Reconciled

[Red33]

God has a plan to get us to grow up and to stop being children in our thinking and our emotions and being hurt by others all the time. Now what I am about to say it going to hurt some of you and some are going to accuse me of being unloving and unkind. To be hurt or wounded by others in the plan of God is an opportunity for me to get to know God's mercy and grace instead of living in the negative effects of what that hurt or wound has produced in my emotions. The longer I live in that negative effect the more negativity it produces taking me away from the faith that God has deposited in my heart. If I continue in that negativity and express it to others, I can infect them with a negative spirit that can hinder their capacity to respond and receive the love of God through grace. Don't let this kind of thing happen EVER!

The Holy Spirit does not react when we get wounded or hurt by others because he understands the greatness of God's perfect plan of getting us to grow up. As far as those that wound or offend us that are in the world and under the system of darkness to hinder the plan of God and the revelation of Jesus Christ and the gospel, God will deal with them though His own means and recompense of reward. I would say that this... all things are of God, all things are for our sakes and all things work together for the good who are called according to His purpose as the adults sons of the living God. We don't don't go out and look to be hurt or wounded but when it happens we can know the purpose for which God has ordained it for our life and that is to GROW UP!

 

[VW]

God is love.

Simple, plain, easy to understand, right? Wrong!

God is love, the simplest and most profound truth of all creation.

Love does not hold wrongs but it certainly does know wrongs committed against it, and is hurt by them.

If we believe that God does not know of our sufferings, that He is only using them to grow us into people without feelings, then we do not know the truth, that God is love.

 

[Red33]

I am not surprised that some, as yourself, do not understand these things that the Spirit searches out concerning the deep things of God. God wants His children to be edified and to grow up as adult sons (1Cor 2:10, Eph 4:15, Rom 8:14). Children are so easily hurt by words expressed to them but they all must grow up and come to a place of maturity so that they are not hurt by words but are rather reproved, corrected and instructed by them. The same applies concerning what we face in the details of life. These thing are put in our path to try our hearts and to see if we are going to walk by faith and trust God's promises or be occupied with the details that we are confronted with and what they produce in our emotions.

Are we going to find solutions in the grace of God with what we face or are we going to let these things effect us for the rest of our lives. The Spirit wants us to grow up and to have a sound mind and good emotions that respond to God and not these negative things. The Spirit leads us into the truth of the mind of Christ so that we can be occupied with His thoughts and not our own that result from negative emotions. The Spirit wants us to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded according to the dictates and the desires of the flesh. The Spirit wants us to know the specifics of God's will through a systematic approach of categorical doctrine so that we can think with God in every detail of life. Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus (Phil 2:5) is not just a passive statement but a mandate to be followed in the will of God.

 

[VW]

Jesus wept.

 

[pickles]

I have never stopped feeling pain when betrayed or misrepresented. Even yesterday, someone gave me a negative feedback because of something I posted, and it hurt. I suppose that it will always hurt, until I am gone from this life completely.

But something I know, in the deepest places of my heart; Jesus felt the same hurt! He was rejected by everyone! I truly believe that this was His most painful experience. The expression of the Father's love, rejected by the ones this love is for, over and over again.

When Jesus pronounced judgment against those who would not come to Him, who not only would not come to Him, but prevented others from coming to Him, it was not His judgment. No, it was His Father's judgment, because He was the one angry. Jesus felt these words in a way that those they were directed at could not imagine.

When we have His heart, the heart of Jesus, we are in the same manner, seeing the love of God, and knowing how it is rejected. And that breaks our hearts.

