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Thread: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

  1. #1
    ibewhoibe
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    Default "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Greetings,
    "A Counterfeit Gospel"
    The Apostle Paul warned the church in Corinth that Satan the Devil always sought to appear as an angel of light, a bringer of truth, even thought bring lies and darkness. Paul warned his readers of those who would come preaching another gospel, another Jesus and another spirit (2 Corinthians 11:1-4,14) .

    Paul had written to the church at Thessalonica a few years early, to warn them that " the mystery of iniquity" was already at work. The mystery religions were quite prominent in the acient world, and Paul warned of a mystery that promoted lawlessness, a false gospel, a counterfeit of the actual good news that Jesus Christ had brought to this earth. This false message, instead of explaining how God's law can become internalized, encourages its adherents to believe that the law is no longer in effect in a Christians life.

    Written a few years after Paul's warnings to the churches in Corinth and Thessaloinca, the book of Jude, gave a very dire warning to Christians: " Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation,I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith whitch was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ".

    This counterfeit gospel, proclaimed since the first century, is today accepted by millions of sincerely deluded people. It distorts the meaning of God's grace. It proclaims that Christ has "done it all" and that obedience to His law is neither possible nor necessary. Those who accept this counterfeit do not comprehend the necessity of having thier very nature transformed.

    God's grace refers to the gifts conveyed by Him, including His unmerited pardon extended toward repentant sinners. No amount of our good works can earn either God's favor or His forgiveness, Rather, God took the initiative in our lives by extending His love toward us while we were yet sinners (Romans 5:8) . However, and this is crucial, we must responed to God's grace by forsaking our lawless rebellious ways and unconditionally surrendering to Him (Romans 6:1-6) .

    Living faith in the true gospel results in life-changing behavior and leads to salvation. A counterfeit gospel and a dead faith (James 2:20) will never save anyone from anything! Jesus warns about false prophets and teachers. Other scriptures reveal Satan the Devil as the great deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9). Satan has his ministers who appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:13-15) . Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24 that many false teachers would come and teach in His name, and deceive the vast majority of people. Perhaps now you can see that the way to eternal life could be difficult to find amid such deception and confusion!But Christ went on to teach how God's true followers could avoid that deception.

    Continuing in His message to His disciples, Jesus enlarged upon this teaching, Notice that His statement reveals a choice between God's will and self-will: "Not every-one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). Many professing Christians use religious-souding words and phrases, but by their sinful actions deny the Father and the Son. Some may even do "many miracles and wonders" in Christ's name, yet Jesus will tell them "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!"

    When a true Christian believes the true gospel, he believes in Christ as his personal Savior and surrenders in obedience to the Fathers will, including the Ten Commandments! This is a life-long commitment. Jesus said, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). It is not the broad and easy path, nor is it a popular, because we live in a world that is in revolt against God. However, Jesus reassured His disciples by saying " with God all things are possible".
    "I Be a Disciple of Jesus"
    In His Service

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    Senior Member AgeofKnowledge's Avatar
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Galatians demonstrates that in the life of a congregation, ill formed belief and practice can be detrimental to a congregation's spiritual health. Just because one calls himself a Christian is insufficient to establish the claim as fact. One may have the outward appearance of being a Christian, but, in reality, be a disbeliever at heart. Only God knows one's heart and knows one's true faith. Yet, Galatians reminds us that loyalty to God includes both right belief and practice.


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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Good word ibe. There are many counterfeit gospels out there many of them related to one another, such as OSAS, free grace easy believism ect.....

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    Senior Member AgeofKnowledge's Avatar
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    The cults today teach that Christ's perfect and full atonement wasn't good enough and that you are still under the law of Moses either partially or fully. This is the most common counterfeit Gospel found in the world today: That you are not saved by grace but by your own works.

