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God Our Father predestined all of us to be with Him in Jesus.
It s just one can choose Jesus or refuse.
There are a few scriptures that speak to this well, Im a bit slow at remembering where to find them, but Ill try.
Many may debate this as well, and they are better able to pull upscripture for you.
May Jesus set His understanding on your heart through His Holy Spirit.
God bless.
pickles
It s just one can choose Jesus or refuse.
There are a few scriptures that speak to this well, Im a bit slow at remembering where to find them, but Ill try.
Many may debate this as well, and they are better able to pull upscripture for you.
May Jesus set His understanding on your heart through His Holy Spirit.
God bless.
pickles
I personally believe that predestination does exist only not within the context that we generally view it.
Yes there are certain things that are "predestined" for certain people. Moses was predestined to lead Israel out of Egypt. David was predestined to slay Goliath. Judas was predestined to betray Jesus.
That does not however exclude the existence of free will.
Jonah for example was commanded by God to go to Nineveh. Jonah said no. God said go. Jonah said no. God said go. Jonah said no. God said here fishy fishy. Jonah said: I'll go, just let me out of here.
When God has a specific plan for us He will have His way. For others it is a matter of choice.
I believe that the most important thing to keep in mind is that God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Yes there is such a thing as predestination. However in it's purest sense it makes us out to be robots or programed computers. I don't believe that God created us to be puppets.
God gave his creation free will. 1/3 of the angels chose Lucifer over God - eve chose to listen to the serpent rather than God.
I may be wrong here. I'm just one of the created and not the Creator who knows for sure.
We will all find out when we go home to be with our Lord.
Amen
Yes there are certain things that are "predestined" for certain people. Moses was predestined to lead Israel out of Egypt. David was predestined to slay Goliath. Judas was predestined to betray Jesus.
That does not however exclude the existence of free will.
Jonah for example was commanded by God to go to Nineveh. Jonah said no. God said go. Jonah said no. God said go. Jonah said no. God said here fishy fishy. Jonah said: I'll go, just let me out of here.
When God has a specific plan for us He will have His way. For others it is a matter of choice.
I believe that the most important thing to keep in mind is that God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Yes there is such a thing as predestination. However in it's purest sense it makes us out to be robots or programed computers. I don't believe that God created us to be puppets.
God gave his creation free will. 1/3 of the angels chose Lucifer over God - eve chose to listen to the serpent rather than God.
I may be wrong here. I'm just one of the created and not the Creator who knows for sure.
We will all find out when we go home to be with our Lord.
Amen
L
The best way I have had a chance to understand it is like this, I was asked if I had a child would I love the child. If the child got in a fight, would I love the child. If the child broke the law and went to prison, would I love the child. If the child screamed at me and said he hated me, would I love the child. That is but the beginning of what GOD puts up with HIS children and HE loves us still.
Isaiah 55: 8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.”
I found this and to me it says that just because I don't understand doesn't mean that I always will.
Romans 9:10-16 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that GOD's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with GOD, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on GOD who has mercy.
I have had the same questions for a time. I have found solace and comfort in these passages. I hope this helps. HE loves you and chose you, accept it even if you don't understand it.
Isaiah 55: 8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.”
I found this and to me it says that just because I don't understand doesn't mean that I always will.
Romans 9:10-16 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that GOD's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with GOD, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on GOD who has mercy.
I have had the same questions for a time. I have found solace and comfort in these passages. I hope this helps. HE loves you and chose you, accept it even if you don't understand it.
Predestination is the act of predestining, that is, in this context, God destining, or determining, the lives of men beforehand, that is, before their lives take place.
[Dokata07 wrote: Just wondering what everyone's views are on predestination. It seems like there is proof of it in the bible, but I have a hard time understanding how a God of love can create a person destined to go to hell before they are even born. Doesn't make sense.]
Although some people are predestined for hell, God is not to blame for their fate. Indeed, they have no one to blame but themselves. It is not as though people do not make their own choices; they do, and there are consequences for the choices they make. Even though God has predestined them for hell, he foreknew the choices they would make.
When you take God's foreknowledge into account, the problem of blame goes away. God has only predestined for hell those whom he also foreknew would not believe Him. This is not to say that God predestined them for hell on the basis of their not believing him, since that is not the case: he does so on the basis of election. But, nonetheless, those who are predestined for hell choose not to believe God of their own will, and are therefore responsible for not believing Him.
