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Thread: Are we still divided?

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    Default Are we still divided?

    There is a lot of talk about faith vs. deeds. I like it to be honest.... Fun to see people debate...

    But what deeds does a person do for G-d to count and what is the faith (or maybe to do faith that is a deed can you faith without a verb) does G-d count? Can faith be a ver, which is a verb (a verb is a action)? So is to have faith a deed since it is an action? If yes, how does that mess up faith vs. deeds? Or does it? Are we still divided?

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    Can faith be a verb, which is a verb (a verb is a action)?
    Just try and keep it simple:

    FAITH = TRUST (CONFIDENCE) IN GOD AND CHRIST

    DEEDS = ACTIONS BASED ON THAT TRUST
    mcubed, Joidevivre, garee and 2 others like this.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    There is a lot of talk about faith vs. deeds. I like it to be honest.... Fun to see people debate...

    But what deeds does a person do for G-d to count and what is the faith (or maybe to do faith that is a deed can you faith without a verb) does G-d count? Can faith be a ver, which is a verb (a verb is a action)? So is to have faith a deed since it is an action? If yes, how does that mess up faith vs. deeds? Or does it? Are we still divided?
    it is the work of God we believe (have faith) in the one he sent.
    dcontroversal and garee like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Faith alone, and not saved by works, when we initially confess Christ for that is all we can do, and after we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead, and a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.

    1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

    2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.

    It is the work of faith for everything we do is a work, or think is a work, which Jesus said if you lust after a woman it is the same as if you committed the act, so whether a person thinks it or does it, it is a work.

    Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

    Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, so that means if a person does not abide in love then they have no faith to be saved.

    1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

    And this is charity, which if a person holds unto something contrary to charity then faith does not apply in their life.

    1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

    Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.

    Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    James points out charity, and if they neglect that he states can faith save them showing that it is a spiritual issue, and says faith without works of charity, and to love God, and people, then their faith is dead, for a person is justified by works, and not faith alone, and if they lack works of charity then they are not led of the Spirit, for a Spirit led life will only do what the Spirit wants.

    But many people that believe faith alone, and not saved by works, believe the prosperity Gospel, and go by their wants neglecting the poor and needy, and that is not love.

    1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
    1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

    John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.

    1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material): from such withdraw thyself.
    1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
    1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
    1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
    1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    Paul teaches that if anybody preaches that God blesses with money, and material things, for our wants, withdraw yourself from them, having food and clothing be content, for the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and that includes helping the poor and needy, and only going by your needs.

    And there are many people that do not love properly, but then think they are right with God, but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith does not mean anything without love.

    Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    Faith works by love, for it is not faith alone, but love alone, and everything that we do that is right stems from love.

    Faith alone, and not saved by works, when we initially confess Christ for that is all we can do, and after we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead, and a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.

    If someone reads faith alone, and not saved by works, and then reads in another place faith without works is dead, and a person is justified by works, and not faith alone, they are supposed to reconcile the situation, and harmonize the scriptures, instead of there being a seemingly contradiction, that is not a contradiction.

    But some people will not harmonize scriptures, and why is that, for what is their motive for not doing it, which it can only be obvious they like to hear scriptures their way.

    Do not call it saved by works, but call it be led of the Spirit and do those works, for we must do what God wants us to do.

    Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    Last edited by MattforJesus; 1 Week Ago at 07:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Just try and keep it simple:

    FAITH = TRUST (CONFIDENCE) IN GOD AND CHRIST

    DEEDS = ACTIONS BASED ON THAT TRUST
    Both verbs ... I like verbs... Salvation is is action and thing... You just said what I said noun and verb... I have to speak something else people do not keep the Scripture simple...
    Last edited by mcubed; 1 Week Ago at 08:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    Both verbs ... I like verbs...
    I like herbs.
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    M & M's melt in your mouth and not in your hands.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    I like herbs.
    As long as they are not *Herbal Magic*
    Laish likes this.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Just try and keep it simple:

    FAITH = TRUST (CONFIDENCE) IN GOD AND CHRIST

    DEEDS = ACTIONS BASED ON THAT TRUST
    Faith requires evidence, does it not? Faith requires substance. The question then is, how much and how often?

    Man is required to believe the gospel message about Jesus Christ. Through believing, man receives justification and forgiveness of sins. After a man is saved through believing, faith is put into action. The saved man is to put faith in God's word and demonstrate that faith through obedience.
    Dan58 likes this.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Faith requires evidence, does it not?...
    The evidence of THINGS NOT SEEN. What we have is God's testimony to the finished work of Christ. That is enough, since Blessed are they that have NOT SEEN, and yet have believed (John 20:29).

