Do you truly understand the Virgin birth?

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christiancanadian

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Do you truly understand the Virgin Birth?

by ChristianCanadian


I used to be one of many people who was distracted at Christmas time. I understood that Mary was a virgin who gave birth to Jesus. All of us of course, know the 'manger scene' with the baby Jesus.

WHY was Jesus born to a virgin! I didn't think too deeply on it, but I guess I heard the story so many times as a child, I just figured that Jesus was God in the flesh and he can be born however he wants!! lol.

However, there IS a deeper meaning as to why Jesus was born to a virgin and NOT conceived by earthly means. When I started thinking on this (I saw a short clip on it somewhere I think), it totally blew me away and made scripture all the more real to me. I'll share it with you, and some of you may be amazed that you missed it your entire life! Some of you may know this.

Jesus was born to a virgin, because he could NOT be born into Adam's bloodline. This proves how we are literally born into sin! If Jesus was born by earthly means, need I explain more, then he would still be born from Adam's bloodline. Quite simply, when Jesus was made into flesh, his sacrifice wouldn't have been sufficient because he would still have...you guessed it...Adam's bloodline (i.e. DNA, genes). THAT IS WHY JESUS WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN. HE WAS BORN UNCORRUPTED. JESUS' earthly flesh had NO TIES to Adam. It couldn't. Because of what Adam and Eve did, they corrupted the bloodline into sin. Jesus was born PERFECT.

All praise and glory to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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umm, one problem. What about Mary , she was from Adam's bloodline.
 
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BLC

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Don't stop there! Mary had an old sin nature like ever one else, so how was the old sin nature or Adam's bloodline not transferred to Christ but transferred to every member of the human race?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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BLC that reminds me.
I thought Jesus needed to have some of Adam's DNA otherwise he could not have shared oursinful nature and taken it to the cross.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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this is the verse I'm thinking of:

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
 
MahogonySnail

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and

Heb 2:14 Since then the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise partook of the same; that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death (that is, the Devil),
 
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christiancanadian

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MahogonySnail said:
umm, one problem. What about Mary , she was from Adam's bloodline.
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Your missing the whole point. All Mary was...was the earthly vessel chosen by God to carry Jesus. Jesus was NOT from Adam. You could not have a born sinner paying the price for...sinners! Jesus had NOOOOOO sin!
 
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christiancanadian

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MahogonySnail said:
this is the verse I'm thinking of:

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
Click to expand...

"likeness of sinful flesh". Meaning, he was born in a human body.
 
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christiancanadian

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BLC said:
Don't stop there! Mary had an old sin nature like ever one else, so how was the old sin nature or Adam's bloodline not transferred to Christ but transferred to every member of the human race?
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You are missing the point too.

Below, referenced from gotquestions.org...

First, let’s look at how scripture describes the blessed event. In response to Mary’s query, “how?,” Gabriel says, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee” (Luke 1:35). The angel encourages Joseph to marry Mary with these words: “that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 1:20).

From these passages, it is certainly clear that Jesus’ birth was the result of the Holy Spirit working within Mary’s body. The immaterial (the Spirit) and the material (Mary’s womb) were both involved. Mary, of course, could not impregnate herself, and in that sense she was simply a “vessel.” Only God could perform the miracle of the Incarnation.
 
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christiancanadian

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MahogonySnail said:
and

Heb 2:14 Since then the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise partook of the same; that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death (that is, the Devil),
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Jesus was not born in sin; that is, He had no sin nature (Hebrews 7:26). It would seem that the sin nature is passed down from generation to generation through the father (Romans 5:12, 17, 19). The Virgin Birth circumvented the transmission of the sin nature and allowed the eternal God to become a perfect man.
 
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BLC

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christiancanadian said:
You are missing the point too.

Below, referenced from gotquestions.org...

First, let’s look at how scripture describes the blessed event. In response to Mary’s query, “how?,” Gabriel says, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee” (Luke 1:35). The angel encourages Joseph to marry Mary with these words: “that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 1:20).