    Tthe central theme of the gospel is that in Jesus, God has revealed a salvation that is received by faith. Romans is an epistle that some have viewed as a systematic theology. In an orderly fashion, it affirms the universality of man's lost condition and states that Jesus Christ has provided necessary redemption. With respect to the Law of Moses, the work of Christ has superseded it. The author shows that "righteousness" is of God and, furthermore, that those who come to righteousness must do so through faith in Jesus Christ. Justification before God is a matter of faith and not of works.

    Paul cites Abraham as a prototype of justification by faith. God provides the means; man responds in faith. Although God does not predetermine man's actions, God's determined will makes salvation possible. He has acted in a way that brings assurance of salvation, provided the recipient lives in faith.

    The consequent life is a living sacrifice, displayed in constant array to God for all to see. The "new" man bears testimony to his newly found righteousness. Through unwavering faith, godly behavior, and a servant attitude, one becomes a living demonstration of the character of his Lord.

    Galatians addresses a particular problem. Following Paul's teaching, there came teachers who did not understand the relationship between law keeping and faith. Since many references are made to the Law of Moses, one detects that the audience was heavily Jewish in background. Persons who felt that a right relationship with God was based on how well one observed the Law of Moses created the specific problem. Without diminishing the importance of right actions, Paul set forth a different basis for justification. The important dimension of justification is faith expressing itself through love.

    Understanding the meaning of “faith” as used by Paul in Romans and Galatians is critical to interpreting his thought. As one approaches the texts of Romans and Galatians, one should be aware of a variety of meanings associated with the word throughout the New Testament. In the context of Romans and Galatians, “faith” is generally equated with the channel, means, or location of righteousness.

    Righteousness is not found in law, but in Christ. It is not attained by human effort, but by God’s initiative in Jesus. The basis or ground of "righteousness" is the atonement. Faith is the channel through which righteous comes to us, the means by which we receive it. In this context, Paul’s injunction to “serve one another in love” and “live by the Spirit” (Rom. 13:9; Gal. 5:13-14, 16) implies that faith carries responsibility.

    For Paul, “faith” embodies commitment and trust. It also assumes obedience, for in Christ one ceases being a slave to law and becomes a slave to God. James uses language similar to Paul when talking of the proper response of faith (see Jas. 5:16). But in the context of the Epistle of James, the claim to faith is empty if one neglects to perform the duties of a Christian. James asks, “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?” (Jas. 2:14). When James says faith without works is dead, he is challenging those who claim to be Christians, but who act contrary to that claim. In favoring the rich, they despise the poor.

    By their behavior, they deny the very faith they claim to hold. James is not denying the tenets of Paul’s teaching about where or how one is justified. He is showing the implication of that justification. For Luther to call James an epistle of straw hinders the complete picture of what faith is and what it calls us to be as justified people.

    “Faith” has other nuances as well. The apostle John favors the verbal form of the word, and uses it mean assent to a truth. Following the report that Jesus had been seen in a post-resurrection appearance, Thomas said, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” A week later, Jesus appeared to him, showing him the signs he had requested. Jesus added, “Stop doubting and believe.” In this instance, to believe is to accept the resurrection of Jesus as a fact. Jesus continued with the statement, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Then John adds his own note as to the purpose of his writing: “that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name” (John 20:24-31).

    Having life is contingent upon accepting the fact of the resurrection. But elsewhere, we also know that acceptance of the fact of the resurrection is not sufficient for justification. There were many in Jerusalem who could not deny that Jesus had been resurrected. They had seen him. But this did not translate into a relationship with him. When the people gathered to hear the apostles speak at the first Pentecost following Jesus’ resurrection, they became convinced of the resurrection, ascension, and placement of Jesus at the right hand of God. It was at this point that they cried out, “What shall we do?” The apostolic response was simple, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:37-38).

    These people were now convinced that Jesus had been raised, as were the Pharisees and Sadducees. But like the Pharisees, they remained captive to their sin, being condemned by the law they could not keep. Repentance would be a necessary step on the way to finding justification in Christ. As Paul explains in Romans, baptism would then be the act that portrayed their participation in the death of Christ, who alone can justify one before God.

