What would a Christian government look like? Would it succeed in this world?

[thefightinglamb]

I JUST want to know what type of government would a Christian government be? and what would it look like/act like? and if it could succeed in a 'worldly' earth.

For example take "when your brother strikes you on one cheek turn to him the other" or "you shall not lie" or "whenever you look at a girl lustfully you have already commited adultry with her in your heart." What would a government look like that took these commands seriously? Would adultry be dealt with jail time? Should it? How about sex outside of marriage, et cetera.

I also want taken into consideration next that they wanted to make Jesus king by force and He retreated from this...does this mean that trying to make a Christian government/Christian oriented laws does not promote or increase the likely-hood that people will live godly lives?

Just wondering and thought it could make a good discussion with all the people that think that governments should base their standards on Christian principles, which I also believe to a large extant--but am just unsure what that will look like.

For me, I often think the principle to love even your enemies often leads to a secular state like we have here in the Unites States. I believe only if you hate or somehow disadvantage other people/religions, that you may get a purely religious state. Take the muslim states for example.

While secular living can spell disaster within a church, within a government it seems that secular culture promotes and allows for true Christian growth.

This ironically can also be seen in Kierkegards complaint against a state that claims to be Christian--he believes that it is almost impossible to be a Christian in a Christian state--because then the Bible seems twisted and people seem to become proud and get somewhat famous by falling the Bible instead of being persecuted as the Bible suggests. Also, many nations that claim Christianity are tending towards the secular.

I also believe that a monarchy seems to be better supported in scripture than a democracy...is this going against the Bible because it tells me to be submissive to my government?

Now its your turn. I have more thoughts but will wait a little while.

God bless
tony

ps. TS Eliot's "Religion and Culture" also has important points on what a person truly believes in and what his culture truly believes in. It may also be worthwhile to ask if you can truly be a Christian in a nation that thrives on unChristian values.

 

[Saint]

I'd first say "look at the dark ages" even though the church didn't rule the entire government, they had a good deal of power, and if you go against the laws of the Bible, there would be punishments. That being said, there would probably be no more or less corruption than any human government, which is why we will only have a perfect government when we are in heaven and when the everything is finished. This is proven by many aspects in the Bible, like where Solomon, the wisest man in existance, became corrupt, David became corrupt, and really any time Israel became corrupt through its government. There were also the Pharasees, and even though they didn't rule at a high level, they did rule at a low level, and were still corrupted. But, that happens in nearly every government.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

The first thing is that a "Christian" government would recognize that God had established the estates of man (government, religion, family, economy) and had set boundaries around each of these. That means that the government would stay within it's own God-given boundaries and stay out of the boundaries that God set for the other estates. Romans 13:4 says that the government is suppose to cause fear in those who would do evil. The purpose of government is to be an avenger to those who would do evil. It is the only one of the estates that is given the power to take life. In exchange it is to be respected and financially supported.

So, the government would institute laws which would punish evil while not exceeding its own boundaries or interfering with the functioning of the other estates.

These are the principles that it would function under:
1. The law of humility. It would recognize that there are things that it cannot fix.
2. The law of safety. It would protect the lives of all who live under its authority.
3. The law of Jubilee: It would allow all citizens a means by which they could be free: politically, socially, culturally, and economically.
4. The law of equality: It would treat all persons equally.
5. The law of faith: It would allow the free expression of faith and all forms of faithlessness.
6. The law of respect: It would treat all people with respect.
7. The law of family: It would recognize and foster the family and healthy familiar relationships.
8. The law of property: It would protect the property rights of individuals.
9. The law of honesty: It would enforce rules of honesty in government, law, and economy.
10. The law of gleaning: That it would provide opportunity for the poor.

 

[Shard]

It would be easy enough to find out. You could start be reading By What Standard? by R.J. Rushdoony. However, the United States Constitution established a secular nation that protected the rights of all religions to practice freely, but prohibited the government from establishing one in preference to all the others.
Finally, the concept of a Christian government whether based on "Christian Values" or the Christian Bible would by its nature be discriminatory against believers of all other religions, or those who do not believe in any religion, who happen to be citizens of the United States. There is nothing inherent in the Christian religion that makes it superior to any other religion.
Anyhow, if you're trying to align a "Christian Government" with the actual teachings of Christ, the phrase "oxymoron" come to mind. The power, wealth, and violence of government is the very antithesis of humility, charity, and non-violence of Christ's teachings.
The closest we could get to a genuinely "christian" government based on Christ's teachings would be some form of socialism.
As for a "biblical" government... Christ rebelled against such a government, and was crucifiedfor it. There's a reason why governments in general have moved away from bronze-age values.


