About soul

[John146]

Hello there saints,

I have two questions, placed in two sections, both questions are in bold font.
So, feel free to skip the following intros.


1.
This is how my thoughts flowed.
God is eternal. Without beginning or end.
Our soul is also eternal.
When we die, we either live with God in eternity or we will be dying without Him eternally.

Since our soul has an eternal character, does it mean, that our soul was here (somewhere with God or I do not know where) before we were born?

There is a verse in Jeremiah supporting this presumption.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou hast come forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee and prophet unto the nations.

2.
I had this argument with one fellow brother, or I was rather whining (as usual) about me in this world.
So, he mentioned, that actually, it could of be my own choice.
To come to this world.
How interesting and awesome, isn’t it? (For me it is easier to blame me rather than God, so it was a relief)
I mean beside the fact that why on earth would I choose this life… (that’s not a question for you, thou)

So basically, what he said was, that before we have been born, we were as souls with God and we might discussed with Him possibility of our life.
Or we might had agreed with God with us being born.
Same way as Jesus did. Well, he rather volunteered... but something like that.

Do you think, that we agreed or even asked God to be born?

(Us being born, not Him... I hate English...so ambiguous grammar)

If so, it would be interesting to hear your reasons (which you obviously can’t remember, but you can still kinda guess them or deduce them)

Thank you in advance for your time and hopefully also answers

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

The Lord saw my substance in the womb and knew me before I was formed in the womb with all my members being complete, aka, parts of my body. He directed each part of my body to be formed perfectly.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Since our soul has an eternal character, does it mean, that our soul was here (somewhere with God or I do not know where) before we were born?

There is a verse in Jeremiah supporting this presumption.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou hast come forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee and prophet unto the nations.

What this verse means is that, when Jesus projected the world, in a miracle way, He had relationship with each human being that was to be created.

 

[shrume]

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

The Lord saw my substance in the womb and knew me before I was formed in the womb with all my members being complete, aka, parts of my body. He directed each part of my body to be formed perfectly.

What about people who are born with deformities? Does God direct that to happen as well?

(No)

 

[Deade]

Like Magenta said, there is nothing eternal about our soul. Let's take a look at the Bible's first reference to a soul.

SOUL=H5315
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word used in Gen. 1 to describe the creatures that God created. Your soul is nothing more than your living body. There are not three parts to us only two: body and spirit. Nothing about us is eternal. Those of us that call ourselves saved we are counting on God keeping his promise to resurrect our spirits. God is spirit.

John 4:24: “God is a spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” This is what your spiritual bodies are.

2 Cor. 3:17,18: “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” God does not need a body.

We would not even recognize Him in His glorified form. 2 Corinthians 5:16: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." He is now in glory.

Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits).

Hebrews 11:3: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

1 Timothy 1:17: “ Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

There is no resurrection of any kind of bodies. By nature bodies can be destroyed with explosives. By nature they grow old and wear out. If we will be like God we will be spirits, that is where our life force will be. Christ did say something about eating and drinking in the Kingdom.

Of course Christ ascended and came back in a physical body. He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two cherubim in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants.

The thing is the glorified Christ now looks nothing like what He did when He came back. (see 2 Cor. 5:16 above)

Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

 

[Magenta]

 

[Chavah]

Like Magenta said, there is nothing eternal about our soul. Let's take a look at the Bible's first reference to a soul.

SOUL=H5315
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word used in Gen. 1 to describe the creatures that God created. Your soul is nothing more than your living body. There are not three parts to us only two: body and spirit. Nothing about us is eternal. Those of us that call ourselves saved we are counting on God keeping his promise to resurrect our spirits. God is spirit.

John 4:24: “God is a spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” This is what your spiritual bodies are.

2 Cor. 3:17,18: “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” God does not need a body.

We would not even recognize Him in His glorified form. 2 Corinthians 5:16: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." He is now in glory.

Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits).

Hebrews 11:3: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

1 Timothy 1:17: “ Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

There is no resurrection of any kind of bodies. By nature bodies can be destroyed with explosives. By nature they grow old and wear out. If we will be like God we will be spirits, that is where our life force will be. Christ did say something about eating and drinking in the Kingdom.

Of course Christ ascended and came back in a physical body. He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two cherubim in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants.

The thing is the glorified Christ now looks nothing like what He did when He came back. (see 2 Cor. 5:16 above)

Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

hmmmm, only two part of human being you say?

soul equals body makes sense in light of Jeremiah 52, when he describes capture and exile of Judeans and counts them, he uses term souls ... (4600 souls)
but soul can return to body, according to 2. Kings 4 (Elisha and dead boy) which makes them separate units

It could be how you see it, seems more simpler and simpler things are usually also the right one ..
I still cling more to 3 parts of human being, thou
And no eternity at all? If - then only as a God's gift or punishment after our life? Or only as a gift?

Anyway, thank you dead/e, sir. Interesting reading
God bless you

 

[Nehemiah6]

Like Magenta said, there is nothing eternal about our soul.

Souls and spirits are imperishable. That is clearly taught in Scripture. There would have been no need for Sheol/Hades if this were not so.

Eternal life for those who are in the Lamb's Book of Life. Eternal damnation for those who are not.

So if you wish to quibble about whether the soul is "eternal" or "imperishable" it makes no difference.