    Still further, faith is used to express unwavering dedication. This is especially apparent in the book of Hebrews. Faith is “defined” in the following way: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see” (Heb. 11:1). “By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command” (Heb. 11:3). “By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings” (Heb. 11:4). “By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice” (Heb. 11:17).

    Whether used by John, Paul, James, or the words of the author of Hebrews, the word “faith” is a powerful word. It expresses belief in a fact, the location of salvation, the performance of obligations, and long-term commitment. The context in which the term is used must be taken into account to sense the full and true meaning of the word. It would be a mistake to put Paul against James or to read into Paul something he was not advocating.

    Surely, faith in Christ eliminates the possibility that human activity can merit the grace of God. But to eliminate appropriate deeds from the life of the Christian is to deny the very faith by which one may claim his salvation.

    As in Romans, Galatians emphasizes that man can find righteousness only through faith in Jesus Christ. In both books, Paul insists, however, that acts of a sinful nature are to be set aside so spiritual fruit that reflects the Holy Spirit at work in one's life may be produced.

    Together, Romans and Galatians establish the rationale for the gospel. Man cannot find this through meditation, self-denial, self-mutilation, observance of rules, or cult teachings. He cannot find it even through submission to regulations that are divinely derived. Only in and through Jesus Christ is righteousness attained and reconciliation realized.

    If you have a serious interest in this topic, listen to 'The Law Accomplished' audio teaching for free from the Messages on the Law series found on this webpage:

    Audio

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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    The Law is not of faith.

    Teaching the Law is the false gospel.

    I am sorry to see that you all believe this way.

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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Do we know just who these false teachers were that Paul was so adamantly against? He called false Jews. He said that they had crept in unaware teaching of all things, the Law. They even went so far as to try to have Gentile believers get circumcised in order to become "Real Jews" and thus be pleasing to God. Well, we know what Paul had to say about this. They glory in your flesh. They are not of the true circumcision, but of the false. He even said that if one got circumcised in accordance with the Law, then Christ would do him no good.

    This whole thread distresses me.

  7. #7
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    Do we know just who these false teachers were that Paul was so adamantly against? He called false Jews. He said that they had crept in unaware teaching of all things, the Law. They even went so far as to try to have Gentile believers get circumcised in order to become "Real Jews" and thus be pleasing to God. Well, we know what Paul had to say about this. They glory in your flesh. They are not of the true circumcision, but of the false. He even said that if one got circumcised in accordance with the Law, then Christ would do him no good.

    This whole thread distresses me.
    Wow,VW I'm sorry this bothers you so, was not what I wanted to do! (Stress you out)
    Please forgive my teaching on this matter.
    But for those that can handle the truth Jesus says: (you want to enter life, "IF" you do my Fathers will)
    Matthew 19:17

    notice there is a condistion "IF"

    "I Be a Disciple of Jesus Christ"

  8. #8
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    The Law is not of faith.

    Teaching the Law is the false gospel.

    I am sorry to see that you all believe this way.
    VW,

    Our Fathers 10 Commandments only make's good for us to follow, I would not want to see someone steal from you are (Lord forbid Kill you) or (Lord forbid your wife to cheat on you) I'm not going to go on with this because you understand This is what Our Father Commands of us, To say to our Father this is a False gosple, is Bad!!

    We all need to understand there is a "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    I am sorry to see that you belieave the 10 Commandments is a False Doctrine.

    I disagree

    "I Be a Disciple of Jesus"

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    VW
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ibewhoibe View Post
    Wow,VW I'm sorry this bothers you so, was not what I wanted to do! (Stress you out)
    Please forgive my teaching on this matter.
    But for those that can handle the truth Jesus says: (you want to enter life, "IF" you do my Fathers will)
    Matthew 19:17

    notice there is a condistion "IF"

    "I Be a Disciple of Jesus Christ"
    And you think that the Father's will is for you to become a Jew and to follow the covenant that was given through Moses? Then you need to follow all of it, exactly, without fail, and oh yeah, you better buy a lot of doves and sheep and goats and such, so you can make all the required sacrifices. And if you are not circumcised in your flesh, you better go and have that done also, but by a rabbi, not some doctor.