To sum up, yes, God does predestine people for Hell, but only those whom God foreknew would choose, of their own will, not to believe God. Thus, the blame is their own, not God's.
Now, is there still a part of this that doesn't quite seem to make sense? Yes. If God predestines a person for hell NOT on the basis of His foreknowledge that they would not believe Him, why is it that those whom God predestines for hell also happen to be the exact same people who do in fact end up not believing God?
In other words, we see an exact correlation between those people who do not believe God, and those people whom God predestines for hell, but scripture tells us that God does NOT predestine them for hell BECAUSE they do not believe Him. This is the part that doesn't seem to make sense. Correlation without causation.
That begs the question: Why DOES God predestine people for hell, if not because they don't believe Him (even though it is their not believing that actually results in them going to hell)? Well, it's according to His purpose, which is election.
So, what's the point of this whole election thing? We know that God desires that everyone be saved. So why does He elect only some? We know that He can and indeed does do whatever He wants. The answer is that yes, God is love, but He is also holy, and as such He hates sin. All have sinned, and were God to save everyone, His wrath would not be made known.
So, how can a God of love predestine people for hell? The short answer: sin. It is not God who sins, for God is holy. It is people who sin, and the wages of sin is death.
[Dokata07 wrote: Just wondering what everyone's views are on predestination. It seems like there is proof of it in the bible, but I have a hard time understanding how a God of love can create a person destined to go to hell before they are even born. Doesn't make sense.]
Although some people are predestined for hell, God is not to blame for their fate. Indeed, they have no one to blame but themselves. It is not as though people do not make their own choices; they do, and there are consequences for the choices they make. Even though God has predestined them for hell, he foreknew the choices they would make.
When you take God's foreknowledge into account, the problem of blame goes away. God has only predestined for hell those whom he also foreknew would not believe Him. This is not to say that God predestined them for hell on the basis of their not believing him, since that is not the case: he does so on the basis of election. But, nonetheless, those who are predestined for hell choose not to believe God of their own will, and are therefore responsible for not believing Him.
To sum up, yes, God does predestine people for Hell, but only those whom God foreknew would choose, of their own will, not to believe God. Thus, the blame is their own, not God's.
Now, is there still a part of this that doesn't quite seem to make sense? Yes. If God predestines a person for hell NOT on the basis of His foreknowledge that they would not believe Him, why is it that those whom God predestines for hell also happen to be the exact same people who do in fact end up not believing God?
In other words, we see an exact correlation between those people who do not believe God, and those people whom God predestines for hell, but scripture tells us that God does NOT predestine them for hell BECAUSE they do not believe Him. This is the part that doesn't seem to make sense. Correlation without causation.
That begs the question: Why DOES God predestine people for hell, if not because they don't believe Him (even though it is their not believing that actually results in them going to hell)? Well, it's according to His purpose, which is election.
So, what's the point of this whole election thing? We know that God desires that everyone be saved. So why does He elect only some? We know that He can and indeed does do whatever He wants. The answer is that yes, God is love, but He is also holy, and as such He hates sin. All have sinned, and were God to save everyone, His wrath would not be made known.
So, how can a God of love predestine people for hell? The short answer: sin. It is not God who sins, for God is holy. It is people who sin, and the wages of sin is death.
Also keep in mind that anyone CAN become one of God's elect by repenting of their sin and believing God. That option is always there, and, if we choose it, we won't end up being one of those predestined for hell.
From our perspective, this may seem to pose a sort of temporal/causal paradox: How can people choose to be one of God's elect, if it is in fact God who chooses them before they are even born? But that's only because our view is limited. God is eternal, and is not bound by the constraints of time.
This is a key point. This understanding of predestination and election is from GOD'S ETERNAL, OMNISCIENT perspective. If we attempt to apply this eternal perspective within the constraints of our own limited perspective to people and events we perceive, the result will only be error. Within the perspective of man, our choice to believe God or not is our own to make. God is not going to stop someone from believing him, if that is the choice they make. People stumble with this issue because they do not properly differentiate between God's absolute perspective and our limited one, but that distinction is real and essential.
