Mortal and Venial sins

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
You're very different from me.

I think God sees a big difference between the two cases. Physical adultery doesn't happen in a split second and checking out a sexually attractive person does.
Jesus says different

Matt 5: [FONT=&quot]27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#62
Jesus says different

Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’;28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
There you hit the nail on the head ! The concept of mortal an venial sin is from man’s perspective. As our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ pointed out God has higher standards.
That is what it’s all about brother. Realizing this is so fundamental to our growth in Christ.
Blessings
Bill
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
There you hit the nail on the head ! The concept of mortal an venial sin is from man’s perspective. As our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ pointed out God has higher standards.
That is what it’s all about brother. Realizing this is so fundamental to our growth in Christ.
Blessings
Bill
amen, gods standard is so far above ours. The good book says no one can live up to that standard, realizing this brongs us to our knees and we find true rest, and not the pseudo rest religion wants us to find
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#64
Jesus says different

Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’;28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Remember that Jesus' ministry on earth was to the Jews and He was expounding the law of Moses. The Pharisees thought that they could be saved by keeping the Law and Jesus was showing them that it was impossible (everyone who looks at a woman ...).


We are now under the New Covenant and we are not saved by keeping the Law. We can't commit adultery, however, because 1 COR 6:9 states:

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,


If I look at a woman with lust, but resist the temptation, am I an adulterer?
 
Aug 2, 2013
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#65
So what are the sins that if someone committed you would question whether they were saved in the first place?
If they practiced any of the sins on Paul's so-called sin lists, especially if they continued after they were confronted with the sin (Matthew 18:15-17; Galatians 6:1)

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
Gal 5:19-21
Col 3:5, 6
1 Timothy 1:9-10
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
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#66
To take the life of another is one. Abortion is taking the life of another. And adultery is also awful. Anyone who does these things, can not love God so I would question their claims to salvation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
6,526
113
#67
Even people, beloved people, in the Old Testament killed, murdered, yet they were no accounted for their guilt, so where are you getting yiour information? Yes to kill is a sin, but there is no such thing as cardinal and venial sins.

YIou break the least of the laws, you have broken all of the law........breaking the law is SIN.......Grace and mercy resolve this for all who repent and come to Jesus Christ.


To take the life of another is one. Abortion is taking the life of another. And adultery is also awful. Anyone who does these things, can not love God so I would question their claims to salvation.
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
18
#68
Even people, beloved people, in the Old Testament killed, murdered, yet they were no accounted for their guilt, so where are you getting yiour information? Yes to kill is a sin, but there is no such thing as cardinal and venial sins.

YIou break the least of the laws, you have broken all of the law........breaking the law is SIN.......Grace and mercy resolve this for all who repent and come to Jesus Christ.
"Matt.19:18---Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery---"
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
6,526
113
#69
He is teaching us t behave, but this does not say someone who has killed in the past is not to be forgiven by Him.....

We who believe Jesus do not kil, we obey Him in every way possible, but do not say braking a commandment is automatically going to hell, because it is not.

King David murdered Uriah after committing adultery with his wife...........now tht is a double whammy, yet he was and is beloved by God, though he was not allowed to build the first Temple because he had "blood-guilt," and this had occurred in obeying God, go figure. God's ways are not our ways. His mercy and grace are fresh every mining.......If you believe what you have said about killing being somehow worse than anting other, you are condemning yourself for your past sins for you are automatically judging others, and this should not be.

The commandments are to be obeyed but should you break one, and you are truly repentant you are forgiving becaue you love Jesus Chris.

If you love Jesus, do not fear the law, but by all means obey Him....always. You are on the right Way, you love Him.

"Matt.19:---Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery---"
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
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#70
Remember that Jesus' ministry on earth was to the Jews and He was expounding the law of Moses. The Pharisees thought that they could be saved by keeping the Law and Jesus was showing them that it was impossible (everyone who looks at a woman ...).


We are now under the New Covenant and we are not saved by keeping the Law. We can't commit adultery, however, because 1 COR 6:9 states:

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,


If I look at a woman with lust, but resist the temptation, am I an adulterer?
Firstly I would say that I agree that Jesus ministry was to the Jews.
With regards to the law of Moses, I do not know what you understand to be the law of Moses.

Secondly I would say do not be deceived because we can commit adultery along with the rest of the stuff that Paul said that those who do will not inherit the kingdom of God, like being greedy, although the NKJV uses the word covetous.

Given our concourse on this I have given some thought and some research concerning this.

The word lust in Matthew 5:28

Definition: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.

With regards to adultery

Definition: I commit adultery (of a man with a married woman, but also of a married man).
From my understanding this does seem to indicate the physical act.

Although if memory serves me it doesn't always relate to physical act.
It can be something different.
We can commit spiritual adultery.

I'm think Israel did this.

