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Thread: Mortal and Venial sins

  1. #101
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    Which do you think is the bigger issue:

    The lack of the Holy Spirit to convict and guide someone?

    Or the act of adultery?
    The act of adultery is a bigger issue because even unbelievers know it is wrong. Having the Holy Spirit and then committing adultery is even worst because the person was once enlightened.

    Well, the thread is about big sins x small sins. In post #72 I said:

    I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing (physical) adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


    What is your opinion about it? Do you think they weigh the same?

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    The act of adultery is a bigger issue because even unbelievers know it is wrong. Having the Holy Spirit and then committing adultery is even worst because the person was once enlightened.

    Well, the thread is about big sins x small sins. In post #72 I said:

    I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing (physical) adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


    What is your opinion about it? Do you think they weigh the same?
    Jesus said they do, and james agrees, why do you ignore them, why would you excuse your sin while condemning ohers?
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  3. #103
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Jesus said they do, and james agrees, why do you ignore them, why would you excuse your sin while condemning ohers?
    I've already said that Jesus was expounding the law of Moses to the Jews. The Lord also said they should sell all they had and give alms. Do you obey this commandment?

    In 2:10, James is making an analogy with the law of Moses to show that if we show favoritism we don't really love all brothers and sisters, i.e., if we don't love some of them it is like not loving any of them. Likewise he says that killing and committing adultery weigh the same, but he doesn't say that all sins are equal.

    Now, consider what Paul wrote:

    1 Corinthians 6:16 New International Version (NIV)

    16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

    If a Christian goes to bed with another woman he becomes one flesh with her. See how terrible it is to commit physical adultery in contrast to just checking out?

    Last edited by Marcelo; 5 Days Ago at 12:00 PM.

  4. #104
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    I've already said that Jesus was expounding the law of Moses to the Jews. The Lord also said they should sell all they had and give alms. Do you obey this commandment?


    he still said it was a sin,

    i never claimed to be sinless, i am guilty, and apart from gracr would be condemnd, as are all people, including you


    In 2:10, James is making an analogy with the law of Moses to show that if we show favoritism we don't really love all brothers and sisters, i.e., if we don't love some of them it is like not loving any of them. Likewise he says that killing and committing adultery weigh the same, but he doesn't say that all sins are equal.

    Now, consider what Paul wrote:
    1 Corinthians 6:16 New International Version (NIV)

    16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

    If a Christian goes to bed with another woman he becomes one flesh with her. See how terrible it is to commit physical adultery in contrast to just checking out?

    lol a sin is a sin is a sin man listen to yourself your excusing your sin while judging others, do you hink god is going to let you in because you only lusted?

    Scripture says if we know to do right and do not do it. It is sin

    scripture says eating a fruit from one tree caused the fall off mankind, and was the core of all evil in the world,

    Adultry is a sin, murder is a sin, lieing is a sin, lusting after a woman is a sin,

    what does he bible say? He penalty of sin is death, it does not differentiate which sins causes death and which do not, because all sin causes death
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  5. #105
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    lol a sin is a sin is a sin man listen to yourself your excusing your sin while judging others, do you hink god is going to let you in because you only lusted?
    You say I'm excusing my sin while judging others and apparently you feel my attitude is more sinful than the sins I've been talking about. Do you agree now that sins are not all equal?

  6. #106
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    You say I'm excusing my sin while judging others and apparently you feel my attitude is more sinful than the sins I've been talking about. Do you agree now that sins are not all equal?

    In society yes, the damage some sins does to others, yes murder does more harm the a white lie, so it has a stiffer penalty

    But to god as far as falling short of his glory and earning condemnation, no, all sins are equal as james said, break one your guilty of all.

    to god, the penalty of sin (all sin)is death,

    a person who commits adultry has a death penatly verdict against him
    a person who lists after a woman has a death penalty verdict against them
    a person who knows to do right but does not do it, has a death peanlty against them
    a person who says he smallest white lie any man or woman ever said has a death penatly verdict against them

    if these vericts are not redeems, the the person who commited any of these sins will go to hell .

    To others, the gift of god is eternal life through christ.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    The act of adultery is a bigger issue because even unbelievers know it is wrong. Having the Holy Spirit and then committing adultery is even worst because the person was once enlightened.

    Well, the thread is about big sins x small sins. In post #72 I said:

    I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing (physical) adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


    What is your opinion about it? Do you think they weigh the same?
    I think we disagree for I believe the lack of the Holy Spirit reveals a lack of God in a person's life and that is a bigger issue.

    I stated before that the Bible mention desire which causes sinto be conceived. I see this as the embryo state of sin, the next stage of sin is agreeing to doing the act of sin in your heart, then comes actually doing it. Lastly the sin into death is being confronted and denying its a sin at all.

    Our legal system shows different degrees of murder: 1st degree has motive and premediation. Manslaughter is an accident: no motive no preplannning. Both are still murder and a sin but the punishment is different,

    I agree to the concept of mortal and venial sins...what I don't agree with is the Catholic "remedy" to washing people clean of sins via saying Hail Mary's or other acts of penance or the buying of pardons.

    The only way to be cleanse of sins is by the blood of the Lamb and learning to walk with the Holy spirit.
    Don't take my word for it. Search Scriptures for yourself!

    Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    According to Christian tradition the seven deadly sins are: envy, gluttony, greed or avarice, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath.

    *****

    7 sins deadly to the soul of believers...do you know the cure to each?

