A CONTRADICTION NEEDING URGENT CONSIDERATION

[Devolution]

It is taught, when you are born again, you are assured salvation. Yes and no.

Yes
When you are born again, you ARE saved forever more and can never be cast aside..EVER.

No
If you are reading this, you are NOT born again...yet.

Instead of providing scripture to show what being born again actually means when God speaks of it, which myself and others have done before, for the outcome will just be bitter debate, i will provide scripture that speaks of something else. Something that proves that you are NOT born again, but instead, you are keeping yourselves in the HOPE of being born again.

But first, if you cannot bear the truth, then stop reading now. For you are not sincere, and no matter how much proof in scripture is provided, you will not accept it. In the words of one of the wisest sayings men have devised, it is spoken, For he who believes, no proof is necessary, but for he who does not, no amount of proof is possible. How true this saying is played out, day after day after day.

Let us look with open eyes and hearts before the Lord. I pray that i may, if possible, reach even one person, and if by some miracle i do, then this was worth every minute in it's writing. I will only offer but a few scriptures against this born again doctrine, for if even ONE verse of scripture speaks against it, just ONE verse, then it is FALSE. For God NEVER contradicts...NEVER. Let us begin.


1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

It is said, now you have believed on the Lord, and have given your life to the Lord, you are born of God, and you are now begotten unto salvation assured. You are born again.

FOR:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It is also said, now you are indeed born of God, you cannot sin. Your sins, it is said, are hidden in Christ, they are nailed to the cross of salvation, and you are assured life. Only come, be baptized, confess with your mouth and heart, that Jesus died for you and rose again, and you will be saved. For His burden is light. It is said. And since YOU can NOT sin, you MUST be assured SALVATION. Simple..It is said.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is again said, now that you are born again, that wicked one will flee from you, yes you, and you will trample him underfoot. Only come, be baptized, and trust on the Lord. It is said. And Satan can NEVER bother YOU again. It is said.

Lets visit pastor George, and listen in on his wonderful sermon, oh, he's already started, quick over here...SHHHH, oh, sorry maam, anyway folks, here we go..over to George..

And that is what the Lord spoke folks...You are born again brethren, give me an amen, (AMEN), Oh yeah brethren, You are begotten brethren, give me a Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD), You can not sin children, you heard it yourselves tonight people, straight from the good book, So give me a hallelujah, (HALLELUJAH), and what does it say? That that wicked one can not touch you, OH THE GLORY, give me a glory to the Lord, (GLORY TO THE LORD). Sniffle sniffle (crocodile tears) We all agree brothers and sisters, for it has been declared in the good book. Tonight, together, (looks at gold Rolex) at 8:35 you heard it here, THIS is the outcome for those of us born again, for YOU and ME brethren, praise the Lord, and what man can argue? Oh what the hay, i'm feeling good tonight, give me another Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD).

So there you have it folks, there is no fear now for you blessed children, my oh my i'm feeling the spirit tonight, you need not ever worry again my brothers, you need never doubt yourselves when you stumble sisters, for you can NOT sin. Let me say that again, YOU CAN NOT SIN. Therefore ladies and gentlemen, and might i say, you're looking mighty fine tonight, how about a round of applause for yourselves, i'm feeling the love, can you feel the love brothers and sisters? (clap clap, sob sob) , nothing you can do can jeopardize your salvation brothers, raise your hands, NOTHING my brethren, for whoever is born again, SINNETH NOT, we all read it together now didn't we friends? YOU CAN NOT SIN. YOU CAN NOT. You are BORN AGAIN. NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING, NOTHING. Born again brothers, means ETERNAL SALVATION ASSURED. YOU are assured.... The good book has spoken, I tell you sisters...

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou CONTINUE in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

WHAT THE???...Um, yes, er, YES you are born again my fellow saints, NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING....um, er, cough cough, moving on...(whispering) Carl, what the heck was that? Um, moving on people, Your sins are hidden in Christ, COME and we will show you His mercy, you can now never be unpleasing to our Lord...what a beautiful night it is folks...

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] DRAW back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Um, er, we seem to have a problem, can somebody find that person with the loudspeaker interrupting MY sermon...anyway, where was i, oh yes, um, er, YOU can never lose your salvation, YOU are BORRRRRRRN AGAIN, you are assured...ONCE YOU put YOUR hand to the plough brothers and sisters, COME, put your hand on the plough with me, and raise your hands children, because I AM telling you, YOU are BORRRRRRRRN AGAIN brothers and sisters, HALLELUJAH... you can never be cast aside ever ever again...And I AM telling you...

Luke 9:62
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God.

