Faith and Deeds
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Martin Luther say
salvation is by faith alone, but faith that saved is never alone.
in other word, real faith Will produce fruit. Obedeance is the fruit of faith.
because you trust Him than you obey Him. If you don't believe that His teaching lead you to heaven, If you think He is a liar, why you obey Him?
salvation is by faith alone, but faith that saved is never alone.
in other word, real faith Will produce fruit. Obedeance is the fruit of faith.
because you trust Him than you obey Him. If you don't believe that His teaching lead you to heaven, If you think He is a liar, why you obey Him?
Typical long winded post from you, full of scripture twisting and propaganda. 
Your twisted implication here seems to be that only YOU have denied yourself and follow Him and His instructions perfectly and will qualify for heaven under those terms, while the rest of us will be disqualified for heaven because we follow religious traditions of man. This is the same old straw man argument that you continue to try and sell, but I'm not buying it and neither are any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.
Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:2-3 explain how Abraham became righteous. It was because he BELIEVED IN THE LORD/BELIEVED GOD and its was accounted to him for righteousness.
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Action does not change belief into faith and action does not establish faith. More works-salvation confusion! The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent" belief, as in James 2:19 or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, then you are trusting in Him as the all sufficient means of your salvation. This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (all Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.
It's your "religious traditions" sales pitch and judaizing doctrine that is very tricky and deceptive. Just because the Pharisees added their own traditions to the law does not mean born again Christians do.
Blessed is one thing and accounted as righteous is another. You continue to define faith "as" obedience/works, just as ALL works-salvationists do, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. *This is the very HEART of your ERROR!
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. *Nothing there about faith is multiple acts of obedience/works. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand! We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and acts of obedience/works which follow are the fruit.
I have noticed that works-salvationists accuse others of transgressing God's Commandments and imply they will be saved based on the merits of obeying God's Commandments and misunderstand the simple Biblical truth about Abraham (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:2-6).
I can accept it. As I have already explained numerous times, in James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
*Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
I said that Abraham was "accounted as righteous" based on his faith and not his works, as we clearly read in Romans 4:2-3.
You can criticize and condemn these people all you like, but you are no better than any of these people with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." You seem to enjoy labeling everyone else as transgressing the Commandments of God and claiming for yourself to have obeyed the Commandments of God and will qualify for heaven under those terms.
You have a serious PRIDE issue!
Difference in style from others you condemn, but same in substance. WORKS BASED FALSE GOSPEL. Learn the difference between faith and works, blessings received based on obedience and salvation through faith.
This is the same verse that works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's etc..) quote in their quest to try and prove that salvation is by works. 3 For to you and your descendants I will give all these lands and will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham. 4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed. This was many years AFTER Abraham believed in the Lord/believed God and his faith (not his works) was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:2-3).
I have no religious traditions and there is a distinction between faith and works of obedience which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith. The Bible clearly makes a distinction between faith AND works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; James 2:14 etc..). You have to make no distinction whatsoever between faith and obedience/works, not because of the Bibles teaching, but because of your perverted gospel. You are not fooling me.
Abraham believed God and it was called faith. Abraham followed God's instructions and it was called obedience/works.
He believed in God, trusted in God. The demons merely believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation and neither do works-salvationists.
Obedience is the demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith. Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not an example of faith no matter how much so called obedience that someone attempts to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on the merit of works/law keeping etc..
Another example of how works-salvationists twist the scriptures and confuse faith with obedience/works. Romans 10:16 is another example as well. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Campbellites use this verse to erroneously teach that we obey the gospel by receiving water baptism. Yet we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.
Doing works meet for repentance is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Works-salvationists confuse the fruit of repentance/faith with the essence of repentance/faith, as you have just demonstrated. Your true colors are really showing now!
This is your continued straw man argument. Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is neither works worthy of repentance or the faith of Abraham. It sounds to me like you are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
Your twisted implication here seems to be that only YOU have denied yourself and follow Him and His instructions perfectly and will qualify for heaven under those terms, while the rest of us will be disqualified for heaven because we follow religious traditions of man. This is the same old straw man argument that you continue to try and sell, but I'm not buying it and neither are any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.
Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:2-3 explain how Abraham became righteous. It was because he BELIEVED IN THE LORD/BELIEVED GOD and its was accounted to him for righteousness.
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Action does not change belief into faith and action does not establish faith. More works-salvation confusion! The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent" belief, as in James 2:19 or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, then you are trusting in Him as the all sufficient means of your salvation. This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (all Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.
