correct my summary

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by AgeofKnowledge

That's because they are found in the Bible. My position is exactly the historical authentic position the Apostles held as taught in scripture. I'm not part of a sect or a cult.

I have never said you are part of a sect or a cult. And I was being sincere. Though we may not entirely agree I do recognise that you make your points well

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by AgeofKnowledge

I believe God loves everyone Consumed and wants all people to repent and come to the knowledge of the truth so they can worship Him in spirit and truth.

Jesus said: Matt 15:14 "They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

Then Jesus said, Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

Then Jesus said: Matt 23:31-33 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

Jesus was obviously against heresy and he was very serious about how he addressed it. He loved sinners and saints alike but he spoke and taught against heresy. Jesus is our example. Jesus loved people yet spoke strongly and often against heresy.

Don't set yourself up against Jesus Christ's example Consumed that we love everyone yet speak truth and denounce heresy from love of God and humankind.

I love you, I love the young believer these guys are trying to pull into their doctrinal error, I love the one caught in the web of doctrinal error and trying to pull people into it (though not what they are doing), and I certainly do love God.

I love everyone enough to share God's Word in truth and correct the heresy (as Jesus my example did). I don't follow you Consumed nor care to enable pluralism and obvious doctrinal error so I can be loved by all.

Jesus is my example: not you.

Check your own eye brother.

read the post, used the words??? and Jesus were rebuking the learned know it all teachers of the day, the elite of the Word, only time He held a righteous anger for failing in showing the truth thru actions - LOVE

am i setting myself up?? point one three back, i point to the cross on calvary, three back at me - wooohooo - im blessed

[AgeofKnowledge]

Originally Posted by Consumed

read the post, used the words??? and Jesus were rebuking the learned know it all teachers of the day, the elite of the Word, only time He held a righteous anger for failing in showing the truth thru actions - LOVE

Today we rebuke those who lead people into the error of cults and falsehood about who He is and What he said. The Pharisees were not the "elite of the Word" or Jesus wouldn't have rebuked them. They were a political party, a social movement, and a purity cult that had taken the Word of God and turned it into something it wasn't similiar to what the cults do today. Jesus was right to rebuke them for twisting God's Word so.

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by AgeofKnowledge

Today we rebuke those who lead people into the error of cults and falsehood about who He is and What he said. The Pharisees were not the "elite of the Word" or Jesus wouldn't have rebuked them. They were a political party, a social movement, and a purity cult that had taken the Word of God and turned it into something it wasn't similiar to what the cults do today. Jesus was right to rebuke them for twisting God's Word so.

Was it not that they knew the literal words of the Bible(as it was then) off by heart, but not the higher points of the law as Jesus Himself said. Mercy, justice, compassion and love

[phil36]

Originally Posted by ibewhoibe

Ok Phil, But dont The word of God cuts both ways, Whats the truth, are you saying you have it, and they dont, I love reading this debates, on all these subjects, as Im learning more and more every Day!!
But I'm also learning that Scripture can confuss one,

Now I know you seen my thread on a conterfiet Gospel," Not trying to get off topic here but as a view"
you seen my brothers correct me, on the Law as we are not under the law, but they acepted the fruit, you see I'm seeing scripture tell me if you want to enter " Keep the Comandments" evrey one left me alone when I said the Fruits, But It dosent say if you want to enter keep the fruits does it,

My point is if anyone is going to change thier views acording to yours and how you see the scripture reading, dont sling a dart telling them there way is some cults and there not a true Christian. Yes I can learn from you as I have, But aint the Laws and the Fruits really the same.

In Prayers all the attacts will stop!

"I Be"

Hi I Be,

Firstly, These are not just 'my views' they have been the view of the church from the time of the church. The people I have debated with mainly Livingbygrace know full well the Trinity, however, choose themselves to deny it.

I cant remember your thread on Countefiet Gospel, but will go and have a look. The law is a whole different subject altogether.... and the issue of what exactly does Paul mean by 'Works of the Law' thats not as easy as it first sounds. and it is a whole different ball game than something that has always been classed as heresy. although we are free from the ''works of the law'' notice the wording and it is Paul's wording, we are not free from the moral law we are not law - less! anyhow that was off topic aswell lol.

There are certain things that are just denominational differences, examples the Arminian V Calvinism, Holiness perfection, and differing forms of church government which really sometimes is the difference in denominations.