In His love,
vic

Amen VW.
It was my want to somehow bring peace to this.
I kept thinking that love would bring healing.
Sometimes one has to know in Jesus that we cannot change others, that this is His work, not ours.
I was taking the burden on myself, rather than giving it compleatly to Jesus.
I also had believed that all were acting because of injury, my actions and the others misunderstood.
Jesus showed me that some choose to do these things, and we cannot change them, only He can.
I no longer have any hurt or burden, and know only forgiveness without judgement.
These are the true fruits of giving all to Jesus.
I think the reason this affected me so was simply because it was someone very close to me and I love this person so much.
But as you said, Jesus knew the rejection of all whom He loves , He chose to take this all for our sake.
The great reconciliation.
All praie and Glory is His!
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[pickles]

God has a plan to get us to grow up and to stop being children in our thinking and our emotions and being hurt by others all the time. Now what I am about to say it going to hurt some of you and some are going to accuse me of being unloving and unkind. To be hurt or wounded by others in the plan of God is an opportunity for me to get to know God's mercy and grace instead of living in the negative effects of what that hurt or wound has produced in my emotions. The longer I live in that negative effect the more negativity it produces taking me away from the faith that God has deposited in my heart. If I continue in that negativity and express it to others, I can infect them with a negative spirit that can hinder their capacity to respond and receive the love of God through grace. Don't let this kind of thing happen EVER!

The Holy Spirit does not react when we get wounded or hurt by others because he understands the greatness of God's perfect plan of getting us to grow up. As far as those that wound or offend us that are in the world and under the system of darkness to hinder the plan of God and the revelation of Jesus Christ and the gospel, God will deal with them though His own means and recompense of reward. I would say that this... all things are of God, all things are for our sakes and all things work together for the good who are called according to His purpose as the adults sons of the living God. We don't don't go out and look to be hurt or wounded but when it happens we can know the purpose for which God has ordained it for our life and that is to GROW UP!

Red, you have a valid point here, without the insult.
But also,you made assumptions.
This involved a close family member, and the situation, when fully read, would give better understanding.
Scripture also speaks to correction with gentleness, I dont know if this was your intent, simply because I do not know your heart in this.
That is the crux of all we share and say to each other at this site.
If you read all of the scripture about Jesus the night before His suffering for us.
He walked back to the apostles, to see if any were awake in the garden, and spoke to His saddness that none were with Him in His sufferings and prayers the night before the crucifixion.

I struggled with this because of my love for the person in Jesus, and others injured, not because of my suffering alone.
I was looking to understand better the gift of reconciliation, and if I had any misunderstandings.
It is the witness of others that helped me to see the truth, and the peace in Jesus through His Holy Spirit that brought healing.
We witness and we learn in Jesus from each other as a body, if one cannot speak to the need, then how can they recieve the witness.
I know you spoke to a truth here, but remember that scripture also says to be careful not to place a greater understanding on the weaker or younger in faith as you can cause injury.
I would better receive your words if they had not been given with a word of insult.
Telling someone to grow up is on the insult level.
Just as I had to let go of the hurt in my situation.
I want to gently say, that if ones posts show frustration in ones words, that tells another that they speak from their own emotions of frustration, rather than the witness to the power and love we all seek in Jesus.
If we bring fear of insult or judgement to our posts, we then discourage those that seek to learn.
If I have unfairly judged you at all in this, please forgive me, but also, please consider the words written in the love of Jesus as well.
Yes, we must set aside our emotions born of the world, but we are called to accept a great emotion in Jesus for God Our Father.
One must Love the Lord thier God with all their mind, heart and streangth!
One must Love their neighbor as thier self.
Emotion is everything when we look to God Our Father and being obedient to Him in Jesus.
The OT is full of God Our Father's anger over the rejection of His word.
I understand the truth you speak to here, but take time to make sure that you know what you speak to as well.
Just as we are called to learn, we are told as how to teach.
So that we do not cause more strife in what we witness to.
It is easy to see how quickly, all can loose sight of Jesus, when we forget to witness as called to in Jesus.
Ill work on this too in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[Red33]

Red, you have a valid point here, without the insult.
But also,you made assumptions.
This involved a close family member, and the situation, when fully read, would give better understanding.
Scripture also speaks to correction with gentleness, I dont know if this was your intent, simply because I do not know your heart in this.
That is the crux of all we share and say to each other at this site.
If you read all of the scripture about Jesus the night before His suffering for us.
He walked back to the apostles, to see if any were awake in the garden, and spoke to His saddness that none were with Him in His sufferings and prayers the night before the crucifixion.