I can't think how to put that at this moment.

So my thoughts are (and open to correction)

If lust means to covet that basically means to want, to set ones heart upon something that is not theirs.

Exodus 20:17
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

We also see

Exodus 20:14
14 “You shall not commit adultery.

Yet the word adultery not only means the physical act but also means to apostasize and idolatrous worship.

So to me Jesus is not dealing with physical but the heart, what is in the heart.
Even if you do not do it yet covet it and continue to do say it's the same as doing so.

So Paul says the covetous will not inherit the kingdom of God.
They may not necessarily follow it through, the physical act, so does it mean the spiritual act, what's in the heart maybe.

And it's the heart that God looks at.

So I would say that if you/we clock a thought but reject it straight away then we have not committed adultery.
However we need to be very careful.
To think that its ok to do so and continue to do so is to covet.
If it so it's in our hearts and what is in the heart will manifest, not necessarily physically with someone else.

We can't hide behind its ok I only thought about this woman one, this one once.
It can lead us further, further into the world of porn.

Jesus also said

Matthew 5:21-26
Murder Begins in the Heart
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

He is taking it to a deeper level, the heart level.

People I hope I make some sense.

He is calling us beyond the physical and into the spiritual, what's in our hearts.
He wants to deal with the heart so it does not manifest in the flesh.

But if it does there is Forgiveness and healing and restoration.
If that's our hearts desire then he will work in our hearts.

Just like he did with David, who should have been put to death.

Think about his path to adultery.

2 Samuel 11:2-5


2 Then it happened one evening that David arose from his bed and walked on the roof of the king's house. And from the roof he saw a woman bathing, and the woman was very beautiful to behold. 3 So David sent and inquired about the woman. And someone said, “Is this not Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” 4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. 5 And the woman conceived; so she sent and told David, and said, “I am with child.”

We know the rest of the story.

As said open to correction.

Bill
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
Remember that Jesus' ministry on earth was to the Jews and He was expounding the law of Moses. The Pharisees thought that they could be saved by keeping the Law and Jesus was showing them that it was impossible (everyone who looks at a woman ...).


We are now under the New Covenant and we are not saved by keeping the Law. We can't commit adultery, however, because 1 COR 6:9 states:

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,


If I look at a woman with lust, but resist the temptation, am I an adulterer?
according to jesus yes

the pharisee though they were ok, because they did not sleep with anyone, but they could lust all they want, jesus was showing them how unrighteous they really were hey houht they were ok because they obeyed the letterm jesus showed them they were not ok.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
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#72
Firstly I would say that I agree that Jesus ministry was to the Jews.

With regards to the law of Moses, I do not know what you understand to be the law of Moses.
............................
The word lust in Matthew 5:28

Definition: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.
By "Law of Moses" I mean the 613 mitzvot.

I agree that if a Christian lusts after someone for a considerable amount of time they are actually committing adultery, and it is even worst if they attempt a sexual encounter -- even if it fails the person will be guilty just the same.

I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
By "Law of Moses" I mean the 613 mitzvot.

I agree that if a Christian lusts after someone for a considerable amount of time they are actually committing adultery, and it is even worst if they attempt a sexual encounter -- even if it fails the person will be guilty just the same.

I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


for all have sinned

if sin keeps us out of heaven, no one is saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
I hope you are wrong, otherwise I'm done for!
your only done for if you deny the cross.

jesus came to save you like he did all nations.

Recieve him and he will become your abba father
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
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#76
your only done for if you deny the cross.

jesus came to save you like he did all nations.

Recieve him and he will become your abba father
So, you mean people who accept Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross can commit adultery and yet be saved?
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
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#77
Any one that is a slave to sin and call themselves a Christian is fooling themselves. When people commit sin and enjoy the sin they commit,they are weak.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#78
So, you mean people who accept Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross can commit adultery and yet be saved?
They can be saved but that doesn't mean they will go unpunished.

They may lose their spouse, respect of the community, or other earthly consequences for their sins.

However if they are saved: have faith Jesus as their Savior, God will lead them to repentance and pull them like iron from the fire.

There is a difference between earthly punishment which is temporary and eternal damnation
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
Any one that is a slave to sin and call themselves a Christian is fooling themselves. When people commit sin and enjoy the sin they commit,they are weak.
lol, no one is a slave to sin, yet no one is sinless
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
So, you mean people who accept Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross can commit adultery and yet be saved?
Are you sinless? I think you said no, so what makes you think you deserve salvation more than they do?

oh and as for adulterers.

king david. Adultery and murder. Man after gids own heart,
abraham, chosen of god, adultery (his sin is still felt in the middle east) yet father of many nations.

stop looking at one sin, and remember what james said, if you break one command, hour guilty if all, your just as guilty as that adulterer every time you sin, you better praise god he died for you, and stop trying to judge others.