 

[trofimus]

I think that soul is our specific personality, our "me", a mixture of physical body from Earth with spirit given by God. Soul is developing during life´s experiences as we grow and change ourselves.

Animals or unborn children have less developed souls/personalities, but they have both bodies and spirits.

Thats why it can be said "50 souls returned" meaning simply "50 persons, 50 people".

 

[FlyingDove]

Since our soul has an eternal character, does it mean, that our soul was here (somewhere with God or I do not know where) before we were born?

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou hast come forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee and prophet unto the nations.

Do you think, that we agreed or even asked God to be born?

Hello Chavah, interesting thoughts.

I would speculate that we are given a choice now, not before this life.

John 4:24 God is Spirit:

A spirit doesn't have flesh and blood. Luke 24:39

Gen 2:7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (eternal spirit) of life; and man became a living soul.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of ""soul & spirit"", and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
(NOTE: The dividing asunder of ""soul & spirit"". Creator God, can separate the two, we can't. We are a "living soul" only in relation to & in conjunction with the body.)

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly & [I pray God] your whole ""spirit & soul & body"" be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: Your WHOLE: ""Spirit, soul & body"". Man is a spirit (eternal) with a soul (maybe just temporary OR maybe eternal) Based on the choice to accept Gods offer of Grace, found in the person of Jesus Christ. Our spirit that has a soul, lives in a body)

Our spirit is the everlasting eternal part of each of us.

The soul is our thoughts & emotions that direct the actions we take. And functions only, in relation with our body.

Our body, well look into a mirror.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(NOTE: To me, this verse also suggests we were with God before we became living souls.)

Matthew 16:26 & Mark 8:36 What would it profit a man. To gain the whole world & lose his soul. A soul can be lost.
(NOTE: To me, this verse also suggests we can lose our soul, but, not our spirit)

Redeemed, Bought, Reconciled

Rev 5:9 Say's Christ redeemed us to God.
.
1 Cor 7:23 Say's we were bought (redeemed) with a price

Rom 5:10, 2 Cor 5:18, 2 Cor 5:20, Col 1:21 Say believers are reconciled to God. So, we are born seperated from God because of sin. In order to be reconciled, we must of, at some point, been in relationship with Him.

 

[Blain]

You know the discussion about the body soul and spirit is an interesting one. Some believe that the soul of a person in their thoughts and mind process and maybe that true to an extent but personally I believe that a persons soul is their true selves the very core of the person. Not the person that we see but who we truly are deep inside the person that only God truly knows and sees.

The spirit is one I am less knowledgeable about, if I had to make an assumption I would think the spirit of a person is their inner person. Like me for instance I am very emotional and sensitive a tender and meek person and my emotions are very powerful I am not what one would consider strong or manly but because of my tender spirit I am able to connect to others in ways that some could not.

But say that we were to talk about the human spirit.I often have thought about the human spirit, I have noticed that the human spirit is resilient even in the worst times we never truly give up we adapt and grow and yet continue to be flawed and make the same mistakes over and over. I think sometimes the word spirit is more of a defining of characteristics than anything.

And the body is just vessel flesh and bones and isn't the real us, in a world where a persons appearance and characteristics the lie that we see in the mirror too often defines us.

 

[Magenta]

Souls and spirits are imperishable. That is clearly taught in Scripture. There would have been no need for Sheol/Hades if this were not so.

Eternal life for those who are in the Lamb's Book of Life. Eternal damnation for those who are not.

So if you wish to quibble about whether the soul is "eternal" or "imperishable" it makes no difference.

Jesus told us to fear He Who could destroy both body and soul. Why would He do that if, as you say, the soul is imperishable? The fact of the matter is, that it is plainly taught in Scripture that death is the wages of sin. The best loved and most well known Scripture says:

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus told us to fear He Who could destroy both body and soul...

Once we correctly understand what "perish" and "destroy" mean in Scripture, there is no problem understanding why the soul is imperishable.


Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
A — 1: ἀπόλλυμι
(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6 , etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24 ; of the perishing of food, John 6:27 ; of gold, 1 Peter 1:7 . So of persons, Matthew 2:13 , "destroy;" Matthew 8:25 , "perish;" Matthew 22:7 ;27:20 ; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matthew 10:28 ; Luke 13:3,5 ; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 15:18 ; 2 Corinthians 2:15 , "are perishing;" 2 Corinthians 4:3 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ; James 4:12 ; 2 Peter 3:9 . Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE , LOSE , MARRED ,PERISH.

Perish
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1: ἀπόλλυμι
(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )
"to destroy," signifies, in the Middle Voice, "to perish," and is thus used (a) of things, e.g., Matthew 5:29,30 ; Luke 5:37 ; Acts 27:34 , RV, "perish" (in some texts pipto, "to fall," as AV); Hebrews 1:11 ; 2 Peter 3:6 ; Revelation 18:14 (2nd part), RV, "perished" (in some texts aperchomai, "to depart," as AV); (b) of persons, e.g., Matthew 8:25 ; John 3:15,16 ; 10:28 ; 17:12 , RV, "perished" (AV, "is lost"); Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 1:18 , lit., "the perishing," where the perfective force of the verb implies the completion of the process of destruction (Moulton, Proleg., p. 114); 1 Corinthians 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Peter 3:9 ; Jude 1:11 . For the meaning of the word see DESTROY , No. 1.