From our perspective, this may seem to pose a sort of temporal/causal paradox: How can people choose to be one of God's elect, if it is in fact God who chooses them before they are even born? But that's only because our view is limited. God is eternal, and is not bound by the constraints of time.
This is a key point. This understanding of predestination and election is from GOD'S ETERNAL, OMNISCIENT perspective. If we attempt to apply this eternal perspective within the constraints of our own limited perspective to people and events we perceive, the result will only be error. Within the perspective of man, our choice to believe God or not is our own to make. God is not going to stop someone from believing him, if that is the choice they make. People stumble with this issue because they do not properly differentiate between God's absolute perspective and our limited one, but that distinction is real and essential.
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D
Greetings Dakota07,
I think that one would be hard-pressed to not believe in predestination given the numerous amounts of Scriptural verses that evidence predestination as a reality. All things belong to the providence of God, and it belongs to the providence of God to direct things toward their end. The end towards which created beings are directed by God are (2) fold:
1) One end exceeds all proportion and faculty of created nature; something transcending our ability/power to change. Ex. Creating something finite or infinite.
2) Another end is proportionate to created nature to which created beings can attain by the power of it's nature. Ex. decisions and choices that we make.
God predestines both ends in the sense that He sets up the laws governing both. In God there is order of all things toward an end, this would be the definition of 'Providence'. The definition of 'Predestination' would be the pre-existed direction of a rational creature towards an end, but not necessarily expunging an ability of choice in the respective creature. God does not create anyone to go to hell, that would assign to God's creative power the attribute of malice which is not found in God. God's grace is what determines one's salvation, plain and simple. You cannot have salvation without first having grace from the Most High. Now God chooses not to bestow grace to all, why, I don't know, but this does not make Him any less righteous due to the fact that He is under no obligation to bestow grace to ANY. Our own sin would be reason enough for the hindrance of grace being shed upon our person.
The execution of predestination is the "calling". {Romans 8:30}. The execution of this order is in a passive way in the predestined, but actively in God. Reprobation is when an individual fails to receive the grace of God entirely, this does not substantiate any claim emphasizing God's unrighteousness (see paragraph 2). Despite the many misconceptions, reprobation is not a foreign thing, it is quite natural. Reprobation does not take anything away from the power of the person reprobated. When people say that the reprobate cannot obtain grace it must not be understood as being absolutely impossible, but conditionally impossible. I hope this helps, sorry for the length my posts are usually shorter.
I think that one would be hard-pressed to not believe in predestination given the numerous amounts of Scriptural verses that evidence predestination as a reality. All things belong to the providence of God, and it belongs to the providence of God to direct things toward their end. The end towards which created beings are directed by God are (2) fold:
1) One end exceeds all proportion and faculty of created nature; something transcending our ability/power to change. Ex. Creating something finite or infinite.
2) Another end is proportionate to created nature to which created beings can attain by the power of it's nature. Ex. decisions and choices that we make.
God predestines both ends in the sense that He sets up the laws governing both. In God there is order of all things toward an end, this would be the definition of 'Providence'. The definition of 'Predestination' would be the pre-existed direction of a rational creature towards an end, but not necessarily expunging an ability of choice in the respective creature. God does not create anyone to go to hell, that would assign to God's creative power the attribute of malice which is not found in God. God's grace is what determines one's salvation, plain and simple. You cannot have salvation without first having grace from the Most High. Now God chooses not to bestow grace to all, why, I don't know, but this does not make Him any less righteous due to the fact that He is under no obligation to bestow grace to ANY. Our own sin would be reason enough for the hindrance of grace being shed upon our person.
The execution of predestination is the "calling". {Romans 8:30}. The execution of this order is in a passive way in the predestined, but actively in God. Reprobation is when an individual fails to receive the grace of God entirely, this does not substantiate any claim emphasizing God's unrighteousness (see paragraph 2). Despite the many misconceptions, reprobation is not a foreign thing, it is quite natural. Reprobation does not take anything away from the power of the person reprobated. When people say that the reprobate cannot obtain grace it must not be understood as being absolutely impossible, but conditionally impossible. I hope this helps, sorry for the length my posts are usually shorter.
J
I do not believe in Calvinistic Predestiation.
"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death," (Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, Sec. 5).
I believe in a biblical predestination. One of charachter, purpose, and plan. Not personal Identiy.
