T
I thought about putting this under the thread thats says "there is one saving gospel" but think it differs enough to say it ai a different topic altogether...plus I honestly don't want to go into circles like that thread does...like two kids throwing a baseball back and forth but usually the message hitting the ground and rolling a good way until one has to walk to try to understand the now dirty message...
Anyway, We are saved for holiness (or to be holy)! And little else...
If Christ saves you or has saved you and you continue to be filthy, read the end of Revelations--one of the more serious warnings in all scripture, "let the faithful continue to be faithful, let the pure continue to be pure and let the filthy continue to be filthy."
The thing is true Christians are called to have absolutely NO FELLOWSHIP with Christians who continue in the ways of this world, Jesus says we are to think of them the same as gentiles or taxcollectors--not even to associate whatsoever with them lest we take part in their sins....
So if Christ cleans you or you claim he has cleaned you and you you still play in the mud, you either are a liar or you are trying to make Jesus a liar...almost an equal blasphemy...
And in the beginning of revelations, Jesus asks all the churches to strive for holy love--or else their lamp (himself) shall be taken from them--was Jesus just threatening something he couldn't do? Just playing with us?
I think I'm a little off topic...
Okay, we are saved to reflect Christ--if we are not reflecting Christ--how can we call ourselves Christ-ian?
Those who continue in sin have reprobate minds...
But even more than this, so you claim Christ saved you? That he protects and guides you from sinning and from the evil one? Then what are you doing, my friend, sharing in the bread of demons as Paul says? Are you with me (Jesus) or against me? Discern--test yourself as Paul says...
If you truly thought Jesus was better than 'whichsoever' sin you are commiting then you would leave it for him...its a simple truth...Christians don't go from strawberry icecream to dog dodo quickly (tried to think of what word to use here, and I am not sure quickly works, I am thinking...)...But it is even more serious than this, as those who claim to be in Christ claim or are one Body with him, how could a mound of living strawberry icecream man (a fictional character made of strawberry icecream) go and decide he likes dodo better? What is clear is that he wasn't made or isn't made of strawberry icecream--he is probably either a dodo man or a fly...
I have stated in another post and here I state it again, though perhaps an unpopular view...
I think it will be far worse in hell for someone who claims or is Christian (who knows and still does wrong)than for the unbeliever who doesn't know and still does things wrong...Doesn't Jesus teach this when he says the one who didn't know will get beat with a few stripes, but the one who did know will get beat with many thrashes?
Its not that works save you...If works had saved you--you would and could never be holy in Christ..
We are dealing with the afteraffects of being saved, and if you are saved, most people assume you know the Lord...so in knowing you may have a choice rather or not to continue in sin? I am not sure of this as to me my salvation seems to be dependent on Christ alone deciding for me...and I honestly don't feel I can continue in sin...
But the theoretical "Can you be a Christian and unholy" seems a conatradiction to me...If you are one body with him, how can you be unholy...
Or how can Christ's body sin?!?
One more point, the main idea I was trying to convey I don't think I have stated.
We are called to perservere...There are ten virgins remember, these are not 'sinners' Jesus wants us to know that they are virgins in probably every facet as that is what Jesus shows us...but foolish virgins don't bring enough oil...I pray you consider and pray over this.
"Why did they leave us? Because they were not one of us.." This is not an exact quote from scripture but I am just trying to show that I am not sure in my own mind how this works...I know that as I said we are saved for holiness--in a way we can say that holiness saves us, Christ's holiness, forming his face in us (And in righteousness I will see your face when I awake I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness Psalm 17)...To put it more clearly I believe that The gift of perserverence is synonymous or implicitly contained in salvation itself. If you cannot perservere without sin any longer, and go back into debauchery, you may be certain that Christ did not save you...How can I say this? If he had held you and he never lets those God sends him go, how would you have gone back? The perserverence itself is a gift of God... Is it I who perserveres or Christ who perserveres in me? Is it Paul who has the motivation to preach or is it the spirit in him that beckons him to speak, in such a way that if he did not he knows he would be in trouble if he did not?
Is perserverance us or God in us? The truth is it is both, but it is dependent on the secound and if the second be not there, than even the perserverance is counted as nothing. How can those in the flesh be pleasing to God? Scripture teaches us they cannot.
