Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Did I read this right? (Scripture)

[BenFTW]

"after the similitude of Adam's transgression"


Hmmm... what was Adam's transgression?

Hmmm... he violated a direct command of God by eating the wrong piece of fruit.

Hmmm... not many people have sinned in that exact same way.




There is no mystery here.

You have to reach pretty hard to create confusion where things are simple and clear.

Yeah, before I posted this thread I also went into the Greek and checked out similitude, and from that I got the gist that it simply meant what you stated. Its a very literal interpretation, they literally didn't sin in the same way Adam did. The verse though, did seem to suggest at face value some people not sinning, but once you look at context and the Greek it all makes sense.

 

[BenFTW]

sidetracked a little too lol

I don't mind, some interesting back and forth between people. When I went to Romans 4, what stuck out to me was God not imputing sin. The way it is expressed is like a current reality, present moment truth. Kind of made me want to make a post on it. Also us not being under the Law, being dead to it, does that also mean we cannot transgress it? Since, we aren't under it. That would be quite the topic as people will jump on the bandwagon of licentiousness (as an accusation) really quick. lol

 

[BenFTW]

Just my thoughts but the law came through moses so before moses there was no law to break which means their was no sin to commit, unless the tree of knowledge of god and evil was planted outside the garden of eden, which we know is not the case

The people before moses were born under the punishment and because so they paid the price which was death

Sin was still committed, but sin was not imputed (it states).

[h=1]Romans 5:13 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.[/FONT]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't mind, some interesting back and forth between people. When I went to Romans 4, what stuck out to me was God not imputing sin. The way it is expressed is like a current reality, present moment truth. Kind of made me want to make a post on it. Also us not being under the Law, being dead to it, does that also mean we cannot transgress it? Since, we aren't under it. That would be quite the topic as people will jump on the bandwagon of licentiousness (as an accusation) really quick. lol

That's exactly what it means.

 

[BenFTW]

That's exactly what it means.

Right, and when we look at Romans 5:13, that when there is no law sin is not imputed, does that mean that not only did Christ take away our sin, pay its penalty, and then impute His righteousness to us, but God also set us free from the Law, having established it, and by placing us under a new covenant made it so sin could not be imputed to us? Its so elaborate, everything the Lord did to keep us, to reconcile us.

 

[BenFTW]

Its funny how certain truths hit you harder at times. Sometimes it's like I know something, but then when I read it again its like, "WOW, thats powerful!" lol Oh yes we are forgiven, but what? You mean to say Jesus is interceding on my behalf forever!? Things like that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Right, and when we look at Romans 5:13, that when there is no law sin is not imputed, does that mean that not only did Christ take away our sin, pay its penalty, and then impute His righteousness to us, but God also set us free from the Law, having established it, and by placing us under a new covenant made it so sin could not be imputed to us? Its so elaborate, everything the Lord did to keep us, to reconcile us.

Freed from the law, but made a slave to Christ. No debt to the law, but made debtors to Christ. Whatever he says, we do. We answer to him, not the law.

I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. John 12:48-49​

 

[Grandpa]

So your belief is in a God that did not always exist?

Then where did God come from? nothing? No offense but if God came from nothing, then what difference would it matter how eternal is define because nothing can not create anything.

But eternal does not mean immortal any more that mortal mean everlasting.

You can add 0 to 0, divide 0 from 0, substract 0 from 0, or multiply 0 by 0 and the only result is nothing.

Sorry but you define eternal by any doctrine you desire but unfortunately just because one believes 0 plus 0 equals one only tells me that they don't know it equals two.

In the scriptures the eternal and everlasting are demonstrated in the Torah, with the passage of Deuteronomy 33:27
The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: Deut 33:27

In the dictionary, you can find two different definitions of eternal, the one cited is Eternal dictionary definition | eternal defined

• The definition of an eternal is someone or something without a beginning or an end.
  An example of an eternal being is God.
  

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So the two immutable things not only show me, but tell me that there is no reason to say anything more than, you might be right.

So you are not atheist but agnostic.

An atheists problem is pride, essentially. You don't have that. At least not in respect to what you can know and what you might know.

An agnostics problem is lack of knowledge. Not book knowledge. Experiential knowledge. Actual Wisdom that comes from God.

One person cannot give this to another. All we can do is kind of try to help. A lot of times people try to help but they are no help at all.

God is and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. This is essential. If you want to know for sure you have to really actually try to find Him.

 

[Zmouth]

We answer to him, not the law.

Open question to any who hold this belief:

When you say you answer to him and not the law, do you mean any doctrine in general or the law of truth specifically?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Open question to any who hold this belief:

When you say you answer to him and not the law, do you mean any doctrine in general or the law of truth specifically?

His doctrine and his voice which is truth.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Something about Adam's sin made him a figure of him that was to come...Jesus Christ. Adam knew what he was doing. He was not deceived. As a type of Christ that was to come, Adam became sin by sinning to be with his bride. What Adam could not do is rescue his bride from her sin. The last Adam accomplished what the first Adam could not accomplish. Romans 4, 1 Corinthians 15.

The Torah teaches us that if Adam did not eat of the fruit he could have cancelled what his wife did.

 

[Zmouth]

So you are not atheist but agnostic.

Close, American. But a Gnostic, nah. A Deist by unction. So let me guess, you must be aTheist?

An atheists problem is pride, essentially. You don't have that. At least not in respect to what you can know and what you might know.

An agnostics problem is lack of knowledge. Not book knowledge. Experiential knowledge. Actual Wisdom that comes from God.

One person cannot give this to another. All we can do is kind of try to help. A lot of times people try to help but they are no help at all.

Not really sure what the jest of what was written, but who told you that one person can not give another person wisdom?

Since it is written that wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom, and in all thy gettings get understanding. Then understanding that you see I have a problem with experiential knowledge, since actual knowledge comes from God then help understand how you didn't know that meaning of the term eternal?

I'll you the truth, because you think your wisdom is superior to the principles of God, so you got wisdom and no faith to hear wisdom is the principle so get the principle understanding that faith comes by hearing and not by seeing principal.

God is and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. This is essential. If you want to know for sure you have to really actually try to find Him.

So what was your reward for seeking the invisible God? Wisdom?

But I wouldn't argue with the principle that if a person doesn't believe it is possible he is, why would they believe "I will come to you" wasn't just some auditory hallucination? But I wasn't saved by ear, I was saved by his hand, which I am sure you heard can save, because it is connected to his everlasting arm.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Open question to any who hold this belief:

When you say you answer to him and not the law, do you mean any doctrine in general or the law of truth specifically?

The law of the Spirit in me.

 

[garee]

Romans5:13-15 King James Version (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. ​

The similitude of Adam's transgression is in Adam all die not maybe some did not sin. It is not how he sinned comparedto others... all have sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of the Lord. But was used to represent in Adam all die (every human born) and in Christ the new Adam, all of those born again are made alive​

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

Adam was created walking in fellowship with God. His soul died.​

The last Adam (Christ) restored the soul to as many as the father gave the son ​

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.​

The comparisons or similitude are between two differentbeginning. Not did Eve sinned first or are some without sin.​

I think the teaching is more to rule out universalism​

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