Eph 1:3-4
1 Cor 2:7
Rom 8:29-30
Acts 10
30 Cornelius answered: “Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32 Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.” 34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
1 Peter 1
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”[a]
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
2 Peter 3
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
The devil would have no enemy, if we are saved by Calvnistic predestination. Yet, we are told to be wary!
1 Peter 5:8
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Our eternal destiny, is based entirely upon our choices. It is our choice as to whether we end up in hell or not.
"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death," (Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, Sec. 5).
I believe in a biblical predestination. One of charachter, purpose, and plan. Not personal Identiy.
Eph 1:3-4
1 Cor 2:7
Rom 8:29-30
Acts 10
30 Cornelius answered: “Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32 Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.” 34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
1 Peter 1
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”[a]
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
2 Peter 3
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
The devil would have no enemy, if we are saved by Calvnistic predestination. Yet, we are told to be wary!
1 Peter 5:8
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Our eternal destiny, is based entirely upon our choices. It is our choice as to whether we end up in hell or not.
J
"He predetermined by KNOWING the end result of all men before they were even born. "
Knowing the end, does not necesitate determineing the end.
For example, God knows when we'll sin, how, why, and where.. That does not mean we are devoid of our choice.
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
If by knowing, God then determined the future. God would be the one at fault for your sins. Thus, no need for a savior.
Knowing the end, does not necesitate determineing the end.
For example, God knows when we'll sin, how, why, and where.. That does not mean we are devoid of our choice.
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
If by knowing, God then determined the future. God would be the one at fault for your sins. Thus, no need for a savior.
J
I am totally against Calvinist pre-destination. Going back to basics John 3:16. "For god so loved THE WORLD". It doesn't say that "For God so loved CERTAIN people". I don't see any proof in the bible that supports Calvinism all I see is people twisting scripture to support Calvinism. Also a big clue is that this belief system is named after a man... it gives John Calvin glory than rather Jesus Christ- a doctrine of men.
I chose to follow God. He didn't force me but predestined that he would send Christ to die for me so I could choose to follow him.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance- 2 Peter 3:9
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved- John 3:17
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe- 1 Timothy 4:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men- Titus 2:11
I chose to follow God. He didn't force me but predestined that he would send Christ to die for me so I could choose to follow him.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance- 2 Peter 3:9
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved- John 3:17
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe- 1 Timothy 4:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men- Titus 2:11
If God knew you were going to lead a rebellious sinful life, before you lived it, then who lived that life? Well you did. And whose choices were they that you lived out? Well yours. So whose fault would your sinful life be? Gods? NO, yours. So the descision is based on what? Well, based on YOUR choices.
Have you not heard it written, I declare the end at the beginning?
Your reply adds words i have not spoken. Your reply then does not fully understand Gods declaration. Free will is still a component, i never cancelled it out in GODS declaration...you did that for me, of which i never sanctioned.
Have you not heard it written, I declare the end at the beginning?
Your reply adds words i have not spoken. Your reply then does not fully understand Gods declaration. Free will is still a component, i never cancelled it out in GODS declaration...you did that for me, of which i never sanctioned.
F
I do believe in the biblical concept of predestination however, I don't agree with John Calvin's perspective. For the sake of peace, I won't go into that here.
Anyhow, I believe that God foreknew each and every one of us from the womb and that He created each of us with good intentions. What those intentions are, only He knows. I do not believe God desires anyone to go to hell however, I believe one can safely assume that God does indeed know from the moment of creation whether or not that soul will choose Him.
Now some may question why God would create them at all if He knows that person will choose hell over Himself and I can understand why someone would think that. However, seeing as I am but one man incapable of comprehending God's will in the matter, I trust that the positives must far exceed the negatives. Besides that, the bible states that God calls all men unto Himself. Whether or not they choose to answer that call is entirely up to them, ultimately the choice is theirs to make thus God Himself is exempt from blame.
Regardless, don't be afraid to put your complete trust in Him. He is soooo worthy!
Anyhow, I believe that God foreknew each and every one of us from the womb and that He created each of us with good intentions. What those intentions are, only He knows. I do not believe God desires anyone to go to hell however, I believe one can safely assume that God does indeed know from the moment of creation whether or not that soul will choose Him.