    Truthfully, the will of God is that we believe in His Son whom He sent into the world, (these are exactly the words of Jesus in this matter,) and that we love one another just as He has loved us.

    I am not stressed out, I am distressed over you.

    vic

  10. #10
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    And you think that the Father's will is for you to become a Jew and to follow the covenant that was given through Moses? Then you need to follow all of it, exactly, without fail, and oh yeah, you better buy a lot of doves and sheep and goats and such, so you can make all the required sacrifices. And if you are not circumcised in your flesh, you better go and have that done also, but by a rabbi, not some doctor.

    Truthfully, the will of God is that we believe in His Son whom He sent into the world, (these are exactly the words of Jesus in this matter,) and that we love one another just as He has loved us.

    I am not stressed out, I am distressed over you.

    vic
    OK Vic, we know how we both see it, others can discern the topic, I'm sorry this has Distressed you over me.

    Please for-give

    "I Be"

  11. #11
    juspekatzus
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    There is only one mediator between our father and us -Jesus. For our father cannot look upon sin-Jesus carried all our sins, past, present and future, to the cross, where they were crucified once-once and for all. We are not saved by works, least anyone should boast! Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of our father. For the flesh is corrupt. We will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.-Bodies that will not get old sick or die! Our father do not remember our sins anymore. He will wipe every tear from our eyes. Our father is LOVE. We have been set free from the laws of sin and death-forever. In perfect love-there is no fear.

  12. #12
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by juspekatzus View Post
    There is only one mediator between our father and us -Jesus. For our father cannot look upon sin-Jesus carried all our sins, past, present and future, to the cross, where they were crucified once-once and for all. We are not saved by works, least anyone should boast! Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of our father. For the flesh is corrupt. We will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.-Bodies that will not get old sick or die! Our father do not remember our sins anymore. He will wipe every tear from our eyes. Our father is LOVE. We have been set free from the laws of sin and death-forever. In perfect love-there is no fear.
    Yes Jus, I agree Jesus carried all our Sin, When a true Christian believes the true gospel, he believes in Christ as his personal Savior and surrenders in obedience to the Fathers will, including the Ten Commandments! (And Turn from Evil ways) This is a life-long commitment. Jesus said, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
    So why would Jesus tell us this if its ok to break the Commandments of our Father

    Caint wait to hear this one Please answer Why Why would Jesus say KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS if they dont mean anything???????

    Thank You
    "I Be"

  13. #13
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    And you think that the Father's will is for you to become a Jew and to follow the covenant that was given through Moses? Then you need to follow all of it, exactly, without fail, and oh yeah, you better buy a lot of doves and sheep and goats and such, so you can make all the required sacrifices. And if you are not circumcised in your flesh, you better go and have that done also, but by a rabbi, not some doctor.

    Truthfully, the will of God is that we believe in His Son whom He sent into the world, (these are exactly the words of Jesus in this matter,) and that we love one another just as He has loved us.

    I am not stressed out, I am distressed over you.

    vic
    Sorry I agree Jesus was our Sacrifice Vic, Blood sacrifces wasnt law they where statues and ordance's, thier is no more atonment over doves sheeps and goats, Yes Thanks for our Heavnly Brother thiers no more killing needed,

    I only ask you please forgive me because I believe we should follow what Jesus says
    ( Keep the Commandments) all 10 of them

    "I Be"

  14. #14
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ibewhoibe View Post
    Yes Jus, I agree Jesus carried all our Sin, When a true Christian believes the true gospel, he believes in Christ as his personal Savior and surrenders in obedience to the Fathers will, including the Ten Commandments! (And Turn from Evil ways) This is a life-long commitment. Jesus said, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
    So why would Jesus tell us this if its ok to break the Commandments of our Father

    Caint wait to hear this one Please answer Why Why would Jesus say KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS if they dont mean anything???????

