Faith and Deeds

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Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
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We are saved by grace through faith before deeds or works, apart from deeds and works, unto deeds and works.
So, repentance & fruits of repentance is no longer deeds or works?

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, [SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
We are saved by grace through faith before deeds or works, apart from deeds and works, unto deeds and works.
_______________

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


________________

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

_______________

romans 3

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
____________
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith


romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


_________

after we are born again and
given a new heart and a quickened heart though a saving faith what follows is God working in you

this will manifest as "deeds" and "works"
also as new desires for righteousness

and a new hate for the pleasures of your fleshly lusts

God chastens His children
and works thier trials
failures
and even victories through walking the the spirit for good in the long run


this is more than just deeds or works

this is spiritual fruit
a new man/woman of an incorruptible seed


though we may not be perfect while still in this sinful flesh

there will be fruit in His children

some 30
some 60
some 100

love and evidential faith is the point being made in the verses the OP posted


because works played no part in the justification of abraham

it was faith apart from works


but a genuine faith is followed by works

Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

________

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
So, repentance & fruits of repentance is no longer deeds or works?

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, [SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
we repent from unbelief

then He continues to work a greater repentance in us


3340. metanoeó ►
Strong's Concordance
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.



Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


romans 12
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.



but your question raises some red flags

like youre trying to say a man is saved by deeds and not the grace of God
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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we repent from unbelief

then He continues to work a greater repentance in us

3340. metanoeó ►
Strong's Concordance
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

romans 12
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

but your question raises some red flags

like youre trying to say a man is saved by deeds and not the grace of God
Yes, his question does raise some red flags if he is labeling repentance as just another work like other works by confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind.

Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin" and I've heard those who teach sinless perfection define it as - "completely stop sinning," yet I've heard other people reverse the scriptural order of repentance/faith by placing repentance "after" faith and defining repentance as "self moral reformation" and turn salvation into a 4 step program of 1. believe 2. repent 3. confess 4. get water baptized which if false. In regards to repentance, to the contrary we find:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now the Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people do confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching that man is saved by deeds/salvation by works.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Don't you think people get tired of you constantly steering their posts to say "faith is works"?
All I hear is you complaining.

Nobody on this thread has said that except maybe once, & you're riding it into the ground like a dead horse.

Give it a rest will ya?
Are you talking about this post below?

Jesus said believing is work. I believe him. In fact, I know it from experience. Lots of hard work. But everyone will reap as they sow.
Believing is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption).

Repenting is not a work that merits our salvation either. We must first repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel by choosing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).

Through repentance/faith (not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which are the fruit of repentance/faith and are produced "out of" faith), Christ is still the OBJECT of our complete trust in receiving salvation.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
22
18
we repent from unbelief

then He continues to work a greater repentance in us


3340. metanoeó ►
Strong's Concordance
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.
Isn't it amazing when a concordance/dictionary/commentary agrees with you guys, you can't wait to bring it out & flash it for all to see, but when somebody uses multiple commentaries to prove against you, y'all can't wait to shoot it all down & tell us they're all incorrect.

Now my complete definition for metanoeo:

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3341: μετάνοια

μετάνοια, μετανοίας, (μετανοέω), a change of mind: as it appears in one who repents of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done, Hebrews 12:17 on which see εὑρίσκω, 3 ((Thucydides 3, 36, 3); Polybius 4, 66, 7; Plutarch, Peric c. 10; mor., p. 26 a.; τῆςἀδελφοκτονιας μετάνοια, Josephus, Antiquities 13, 11, 3); especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment, the tokens and effects of which are good deeds
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

but your question raises some red flags

like youre trying to say a man is saved by deeds and not the grace of God
No, more like you're trying to accuse me of something I didn't do, nor have ever done.

Which I expected you would do, because that's all you & your OSAS friends do.

Go ahead & accuse some more, I don't think all the readers know you well enough yet.