Um, darn it all, have you found that pesky rebel yet Arnie? Surely you've found him by now, i mean, the darn place shakes whenever he speaks, surely you've spotted that wolf by now?? COME ON, somebody knows where he is surely? You better tell me now people, someone is sitting next to him, speak up or you'll be sent STRAIGHT TO HELL...(whisper whisper) 'Oh pastor George, they can't be sent to hell, they're born again remember' Oh zip it Carl, I can send them anywhere I WANT...'Um, pastor George, the microphone....it's still on !!! OH, um, er, ha ha, um yes, er....just a little in joke people (sweating)....Ah it's okay folks, that's just Satan trying to mess with you's..my lips were moving, but I didn't say that...Satan is here messing with us brethren, one of YOU must be sinning brethren...Who welcomed Satan here tonight? Speak up NOW...


James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Oh darn it all, Carl grab the keys to the Mercedes and drive me home, and tell Linda she better have supper ready tonight...Um, George, Linda's back in Kentucky, it's Julie tonight remember? Oh, zip it Carl....

Just a bit of humor. Think about this please. When you are born again, that's it. You ARE SAVED ETERNALLY and CAN NOT SIN. The problem is, YOU are NOT born again YET. One is only born again when resurrected into SPIRIT. Anything else is FALSE. What of those scriptures above? This is speaking to BELIEVERS !! FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST...so simply put according to born again doctrine, only BORN AGAINERS are truly HIS. So then, those scriptures were for YOU then !!!! These are WARNINGS PEOPLE. WARNINGS that you CAN be CUT OFF. But being born again ASSURES you can NEVER be cut off !!! So we now have a problem. We are left with only two options, and two options only.

Either you ARE born again, and scripture is WRONG, or you have been led astray, and scripture remains intact, and you are in no way possibly born again YET. You can't have it both ways. You're either born again when resurrected, for THEN you have MADE IT, and NOW scripture makes sense and does not contradict, or you are born again NOW, and no matter what you do....ANYTHING AT ALL...maybe do something so bad, so vile, you get locked up for life or sentenced to death, but don't worry, you're born again remember !!! You can't sidestep your teachings when faced with truth of scripture folks, You are either born again and ASSURED no matter what.. OR you are deceived in doctrines of men. I mean really people?

Well, i guess it is up to you to decide...YOUR truth..or THE truth. I'm afraid it's as simple as that. I guess i'm the wolf again huh?

Oh well, Back to you George..... they're waiting....George?

 

[NoahsMom]

PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing DEVOLUTION, I enjoyed this!

 

[Devolution]

PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing DEVOLUTION, I enjoyed this!

My pleasure sister...LOL

 

[journey41]

Play it again Sam!

 

[Devolution]

Play it again Sam!

LOL, No Journey, it's play it again George...

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

1 Peter 1:22–23 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
--------
John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Colossians 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
--------
Romans 5:9–10 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.(The form of argument Paul uses here, the a fortiori, is quite impossible to get around.

The problem is you've massively misunderstood 1 John. But now that you've seen I disagree with you, I'm pretty sure you've psychologically padded your room to believe that it's for no other reason than that I "can't bear the truth" and "am not sincere"... so I won't bother spending time trying to untangle your knot, and I leave you to your safety cell. All the best.

 

[loveschild]

They'll be standing on the outside of the door wondering why they can't get in. Come on Lord let me in???? I only hate Susie, Karen, Timmy, my mom, Alex and yes I hate Henry too.

 

[zone]

It is taught, when you are born again, you are assured salvation. Yes and no.

Yes
When you are born again, you ARE saved forever more and can never be cast aside..EVER.

No
If you are reading this, you are NOT born again...yet.

Instead of providing scripture to show what being born again actually means when God speaks of it, which myself and others have done before, for the outcome will just be bitter debate, i will provide scripture that speaks of something else. Something that proves that you are NOT born again, but instead, you are keeping yourselves in the HOPE of being born again.

But first, if you cannot bear the truth, then stop reading now. For you are not sincere, and no matter how much proof in scripture is provided, you will not accept it. In the words of one of the wisest sayings men have devised, it is spoken, For he who believes, no proof is necessary, but for he who does not, no amount of proof is possible. How true this saying is played out, day after day after day.

Let us look with open eyes and hearts before the Lord. I pray that i may, if possible, reach even one person, and if by some miracle i do, then this was worth every minute in it's writing. I will only offer but a few scriptures against this born again doctrine, for if even ONE verse of scripture speaks against it, just ONE verse, then it is FALSE. For God NEVER contradicts...NEVER. Let us begin.