From these passages, it is certainly clear that Jesus’ birth was the result of the Holy Spirit working within Mary’s body. The immaterial (the Spirit) and the material (Mary’s womb) were both involved. Mary, of course, could not impregnate herself, and in that sense she was simply a “vessel.” Only God could perform the miracle of the Incarnation.
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You misunderstood me. I agree with you, but you need to explain furthur how that happens! Mary was a virgin, but she had an old sin nature just like Joseph and everyone else, but how could she conceive a son, Jesus Christ, without the old sin nature being transferred to Jesus Christ, as it was to her other children. Go a little deeper and how did that happen? What did God do to make it possible? Does the old sin nature come from the man or the woman? If it is from the man and not the woman, explain how it happens.

There is no specific genetic DNA structure or chromosone for the old sin nature, but it lives in every cell of the human body (Rom 6:13, 7:23). Even the cross can't eradicate that from our body, it will only be eradicated through the redemption of our bodies (Rom 8:23). The body that unbelievers will have when they are cast into the lake of fire, will be the same body they had on earth that they fulfilled the lusts of the flesh, but in a resurrected form. They will feel and experience pain and suffering with their flesh and bones, even the cremated ones, because flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God (1Cor 15:50).
 
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christiancanadian

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BLC said:
You misunderstood me. I agree with you, but you need to explain furthur how that happens! Mary was a virgin, but she had an old sin nature just like Joseph and everyone else, but how could she conceive a son, Jesus Christ, without the old sin nature being transferred to Jesus Christ, as it was to her other children. Go a little deeper and how did that happen? What did God do to make it possible? Does the old sin nature come from the man or the woman? If it is from the man and not the woman, explain how it happens.

Explain further how this happened? It has nothing to do with Mary's sinful nature. Even though she was chosen by God to "CARRY" Jesus, Mary still had a sinful nature. That's the whole point, Mary carried Jesus, but Jesus was NOT a product of Mary's biolgical DNA (i.e. sinful nature). This was NOT your typical human birth as we know it. Did she give birth to Jesus...yes, because she CARRIED Jesus. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and Mary carried Jesus in her womb. Jesus WAS born human, but his conception had absolutely NOTHING to do with Mary except carrying him in her womb and giving birth to him. It was a miracle done soley by God.
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R

Rosinsky

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christiancanadian said:
Jesus was born to a virgin, because he could NOT be born into Adam's bloodline.
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Christiancanadian, I, too, think that you are into something here. However, you need to explain further. How does Mary's virgin-ness (Did not want to say virginity because being a virgin at that time meant more than never having sexual intercourse) factor into Adam's bloodline?
 
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christiancanadian

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I don't want anyone to mistake what I'm saying. Jesus was born absolutely human, BUT he was born without the sinful nature:

Scripture teaches that Jesus was fully human, with a physical body like ours. This He received from Mary. At the same time, Jesus was fully God, with an eternal, sinless nature. See John 1:14; 1 Timothy 3:16; and Hebrews 2:14-17.
 
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christiancanadian

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Rosinsky said:
Christiancanadian, I, too, think that you are into something here. However, you need to explain further. How does Mary's virgin-ness (Did not want to say virginity because being a virgin at that time meant more than never having sexual intercourse) factor into Adam's bloodline?
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Mary was indeed part of Adam's bloodline. There is no denying that. Where does the virginity come into play in all of this?

Because Jesus was not conceived by a man. Jesus' birth was an absolute miracle by God, and did not require a male sperm or a female egg. Jesus was born absolutely human, but he was conceived by the Holy Ghost. This way, Jesus was NOT corrupted by Adam's bloodline and sinful nature..physically. As far as spiritually, we know Jesus is perfect and sinless and he was certianly not corrupted that way either because he is God.
 
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christiancanadian

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christiancanadian said:
Mary was indeed part of Adam's bloodline. There is no denying that. Where does the virginity come into play in all of this?