But there are some foundational doctrines: The Trinity being One of them.You could say there are 9 basics to True Christian belief, these will be slightly different from denomination to denomination, However the Triune God won't.

1. GOD
There is one God, who exists eternally in three distinct but equal persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is unchangeable in his holiness, justice, wisdom and love. He is the almighty Creator; Saviour and Judge who sustains and governs all things according to his sovereign will for his own glory.

2. THE BIBLE
God has revealed himself in the Bible, which consists of the Old and New Testaments alone. Every word was inspired by God through human authors, so that the Bible as originally given is in its entirety the Word of God, without error and fully reliable in fact and doctrine. The Bible alone speaks with final authority and is always sufficient for all matters of belief and practice.

3. THE HUMAN RACE

All men and women, being created in the image of God, have inherent and equal dignity and worth. Their greatest purpose is to obey, worship and love God. As a result of the fall of our first parents, every aspect of human nature has been corrupted and all men and women are without spiritual life, guilty sinners and hostile to God. Every person is therefore under the just condemnation of God and needs to be born again, forgiven and reconciled to God in order to know and please him.

4. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
The Lord Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, and lived a sinless life in obedience to the Father. He taught with authority and all his words are true. On the cross he died in the place of sinners, bearing God's punishment for their sin, redeeming them by his blood. He rose from the dead and in his resurrection body ascended into heaven where he is exalted as Lord of all. He intercedes for his people in the presence of the Father.

5. SALVATION
Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace and cannot be earned or deserved. It has been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ and is offered to all in the gospel. God in his love forgives sinners whom he calls, granting them repentance and faith. All who believe in Christ are justified by faith alone, adopted into the family of God and receive eternal life.

6. THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit has been sent from heaven to glorify Christ and to apply his work of salvation. He convicts sinners, imparts spiritual life and gives a true understanding of the Scriptures. He indwells all believers, brings assurance of salvation and produces increasing likeness to Christ. He builds up the Church and empowers its members for worship, service and mission.

7. THE CHURCH
The universal Church is the body of which Christ is the head and to which all who are saved belong. It is made visible in local churches, which are congregations of believers who are committed to each other for the worship of God, the preaching of the Word, the administering of Baptism and the Lord's Supper; for pastoral care and discipline, and for evangelism. The unity of the body of Christ is expressed within and between churches by mutual love, care and encouragement. True fellowship between churches exists only where they are faithful to the gospel.

8. BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER
Baptism and the Lord's Supper have been given to the churches by Christ as visible signs of the gospel. Baptism is a symbol of union with Christ and entry into his Church but does not impart spiritual life. The Lord's Supper is a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice offered once for all and involves no change in the bread and wine. All its blessings are received by faith.

9. THE FUTURE
The Lord Jesus Christ will return in glory. He will raise the dead and judge the world in righteousness. The wicked will be sent to eternal punishment and the righteous will be welcomed into a life of eternal joy in fellowship with God. God will make all things new and will be glorified forever



Blessings

Phil

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by livingbygrace

Was it not that they knew the literal words of the Bible(as it was then) off by heart, but not the higher points of the law as Jesus Himself said. Mercy, justice, compassion and love

amen brother, still to this day - both statements you made

[phil36]

Originally Posted by Consumed

read the post, used the words??? and Jesus were rebuking the learned know it all teachers of the day, the elite of the Word, only time He held a righteous anger for failing in showing the truth thru actions - LOVE

am i setting myself up?? point one three back, i point to the cross on calvary, three back at me - wooohooo - im blessed

Consumed, Jesus had cross words for those who twisted Scripture and those who lay in bed with them ''Woe!''

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by phil36

Consumed, Jesus had cross words for those who twisted Scripture and those who lay in bed with them ''Woe!''

??????? come to save not condemn- cross words with the adultress??the samaritan woman??One who had legion??the woman with the issue of blood?? etc ??
no, just the ones who used Gods Word to condemn and show no mercy compassion nor love is the way I read it. I must be missing something??Hmmmm, nope still at peace with it. Woes come as a overall teaching to all us to remember LOVE as our guide

[phil36]

Originally Posted by Consumed

??????? come to save not condemn- cross words with the adultress??the samaritan woman??One who had legion??the woman with the issue of blood?? etc ??
no, just the ones who used Gods Word to condemn and show no mercy compassion nor love is the way I read it. I must be missing something??Hmmmm, nope still at peace with it. Woes come as a overall teaching to all us to remember LOVE as our guide

Yes Love, How merciful was our Lord and Love we also should show. However, you are definatly mistaking if you dont Jesus condemned also??? Im not saying we should condemn but we should not stand for heresy, or side with people who espouse these heretical views.