I want them to find out who you really are.:)
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
22
18
Originally Posted by Lewiz
Don't you think people get tired of you constantly steering their posts to say "faith is works"?

All I hear is you complaining.
Originally Posted by Lewiz
Nobody on this thread has said that except maybe once, & you're riding it into the ground like a dead horse.

Give it a rest will ya?

Are you talking about this post below?

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead
Jesus said believing is work. I believe him. In fact, I know it from experience. Lots of hard work. But everyone will reap as they sow.

Believing is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption).

Repenting is not a work that merits our salvation either. We must first repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel by choosing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).

Through repentance/faith (not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which are the fruit of repentance/faith and are produced "out of" faith), Christ is still the OBJECT of our complete trust in receiving salvation.
Once is once, and you accuse others of doing what's been done once.
Complaining?!? You betcha it's complaining!

People get sick & tired of you blaming others for what somebody else said, putting all of us in your blame box & falsely labeling us.
 
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Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit. This is the only Faith God will recognize. Anything and everything that is not of the Spirit is "dead faith." Lifeless Faith is profitless (rotten fruit) i.e., work of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23) . James 2:14-18
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit. This is the only Faith God will recognize. Anything and everything that is not of the Spirit is "dead faith." Lifeless Faith is profitless (rotten fruit) i.e., work of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23) . James 2:14-18
Which means that all their work shall be burnt up, yet they shall be saved yet so as by fire. Faith without works is dead, means that it is useless. The question, however, is what is faith without works useless for? Rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit. This is the only Faith God will recognize. Anything and everything that is not of the Spirit is "dead faith." Lifeless Faith is profitless (rotten fruit) i.e., work of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23) . James 2:14-18
There are millions upon millions of sincere people in this world. The scripture says (Acts 10) the centurion, Cornelius, was a devout man (but unsaved!), and one who feared God with all his house (but unsaved!), which gave much alms to the people (but unsaved!), and prayed to God always (but unsaved!) All of these things were wonderful, and certainly noticed by the Lord; but they did not save the man, even as they do not save anyone now; being religious does not constitute Salvation; there must be an acceptance of Christ and His Finished Work; if one is to be saved [Jn. 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10,13]). The scripture further says that Cornelius had a vision (but unsaved!), an Angel of God came to him (but unsaved!), his prayers and alms came up for a memorial before God (but unsaved!), he fasted (but unsaved!).

The Lord sent the Apostle Peter to save him and his household (neighbors). Being sincere does not make a person saved.
 
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Which means that all their work shall be burnt up, yet they shall be saved yet so as by fire. Faith without works is dead, means that it is useless. The question, however, is what is faith without works useless for? Rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
What you have stated applies to the story of Martha and Mary...where at the Judgement seat of Christ, it will not be a Judgement for Believers sins, for that was handled at Calvary. It will pertain only to the person's service for the Lord, and the manner in which it was conducted and carried out.

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’[SUP][a][/SUP] feet and heard His word. [SUP]40 [/SUP]But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]And Jesus[SUP][b][/SUP] answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. [SUP]42 [/SUP]But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her.”

Martha had a physical relationship with Christ, in serving Him, while Mary had a Spiritual relationship by hearing and worshiping Him. Martha was doing a good thing, but it was not the best thing. We learn that one can be very much involved in the Work of the Lord, and little involved in Worship of the Lord. However, the Lord is much more concerned about the Worker than the Work. If the Worker is right, the Work will be right as well! Luke 10:38-42
 
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The phrase, "But one thing is needful," proclaims to us the Mind of God, and tells us exactly where all victory is.

What is that "one thing?"

It is that which Mary was doing, sitting at the feet of Jesus, hearing Him speak, which can only be done presently by the method of prayer, study of his Word, and ardently seeking His Face. But tragically, much if not most of the Church world specializes in, and makes other things priority, which are not "needful." Notice He did not say two, four, or ten, but only "one!" Therefore, He makes it very easy for the Christian to understand, and leaves no excuse for us failing in this area.