In all no offense, but a Christian Government would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to Christianity. With the inherent laws that would come about you are setting up almost a dictatorship where-in if you truly want to enforce Biblical laws you are effectively criminalizing over 50% of the population that isnt Christian. The closest to a Chrisitian government though would be Vatican City I believe.

 

[thefightinglamb]

I had a quick thought...

When Jesus was arrested he said "my kingdom is not of this world." What do you all think that means?

What difficulties are found in trying to make his kingdom of this world???

I wonder if you all think it is possible for a Christian to (should a Christian) vote for a non-Christian into government instead of a Christian in certain circumstances...perhaps the non-Christian is more 'experienced' for the job or perhaps God even suggests to the person to vote for the non-Christian? In a democracy, are we really to condemn all non-believers out of government and any other high position because they are sinners and not Christian?

It is not us versus them; Christianity versus the heathens. It is Christianity versus the power, forces, principalities in this world. And while we may be spiritually fighting the powers and forces, et cetera. that are guiding a person's life, we are never against other people. We are fully for them and honestly desire that all men would see and love the face of God, in Jesus Christ our Lord. I remember a prayer in Little Men where a little boy prays, Please God bless everyone and help us to be good. It is an honest prayer even for our enemies--we want them to be blessed.

I found it ironic how some people try to pull these two together. They somehow say that though Jesus did not get involved in political affairs (become a governor/king. et cetera), it is a Christian duty to get involved in governmental affairs (I am NOT saying this is wrong...just quixotic about it...). It is almost as if WWJD (What would Jesus do?) goes straight out the window, and we start justifying how governments can make this world a better place for everyone if they were Christian...

If Jesus wanted to, once again, he could of been physically king of the Jewish nation...and I have little doubt by the power of God he could have conquered this world and established a "Christian government" but he refused this physical kingship...what does this mean for us?

Some more thoughts...I have many more.

God bless
tony.

 

[Shard]

I dont vote based on anyone's faith or religious preference. But rather my opinion of them and their stances on the issues i care about.

 

[Cleante]

Before we can answer your question, we have to define the word Christian. Eastern Orthodox? Roman Catholic? Lutheran? Coptic Orthodox? Oriental Orthodox? Anglican? Pentecostal? Progressive Baptist? Southern Baptist? Evangelical? See my point?

 

[SantoSubito]

So, the government would institute laws which would punish evil while not exceeding its own boundaries or interfering with the functioning of the other estates.

These are the principles that it would function under:
1. The law of humility. It would recognize that there are things that it cannot fix.
2. The law of safety. It would protect the lives of all who live under its authority.
3. The law of Jubilee: It would allow all citizens a means by which they could be free: politically, socially, culturally, and economically.
4. The law of equality: It would treat all persons equally.
5. The law of faith: It would allow the free expression of faith and all forms of faithlessness.
6. The law of respect: It would treat all people with respect.
7. The law of family: It would recognize and foster the family and healthy familiar relationships.
8. The law of property: It would protect the property rights of individuals.
9. The law of honesty: It would enforce rules of honesty in government, law, and economy.
10. The law of gleaning: That it would provide opportunity for the poor.

I would have to agree with all of these points except for number 5. In my mind for it to be a totally Christian government it would have to have a State Church. Additionally i would have some system where the Christian population is taxed less than the non-Christian population. Finally, i would have a monarchical form of government where the monarch was elected by the Bishops of the state Church.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I had a quick thought...

When Jesus was arrested he said "my kingdom is not of this world." What do you all think that means?
I think that he meant that he was not there to bring in a theocracy. that theocracy would come when this world passed away.

What difficulties are found in trying to make his kingdom of this world???
Because the old man still walks in us, we would wind up mixing the holy with the fleshly.

I wonder if you all think it is possible for a Christian to (should a Christian) vote for a non-Christian into government instead of a Christian in certain circumstances...perhaps the non-Christian is more 'experienced' for the job or perhaps God even suggests to the person to vote for the non-Christian? In a democracy, are we really to condemn all non-believers out of government and any other high position because they are sinners and not Christian?
While faith is a positive thing, there are times when I would vote for the non-christian. What I would not vote for is an agressive anti-christian.

