinless like Jesus, these bodies aren't made for eternity.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#26
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This is the scripture that tells you that all people sinned and all people died.

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

This is just saying that not everyone sinned in the same way that Adam did.

It is NOT contradicting Romans 5:12 and saying there is a group of people that did not sin but still died.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#27
There are lots of scriptures like this where people think it is saying one thing but if they read a little further or back up a little, reconciling scripture with scripture, it is easy to see the true intent of what was being said.

It would be easy to isolate Romans 5:14 to "prove" that people could be sinless even before the New Covenant. But when you take all scripture into account you see this isn't the case.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#28
That's a very interesting passage that I was not aware of. Seems like each time that I read the bible I notice something that I had missed previously or even considered. I believe that it probably refers, like you are surmising that there are people that didn't sin in the particular way that Adam did. I'm not sure what way that was because as far as I can tell the bible only mentioned one time how Adam sinned by sharing the forbidden fruit with Eve because he really didn't want to live if she were to die.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#29
All it's saying IMO is that we are all born with the sinful nature because of Adam's sin. Even before we commit a sin, we have the potential to sin because of the fallen nature of our flesh.
That's correct, we are all born with a sin nature with a potential to sin.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#30
I get that as well, but the elephant in the room (so to speak) is that some people after Adam "had not sinned in the similitude of Adam's transgression" or didn't "sin as Adam sinned." So whilst they themselves didn't sin, Adam's sin still affected humanity (after the Fall) because people were dying. Not to say everyone was sinless, but the verse seems to suggest some people didn't sin themselves.

This is actually very interesting. How far down the line of history was it before sin was rampant to the degree that it is today? Was there a period of time where sin grew exponentially? Was it gradual?
I believe, based on past history and current events that the evils of sin grows at an exponential rate and has since the first sin that was committed.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#31
Something about Adam's sin made him a figure of him that was to come...Jesus Christ. Adam knew what he was doing. He was not deceived. As a type of Christ that was to come, Adam became sin by sinning to be with his bride. What Adam could not do is rescue his bride from her sin. The last Adam accomplished what the first Adam could not accomplish. Romans 4, 1 Corinthians 15.
The reason adam sinned was to be with his bride? I don't understand. He was with her already.
I had thought eve was deceived and ate. Then adam saw that she didn't die by eating it, so then he ate too because there appeared to be no consequence for eve and it appereared that she didn't die as God had said one would if they ate.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#32
Since the eternal has always existed and will always exist, then of anything which is eternal would never have a beginning nor would it ever die.

So if Adam was created then he would not have always existed.

Therefore it is without question that Adam had a beginning.

Thus if only the eternal is without beginning, the Adam would not have been eternal.

So if only the eternal does not die, then how did the death of Adam result from sin if
the only sin Adam could have committed would have been if he did not die?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#33
Been thinking real hard on this thought a few have shared that maybe adam ate because if eve was going to die then he wanted to die too.

I sure do like the thought. But I don't know if I believe it. I can't think of any other verses that support the thought, but at the same time, eve ate and was corrupted but adam had not yet eaten, so he wasn't corrupted yet, so I guess he COULD have done something completely selfless at that point still. Then again, it wasn't selfless, because is it ever a selfless act to disobey God?

So...before adam was even corrupted, he chose eve over God...which would BE corrupted...hmm...
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#34
This just might be the one that finally explodes my head...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#35
Been thinking real hard on this thought a few have shared that maybe adam ate because if eve was going to die then he wanted to die too.

I sure do like the thought. But I don't know if I believe it. I can't think of any other verses that support the thought, but at the same time, eve ate and was corrupted but adam had not yet eaten, so he wasn't corrupted yet, so I guess he COULD have done something completely selfless at that point still. Then again, it wasn't selfless, because is it ever a selfless act to disobey God?

So...before adam was even corrupted, he chose eve over God...which would BE corrupted...hmm...
He placed being with Eve over being with God.

Some people still idolize their spouses over communion with God.

Just listen to some love songs or in some cases lusts songs
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#36
Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Now... I know people are ready with their pitchforks, anticipating an argument for sinless perfectionism, but I am not making that argument. This verse just caught my eye, saying that some people didn't sin in the likeness of Adam's sin.

Am I reading that correctly, that some people didn't sin, or is it saying they didn't sin in the particular way Adam sinned? I understand as we read the context it is speaking of Adam's transgression and it bringing condemnation to all, to everyone.
Focusing in the words similitude, figure or parable.I would see that portion of scripture more as a parable hiding the spiritual truth formnatural man, revealing the unseen spiritual understanding, as spiritual words spokento his children (Christians.)