The phrase, "And Mary has Chosen that good part," means that this is a "choice," a choice, incidentally, which every Believer must make. Regrettably, most choose that which Martha chose, hence the spiritual leanness.

The phrase, "Which shall not be taken away from her," proclaims that if the Believer will choose this "good part," The Holy Spirit will guard this sacred choice. This is the very place to which the Holy Spirit desires to bring the Child of God. This is the "Holyof Holies!" These are the people who touch the world.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Which means that all their work shall be burnt up, yet they shall be saved yet so as by fire. Faith without works is dead, means that it is useless. The question, however, is what is faith without works useless for? Rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The context of that passage is the workers laboring in the church and what reward they will or will not get for that labor. It's not a passage about a believers faith and whether it produces works of obedience or not.


6"I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building."-1 Corinthians 3:6-9
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit.
Not always.

Jesus spoke of the 3rd type of soil where the word of God gets choked out by the cares and concerns and loves of this world:


14“The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity."-Luke 8:14


22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful."-Matthew 13:22
 
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Not always.

Jesus spoke of the 3rd type of soil where the word of God gets choked out by the cares and concerns and loves of this world:


14“The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity."-Luke 8:14


22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful."-Matthew 13:22
Allow me to rephrase my statement. Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit.
 
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When we say faith and deeds go together or you can see someones faith through their deeds were NOT implying that solely on the things someone does is he saved.

What we ARE saying is that a person that has genuine faith will automatically do good deeds. Faith produces good fruit. fruit is works. Haven't you heard you can tell a good tree by its fruit.
A tree that does not produce good fruits, is for the fire.

MATTHEW 7:17
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
 
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When we say faith and deeds go together or you can see someones faith through their deeds were NOT implying that solely on the things someone does is he saved.

What we ARE saying is that a person that has genuine faith will automatically do good deeds. Faith produces good fruit. fruit is works. Haven't you heard you can tell a good tree by its fruit.
A tree that does not produce good fruits, is for the fire.

MATTHEW 7:17
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" had good in it also (see post #250 - Martha & Mary). That is why the Believer must not only repent and ask for forgiveness in the bad, but also for the good. Paul said the good that he was doing deceived him (Romans 7:11). The truth we learn from "The Beatitudes" is our moral and spiritual poverty. That there is no good and hope in non of us. We are unable to serve God in our on strength, own ability, and own power. With out Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:5). But today, I confess and place my Faith and maintain it exclusively in Your beloved Son Jesus in whom You are well pleased, so that His life would be lived through me, and I received all the benefits (Psalm 103) of the resurrection life by understand we have been planted together in the likeness of His death (Gal. 2:20-21).
 
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The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" had good in it also (see post #250 - Martha & Mary). That is why the Believer must not only repent and ask for forgiveness in the bad, but also for the good. Paul said the good that he was doing deceived him (Romans 7:11). The truth we learn from "The Beatitudes" is our moral and spiritual poverty. That there is no good and hope in non of us. We are unable to serve God in our on strength, own ability, and own power. With out Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:5). But today, I confess and place my Faith and maintain it exclusively in Your beloved Son Jesus in whom You are well pleased, so that His life would be lived through me, and I received all the benefits (Psalm 103) of the resurrection life by understand we have been planted together in the likeness of His death (Gal. 2:20-21).
Meant to say, but also in the good.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Isn't it amazing when a concordance/dictionary/commentary agrees with you guys, you can't wait to bring it out & flash it for all to see, but when somebody uses multiple commentaries to prove against you, y'all can't wait to shoot it all down & tell us they're all incorrect.
Which commentaries proved against us in regards to metanoeo?

Now my complete definition for metanoeo:
"Complete" definition? So you are suggesting that the Strong's definition of metanoeo is "incomplete?" Why do you believe that your definition is complete, but not the Strong's? Because "good deeds" were mentioned? *Yet good deeds were mentioned as the tokens and effect of repentance.