1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

It is said, now you have believed on the Lord, and have given your life to the Lord, you are born of God, and you are now begotten unto salvation assured. You are born again.

FOR:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It is also said, now you are indeed born of God, you cannot sin. Your sins, it is said, are hidden in Christ, they are nailed to the cross of salvation, and you are assured life. Only come, be baptized, confess with your mouth and heart, that Jesus died for you and rose again, and you will be saved. For His burden is light. It is said. And since YOU can NOT sin, you MUST be assured SALVATION. Simple..It is said.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is again said, now that you are born again, that wicked one will flee from you, yes you, and you will trample him underfoot. Only come, be baptized, and trust on the Lord. It is said. And Satan can NEVER bother YOU again. It is said.

Lets visit pastor George, and listen in on his wonderful sermon, oh, he's already started, quick over here...SHHHH, oh, sorry maam, anyway folks, here we go..over to George..

And that is what the Lord spoke folks...You are born again brethren, give me an amen, (AMEN), Oh yeah brethren, You are begotten brethren, give me a Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD), You can not sin children, you heard it yourselves tonight people, straight from the good book, So give me a hallelujah, (HALLELUJAH), and what does it say? That that wicked one can not touch you, OH THE GLORY, give me a glory to the Lord, (GLORY TO THE LORD). Sniffle sniffle (crocodile tears) We all agree brothers and sisters, for it has been declared in the good book. Tonight, together, (looks at gold Rolex) at 8:35 you heard it here, THIS is the outcome for those of us born again, for YOU and ME brethren, praise the Lord, and what man can argue? Oh what the hay, i'm feeling good tonight, give me another Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD).

So there you have it folks, there is no fear now for you blessed children, my oh my i'm feeling the spirit tonight, you need not ever worry again my brothers, you need never doubt yourselves when you stumble sisters, for you can NOT sin. Let me say that again, YOU CAN NOT SIN. Therefore ladies and gentlemen, and might i say, you're looking mighty fine tonight, how about a round of applause for yourselves, i'm feeling the love, can you feel the love brothers and sisters? (clap clap, sob sob) , nothing you can do can jeopardize your salvation brothers, raise your hands, NOTHING my brethren, for whoever is born again, SINNETH NOT, we all read it together now didn't we friends? YOU CAN NOT SIN. YOU CAN NOT. You are BORN AGAIN. NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING, NOTHING. Born again brothers, means ETERNAL SALVATION ASSURED. YOU are assured.... The good book has spoken, I tell you sisters...

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou CONTINUE in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

WHAT THE???...Um, yes, er, YES you are born again my fellow saints, NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING....um, er, cough cough, moving on...(whispering) Carl, what the heck was that? Um, moving on people, Your sins are hidden in Christ, COME and we will show you His mercy, you can now never be unpleasing to our Lord...what a beautiful night it is folks...

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] DRAW back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Um, er, we seem to have a problem, can somebody find that person with the loudspeaker interrupting MY sermon...anyway, where was i, oh yes, um, er, YOU can never lose your salvation, YOU are BORRRRRRRN AGAIN, you are assured...ONCE YOU put YOUR hand to the plough brothers and sisters, COME, put your hand on the plough with me, and raise your hands children, because I AM telling you, YOU are BORRRRRRRRN AGAIN brothers and sisters, HALLELUJAH... you can never be cast aside ever ever again...And I AM telling you...

Luke 9:62
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God.

Um, darn it all, have you found that pesky rebel yet Arnie? Surely you've found him by now, i mean, the darn place shakes whenever he speaks, surely you've spotted that wolf by now?? COME ON, somebody knows where he is surely? You better tell me now people, someone is sitting next to him, speak up or you'll be sent STRAIGHT TO HELL...(whisper whisper) 'Oh pastor George, they can't be sent to hell, they're born again remember' Oh zip it Carl, I can send them anywhere I WANT...'Um, pastor George, the microphone....it's still on !!! OH, um, er, ha ha, um yes, er....just a little in joke people (sweating)....Ah it's okay folks, that's just Satan trying to mess with you's..my lips were moving, but I didn't say that...Satan is here messing with us brethren, one of YOU must be sinning brethren...Who welcomed Satan here tonight? Speak up NOW...


James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Oh darn it all, Carl grab the keys to the Mercedes and drive me home, and tell Linda she better have supper ready tonight...Um, George, Linda's back in Kentucky, it's Julie tonight remember? Oh, zip it Carl....