    Thank You
    "I Be"
    I follow the ten commandments because I follow the two. I follow the two because I follow Jesus. I follow Jesus because he has changed my heart and renewed my mind. It's like driving. If I continiously watch the edges of the road, I have trouble not going out of my lane. If I look at where the road goes, I automatically stay in the middle of my lane. If I focus on keeping the Law, I struggle to keep the Law. If I fix my sight on Jesus, I naturally keep the law. My goal and my hope is Jesus.

  15. #15
    ibewhoibe
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by charisenexcelcis View Post
    I follow the ten commandments because I follow the two. I follow the two because I follow Jesus. I follow Jesus because he has changed my heart and renewed my mind. It's like driving. If I continiously watch the edges of the road, I have trouble not going out of my lane. If I look at where the road goes, I automatically stay in the middle of my lane. If I focus on keeping the Law, I struggle to keep the Law. If I fix my sight on Jesus, I naturally keep the law. My goal and my hope is Jesus.
    Thank you very nicely said charisen, I agree,

    again I apoligize if I have ofended anyone

    "Ibe"

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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ibewhoibe View Post
    Sorry I agree Jesus was our Sacrifice Vic, Blood sacrifces wasnt law they where statues and ordance's, thier is no more atonment over doves sheeps and goats, Yes Thanks for our Heavnly Brother thiers no more killing needed,

    I only ask you please forgive me because I believe we should follow what Jesus says
    ( Keep the Commandments) all 10 of them

    "I Be"
    Where did Jesus say to keep the 10 commandments? Where did He say exactly that?

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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by charisenexcelcis View Post
    I follow the ten commandments because I follow the two. I follow the two because I follow Jesus. I follow Jesus because he has changed my heart and renewed my mind. It's like driving. If I continiously watch the edges of the road, I have trouble not going out of my lane. If I look at where the road goes, I automatically stay in the middle of my lane. If I focus on keeping the Law, I struggle to keep the Law. If I fix my sight on Jesus, I naturally keep the law. My goal and my hope is Jesus.
    I disagree. When you are following Jesus, you are doing just that, following Jesus. No Law. When you walk in the Spirit, it is without regard to any law. The Law was given as a covenant, to the Jews. Actually, according to Paul, this is what separated us from them. Actually excluded us from the promises of God. Paul wrote this, not me. And he further wrote that in the death of Jesus, these barriers were removed, the Law of the covenants.

    Now, either you teach the Law, which means that you teach everyone to become a Jew, or you teach Jesus Christ. That is what Paul wrote.

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    Senior Member AgeofKnowledge's Avatar
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    Post Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ibewhoibe View Post
    VW,

    Our Fathers 10 Commandments only make's good for us to follow, I would not want to see someone steal from you are (Lord forbid Kill you) or (Lord forbid your wife to cheat on you) I'm not going to go on with this because you understand This is what Our Father Commands of us, To say to our Father this is a False gosple, is Bad!!

    We all need to understand there is a "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    I am sorry to see that you belieave the 10 Commandments is a False Doctrine.

    I disagree

    "I Be a Disciple of Jesus"
    Are you in bondage to Seventh Day Adventist theology? (Apologetics) (Seventh-day Adventism exposed. « Defending. Contending.)

    The 10 commandements were never a false doctrine but Seventh Day Adventist teaching regarding them qualifies as false doctrine.

    Read 'Is the Christian Under The Bondage of the Ten Commandments?' : http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0...H%20Savage.pdf

    Us authentic Christians are not under the Old Covenant God had with the nation of Israel (The Law - Only One Covenant?). We are under a New Covenant in Jesus Christ with its glory and liberty.

    Faith in Christ eliminates the possibility that human activity can merit the grace of God. However, to say that the New Covenant condones sin, which you appear to be arguing for in your haste to return to the bondage of the law, is a complete and false assertion. In both Romans and Galatians, Paul insists that acts of a sinful nature are to be set aside so spiritual fruit that reflects the Holy Spirit at work in one's life may be produced.