I struggled with this because of my love for the person in Jesus, and others injured, not because of my suffering alone.
I was looking to understand better the gift of reconciliation, and if I had any misunderstandings.
It is the witness of others that helped me to see the truth, and the peace in Jesus through His Holy Spirit that brought healing.
We witness and we learn in Jesus from each other as a body, if one cannot speak to the need, then how can they recieve the witness.
I know you spoke to a truth here, but remember that scripture also says to be careful not to place a greater understanding on the weaker or younger in faith as you can cause injury.
I would better receive your words if they had not been given with a word of insult.
Telling someone to grow up is on the insult level.
Just as I had to let go of the hurt in my situation.
I want to gently say, that if ones posts show frustration in ones words, that tells another that they speak from their own emotions of frustration, rather than the witness to the power and love we all seek in Jesus.
If we bring fear of insult or judgement to our posts, we then discourage those that seek to learn.
If I have unfairly judged you at all in this, please forgive me, but also, please consider the words written in the love of Jesus as well.
Yes, we must set aside our emotions born of the world, but we are called to accept a great emotion in Jesus for God Our Father.
One must Love the Lord thier God with all their mind, heart and streangth!
One must Love their neighbor as thier self.
Emotion is everything when we look to God Our Father and being obedient to Him in Jesus.
The OT is full of God Our Father's anger over the rejection of His word.
I understand the truth you speak to here, but take time to make sure that you know what you speak to as well.
Just as we are called to learn, we are told as how to teach.
So that we do not cause more strife in what we witness to.
It is easy to see how quickly, all can loose sight of Jesus, when we forget to witness as called to in Jesus.
Ill work on this too in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

I was being objective and direct and many do not like that. Tell me, is the instruction that we get from the word of God direct and objective or does God beat around the bush? Does God's word give us room to privately interpret and wrestle the scriptures to our own destruction or does that result from a rebellious heart that rejects the truth or the application of it to their own life? Why did many of Jesus' disciples get offended and follow Him no more when He told them that unless they ate His flesh and drank His blood they would have no life in them in (Jn 6:53-66)?

Our emotions can be very deceptive when we live by them. The emotions are simply an appreciator of what we think and not the evidence nor an indication of approval concerning the things of God. The just shall live by faith, not as a robot but with a willing and submissive heart that denies the flesh and the old sin nature and honors the word through the Spirit. When we have the joy of the Lord as our strength in (Neh 8:10) this joy is the fruit of the Holy Spirit that is in our heart because we are in right standing with God and we have fellowship with the Father and the Son.

Self preservations and our human emotions are Satan's greatest assets that he uses against the believer. When we preserve any self interest of the flesh (especially in family or friend relationships) and live in those emotional responses that come as a result of the plan of God, we are not living by faith and we give a place for Satan to hinder our walk and grieving the Spirit to keep the fruit of the Spirit from being active in our life. This is why we are take up our cross that has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Gal 5:24). The cross will always reveal that the flesh has been crucified so that we can be free from reactions of the flesh. Love can be hurt very easily by those we love, but those hurts should never quench that love (SofS 8:7).

 

[VW]

John gave a very good description of maturity for believers.

Knowing God.

 

[VW]

Some would want our growing up to become devoid of emotions. The truth about emotions is that they can and do rule us, causing us to feel and act according to them. But we must consider that love is also an emotion, and the fact that God is love. True Christian life is to be ruled, controlled even, by the love of God. If anyone thinks that this love will be dry and devoid of feelings, then they do not know His love at all. Love will feel pain and hurt and joy and fear.

Why would we want to become without emotions? That is not even scriptural.