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Faith without works is dead... this verse in James isnt about receiving eternal life. Its about 'the faith'. That is the examples of actions shown in the chapter eg Rahab.

    They were jusitified not in terms of eternally justified.. but were acts that showed their trust in God.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    There is a lot of talk about faith vs. deeds. I like it to be honest.... Fun to see people debate...

    But what deeds does a person do for G-d to count and what is the faith (or maybe to do faith that is a deed can you faith without a verb) does G-d count? Can faith be a ver, which is a verb (a verb is a action)? So is to have faith a deed since it is an action? If yes, how does that mess up faith vs. deeds? Or does it? Are we still divided?
    Faith is believing God
    Deeds is you being Gods instrument and doing his works on earth
    Last edited by Tina2018; 1 Week Ago at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    I have learned that there are times when just to keep your faith alive is a work. To keep trusting when everything falls down around you, and have what you say line up with that trust. Believe me, it is work. Faith is easy when you are reading the bible and learning about what God will and can do. But, it is not work until it is tested.
    beta, Nehemiah6 and Deade like this.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joidevivre View Post
    I have learned that there are times when just to keep your faith alive is a work. To keep trusting when everything falls down around you, and have what you say line up with that trust. Believe me, it is work. Faith is easy when you are reading the bible and learning about what God will and can do. But, it is not work until it is tested.
    You have touched on a very important point. Every believer's faith will be tested, and some will be tested very severely, while others not as much. For God our faith has to be tried, tested, and proven to be genuine "gold". Therefore it must go through the furnace of testing and affliction, and come out refined and purified on the other side. At the same time the Bible tells us that God will not test us above that which we are able to bear.

    Consider Abraham, who waited for a son for 100 years, and after God gave him that son of promise, He asked that Abraham sacrifice him like a lamb. Imagine having to face that test personally, and take your own son's life at God's command! And James tells us that since Abraham passed this test with flying colors, his faith was shown to be genuine. Therefore Abraham is "the father of us all".
    Deade likes this.

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    Senior Member Dan58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    There is a lot of talk about faith vs. deeds. I like it to be honest.... Fun to see people debate...

    But what deeds does a person do for G-d to count and what is the faith (or maybe to do faith that is a deed can you faith without a verb) does G-d count? Can faith be a ver, which is a verb (a verb is a action)? So is to have faith a deed since it is an action? If yes, how does that mess up faith vs. deeds? Or does it? Are we still divided?
    “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is a noun (substance) and a verb (evidence). Imo, a person can believe without deeds, but faith requires deeds, because without deeds, there's no evidence of faith.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    YOU HOPE for things that are not yet seen,. There is no longer hope if you already see things.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Faith requires evidence, does it not? Faith requires substance. The question then is, how much and how often?

    Man is required to believe the gospel message about Jesus Christ. Through believing, man receives justification and forgiveness of sins. After a man is saved through believing, faith is put into action. The saved man is to put faith in God's word and demonstrate that faith through obedience.

    I would say that with evidence you don't need faith. In my case the evidence was all around me and still is but until I was saved I never saw it...

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    The evidence of THINGS NOT SEEN. What we have is God's testimony to the finished work of Christ. That is enough, since Blessed are they that have NOT SEEN, and yet have believed (John 20:29).
    Right. Noah had faith in what God told him even though it was unseen to Noah. The evidence of Noah's faith is his obedience to build the ark.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlSnookman7 View Post

    I would say that with evidence you don't need faith. In my case the evidence was all around me and still is but until I was saved I never saw it...
    The evidence that one believes the word of God is through a life of obedience. We are to believe what God has said even though we may not see it now. The evidence of our faith will be demonstrated through our obedience. We walk by faith not by sight.

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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    Anybody has motive to doubt on Jesus. He affirm things very dare so that, or He is who He said to be (as I believe), or He was the He was the greatest madman or liar who ever passed through this world.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member MissCris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we still divided?

    My study bible explains it like this:

    ”Faith and works are distinct but inseparable...Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead (Rom. 14:23). Saving faith, birthed through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, is alive. It grows. It loves. It serves. It trusts and obeys God’s Word. If it doesn’t, it’s dead. It’s false. It never was saving faith. Saving faith never dies; false faith never lives. The Holy Spirit produces obedience in those the Father justifies on the basis of the work of Christ.”

    There will always be division on this among those who claim to be Christian. There will always be those who think they have to do enough good deeds to make it to Heaven, and then those that see no sense in works because...faith, right? But, we are told that we are not saved BY good works, but FOR good works, and that those works, without faith, are dead. Anyone who believes the two are separate is not in line with scripture, or with God.
    HeRoseFromTheDead and garee like this.


    There's joy for the morning
    Oh sinner, be still
    Earth has no sorrow
    That Heaven can't heal
    -Crowder

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