Because Jesus was not conceived by a man. Jesus' birth was an absolute miracle by God, and did not require a male sperm or egg. Jesus was born absolutely human, but he was conceived by the Holy Ghost. This way, Jesus was NOT corrupted by Adam's bloodline and sinful nature..physically. As far as spiritually, we know Jesus is perfect and sinless and he was certianly not corrupted that way either because he is God.
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CORRECTION: It may be that the sinful nature is passed on by the father to the child, rather than the mother. Much like how it is the father that determines the child's gender. So to make this even more complicated, a theory may be that the females' egg alone does not have the sinful nature until it comes into contact with the fathers' sperm. Therefore, with this theory it could have been Mary's egg (without sin due to no contact with sperm) combined with the Holy Ghost (basically impregnating her but sinless because it is not from a man). Does this theory now change that Mary did not have the sinful nature? No. Mary still had the sinful nature because she was still in Adam's bloodline.
 
pagie

pagie

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hi im just adding a post so I will get updates in this thread because I would be interested on were it ends up going :)
 
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markhelp

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Mary was a virgin when she conceived -- but she was not a virgin when she gave birth because the angel told Joseph to fear not and to "take unto thee Mary thy wife." That phrase is Biblically accurate; the angel gave them the go-ahead to have sexual intercourse.

Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, God. That doesn't mean God had intercourse with Mary; I hope nobody is that stupid.

That's why the soul-life in his blood was sinless. That's why Jesus Christ was a MAN and not God.
The Bible calls Jesus Christ "the second Adam."

The first Adam was not God; nor is the second Adam.

Hebrews 2:14 is your key verse of scripture to consider. All people born in this world share fully in the flesh and blood. Jesus did not share fully, he only took part. What part did he take? He took the flesh.
He was a man. But he had sinless soul-life in his blood because he was conceived by the Holy Spirit who is God. God had to create that perfect seed in Mary so that Jesus could be fully a man, descended from Adam , and yet not have that sinful nature that all the rest of mankind is born with.

A person has to really understand the greatness of Hebrews 2:14 in order to see what God did. A person must also have a good understanding of the difference between body, soul, and spirit.

God bless
 
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BLC

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christiancanadian said:
CORRECTION: It may be that the sinful nature is passed on by the father to the child, rather than the mother. Much like how it is the father that determines the child's gender. So to make this even more complicated, a theory may be that the females' egg alone does not have the sinful nature until it comes into contact with the fathers' sperm. Therefore, with this theory it could have been Mary's egg (without sin due to no contact with sperm) combined with the Holy Ghost (basically impregnating her but sinless because it is not from a man). Does this theory now change that Mary did not have the sinful nature? No. Mary still had the sinful nature because she was still in Adam's bloodline.
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That is starting to make good and sound understanding about Christ and His hyper-static union as the God-man, the Son of God and the Son of man. Now follow through with what you have said so far and explain the humanity and divinity of Christ all within one body and how that relates to the believer in his relationship to Christ through the Holy Spirit.
 
MahogonySnail

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Of course Christ didn't have a sinful nature but his human flesh inherited the corruption from Adam.
If Jesus was a human being then he would have had to have had Adam's DNA, of course!
The bible says Jesus was a descendant of David and David was obviously a descendant of Adam.
Jesus's body was sown in corruption and raised in incorruption. Just like ours will be. Jesus's earthly body was of course, corrupted.

If Jesus did not have the same human flesh as ours, corrupted thanks to sin, then Jesus would have been not able to die. He also would probably not have aged very much, if at all. His human flesh would probably have been perfect and uncorrupted in any way.

If Jesus had none of Adam's DNA then why would God choose a human woman. God could have used a surrogate cow to give birth to Jesus or make him come out of a large egg like in the beginning of Monkey Magic.

So I don't buy this idea that the reason God used Mary was to avoid Adam's DNA. It's not about DNA at all. Jesus had Adam's DNA, otherwise Jesus was not human and could not die for us who were also inheritied Adam's DNA. Think about it. And take some biology classes.
 
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