 

[pickles]

I was being objective and direct and many do not like that. Tell me, is the instruction that we get from the word of God direct and objective or does God beat around the bush? Does God's word give us room to privately interpret and wrestle the scriptures to our own destruction or does that result from a rebellious heart that rejects the truth or the application of it to their own life? Why did many of Jesus' disciples get offended and follow Him no more when He told them that unless they ate His flesh and drank His blood they would have no life in them in (Jn 6:53-66)?

Our emotions can be very deceptive when we live by them. The emotions are simply an appreciator of what we think and not the evidence nor an indication of approval concerning the things of God. The just shall live by faith, not as a robot but with a willing and submissive heart that denies the flesh and the old sin nature and honors the word through the Spirit. When we have the joy of the Lord as our strength in (Neh 8:10) this joy is the fruit of the Holy Spirit that is in our heart because we are in right standing with God and we have fellowship with the Father and the Son.

Self preservations and our human emotions are Satan's greatest assets that he uses against the believer. When we preserve any self interest of the flesh (especially in family or friend relationships) and live in those emotional responses that come as a result of the plan of God, we are not living by faith and we give a place for Satan to hinder our walk and grieving the Spirit to keep the fruit of the Spirit from being active in our life. This is why we are take up our cross that has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Gal 5:24). The cross will always reveal that the flesh has been crucified so that we can be free from reactions of the flesh. Love can be hurt very easily by those we love, but those hurts should never quench that love (SofS 8:7).

Hi again red, Im going to try this one more time.
I do not disagree with the message you shared, only the delivery.
I was not offended by your post, simply because I agree about letting emotions rule one.
I simply felt the delivery could be better.
Many have been wounded by words at this site, simply because we forgot the true message in Jesus.
It was their defence I spoke to.
We could pull scripture for days and still both have scripture to support our posts, but that would be a waste, simply because it is the heart in Jesus that brings the message of truth, one knows words can be even more destrutive than emotions.
You basically spoke to milk vs meat in your post, I do agree in this, I simply wanted to share how one word can destroy the message.
Yes, Jesus did speak strongly at times, but He trully had the knowladge of how to and when.
Jesus also spoke with great love as well.
His reconciliation on the cross, is all about the love of God
I will also state again, there is no love lost in what I posted about, it was simply my wanting to bring healing.
I had to give all to Jesus, I had always believed love always brought healing.
Jesus helped me to see that it is in His love and care that healing comes.
Jesus healed my heart, and I trust Him the rest.
I could go into great detail and explain the whole situation in my defence, but honestly, there should be no need. The truth is, the exact answer I sought was given in another post.
Yes, I was hurt by the situation I spoke to, but it was the love in Jesus that brought more sorrow, simply because of those that the witness of Jesus was destroyed for, and the one that is choosing the path that can steal their salvation.
Red, I know the words you shared are with a true heart in Jesus, and your concern about one letting the earthly emotions steal their salvation. Ive learned this and still know these things will always try to trip us if we take our eyes off Jesus.
But in the last several months Ive also seen how a word, can change the tone in the message of a post, simply because one cannot see the eyes or know the heart of the other.
I just hoped you would understand what I was speaking to as well, as your hope was that those needing to, saw your words in Jesus also.
I will share one more word here, I had great sorrow in this situation, but remember as well, God is close to the broken hearted, He shares our sorrows. It is not wrong to be broken hearted, only wrong, like you said" if these emotions rule our faith in Jesus.
We might even dissagree about emotions, but we do agree on Jesus.
That is the word that matters.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[VW]

Hi Pickles,
In a way Red is correct about emotions, but there is one which we are to let control us, and that is the love of Christ. We cannot rule our emotions, we cannot change how we feel about things or circumstances or people. We can choose to or not to act on these feelings, but we cannot make them change or go away. This is not within our power. But God, who is in the business of redemning things, just as He redemns our lives and eventually even our flesh, can and will redemn our emotions.

Maturity comes in one way; growing closer to God through Jesus. It has always been this way, from the beginning. Some would have maturity be gaining knowledge, or long life or a host of other things, but maturity in Jesus comes from knowing the Father. It is why He came, and the reconciliation He worked is to this end. John speaks of this in his letter.