It is not us versus them; Christianity versus the heathens. It is Christianity versus the power, forces, principalities in this world. And while we may be spiritually fighting the powers and forces, et cetera. that are guiding a person's life, we are never against other people. We are fully for them and honestly desire that all men would see and love the face of God, in Jesus Christ our Lord. I remember a prayer in Little Men where a little boy prays, Please God bless everyone and help us to be good. It is an honest prayer even for our enemies--we want them to be blessed.

I found it ironic how some people try to pull these two together. They somehow say that though Jesus did not get involved in political affairs (become a governor/king. et cetera), it is a Christian duty to get involved in governmental affairs (I am NOT saying this is wrong...just quixotic about it...). It is almost as if WWJD (What would Jesus do?) goes straight out the window, and we start justifying how governments can make this world a better place for everyone if they were Christian...
Jesus was a good citizen, but he did not live in a country with any democratic institutions. If he had, I think he would have voted.

If Jesus wanted to, once again, he could of been physically king of the Jewish nation...and I have little doubt by the power of God he could have conquered this world and established a "Christian government" but he refused this physical kingship...what does this mean for us?
If we set our minds on establishing a theocracy, we will begin to rely on ourselves, we will make government an idol, and we will get our eyes off of the second coming.

Some more thoughts...I have many more.

God bless
tony.

Good thoughts.

 

[lighthousejohn]

The first thing is that a "Christian" government would recognize that God had established the estates of man (government, religion, family, economy) and had set boundaries around each of these. That means that the government would stay within it's own God-given boundaries and stay out of the boundaries that God set for the other estates. Romans 13:4 says that the government is suppose to cause fear in those who would do evil. The purpose of government is to be an avenger to those who would do evil. It is the only one of the estates that is given the power to take life. In exchange it is to be respected and financially supported.

So, the government would institute laws which would punish evil while not exceeding its own boundaries or interfering with the functioning of the other estates.

These are the principles that it would function under:
1. The law of humility. It would recognize that there are things that it cannot fix.
2. The law of safety. It would protect the lives of all who live under its authority.
3. The law of Jubilee: It would allow all citizens a means by which they could be free: politically, socially, culturally, and economically.
4. The law of equality: It would treat all persons equally.
5. The law of faith: It would allow the free expression of faith and all forms of faithlessness.
6. The law of respect: It would treat all people with respect.
7. The law of family: It would recognize and foster the family and healthy familiar relationships.
8. The law of property: It would protect the property rights of individuals.
9. The law of honesty: It would enforce rules of honesty in government, law, and economy.
10. The law of gleaning: That it would provide opportunity for the poor.

I think we need to remember the human condition. The Bible tells us that it is not in Man's nature to pursue God. That would seem to require some sort of membership agreement; otherwise the non-christians would be in open rebellion. Much as it is now.

In Christ,
John

 

[Mulehide]

Won't there one day be a Christian government on the earth? Jesus will reign for a thousand years while people are still allowed free will and the choice to turn against God. I've sometimes wondered just what it will be like to live under such a reign.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

One thing that I was trying to say was that a "Christian" government would not neccesarily be a religious government. I think that I would like to see a nation of largely Christians, where the non-Christians think it is the best place in the world to live, because they are not treated as second class citizens. This would be a great testimony to the world, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen.

 

[Consumed]

a christian governament??

they had a revelation not long after pentecost, they gave everything to God and no person lived in poverty, all their needs were met. World system with ungodly people tried it - communism - socialism- one thing is for sure, it isnt capitalism, if we are going to talk christian governments many christians with world veiws would call it communism or socialism, and that both are evil. When ministered by man, yes they are, for all is designed for power of a few to control en masse, only with Jesus as King would and can ever there be equality and justice for all and no person would be left naked, cold, destitute nor hungry.

christian communties have been taken in by wolves in sheep clothing while voting in leaders who said they were christian, then put their trust in their armies and forgetting Jesus and His words all together, bless those that curse you, bless and curse not, yet we get all theogical about that and lean on the old covenant of an eye for an eye when it suits us and then try to mix new wine in old wine skins, Jesus never encouraged war(Jesus never marched on Rome when He walked the earth) up to and hence forth from the cross, not once has or had He, to do so would be to make Him a liar.love thy neighbour as thyself, turn the other cheek, bless them, love them, doesnt equal fighting words of war being justified.

come Jesus come, o how we need you Lord to govern over all of us - in justice mercy and truth, only you can, Amen

 

[_Centurion_]

As an olde worlder, we had expierance of religious goverment and a lot of people had to die to put an end to all of that, several times over.