It's your "religious traditions" sales pitch and judaizing doctrine that is very tricky and deceptive. Just because the Pharisees added their own traditions to the law does not mean born again Christians do.
Blessed is one thing and accounted as righteous is another. You continue to define faith "as" obedience/works, just as ALL works-salvationists do, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. *This is the very HEART of your ERROR!
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. *Nothing there about faith is multiple acts of obedience/works. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand! We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and acts of obedience/works which follow are the fruit.
I have noticed that works-salvationists accuse others of transgressing God's Commandments and imply they will be saved based on the merits of obeying God's Commandments and misunderstand the simple Biblical truth about Abraham (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:2-6).
I can accept it. As I have already explained numerous times, in James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
*Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
I said that Abraham was "accounted as righteous" based on his faith and not his works, as we clearly read in Romans 4:2-3.
You can criticize and condemn these people all you like, but you are no better than any of these people with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." You seem to enjoy labeling everyone else as transgressing the Commandments of God and claiming for yourself to have obeyed the Commandments of God and will qualify for heaven under those terms.
You have a serious PRIDE issue!
Difference in style from others you condemn, but same in substance. WORKS BASED FALSE GOSPEL. Learn the difference between faith and works, blessings received based on obedience and salvation through faith.
This is the same verse that works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's etc..) quote in their quest to try and prove that salvation is by works. 3 For to you and your descendants I will give all these lands and will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham. 4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed. This was many years AFTER Abraham believed in the Lord/believed God and his faith (not his works) was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:2-3).
I have no religious traditions and there is a distinction between faith and works of obedience which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith. The Bible clearly makes a distinction between faith AND works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; James 2:14 etc..). You have to make no distinction whatsoever between faith and obedience/works, not because of the Bibles teaching, but because of your perverted gospel. You are not fooling me.
Abraham believed God and it was called faith. Abraham followed God's instructions and it was called obedience/works.
He believed in God, trusted in God. The demons merely believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation and neither do works-salvationists.
Obedience is the demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith. Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not an example of faith no matter how much so called obedience that someone attempts to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on the merit of works/law keeping etc..
Another example of how works-salvationists twist the scriptures and confuse faith with obedience/works. Romans 10:16 is another example as well. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Campbellites use this verse to erroneously teach that we obey the gospel by receiving water baptism. Yet we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.
Doing works meet for repentance is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Works-salvationists confuse the fruit of repentance/faith with the essence of repentance/faith, as you have just demonstrated. Your true colors are really showing now!
This is your continued straw man argument. Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is neither works worthy of repentance or the faith of Abraham. It sounds to me like you are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
Can you explain the following verse?
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Works-salvationists try to argue that the Bible teaches man is saved by "these" works (good works/works of obedience/works of faith) but just not by "those" works (works of the law). Yet when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works/works of obedience/works of faith from the law (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; James 2:15-16; Matthew 22:37-40).
There's a huge difference. The faith of Christ points to Christ's own faith in His Father's will, how He was completely obedient unto death. Faith in Christ points to the individual's faith, thus, must be demonstrated through the individual's obedience.
The faith of Jesus Christ takes all the work, evidence and substance and places it upon the shoulders of Jesus Christ and the cross.
The faith of Jesus Christ takes all the work, evidence and substance and places it upon the shoulders of Jesus Christ and the cross.
The faith of Christ involves Jesus and His Father, independent of anyone else. It refers to the integrity of His walk, not ours.
How's your faith walk? How's your obedience? Just like me, you fall short don't you? You miss the mark. Our faith waivers, but Christ's faith never waivers. Amen.
The reason God wants us to trust in His Son is because His Son's faith was perfect, spotless and without blemish. That's the faith that justifies the believer.
How's your faith walk? How's your obedience? Just like me, you fall short don't you? You miss the mark. Our faith waivers, but Christ's faith never waivers. Amen.
The reason God wants us to trust in His Son is because His Son's faith was perfect, spotless and without blemish. That's the faith that justifies the believer.
Not our faith in, but our belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ is what's required.
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, butby the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, (Why? Why have we believed in Jesus Christ?) that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, (Christ's faith points to His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross) and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
A man becomes justified by placing his belief in the cross of Christ. Christ's faith justifies the believer.
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, butby the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, (Why? Why have we believed in Jesus Christ?) that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, (Christ's faith points to His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross) and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
A man becomes justified by placing his belief in the cross of Christ. Christ's faith justifies the believer.