Now some may question why God would create them at all if He knows that person will choose hell over Himself and I can understand why someone would think that. However, seeing as I am but one man incapable of comprehending God's will in the matter, I trust that the positives must far exceed the negatives. Besides that, the bible states that God calls all men unto Himself. Whether or not they choose to answer that call is entirely up to them, ultimately the choice is theirs to make thus God Himself is exempt from blame.
Regardless, don't be afraid to put your complete trust in Him. He is soooo worthy!
Can someone tell me what Calvinistic predestination is? You see, i do not follow what men teach, nor will i in future. God gave us a command to seek and find for ourselves, so that is what i do....
If this Calvin formed some sort of doctrine out of Gods Word, it does not make it HIS concept (billions of men populate this planet after all, not to mention generations that have passed), nor if others have gleaned the same answer as he, or similar, does that make them followers of him 'Calvin'. Many of us were given brains for a reason, that is so others need not do the thinking for us. For when that happens, deception is not far behind. I have never heard of Calvin nor care to listen to these so called learned men. I listen to God.
It disturbs me greatly how all these preachers or whatever they are have whole doctrines named after them, who are these people? It is Gods Word after all, who gives them the right to lay claim to understandings therefore pigeon holing any who hold similar or likewise views or making us free thinkers in the spirit and all of a sudden their representatives in every aspect of doctrine ????? And then laying claim to Gods Word by having it named after themselves as though they were the writers of the scriptures ? This is so wrong to do (i realize others must have tagged Calvin's name to whatever he taught)...but there is the temptation from Satan to these people....make up a theory and maybe men will immortalize you by taking Gods Word and naming theories after you...WOW...big temptation for these lime lighters.
Again, just ignore these men that serve to confuse, read the bible yourselves with the Holy Spirit guiding. God wouldn't want you listening to them upsurping Him, but listen to Him upsurping them.
If this Calvin formed some sort of doctrine out of Gods Word, it does not make it HIS concept (billions of men populate this planet after all, not to mention generations that have passed), nor if others have gleaned the same answer as he, or similar, does that make them followers of him 'Calvin'. Many of us were given brains for a reason, that is so others need not do the thinking for us. For when that happens, deception is not far behind. I have never heard of Calvin nor care to listen to these so called learned men. I listen to God.
It disturbs me greatly how all these preachers or whatever they are have whole doctrines named after them, who are these people? It is Gods Word after all, who gives them the right to lay claim to understandings therefore pigeon holing any who hold similar or likewise views or making us free thinkers in the spirit and all of a sudden their representatives in every aspect of doctrine ????? And then laying claim to Gods Word by having it named after themselves as though they were the writers of the scriptures ? This is so wrong to do (i realize others must have tagged Calvin's name to whatever he taught)...but there is the temptation from Satan to these people....make up a theory and maybe men will immortalize you by taking Gods Word and naming theories after you...WOW...big temptation for these lime lighters.
Again, just ignore these men that serve to confuse, read the bible yourselves with the Holy Spirit guiding. God wouldn't want you listening to them upsurping Him, but listen to Him upsurping them.
Calvinistic predestination is just the idea that everything that happens, including every choice that people make and everything they do, is determined by God, according to his sovereign will and plan -- as opposed to the opposing Arminian view of free will, that people have free will and are able to make choices on their own apart from God's influence.
Calvinism is usually delineated according to the acrostic TULIP: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints (i.e. Eternal Security). The opposite view, Arminianism, consists of the five opposing viewpoints: Free Will, Conditional Election, Unlimited Atonement, Resistible Grace, and Conditional Security.
According to my understanding of scripture, Calvinism and Arminianism both get some things right and some things wrong: neither is in the truth.
Your approach is the correct one. Doctrines of men may at times be correct; and, just the same, they may at times be incorrect. Ultimately the authority rests in scripture.
Calvinism is usually delineated according to the acrostic TULIP: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints (i.e. Eternal Security). The opposite view, Arminianism, consists of the five opposing viewpoints: Free Will, Conditional Election, Unlimited Atonement, Resistible Grace, and Conditional Security.
According to my understanding of scripture, Calvinism and Arminianism both get some things right and some things wrong: neither is in the truth.
Your approach is the correct one. Doctrines of men may at times be correct; and, just the same, they may at times be incorrect. Ultimately the authority rests in scripture.
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