Anne Frank In Hell

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Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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The early church was also grieving because of their friends and family members dying. They were very scared for their loved one new. Especially in times of severe persecution and martyrdom. They thought that if they died maybe they had missed the resurrection.

Paul writes this in response...


1 Thess 4:13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.

Believers having certainty is what gives us hope. It is critical that we have certainty especially about those who have died in Christ.
 
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tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I will probably get it in the neck for this but I believe people who have little or no knowledge of Christ and the Bible are judged on the basis of what light they had to live by and if they lived their lives by it.
Yeah, I got it in the neck a little too but that goes with the territory. I think that you are right on target with this. Even in the bible it says that it is possible to know about God and who He is by observation of His creation.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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It's sinful for me to believe that a believer goes to be with the Lord after they die?
By no means, believers with be with the Lord. The error is in the attempt to individually project ourselves or others into scriptures meant to address Christians in general.

Example: John 3:16 states that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. My projecting myself into the pronoun "those" does not prove that I believe. Hence many will say "Lord, Lord did we not".
 
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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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If OSAS is a scriptural certainly then how is that wrong?
Think = hopeful of

certainty = provable

OSAS teaches that we can individually know for certain that we are saved.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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John didn’t have an issue with people knowing they were believers and had eternal life...

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

 
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tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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Think = hopeful of

certainty = provable

OSAS teaches that we can individually know for certain that we are saved.
Yes, this is true but that is a good thing and not a bad thing. Why live in fear of losing your salvation when you have the blessed assured hope that your name will remain in the Book of Life?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Yeah, I got it in the neck a little too but that goes with the territory. I think that you are right on target with this. Even in the bible it says that it is possible to know about God and who He is by observation of His creation.
Sorry to not be contrary but I agree with the both of you.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Yes, this is true but that is a good thing and not a bad thing. Why live in fear of losing your salvation when you have the blessed assured hope that your name will remain in the Book of Life?
A unprovable belief in a "blessed assured hope" is no hope at all. Better to keep running the race then rest in the claims of OSAS.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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John didn’t have an issue with people knowing they were believers and had eternal life...

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

The issue is not the "know" and "have" but the you.

This is the error of OSAS.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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I was watching a documentary on the Holocaust, and they had a small segment on Anne Frank. I'm sure most of you know who she was and probably read her diary in school, as I did. I'm also sure most of you know her fate - death in a Concentration Camp about a month and a half before the end of the war.

It troubles me greatly knowing that she, and the 6 million Jewish victims of Hitler, are now in Hades.

I know doctrine. I know that we are all sinners deserving hell. I know the holiness of God demands punishment for the lost. But I can't help thinking about that poor girl, suffering in darkness, a victim of a satanically possessed mass murderer.

She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.

Maybe I'm just in a melancholy mood. Maybe I don't understand as much as I think I do.

Thoughts?

The only way into heaven, even for my people, the Jews, is Salvation thru Messiah Y-shua. No matter how bad the holocaust was if YOU, JEW, NON-JEW, DO NOT ACCEPT ONLY Y-SHUA/JESUS AS MESSIAH YOU GO TO HELL.... NOT SAVED!!!! Watch video of my people who are devoted Orthodox Jews, and well all Jews, and CRY OUT TO THE LORD FOR THEM BECAUSE WE END UP IN HELL!!!! YOU SHOULD WEEP THAT YOU NON-JEWS ARE NOT MAKING JEWS JEALOUS ENOUGH TO DESIRE MESSIAH!!!! YES EVEN NON-MESSIANIC JEWS GO TO HELL IT IS THE SAME REQUIREMENT FOR ALL OF US AND ACCORDING TO PAUL THAT SHOULD BE EVERY CHRISTIAN'S BURDEN!!!!
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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Having a strong confidence in Christ is a vital part of being able to grow in Christ.

These things are written THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW you have eternal life.....why? Because you BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD. 1 John 2:26


[SUP]12 [/SUP]He who possesses the Son has that life; he who does not possess the Son of God does not have that life.
[SUP]

13 [/SUP]I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in [SUP][a][/SUP]the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, [SUP][b][/SUP]yes, eternal life.
[SUP]

14 [/SUP]And this is the confidence (the assurance, the privilege of boldness) which we have in Him: [we are sure] that if we ask anything (make any request) according to His will (in agreement with His own plan), He listens to and hears us.
[SUP]

15 [/SUP]And if (since) we [positively] know that He listens to us in whatever we ask, we also know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that we have [granted us as our present possessions] the requests made of Him.



His Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we ARE "NOW" THE SONS OF GOD. YAAAAYYY



Not only that.,, God WANTS us to have a STRONG CONSOLATION (that is so kind and loving of Him to want that for us) Hebrews 6:18



[SUP]17 [/SUP]Accordingly God also, in His desire to show more convincingly and beyond doubt to those who were to inherit the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose and plan, intervened (mediated) with an oath.
[SUP]

18 [/SUP]This was so that, by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath] in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before [us].
[SUP]

19 [/SUP][Now] we have this [hope] as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul [it cannot slip and it cannot [SUP][a][/SUP]break down under whoever steps out upon it—a hope] that reaches [SUP][b][/SUP]farther and enters into [the very certainty of the Presence] within the veil,
[SUP]

20 [/SUP]Where Jesus has entered in for us [in advance], a Forerunner having become a High Priest forever after the order (with [SUP][c][/SUP]the rank) of Melchizedek.



This causes us to REJOICE and walk worthy of our calling. Amen!!
 
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Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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The issue is not the "know" and "have" but the you.

This is the error of OSAS.
It says that YOU.... may know... that YOU have... I actually originally italicized the you’s in that Scripture because I figured you'd say that, but the fact still stands John didn’t have any issue with people knowing they HAD eternal life. John didn’t even say you’re going to have, John past tenses it pointing to the moment they believed. He’s so cool and eager for them to know they have eternal life. He writes them a letter about it!

”I write these things to you so that YOU (insert readers name here) may know (confidently understand) you HAVE (currently possess) eternal life.”
 
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Deror

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2018
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Really got me thinking this thread.. And found an article on this topic, thought I'd share cos the article, especially the last few paragraphs, resonates:

Hope that's OK, to share this
Jesus bless

⚪️

Did Anne Frank go to hell?

[HR][/HR]

This was the question that first drew my attention to a little crack in the Christian worldview wall, back when I was just twelve or thirteen years old. That crack would only grow bigger and more troublesome over time, until I was finally forced to consider the possibility that maybe it represented a serious foundation issue.

Sure enough, the walls fell down, the foundation crumbled, and I was left alone and trembling in a desperate state of faith, exposed to all the elements. Now I’m busy trying to rebuild, one brick at a time.


This is also the question that readers seem most eager to talk about. I’ve received multiple emails and Facebook messages about it, with a lot of folks saying they might as well have written pages 92-93 themselves:


"After we finished the last pages of The Diary of Anne Frank in middle school, Mrs. Kelly informed the class that Anne and her sister died of typhus in a prison camp, thanks to Adolf Hitler. I was horrified, not just because of the prison camp but because everything I’d be taught as a girl told me that because Anne was Jewish, because she had not accepted Jesus Christ as her Savior, she and the rest of her family were burning in hell. I remember staring at the black-and-white picture of Anne on the cover of my paperback, privately begging God to let her out of the lake of fire. For weeks, I prayed diligently for her departed soul, even though I’d heard that only Catholics did such a thing. I was a pretty intense kid, actually…


In Sunday school, they always make hell out to be a place for people like Hitler, not a place for his victims. But if my Sunday school teachers and college professors were right, then hell will be populated not only by people like Hitler and Stalin, Hussein and Milosevic but by the people they persecuted. If only born-again Christians go to heaven, the piles of suitcases and bags of human hair displayed at the Holocaust Museum represents thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children suffering eternal agony at the hands of an angry God. If salvation is available only to Christians, then the gospel isn’t good news at all. For most of the human race, it is terrible news."



I can’t tell you how encouraging it has been to learn that I’m not the only one asking these kinds of questions and not the only one deeply troubled by them.

It’s hard to believe that I was once terrified to write them down because most of the Christians around me at the time said that my concern for the damned represented a weakness of faith, that I was “oversensitive,” “soft,” and “humanistic.” But your response has emboldened me to continue putting faces and names to issues that can so easily drift into abstract theological debates.

I don’t’ pretend to know exactly what happens to people when they die, but my most instinctive and visceral sense of right and wrong tells me that a good and loving God would not torture Anne Frank for eternity. Yes, I know that this raises some theological objections for certain evangelicals, and yes, I know that I could be wrong.

But I’m finally beginning to believe that the thing inside of me that compels me to ask uncomfortable questions like this one is worth listening to now and then, that maybe it’s not a weakness but a strength.


***

How do you respond to this question? Does it make you uncomfortable?

And—perhaps most importantly—how can we pose troubling questions like this in a way that strengthens rather than weakens faith?

 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
Really got me thinking this thread.. And found an article on this topic, thought I'd share cos the article, especially the last few paragraphs, resonates:

Hope that's OK, to share this
Jesus bless

⚪️

Did Anne Frank go to hell?

[HR][/HR]

This was the question that first drew my attention to a little crack in the Christian worldview wall, back when I was just twelve or thirteen years old. That crack would only grow bigger and more troublesome over time, until I was finally forced to consider the possibility that maybe it represented a serious foundation issue.