I am sorry beyond grief that the animosity which is directed towards me has made it's way into your sight.

In His most wonderful love,
Vic

 

[Red33]

If God were to lay out and expose our lives openly all at one time, just think of what we might see and what our response might be to what God reveals about what is in our heart, in our unconscious and subconscious mind and in the deep resources of our memory center. It would not be a pretty sight because it would involve things that we did not even know existed in these areas that make up who we are and how we think in relationship to the flesh, the old sin nature and everything that makes up a deceitful and desperately wicked heart and a sick head that is covered with bruise, wounds and putrefying sores and has no soundness.

Knowing of all these things that we were conceived in through the sin of Adam, Christ crucified all of it positionally and buried it never to be remembered anymore. That's what Christ did positionally for us as believers but experientially it is a whole other matter. To experience the new birth as a new creature in Christ, that we have been given and made to be by grace the moment we believed upon Christ and were saved, is a matter of taking up a personal cross in the plan of God. Many trials and testings make up this plan as God deals with us little by little revealing these areas that need to be taken to the cross and be crucified experientially.

It takes wisdom in the plan of God to create a work in us that takes what we have been given positionally, to make that become who we are experientially. We must cooperate with God's plan by faith and through taking up our cross for this to happen. This is what it means to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as we follow Christ. First we draw near and come to Christ by faith to be saved, forgiven and cleansed from all sin. Then we immediately take up or cross and draw near to Christ to follow Him where ever he made lead, but you can be sure that where He leads us is going to crucify our flesh experientially.

By this process through the plan of God and being lead by God we are crucified experientially so that Christ's life within can be released as a sweet savour unto God in them that are saved and also in them that perish (2Cor 2:15).

 

[VW]

God laid out and exposed my life all at once.

I died.

Anyone who has been born of the Spirit can enter into His presence, within the veil, and see this judgment for which Jesus died.

Very few do.

 

[Red33]

Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

No man can know how wicked and deceitful the heart is. Man can acknowledge what the scriptures testify as to the truth about the heart but man can't know the consummation of it. So many have tried to repent of everything they have done because of their wicked heart and there has always been something else that has come from the heart that they were not aware of. How many have actually taken the life of another and said, 'I didn't think I was capable of such an act' or 'I did not know that was in me'. This has been going on since the beginning of man and surely is without any improvement.

Mk 7:20-23
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Just that list alone (the first five being plural) involves so many areas of the heart and tongue concerning sin, sins of the mind and of the flesh, iniquity, transgression, not to mention the intrinsic and conspiratorial evil that cooperates with the kingdom of darkness, the angel of light and the mystery of iniquity. There is not a single individual recorded in scripture that God has revealed all their personal sin and wickedness to. He has revealed a portion of their sin and wickedness but not the extent and consummation of all of it. No man can know because God does not and has not revealed it and the greatest reason of all is that He has put away all sin through the sacrifice of His Son and because God is of purer eyes then to behold evil and look upon iniquity (Hab 1:13).

 

[VW]

Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

No man can know how wicked and deceitful the heart is. Man can acknowledge what the scriptures testify as to the truth about the heart but man can't know the consummation of it. So many have tried to repent of everything they have done because of their wicked heart and there has always been something else that has come from the heart that they were not aware of. How many have actually taken the life of another and said, 'I didn't think I was capable of such an act' or 'I did not know that was in me'. This has been going on since the beginning of man and surely is without any improvement.

Mk 7:20-23
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Just that list alone (the first five being plural) involves so many areas of the heart and tongue concerning sin, sins of the mind and of the flesh, iniquity, transgression, not to mention the intrinsic and conspiratorial evil that cooperates with the kingdom of darkness, the angel of light and the mystery of iniquity. There is not a single individual recorded in scripture that God has revealed all their personal sin and wickedness to. He has revealed a portion of their sin and wickedness but not the extent and consummation of all of it. No man can know because God does not and has not revealed it and the greatest reason of all is that He has put away all sin through the sacrifice of His Son and because God is of purer eyes then to behold evil and look upon iniquity (Hab 1:13).