Just a bit of humor. Think about this please. When you are born again, that's it. You ARE SAVED ETERNALLY and CAN NOT SIN. The problem is, YOU are NOT born again YET. One is only born again when resurrected into SPIRIT. Anything else is FALSE. What of those scriptures above? This is speaking to BELIEVERS !! FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST...so simply put according to born again doctrine, only BORN AGAINERS are truly HIS. So then, those scriptures were for YOU then !!!! These are WARNINGS PEOPLE. WARNINGS that you CAN be CUT OFF. But being born again ASSURES you can NEVER be cut off !!! So we now have a problem. We are left with only two options, and two options only.

Either you ARE born again, and scripture is WRONG, or you have been led astray, and scripture remains intact, and you are in no way possibly born again YET. You can't have it both ways. You're either born again when resurrected, for THEN you have MADE IT, and NOW scripture makes sense and does not contradict, or you are born again NOW, and no matter what you do....ANYTHING AT ALL...maybe do something so bad, so vile, you get locked up for life or sentenced to death, but don't worry, you're born again remember !!! You can't sidestep your teachings when faced with truth of scripture folks, You are either born again and ASSURED no matter what.. OR you are deceived in doctrines of men. I mean really people?

Well, i guess it is up to you to decide...YOUR truth..or THE truth. I'm afraid it's as simple as that. I guess i'm the wolf again huh?

Oh well, Back to you George..... they're waiting....George?

so you did all that work to refute assurance?

 

[NoahsDad]

i think he done a purdy good job.

 

[TDRI24]

WOW! twisting the bible to their own destruction?

 

[Glowing]

so you did all that work to refute assurance?

Its weird how some people get the total opposite of the point that is being made

The ONLY assurance that you or anybody else has, is to do your duty, when the time comes FOR ALL OF US; to have our OPPORTUNITY at Salvation.

Its also seems weird how some think they have the ability even Judge who they think is going to be saved and who will not.

You should try to get to know what your duty is; unless God forbid, you end up like those 18 who died at the tower of Silhom (calamity) And then having to teach you later what that duty was.

Thanks for the Great Post Devolution

Love and Peace To ALL in CHRIST!!!Forever!

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

Greetings Devolution,

Very insightful, thank you for the posting brother.

 

[zone]

Credo...

can't seem to get a quote of your post in here.
but AMEN to it.

 

[shawntc]

Eh... I wasn't able to understand your post after you introduced "Pastor George" due to the amount of humor/cynicism/sarcasm/whatever it was you added. Are you trying to say that either I'm incapable of sinning or not really saved because I still mess up and sin?

 

[tryingtofindhim]

It is taught, when you are born again, you are assured salvation. Yes and no.

Yes
When you are born again, you ARE saved forever more and can never be cast aside..EVER.

No
If you are reading this, you are NOT born again...yet.

Instead of providing scripture to show what being born again actually means when God speaks of it, which myself and others have done before, for the outcome will just be bitter debate, i will provide scripture that speaks of something else. Something that proves that you are NOT born again, but instead, you are keeping yourselves in the HOPE of being born again.

But first, if you cannot bear the truth, then stop reading now. For you are not sincere, and no matter how much proof in scripture is provided, you will not accept it. In the words of one of the wisest sayings men have devised, it is spoken, For he who believes, no proof is necessary, but for he who does not, no amount of proof is possible. How true this saying is played out, day after day after day.

Let us look with open eyes and hearts before the Lord. I pray that i may, if possible, reach even one person, and if by some miracle i do, then this was worth every minute in it's writing. I will only offer but a few scriptures against this born again doctrine, for if even ONE verse of scripture speaks against it, just ONE verse, then it is FALSE. For God NEVER contradicts...NEVER. Let us begin.


1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

It is said, now you have believed on the Lord, and have given your life to the Lord, you are born of God, and you are now begotten unto salvation assured. You are born again.

FOR:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It is also said, now you are indeed born of God, you cannot sin. Your sins, it is said, are hidden in Christ, they are nailed to the cross of salvation, and you are assured life. Only come, be baptized, confess with your mouth and heart, that Jesus died for you and rose again, and you will be saved. For His burden is light. It is said. And since YOU can NOT sin, you MUST be assured SALVATION. Simple..It is said.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is again said, now that you are born again, that wicked one will flee from you, yes you, and you will trample him underfoot. Only come, be baptized, and trust on the Lord. It is said. And Satan can NEVER bother YOU again. It is said.

Lets visit pastor George, and listen in on his wonderful sermon, oh, he's already started, quick over here...SHHHH, oh, sorry maam, anyway folks, here we go..over to George..