Sure enough, the walls fell down, the foundation crumbled, and I was left alone and trembling in a desperate state of faith, exposed to all the elements. Now I’m busy trying to rebuild, one brick at a time.


This is also the question that readers seem most eager to talk about. I’ve received multiple emails and Facebook messages about it, with a lot of folks saying they might as well have written pages 92-93 themselves:


"After we finished the last pages of The Diary of Anne Frank in middle school, Mrs. Kelly informed the class that Anne and her sister died of typhus in a prison camp, thanks to Adolf Hitler. I was horrified, not just because of the prison camp but because everything I’d be taught as a girl told me that because Anne was Jewish, because she had not accepted Jesus Christ as her Savior, she and the rest of her family were burning in hell. I remember staring at the black-and-white picture of Anne on the cover of my paperback, privately begging God to let her out of the lake of fire. For weeks, I prayed diligently for her departed soul, even though I’d heard that only Catholics did such a thing. I was a pretty intense kid, actually…


In Sunday school, they always make hell out to be a place for people like Hitler, not a place for his victims. But if my Sunday school teachers and college professors were right, then hell will be populated not only by people like Hitler and Stalin, Hussein and Milosevic but by the people they persecuted. If only born-again Christians go to heaven, the piles of suitcases and bags of human hair displayed at the Holocaust Museum represents thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children suffering eternal agony at the hands of an angry God. If salvation is available only to Christians, then the gospel isn’t good news at all. For most of the human race, it is terrible news."



I can’t tell you how encouraging it has been to learn that I’m not the only one asking these kinds of questions and not the only one deeply troubled by them.

It’s hard to believe that I was once terrified to write them down because most of the Christians around me at the time said that my concern for the damned represented a weakness of faith, that I was “oversensitive,” “soft,” and “humanistic.” But your response has emboldened me to continue putting faces and names to issues that can so easily drift into abstract theological debates.

I don’t’ pretend to know exactly what happens to people when they die, but my most instinctive and visceral sense of right and wrong tells me that a good and loving God would not torture Anne Frank for eternity. Yes, I know that this raises some theological objections for certain evangelicals, and yes, I know that I could be wrong.

But I’m finally beginning to believe that the thing inside of me that compels me to ask uncomfortable questions like this one is worth listening to now and then, that maybe it’s not a weakness but a strength.


***

How do you respond to this question? Does it make you uncomfortable?

And—perhaps most importantly—how can we pose troubling questions like this in a way that strengthens rather than weakens faith?


Thank you Deror for posting this., it is very thought provoking. I tried to give you a rep but people here beat me to it. :)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
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A unprovable belief in a "blessed assured hope" is no hope at all. Better to keep running the race then rest in the claims of OSAS.
I agree that we should all continue to fight the good fight and run the race to the best of our ability. I believe that it takes faith in evidence unseen to have a blessed assured hope of salvation. Being secure in your salvation frees you to become an even more effective humble servant of the Lord rather than agonizing over whether or not one is saved at any given moment.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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The reason that I know is because I said a prayer for her salvation 10 minutes ago. God hears and answers all prayer according to His will and desire and it is stated in scripture that God's will and desire is that none shall perish but all will have eternal life. God heard this prayer even before He created the universe and I believe that according to the Word of God my prayer for salvation was considered and acted upon. Either God means what He says or He doesn't. Either Jesus died for our sins or He didn't. I chose to believe as led by the Holy Spirit on what is the truth of the matter and that truth is evident.
I was reading through the comments and this struck me like a thunderbolt! So much so, I have to ask this question to make sure I understand correctly:

Are you saying that if Anne was indeed in hell, you prayed her out?

Please, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
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I was reading through the comments and this struck me like a thunderbolt! So much so, I have to ask this question to make sure I understand correctly:

Are you saying that if Anne was indeed in hell, you prayed her out?

Please, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!
No, I'm saying that by praying for her salvation she did not go to hell in the first place but accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior before she died. No one is ever going to pray anyone out of hell. Abandon all hope all ye who enter there.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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No, I'm saying that by praying for her salvation she did not go to hell in the first place but accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior before she died. No one is ever going to pray anyone out of hell. Abandon all hope all ye who enter there.
How many people have you done this for?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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yeshuaofisrael.org
Because other Scripture attests to it...without using metaphors.

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
(Rev 14:9-11)

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Mat 25:46)
Pardon me. Wasn't Revelation 14 the scripture I was addressing? As far as eternal punishment goes, it simply means it is permanent not taking forever to carry out.

This is an old way of thinking.

For 2,000 years, its church. The name of Jesus Christ is placed in church, not in secular state of Israel created by United Nations resolution in the 20th century.
There are two parts to the Abrahamic Covenant. One is spiritual, having to do with salvation of our spirits. The other is physical, pertaining to reestablishing Israel to their Promised Land.