Again, you speak of that which you do not know. You make an assumption, because you do not know of anyone who the truth of their state has been revealed to them by God, but you are wrong.

So, I will just leave you alone, in your ignorance. You do not know what you are talking about.

God put away sin from His eyes so we can know Him, personally. Excuse whatever you want to, you do not want to know Him, and so you make excuses to stay away. That is the only sin for which there is no forgiveness, because this sin is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

The faith which you profess distresses me greatly, because it is a faith and a doctrine which defeats the very purpose for Jesus' coming into the creation. It is the apostasy.

 

[Red33]

God spoke and revealed to the prophet Jeremiah the condition of the human heart and did not say that man could know how deceitful and wicked the heart is, but concluded 'who can know it'. The desperate condition of the human heart is not knowable nor has it been personally revealed to any man in the scriptures or otherwise at any time, and to think so is to go beyond the boundaries that God has set in what He reveals to man. If anyone has a problem with that then they have a problem with what God revealed to Jeremiah. Jeremiah was also never disqualified from his office as a prophet because he did not specifically know the depths of his own sin.

So, who can know the wickedness of their own heart, NO ONE. Who wants to know it anyways, that would be a very unwise thing for anyone to know. Knowing how wicked our heart can be does nothing to keep us from sin, GRACE DOES (Titus 2:11,12). There are plenty out there that love to search out iniquities (Ps 64:6,7) and they go deep and try to get to know the sins of others, but God will have His way with them.

 

[VW]

God spoke and revealed to the prophet Jeremiah the condition of the human heart and did not say that man could know how deceitful and wicked the heart is, but concluded 'who can know it'. The desperate condition of the human heart is not knowable nor has it been personally revealed to any man in the scriptures or otherwise at any time, and to think so is to go beyond the boundaries that God has set in what He reveals to man. If anyone has a problem with that then they have a problem with what God revealed to Jeremiah. Jeremiah was also never disqualified from his office as a prophet because he did not specifically know the depths of his own sin.

So, who can know the wickedness of their own heart, NO ONE. Who wants to know it anyways, that would be a very unwise thing for anyone to know. Knowing how wicked our heart can be does nothing to keep us from sin, GRACE DOES (Titus 2:11,12). There are plenty out there that love to search out iniquities (Ps 64:6,7) and they go deep and try to get to know the sins of others, but God will have His way with them.

Did Jeremiah have the Holy Spirit abiding in him?

To know God, you must know yourself. Why? Because when we approach Him, we are exposed, completely.

As far as to grace, you do not know what it is. You think it is knowledge from the word. It is not. Grace is contact with God. And believe it or not, when we spend time in His presence, we are changed to be like Him, from glory to glory.

You need to stop being afraid of entering His presence and draw near to Him through Jesus. Then you will know the state of your own heart.

 

[VW]

God spoke and revealed to the prophet Jeremiah the condition of the human heart and did not say that man could know how deceitful and wicked the heart is, but concluded 'who can know it'. The desperate condition of the human heart is not knowable nor has it been personally revealed to any man in the scriptures or otherwise at any time, and to think so is to go beyond the boundaries that God has set in what He reveals to man. If anyone has a problem with that then they have a problem with what God revealed to Jeremiah. Jeremiah was also never disqualified from his office as a prophet because he did not specifically know the depths of his own sin.

So, who can know the wickedness of their own heart, NO ONE. Who wants to know it anyways, that would be a very unwise thing for anyone to know. Knowing how wicked our heart can be does nothing to keep us from sin, GRACE DOES (Titus 2:11,12). There are plenty out there that love to search out iniquities (Ps 64:6,7) and they go deep and try to get to know the sins of others, but God will have His way with them.

Jesus revealed what was in the heart of man, even before He was crucified and raised from the dead.