Matthew13:34 King James Version All thesethings spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parablespake he not unto them:

Mark4:11 King James Version And he saidunto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

It wouldseem in that verse you offered the word similitude represents the spiritual understanding
we receive in parables, or called dark speeches.


Parables inthat way hide the meaning from the lost.


Numbers12:8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in darkspeeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then wereye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

I think in the
whole context of that verse you offered which I have offered below even more for context is to represent a parable noted by the word similitude, a comparison hiding the spiritual understanding from those who know not Christ as a dark saying in order to inform us the gift isnot as the offence. Ruling out universalism.


Romans5:13-15 King James Version (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world:but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned fromAdam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude ofAdam's transgression, who is the figure of
him that was to come. But not as theoffence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many bedead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man,Jesus Christ, hath abounded
unto many. (many not all Ruling out universalism.)

Adam is the figure of him
that was to come.
Not the person(Christ)who came thousands of years later but a figure, as a shadow.

The verse below the word all is used two ways, onein respect to all of mankind and the other all as in as many theFather gave to the Son.(the Elect)


1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The all isused as two generations or beginnings using Adam to represent both. One generation that ends in death and the other eternal life.


(1)The generationof those who look to signs and wonders as a source of Christian faith (natural man) called the evil generation.


(2) The other the generation of Christ as born again children of God.


The firstAdam sinned as his soul died mankind was corrupted without God in this present world. That last Adam (Jesus the Christ) a life giving spirit


1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made aliving soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
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#37
Been thinking real hard on this thought a few have shared that maybe adam ate because if eve was going to die then he wanted to die too.

I sure do like the thought. But I don't know if I believe it. I can't think of any other verses that support the thought, but at the same time, eve ate and was corrupted but adam had not yet eaten, so he wasn't corrupted yet, so I guess he COULD have done something completely selfless at that point still. Then again, it wasn't selfless, because is it ever a selfless act to disobey God?

So...before adam was even corrupted, he chose eve over God...which would BE corrupted...hmm...
I don't think Adam wanted to die if his wife was going to, as romantic as that may sound. But I do think his love for her has a great deal to do with what he did.

I think he believed that God would save them, but that if he left her for dead, God may destroy her. With both of them poisoned I think he relied on God's mercy. He told God, the woman 'you gave me' -- as though to plea that she, just as he, belonged to and came from God.

Does that make sense? I mean Adam wasn't stupid and he wasn't unaware. I am sure he loved her and I believe he was trying to do whatever could to ensure God would save her. He realized right away that God was in fact working salvation when they were judged, I think, too - and that's exactly why he renamed her Eve then.
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#38
Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Now... I know people are ready with their pitchforks, anticipating an argument for sinless perfectionism, but I am not making that argument. This verse just caught my eye, saying that some people didn't sin in the likeness of Adam's sin.

Am I reading that correctly, that some people didn't sin, or is it saying they didn't sin in the particular way Adam sinned? I understand as we read the context it is speaking of Adam's transgression and it bringing condemnation to all, to everyone.
What that verse is saying that many did not sin as Adam sinned. Adam was told to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But he disobeyed, That was a one-time sin. But Cain sinned by hating and murdering his brother. And the people of Noah's day engaged in all kinds of wickedness. So between Adam and Moses, human beings were sinning in various ways, but not exactly as Adam had sinned. That's all that verse is saying. It has nothing to do with sinless perfection, but everything to do with sinful humanity.

But the passage goes on to say that sin could not be "imputed" where there was no Law. That simply means that SPECIFIC CHARGES could not be laid without the Law, which spelled out exactly which sin was being committed. That did not mean that God would not judge those sinners for their "sinfulness". Hence Noah's Flood.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#39
Well, this received a lot of interesting responses over night and in the morning. lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
I don't think Adam wanted to die if his wife was going to, as romantic as that may sound. But I do think his love for her has a great deal to do with what he did.

I think he believed that God would save them, but that if he left her for dead, God may destroy her. With both of them poisoned I think he relied on God's mercy. He told God, the woman 'you gave me' -- as though to plea that she, just as he, belonged to and came from God.

Does that make sense? I mean Adam wasn't stupid and he wasn't unaware. I am sure he loved her and I believe he was trying to do whatever could to ensure God would save her. He realized right away that God was in fact working salvation when they were judged, I think, too - and that's exactly why he renamed her Eve then.

I thin he blame shifted, he slighhted god and blamed him saying “the woman you gave me” it proved his spiritual death, the things of god were now foolish to him, he could not think straight,

i think he sinned because he was afraid god would take her and leave him alone abain, he did not want to go back, in essence, he lacked faith in god to take care of situation, thats why he sinned, do to unbelief.

of course this is nust my view, we can all ask adam one day what he really thought.