    The Ten Commandments are part of the Old Covenant made between God and Israel. Notice the introduction to them:
    “And God spoke all these words: ‘I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt...’” (Exodus 20:1,2). “Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today” (Deuteronomy 5:1). (The Ten Commandments begin at verse 6).
    It is misleading to quote the Ten Commandments but leave off the introduction which tells for whom they were intended.
    “When they are read in their context (Exodus 19-24), the Ten Commandments are seen to inseparably connected with the Old Covenant, while we are now under the New Covenant of Grace.” (J.O. Sanders)
    Of course the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament contain many principles of behavior pleasing or not pleasing to God. These unchanging standards are repeated in the New Testament. Examples of these “moral laws” are found in Matthew 5, where Jesus quotes from the Ten Commandments, and then applies them to Christian behavior. Such laws are always in effect. But the Old Covenant itself, as a code or agreement, has passed away. (Hebrews 8:13).

    Read Romans 6. Obviously we are to be dead to sin but alive in Christ and in Christ following the rightous law of love and morality written on our hearts. Attempting to earn this by practicing a Sabbath ritual, offering burnt sacrifices, observing the ceremonial washings, etc... given to Israel in the Old Covenant isn't part of this and its in error to go about it like it is.

    Those practices were to be observed forever as long as the covenant endured, for they were part of the covenant. But now the entire covenant has been replaced by something better, as the book of Hebrews makes plain.

    The Bereans have a good page on the subject at: (Cult Profiles)

    Now will you please stop posting a couple false assertions and ignoring all the good information you are being given refuting the false theology you expouse. Thank you. We appreciate your cooperation.

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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    If we say that we fulfill the Law, that is one thing. But it should be remembered that fulfilling the Law is not even close to the least that Jesus requires of us in our conduct, because He requires us to live by a different creed, the creed of love. And since this creed is infinitely higher than the creed of the Law, it is obvious that one who follows love, (which is what following Jesus means,) would of course fulfill the fullness of the Law, and even more so. For it is obvious that the Law could make nothing perfect. If we would know the truth, Jesus demands of us perfection, just as He was perfect. He said, as you have seen Me do, go and do likewise. And only one thing can make us perfect, in God's eyes. That is drawing near to Him, in Jesus Christ. Seeking His life to be our life, by the Holy Spirit.

    In truth, there would be no thought for the Law in the mind of such a devoted one to God the Father through Jesus Christ. The Law actually gets in the way of this life, hinders the one who is seeking to become perfected in love.

    But I believe that I will never be able to convince some, because they cannot envision a church ruled by the Spirit and the love of God. And so there must be rules and laws and the Law. For if we had faith we would walk by the Spirit, and know that whoever was not walking in love would be brought up short, by those who are walking in the Spirit. And no amount of hiding would cover up that they were not walking in love. Remember the couple who lied to the Spirit. No one saw them lie, or knew how much they had sold their things for, but the Spirit knew, and the apostles were listening to the Spirit. correction, strict and immediate. It may seem harsh, but there was a reason for this.

    Oh well, I am going on, and not changing anyone's mind.

  20. #20
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: "A Counterfeit Gospel"

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    I disagree. When you are following Jesus, you are doing just that, following Jesus. No Law. When you walk in the Spirit, it is without regard to any law. The Law was given as a covenant, to the Jews. Actually, according to Paul, this is what separated us from them. Actually excluded us from the promises of God. Paul wrote this, not me. And he further wrote that in the death of Jesus, these barriers were removed, the Law of the covenants.

    Now, either you teach the Law, which means that you teach everyone to become a Jew, or you teach Jesus Christ. That is what Paul wrote.
    My point isn't that I follow the Law, but rather that the change in my behavior comes as a result of following Jesus. Do you believe that the presence of Jesus in a person's life produces a change in that person's character? Do you believe that that change will be in according to the commandments to love God and to love your neighbor? Do you believe that the entire Law is summed up in those two commands?

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