I will use your very own words consumed: no, just the ones who used Gods Word to condemn

Blessings

Phil

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by phil36

Hi I Be,

Firstly, These are not just 'my views' they have been the view of the church from the time of the church. The people I have debated with mainly Livingbygrace know full well the Trinity, however, choose themselves to deny it.

I cant remember your thread on Countefiet Gospel, but will go and have a look. The law is a whole different subject altogether.... and the issue of what exactly does Paul mean by 'Works of the Law' thats not as easy as it first sounds. and it is a whole different ball game than something that has always been classed as heresy. although we are free from the ''works of the law'' notice the wording and it is Paul's wording, we are not free from the moral law we are not law - less! anyhow that was off topic aswell lol.

There are certain things that are just denominational differences, examples the Arminian V Calvinism, Holiness perfection, and differing forms of church government which really sometimes is the difference in denominations.

But there are some foundational doctrines: The Trinity being One of them.You could say there are 9 basics to True Christian belief, these will be slightly different from denomination to denomination, However the Triune God won't.

1. GOD
There is one God, who exists eternally in three distinct but equal persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is unchangeable in his holiness, justice, wisdom and love. He is the almighty Creator; Saviour and Judge who sustains and governs all things according to his sovereign will for his own glory.

2. THE BIBLE
God has revealed himself in the Bible, which consists of the Old and New Testaments alone. Every word was inspired by God through human authors, so that the Bible as originally given is in its entirety the Word of God, without error and fully reliable in fact and doctrine. The Bible alone speaks with final authority and is always sufficient for all matters of belief and practice.

3. THE HUMAN RACE

All men and women, being created in the image of God, have inherent and equal dignity and worth. Their greatest purpose is to obey, worship and love God. As a result of the fall of our first parents, every aspect of human nature has been corrupted and all men and women are without spiritual life, guilty sinners and hostile to God. Every person is therefore under the just condemnation of God and needs to be born again, forgiven and reconciled to God in order to know and please him.

4. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
The Lord Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, and lived a sinless life in obedience to the Father. He taught with authority and all his words are true. On the cross he died in the place of sinners, bearing God's punishment for their sin, redeeming them by his blood. He rose from the dead and in his resurrection body ascended into heaven where he is exalted as Lord of all. He intercedes for his people in the presence of the Father.

5. SALVATION
Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace and cannot be earned or deserved. It has been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ and is offered to all in the gospel. God in his love forgives sinners whom he calls, granting them repentance and faith. All who believe in Christ are justified by faith alone, adopted into the family of God and receive eternal life.

6. THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit has been sent from heaven to glorify Christ and to apply his work of salvation. He convicts sinners, imparts spiritual life and gives a true understanding of the Scriptures. He indwells all believers, brings assurance of salvation and produces increasing likeness to Christ. He builds up the Church and empowers its members for worship, service and mission.

7. THE CHURCH
The universal Church is the body of which Christ is the head and to which all who are saved belong. It is made visible in local churches, which are congregations of believers who are committed to each other for the worship of God, the preaching of the Word, the administering of Baptism and the Lord's Supper; for pastoral care and discipline, and for evangelism. The unity of the body of Christ is expressed within and between churches by mutual love, care and encouragement. True fellowship between churches exists only where they are faithful to the gospel.

8. BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER
Baptism and the Lord's Supper have been given to the churches by Christ as visible signs of the gospel. Baptism is a symbol of union with Christ and entry into his Church but does not impart spiritual life. The Lord's Supper is a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice offered once for all and involves no change in the bread and wine. All its blessings are received by faith.

9. THE FUTURE
The Lord Jesus Christ will return in glory. He will raise the dead and judge the world in righteousness. The wicked will be sent to eternal punishment and the righteous will be welcomed into a life of eternal joy in fellowship with God. God will make all things new and will be glorified forever



Blessings

Phil

By saying we are not free from the moral law, do you mean the Ten Commandments? Are we under law for them? A genuine question

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm both in Christ and at peace in Christ and God loves and shows compassion in me and through me. I also enjoy helping new believers from getting caught in the error of cults and sect's doctrinal errors regarding God's Word. Your false charges against Christians who accurately divide God's Word and help people from falling into the error of cults and sect's heresy, as well as get free of it, is unloving and condemning. I forgive you as a loving Christian person and will continue to follow both the example and teachings of Jesus not Consumed. Praise the Lord for that.