God's holiness, peace, and love to those who follow
(If I was an icecream man and you a little kid, how could you expect to get icecream unless you chased after the icecream sound/truck? You can think he will magically give you icecream all you want as a kid without chasing, but it seems you cannot get it unless you find and are with him...)
tony
Anyway, We are saved for holiness (or to be holy)! And little else...
If Christ saves you or has saved you and you continue to be filthy, read the end of Revelations--one of the more serious warnings in all scripture, "let the faithful continue to be faithful, let the pure continue to be pure and let the filthy continue to be filthy."
The thing is true Christians are called to have absolutely NO FELLOWSHIP with Christians who continue in the ways of this world, Jesus says we are to think of them the same as gentiles or taxcollectors--not even to associate whatsoever with them lest we take part in their sins....
So if Christ cleans you or you claim he has cleaned you and you you still play in the mud, you either are a liar or you are trying to make Jesus a liar...almost an equal blasphemy...
And in the beginning of revelations, Jesus asks all the churches to strive for holy love--or else their lamp (himself) shall be taken from them--was Jesus just threatening something he couldn't do? Just playing with us?
I think I'm a little off topic...
Okay, we are saved to reflect Christ--if we are not reflecting Christ--how can we call ourselves Christ-ian?
Those who continue in sin have reprobate minds...
But even more than this, so you claim Christ saved you? That he protects and guides you from sinning and from the evil one? Then what are you doing, my friend, sharing in the bread of demons as Paul says? Are you with me (Jesus) or against me? Discern--test yourself as Paul says...
If you truly thought Jesus was better than 'whichsoever' sin you are commiting then you would leave it for him...its a simple truth...Christians don't go from strawberry icecream to dog dodo quickly (tried to think of what word to use here, and I am not sure quickly works, I am thinking...)...But it is even more serious than this, as those who claim to be in Christ claim or are one Body with him, how could a mound of living strawberry icecream man (a fictional character made of strawberry icecream) go and decide he likes dodo better? What is clear is that he wasn't made or isn't made of strawberry icecream--he is probably either a dodo man or a fly...
I have stated in another post and here I state it again, though perhaps an unpopular view...
I think it will be far worse in hell for someone who claims or is Christian (who knows and still does wrong)than for the unbeliever who doesn't know and still does things wrong...Doesn't Jesus teach this when he says the one who didn't know will get beat with a few stripes, but the one who did know will get beat with many thrashes?
Its not that works save you...If works had saved you--you would and could never be holy in Christ..
We are dealing with the afteraffects of being saved, and if you are saved, most people assume you know the Lord...so in knowing you may have a choice rather or not to continue in sin? I am not sure of this as to me my salvation seems to be dependent on Christ alone deciding for me...and I honestly don't feel I can continue in sin...
But the theoretical "Can you be a Christian and unholy" seems a conatradiction to me...If you are one body with him, how can you be unholy...
Or how can Christ's body sin?!?
One more point, the main idea I was trying to convey I don't think I have stated.
We are called to perservere...There are ten virgins remember, these are not 'sinners' Jesus wants us to know that they are virgins in probably every facet as that is what Jesus shows us...but foolish virgins don't bring enough oil...I pray you consider and pray over this.
"Why did they leave us? Because they were not one of us.." This is not an exact quote from scripture but I am just trying to show that I am not sure in my own mind how this works...I know that as I said we are saved for holiness--in a way we can say that holiness saves us, Christ's holiness, forming his face in us (And in righteousness I will see your face when I awake I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness Psalm 17)...To put it more clearly I believe that The gift of perserverence is synonymous or implicitly contained in salvation itself. If you cannot perservere without sin any longer, and go back into debauchery, you may be certain that Christ did not save you...How can I say this? If he had held you and he never lets those God sends him go, how would you have gone back? The perserverence itself is a gift of God... Is it I who perserveres or Christ who perserveres in me? Is it Paul who has the motivation to preach or is it the spirit in him that beckons him to speak, in such a way that if he did not he knows he would be in trouble if he did not?
Is perserverance us or God in us? The truth is it is both, but it is dependent on the secound and if the second be not there, than even the perserverance is counted as nothing. How can those in the flesh be pleasing to God? Scripture teaches us they cannot.
God's holiness, peace, and love to those who follow
(If I was an icecream man and you a little kid, how could you expect to get icecream unless you chased after the icecream sound/truck? You can think he will magically give you icecream all you want as a kid without chasing, but it seems you cannot get it unless you find and are with him...)
tony