SALVATION ("Freewill" choice, or sovereign predestination?)

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May 20, 2018
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#1
What is the truth in the Word of God on how one obtains eternal salvation? Is it optionable? Is it guranteed? Does it pertain to every human being that lives?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#2
Could you not choose a more difficult question for your first thread? :)
 
May 20, 2018
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#4
I apologise, but I find it to be a very crucial subject. Doctrinal truth is the foundation of surety, not confusion, in which every believer must build upon. I find it extremely important to know if we play a part in any manner in anything that pertains to our eternal destiny. I firmly believe that if you know the truth, the truth will set you free.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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#5
What is the truth in the Word of God on how one obtains eternal salvation? Is it optionable? Is it guranteed? Does it pertain to every human being that lives?
Seems we have a serious problem with this topic since it keeps coming up. If there has ever been a satisfactory reply we might well have missed it...since nobody knows but claims to.

is it an option ? well yes...God does not force it or Himself on us.
is it guaranteed ? only as long as we are obedient and submissive to God's teaching.
is it for every human ? yes if they want to avail themselves of it.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#6
I apologise, but I find it to be a very crucial subject. Doctrinal truth is the foundation of surety, not confusion, in which every believer must build upon. I find it extremely important to know if we play a part in any manner in anything that pertains to our eternal destiny. I firmly believe that if you know the truth, the truth will set you free.
yea I see your point . Just a heads up this one is a hot button issue as you probably already know. It’s that on your first go a round you start a thread on this subject dose cause suspicion . Folks tend to want to get to know you before they dive directly it to a subject that can cause grief on both sides .
Blessings
Bill
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#7
What is the truth in the Word of God on how one obtains eternal salvation? Is it optionable? Is it guranteed? Does it pertain to every human being that lives?

Why don't you start by giving us your view.
 
May 20, 2018
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#8
You're probably right Laish. I have been intensely drawn to know the truth. Because of the facts of my testimony (i.e. I used to hate anything remotely pertaining to God. I never believed. I never asked God to come into my life, but because of facts too lengthy to expand on now, He did, and He became prominent. He has given me faith, revelation, a desire to love Him, and what I consider to be a deep understanding of the truth. I never asked for any of it. Didn't believe enough to care to ask for it.) I can only stick with the truth revealed to me, and I'm sure by now you can guess where my belief on the subject standz. You are tight though, I should have used a little more wisdom with the timing. I appreciate your comments.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
I firmly believe that if you know the truth, the truth will set you free.
And that is excellent. Therefore -- in order to arrive at the truth -- simply ignore all the babble about freewill and predestination, and focus solely on Christ and His finished work of redemption for your salvation.
 
May 20, 2018
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#10
My belief is this...Like Lazarus was physically dead and able to do absolutely nothing, so we are spiritually dead and can do absolutely nothing until God calls us through his infinite mercy and gives us spiritual life: i.e. eternal life. I believe Christ's miracles pertaining to "earthly" circumstances are a parallel to God's spiritual works. He binds, He heals, He gives in over abundance, etc. This is what I know to be the good news... God is ever in control and has got me covered. If I was to believe that my filthy, filthy self is what I had to rely on to get to heaven, there would be no good news. God's arm is not too short to accomplish that which he wills. And I am humbly thankful for that.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#11
If it wasn't a "free will choice", then why does the Holy Spirit convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement? It wouldn't be necessary, now would it? God draws and man responds. A call to repentance, to believe in the Son of God whom the Father sent to die on the cross and raise three days later from the dead for the justification of us (believers).

People try to paint grace as "irresistible grace" but they mistake God's foreknowledge of those that would repent as an irresistible force. It simply is God knowing who would repent, and He convicts all, but not all repent. If all are not saved, then God's grace isn't irresistible, because the Holy Spirit convicts the whole world. Repentance then is of the utmost importance.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
My belief is this...Like Lazarus was physically dead and able to do absolutely nothing, so we are spiritually dead and can do absolutely nothing until God calls us through his infinite mercy and gives us spiritual life: i.e. eternal life.
So you wish to promote Calvinistic total depravity and predestination. However, God does NOT predestine some for Heaven and others for Hell. As I said, ignore all the babble about free will and predestination. It is totally fruitless and meaningless.

God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. However, in order to be saved, all are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But not all will obey the Gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#13
So you wish to promote Calvinistic total depravity and predestination. However, God does NOT predestine some for Heaven and others for Hell. As I said, ignore all the babble about free will and predestination. It is totally fruitless and meaningless.

God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. However, in order to be saved, all are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But not all will obey the Gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)
Thats my issue with TULIP, is the idea of irresistible grace. As if the Gospel cannot be rejected. If that were the case, then everyone would universally be saved because the Lord convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.
 
May 20, 2018
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#14
God has made all things for himself, uea, even the wicked for the day of doom. (Prov. 16:4)
I am not claiming total depravity, Just want to embrace the truth, and sovereignty of God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#15
Thats my issue with TULIP, is the idea of irresistible grace. As if the Gospel cannot be rejected. If that were the case, then everyone would universally be saved because the Lord convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.
Irresistible grace does to not mean that gospel is irresitible as such.

It means that its irresistible to those who are elect, i.e. the grace to them is irresistible.
 
May 20, 2018
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#16
"The world" does not represent every single individual, but all nationalities
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#17
Thats my issue with TULIP, is the idea of irresistible grace. As if the Gospel cannot be rejected. If that were the case, then everyone would universally be saved because the Lord convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.
Correct. TULIP is a totally distorted Gospel and fails to present the Gospel as revealed in Scripture. That is because the doctrines of men have been accepted as Gospel truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#18
"The world" does not represent every single individual, but all nationalities
Take some time to study that word properly, and you will then revise your notion about "the world". Bible Hub is an excellent help.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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#19
Welcome to CC!

I am a simple person so I look at it perhaps a bit differently. I am saved and sealed and righteous because Jesus saved me, sealed me and makes me righteous. Was is predestined? I don't know. Does it really matter to me personally? Nope.

That said we aren't even a page in and those pesky calvanists haven't even shown up yet....joking there, but I would be surprised if it doesn't get a bit...heated?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#20
Correct. TULIP is a totally distorted Gospel and fails to present the Gospel as revealed in Scripture. That is because the doctrines of men have been accepted as Gospel truth.
When you really study out TULIP, or as some present it TILUP (in the order we experience it), it comes with its complications.

The example of the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgement to the world in comparison to total depravity and irresistible grace, is a huge contradiction (between their belief, and God's word). How can God destine some to Hell, when Christ died for all? He is not just the propitiation for our sins only, God's word says, but for the sins of the world. How are such verses reconciled with this idea of election, predestination, and reprobation?

How can there be a call to repent, a call of repentance, to "whomsoever" when some are not elected to salvation but created for eternal damnation? All I see is contradiction after contradiction, when I compare TULIP (or Calvinism for that matter) with God's word.