  9. #109
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    In society yes, the damage some sins does to others, yes murder does more harm the a white lie, so it has a stiffer penalty

    But to god as far as falling short of his glory and earning condemnation, no, all sins are equal as james said, break one your guilty of all.

    to god, the penalty of sin (all sin)is death,
    I agree with you that all sins lead to eternal damnation and this is the reason why we need Christ, but apart from damage in society big sins require bigger repentance. If I look at a woman with lust for a few seconds the fear of God will drive me to ask for forgiveness and I'm sure He will forgive me very soon. But if I have an affair with another woman for an year or so this is a horse of another color.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    I agree with you that all sins lead to eternal damnation and this is the reason why we need Christ, but apart from damage in society big sins require bigger repentance. If I look at a woman with lust for a few seconds the fear of God will drive me to ask for forgiveness and I'm sure He will forgive me very soon. But if I have an affair with another woman for an year or so this is a horse of another color.

    If sin causes loss of salvation, then both of those sins will require one the that commited either of this sins the need to be resaved.

    being condemned is being condemned, no matter what sin condemned you.

    Think of it this way, 2 men are on death row. One was for the rape and murder of one young woman, (an offense punishable by death) the other man was there because he raped and mudered many woman of all ages.

    when they get in the electric chair and the executioner closes the switch, they both sufferd the same fate,

    in the same way, when you stand in front of god on judgment day,and your only crime is you lusted a woman one time, (a sin punishable by death) and the man next to you commited adultry many times over with many women, you both suffered the same fate.

    In gods eyes, sin is sin, it is either redeemed by the cross, or judgment will be carried out, he does not grade on a curve like many churches want to proclaim, one sin is all it takes, no matter how small that sin, dead is dead.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  11. #111
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Ok, all sins are equal, but some sins are more equal than others because Paul wrote:

    Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    If all sins were equal Paul would have written: "sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven".

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    Ok, all sins are equal, but some sins are more equal than others because Paul wrote:

    Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    If all sins were equal Paul would have written: "sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven".
    Actually Paul prefaces this list with this remark, which is general and covers all sins and all unrighteousness:

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? (1 Cor 6:9)

  13. #113
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Actually Paul prefaces this list with this remark, which is general and covers all sins and all unrighteousness:

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? (1 Cor 6:9)
    And a person who tells a white lie (just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone else) is regarded as unrighteous?

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Jesus spoke suggestions not just "orders",like when Jesus told a young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor,he didn't say he "had to" just that he lacked doing so,and that if he did so he would have "treasure in heaven".
    This young man had great possessions. Our LORD didn't tell him to give them away. He was given a choice to serve him or mammon. It's written that no one can serve both. The treasure in heaven that our LORD offered him was to be with him in heaven. He chose mammon. After the young man walked away, our LORD said:
    "Matt. 20:23 ---Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
    Why? Idolatry. We worship our "stuff" more than we worship our God.

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    By "Law of Moses" I mean the 613 mitzvot.

    I agree that if a Christian lusts after someone for a considerable amount of time they are actually committing adultery, and it is even worst if they attempt a sexual encounter -- even if it fails the person will be guilty just the same.

    I don't think, however, that lusting after someone for a few seconds or minutes is the same as committing adultery. If it were, nobody would be saved!


    A few seconds of lust can come to the believer as a fiery dart from a demon and/or Satan. Where it becomes a sin is when we keep and harbor it. Even then, if you come to your senses then reject it we are acting according to the Spirit. I think this is what is expected of us.



    JaumeJ, Marcelo and oldethennew like this.
    Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
    to them who are the called according to His purpose.”

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    A few seconds of lust can come to the believer as a fiery dart from a demon and/or Satan. Where it becomes a sin is when we keep and harbor it. Even then, if you come to your senses then reject it we are acting according to the Spirit. I think this is what is expected of us.



    Amen A friend once said; if you grin you're in . Its our own hearts that must be renewed as we pray without ceasing.

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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    And a person who tells a white lie (just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone else) is regarded as unrighteous?
    It would be better not to speak than to lie.

    Which is more important: not hurting feelings or speaking the truth(or remaining silent) in love?

    Lies have a way of being revealed and if we justify our sins as "little white lies" it makes it easier and easier to keep lying.

    The Good news is that the Blood of the Lamb washes away all unrighteousness.
    Last edited by Ariel82; 4 Days Ago at 07:53 AM.

  18. #118
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    It would be better not to speak than to lie.

    Which is more important: not hurting feelings or speaking the truth(or remaining silent) in love?

    Lies have a way of being revealed and if we justify our sins as "little white lies" it makes it easier and easier to keep lying.

    The Good news is that the Blood of the Lamb washes away all unrighteousness.
    If all sins are alike, why did Paul say we should not associate with sexually immoral people who call themselves Christians?

    We can associate with Christians who sin (because nobody is absolutely free from sin), but we can't associate with sexually immoral "Christians".

    1 Corinthians 5:9-11 reads, "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat."

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    Senior Member Deade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    If all sins are alike, why did Paul say we should not associate with sexually immoral people who call themselves Christians?

    We can associate with Christians who sin (because nobody is absolutely free from sin), but we can't associate with sexually immoral "Christians".

    1 Corinthians 5:9-11 reads, "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat."
    What Bible version is this Marcelo

    Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
    to them who are the called according to His purpose.”

  20. #120
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mortal and Venial sins

    I don't really remember where I copied it from, but here is the NIV:

    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.



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