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3341: μετάνοια

μετάνοια, μετανοίας, (μετανοέω), a change of mind: as it appears in one who repents of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done, Hebrews 12:17 on which see εὑρίσκω, 3 ((Thucydides 3, 36, 3); Polybius 4, 66, 7; Plutarch, Peric c. 10; mor., p. 26 a.; τῆςἀδελφοκτονιας μετάνοια, Josephus, Antiquities 13, 11, 3); especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment, the tokens and effects of which are good deeds
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I don't see a problem with Thayer's definition of meanoeo. When one repents, there is godly sorrow involved (2 Corinthians 7:10) by which we abhor our errors and misdeeds and embrace both recognition of sin and sorrow for it. Those who truly repent and believe the gospel are determined to enter upon a better course of life and why wouldn't we? We have been changed! (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Praise the Lord! :)

Now in regards to the tokens and effects of repentance being good deeds, like I previously said in post #43, "the Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions." Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Yet this is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). *Do you agree or do you believe that good deeds/works are the very essence of repentance? *Your answer to this question will determine whether or not the red flags will remain raised.

No, more like you're trying to accuse me of something I didn't do, nor have ever done.
I agreed with NoNameMcgee that your question does raise some red flags IF you are labeling repentance as just another work like other works by confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance. *That's not the same thing of accusing you of something you didn't do, nor have ever done. He though that it sounded like you were trying to say a man is saved by deeds and not the grace of God, so it's not just me who saw the red flags, but you have an opportunity to explain yourself instead of getting defensive and resorting to character assassination.

Which I expected you would do, because that's all you & your OSAS friends do.

Go ahead & accuse some more, I don't think all the readers know you well enough yet.
So now you want to play the victim and accuse me and my OSAS friends of false accusations instead of reasoning through the scriptures?
:rolleyes:

I want them to find out who you really are.:)
Who is "them" and why are you so happy about trying to discredit me to all the readers? I simply preach the gospel and expose "works based" false gospels. That's who I really am. You have only been on Christian Chat for 2 months and you are wasting no time showing who you really are.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Once is once, and you accuse others of doing what's been done once.
In the first place, it's been more than once. Onc person said "believing is work...lots of hard work" and someone else said, "Abraham's obedience was his faith. Secondly, I was simply refuting the argument that Abraham's obedience was his faith in post #60 by explaining that faith is believing and obedience which follows is works and pointed out that I've heard other works-salvationists make this same error, such as this statement from a Roman Catholic below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I too believed this false gospel above of salvation by faith "infused" with works in which works become meritorious towards receiving salvation. I also pointed out where a SDA who previously posted on Christian Chat made this erroneous statement below:

What is the other Gospel?

It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

As you can see, it's his false gospel above of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" that is a "different" gospel.

Here is yet another false gospel below that I heard from a Restorationist:

"It is works of obedience and not works of the law or works of merit that help save us."

Complaining?!? You betcha it's complaining!
And you are good at it.

People get sick & tired of you blaming others for what somebody else said, putting all of us in your blame box & falsely labeling us.
Who are these people? Again, all I hear is YOU complaining. Who am I blaming for what somebody else said? I have simply exposed statements that teach a "works based" false gospel. Now who is "all of us" that I have allegedly put in a blame box and falsely labeled?
:confused:




 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
First, you change my post into a lie(blue), then you lie about what I said.(red)

You've been
reported.:mad:
1, i did not lie, you said what they claimed, maybe you need to read what you post.

Disobedience is a sin. Continued, intentional disobedience can break the Covenant & cause the person to lose his salvation.

It's not my fault you slander & call us works-salvationists.

I didn't make you do that.

Obedience requires works.

Do you think the readers are dense & you can convince them that all NT obedience is only believing in Jesus?
so i hope you did report me so the mods can see who really lied,

2. Yes i changed your post, to correct it to the truth, you said obedience required works, thats wrong, obedience IS works. (Remember you corrected a post of mine earlier, so i guess its ok for you?