Originally Posted by Consumed

??????? come to save not condemn- cross words with the adultress??the samaritan woman??One who had legion??the woman with the issue of blood?? etc ??
no, just the ones who used Gods Word to condemn and show no mercy compassion nor love is the way I read it. I must be missing something??Hmmmm, nope still at peace with it. Woes come as a overall teaching to all us to remember LOVE as our guide

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by phil36

Yes Love, How merciful was our Lord and Love we also should show. However, you are definatly mistaking if you dont Jesus condemned also??? Im not saying we should condemn but we should not stand for heresy, or side with people who espouse these heretical views.

I will use your very own words consumed: no, just the ones who used Gods Word to condemn

Blessings

Phil

bro - Jesus own words - I did not come to condemn but save - and romans 8:1 for now there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (who walk according to the spirit and not the flesh)

if our own heart does not condemn us, we are in right standing before God

Holy Spirit convicts us of His righteousness, we have been redeemed, convicts the world of sin

[phil36]

Originally Posted by Consumed

bro - Jesus own words - I did not come to condemn but save - and romans 8:1 for now there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (who walk according to the spirit and not the flesh)

if our own heart does not condemn us, we are in right standing before God

Holy Spirit convicts us of His righteousness, we have been redeemed, convicts the world of sin

Yes all that is true! I wholeheartedly agree. However, Jesus had cross words for those who twisted scripture..

I am also sure you know that those who are not His children are condemned already?

Blessings

Phil

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by phil36

Yes all that is true! I wholeheartedly agree. However, Jesus had cross words for those who twisted scripture..

I am also sure you know that those who are not His children are condemned already?

Blessings

Phil

John 3:16 bro. Who those are they are, in the meantime LOVE. Some vessels are MADE for honor aothers destruction, why?? then goes on to say dont ask ..... is God cruel now? i think not , He is soveriegn and has all in the palm of His hand

blessings Phil

[phil36]

Originally Posted by Consumed

John 3:16 bro. Who those are they are, in the meantime LOVE. Some vessels are MADE for honor aothers destruction, why?? then goes on to say dont ask ..... is God cruel now? i think not , He is soveriegn and has all in the palm of His hand

blessings Phil

I know what you are saying consumed, and I do love, but I will not love heresy. And you are definatley right God is not cruel, but don't be mistaken, in the Old Testament, we see Love and Judgement.. Be assured that the judgment is coming, it has just been postponed until the time only the Father knows.

Blessings Consumed.

[livingbygrace]

Deliberately twisting scripture is indeed a bad thing to do.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life John3:16

He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him
I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, he has crossed over from death to life. John5:23&24

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John6:40

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God God lives in him and he in God. 1John4:15

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1John5:12

[phil36]

Originally Posted by livingbygrace

Deliberately twisting scripture is indeed a bad thing to do.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life John3:16

He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him
I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, he has crossed over from death to life. John5:23&24

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John6:40

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God God lives in him and he in God. 1John4:15

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1John5:12

Mmmmm and your point is LBG?

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by phil36

Mmmmm and your point is LBG?

My point is clearly made

If you are right why do those and many other verses I can quote not say unless we believe that Jesus is God Himself we do not have life?

Your position on this is to put it mildly ridiculous

[Consumed]

Originally Posted by phil36

I know what you are saying consumed, and I do love, but I will not love heresy. And you are definatley right God is not cruel, but don't be mistaken, in the Old Testament, we see Love and Judgement.. Be assured that the judgment is coming, it has just been postponed until the time only the Father knows.

Blessings Consumed.

amen Phil , in the meantime the mercy seat is open, judgement will come, His not ours bro. If it was up to man we would be writing people off in a flash at times, only He knows the heart of any man /woman

all good phil
God bless

[phil36]

Ahh so now we get to the gist of it LBG. you do believe in heresy and follow it.

Yes Jesus is God, but He is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is God, yet He is not the Father or the son. all three are distinct persons but one. this my friewnd is the triune God.

Of course you do not seem to believe this. so all that can be taken is that you willfully follow heresy... A heretic!

Blessings

Phil