Your error is that you equate knowing the condition of your heart with knowing in full, and have exchanged one for the other. We cannot know in full, but we can know ourselves, because God does not desire that we have even one bit of darkness left in us. A bride, clean and spotless without wrinkle or blemish or any such thing. And here is a simple truth for your mind: God who is light, illuminates darkness so that it is no longer dark.

I fear for you.

 

[pickles]

Jesus revealed what was in the heart of man, even before He was crucified and raised from the dead.

Your error is that you equate knowing the condition of your heart with knowing in full, and have exchanged one for the other. We cannot know in full, but we can know ourselves, because God does not desire that we have even one bit of darkness left in us. A bride, clean and spotless without wrinkle or blemish or any such thing. And here is a simple truth for your mind: God who is light, illuminates darkness so that it is no longer dark.

I fear for you.

VW, do not fear for Red, he loves and trusts in Jesus, and just as He cannot have full understanding of the words I spoke to, neither can you or I as to his.
Simply because the understanding is not ours, but the understanding set upon us in Jesus.
We only know the understanding set upon us by Jesus.
The fact He stands so strongly on this, is simply because Jesus wants to set this strongly on his heart for a reason. I know this as Jesus has shown me this as well.
It is the love of Jesus, not that which is worldly that Jesus showed me.
How many times have you tried to share yourself, frustrated that another cannot see.
I am learinng in Jesus that we who love and keep our eyes on Him have only the undestanding He has given us.
More often this is the witness, but sometimes we also knock heads as well.
This is why we must always remain humble of heart, otherwise if we keep debating we lose the truth.
Jesus has each of us where He desires, some are the witness of His Spirit, some the obedience,some meat eaters, some are His heart.
We all are a part of His body, serving as called to.
The funny part is, that my question in this thread was not about the sorrow, but exactly what does reconciliation cover?
Sometimes we are all speaking to the truth, but simply because we do not say it the same way, we tend to assume the other is not understanding.
What is amazing is, that more each day, I am learning that knowladge, understanding, works, how far one thinks they have come in faith, still amounts to squat, if one is not always humble before Jesus, living by the great commandment.
It trully is faith, hope and love that last, and only when all is given to Jesus.
Like Paul said about running the race, it is not that I have achieved the goal, but that always I am running towards it.
We cannot always agree about things, or make another understand, but we can know and rest in the promise.
That Jesus will make sure we do!
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[VW]

Hi pickles,

Blessings to you in His name, as I can see and hear that He has blessed you richly in His love.

Red does have an understanding, but he lacks the one essential ingredient necessary for growth in grace. I see this lack all over the church, not because I look for it, (I do not, because I look for peace with all people, the peace that comes from God's love,) and this lack is leading an entire generation of believers into great danger. The lack is an understanding of the truth of grace being found in the presence of God and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I am amazed at the thread you started here, reconciled. When we understand just what we are reconciled to, or rather Who we are reconciled to and how and most especially why, then we find the true purpose that has been set in Jesus from the beginning.

Red does not like what I say because I do not give enough emphasis to the scripture. To him, scripture is the basis of all that he believes, and nothing else is needed. But we know that reconciliation on one side does not make a relationship complete, and if one party does not come and enter into the relationship, then in truth reconciliation has failed. Reconcileation through Jesus is with and to the Father, and we are the ones needing reconciled.

But even more so, we are more than reconciled, we are adopted into His family, actually born in to His household, as His children in fact. Scripture did not do this, the Holy Spirit did this in us. This was the first act of grace that begin our salvation, and this the apostles sewed to, to deep a reward of deep and abiding grace from the Father through Jesus, by drawing near to Him.

I would not raise such a hue except it is important, even vital. I have not enjoyed not one moment of this disagreement between us. I am not confrontational in any way. But God has made this part of my task in this world, that some might grow in Him.

I know that it causes distress, to you and others. I am sorry for that, and if I must, for your heart, I will cease with this here.

In His love with the greatest respect and favor,
vic