A fact that did not escape the framers of the new world order (lol, not NWO in that sense, but the constiutional basis of the newly formed society, but still funny), went to great lengths to seperate church and state.

Even, a cursory look around the planet at the difference between secular and religious goverment and issues as fundemental to freedom as civil liberties and freedom of speech paint a pretty compelling arguement for not choosing to be led by any group whose primary function is other than governance.

This is not to say that secular goverment are worth much either.

To quote Churchill:

"It has been said that Democracy is te worst form of goverment except all others that have been tried"

 

[Protection_Retribution]

Another crusade, with nukes this time yehaw.

 

[_Centurion_]

Before we can answer your question, we have to define the word Christian. Eastern Orthodox? Roman Catholic? Lutheran? Coptic Orthodox? Oriental Orthodox? Anglican? Pentecostal? Progressive Baptist? Southern Baptist? Evangelical? See my point?

An excellent point, ties in nicely with my comments of having to kill lots of people several times over, at least if the historical precident is followed.

 

[_Centurion_]

I would have to agree with all of these points except for number 5. In my mind for it to be a totally Christian government it would have to have a State Church. Additionally i would have some system where the Christian population is taxed less than the non-Christian population. Finally, i would have a monarchical form of government where the monarch was elected by the Bishops of the state Church.

There exactly is the problem, within at best a generation you have religious oppresion and sectarian vilonce and potentially centuries of bloodshed. I know all thats wrong and in a perfect world that wouldnt happen, but the world isnt perfect, people less so and people with any kind of power even less so. Any society that ignors this fact and the crushing evidence of history is at best going to be tyranical and at worst will fail with all the attendant chaos that would bring.

 

[SantoSubito]

There exactly is the problem, within at best a generation you have religious oppresion and sectarian vilonce and potentially centuries of bloodshed. I know all thats wrong and in a perfect world that wouldnt happen, but the world isnt perfect, people less so and people with any kind of power even less so. Any society that ignors this fact and the crushing evidence of history is at best going to be tyranical and at worst will fail with all the attendant chaos that would bring.

My comment was framed with the mindset that the theoretical country in question would already have a mostly homogeneous religious population (at least 95% of the populous being members of one church). Of course my idea wouldn't work in a country like the USA since we have too much religious diversity, but in medieval Europe a similar system worked well since the continent was almost 100% Catholic.

 

[_Centurion_]

My comment was framed with the mindset that the theoretical country in question would already have a mostly homogeneous religious population (at least 95% of the populous being members of one church). Of course my idea wouldn't work in a country like the USA since we have too much religious diversity, but in medieval Europe a similar system worked well since the continent was almost 100% Catholic.

Im not sure, and I dont have any numbers to hand, but I would doubt that such a state exists. To have 95% agreement on anything in a group that is not held in some in compelled to. That is to say I doubt 95% of ppl prefer something as superficial as coke, so to think that some thing as fundemental as spiritual belief without enforcement by a ruling body seem incredible to me.

I was going to mention earlier,something akin to tis point, when talking of the protocols, that america is the only country that allows all ethnicitys and religions. But I didnt wanna jump in and say thats flat out wrong, the UK, in fact thewhole of europe guarentees freedom of religion, and freedom from discrimination under te articles of human rights. This is not of course to say that this is unvivrsally adhered to with due dillegence. We have racism and religious intolerance, just as the united states and everywhere else has.

On Medieval europe, a christian goverment did not if you'll excuse me work well. The papacies where rife with flaws and divisions, there were many purges and blood letting of heretical believers and non believers, even when they could be said to working well they turned there perscutions outwards to the Jew or the islamic, or the whatnot the Inquistion is a period of great stabilty for the church. The flaw in the system almost inevitably leading to the reformation, the scars of which still weep bile into europe to this day.

The centuries of blood shed I reffered to that we struggled and payed an immense cost to free ourselves, from and the americans made sure never established itself.

I'll wait for rebuttal, there, but enfatically no.

 

[superdave5221]

The best and most efficient government is a kingdom, with a king who trully cares for his people, loves justice, and is above corrupting influences. That king would also have to know the will of God, and do it. He would have the best interests of his subjects at heart. As can be seen by the history of Israel as a kingdom, such kings are hard to come by.

Jesus is such a king. Not only does He love us, He was willing to die for us. And He has a perfect knowledge of the Father's will.

By the way, many people stress the love of Jesus for us, and of course that should be stressed. But many forget that He is also our king, and as such, is deserving of our obedience.