And that is what the Lord spoke folks...You are born again brethren, give me an amen, (AMEN), Oh yeah brethren, You are begotten brethren, give me a Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD), You can not sin children, you heard it yourselves tonight people, straight from the good book, So give me a hallelujah, (HALLELUJAH), and what does it say? That that wicked one can not touch you, OH THE GLORY, give me a glory to the Lord, (GLORY TO THE LORD). Sniffle sniffle (crocodile tears) We all agree brothers and sisters, for it has been declared in the good book. Tonight, together, (looks at gold Rolex) at 8:35 you heard it here, THIS is the outcome for those of us born again, for YOU and ME brethren, praise the Lord, and what man can argue? Oh what the hay, i'm feeling good tonight, give me another Praise the Lord, (PRAISE THE LORD).

So there you have it folks, there is no fear now for you blessed children, my oh my i'm feeling the spirit tonight, you need not ever worry again my brothers, you need never doubt yourselves when you stumble sisters, for you can NOT sin. Let me say that again, YOU CAN NOT SIN. Therefore ladies and gentlemen, and might i say, you're looking mighty fine tonight, how about a round of applause for yourselves, i'm feeling the love, can you feel the love brothers and sisters? (clap clap, sob sob) , nothing you can do can jeopardize your salvation brothers, raise your hands, NOTHING my brethren, for whoever is born again, SINNETH NOT, we all read it together now didn't we friends? YOU CAN NOT SIN. YOU CAN NOT. You are BORN AGAIN. NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING, NOTHING. Born again brothers, means ETERNAL SALVATION ASSURED. YOU are assured.... The good book has spoken, I tell you sisters...

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou CONTINUE in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

WHAT THE???...Um, yes, er, YES you are born again my fellow saints, NOTHING can take you away, NOTHING....um, er, cough cough, moving on...(whispering) Carl, what the heck was that? Um, moving on people, Your sins are hidden in Christ, COME and we will show you His mercy, you can now never be unpleasing to our Lord...what a beautiful night it is folks...

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] DRAW back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Um, er, we seem to have a problem, can somebody find that person with the loudspeaker interrupting MY sermon...anyway, where was i, oh yes, um, er, YOU can never lose your salvation, YOU are BORRRRRRRN AGAIN, you are assured...ONCE YOU put YOUR hand to the plough brothers and sisters, COME, put your hand on the plough with me, and raise your hands children, because I AM telling you, YOU are BORRRRRRRRN AGAIN brothers and sisters, HALLELUJAH... you can never be cast aside ever ever again...And I AM telling you...

Luke 9:62
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God.

Um, darn it all, have you found that pesky rebel yet Arnie? Surely you've found him by now, i mean, the darn place shakes whenever he speaks, surely you've spotted that wolf by now?? COME ON, somebody knows where he is surely? You better tell me now people, someone is sitting next to him, speak up or you'll be sent STRAIGHT TO HELL...(whisper whisper) 'Oh pastor George, they can't be sent to hell, they're born again remember' Oh zip it Carl, I can send them anywhere I WANT...'Um, pastor George, the microphone....it's still on !!! OH, um, er, ha ha, um yes, er....just a little in joke people (sweating)....Ah it's okay folks, that's just Satan trying to mess with you's..my lips were moving, but I didn't say that...Satan is here messing with us brethren, one of YOU must be sinning brethren...Who welcomed Satan here tonight? Speak up NOW...


James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Oh darn it all, Carl grab the keys to the Mercedes and drive me home, and tell Linda she better have supper ready tonight...Um, George, Linda's back in Kentucky, it's Julie tonight remember? Oh, zip it Carl....

Just a bit of humor. Think about this please. When you are born again, that's it. You ARE SAVED ETERNALLY and CAN NOT SIN. The problem is, YOU are NOT born again YET. One is only born again when resurrected into SPIRIT. Anything else is FALSE. What of those scriptures above? This is speaking to BELIEVERS !! FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST...so simply put according to born again doctrine, only BORN AGAINERS are truly HIS. So then, those scriptures were for YOU then !!!! These are WARNINGS PEOPLE. WARNINGS that you CAN be CUT OFF. But being born again ASSURES you can NEVER be cut off !!! So we now have a problem. We are left with only two options, and two options only.

Either you ARE born again, and scripture is WRONG, or you have been led astray, and scripture remains intact, and you are in no way possibly born again YET. You can't have it both ways. You're either born again when resurrected, for THEN you have MADE IT, and NOW scripture makes sense and does not contradict, or you are born again NOW, and no matter what you do....ANYTHING AT ALL...maybe do something so bad, so vile, you get locked up for life or sentenced to death, but don't worry, you're born again remember !!! You can't sidestep your teachings when faced with truth of scripture folks, You are either born again and ASSURED no matter what.. OR you are deceived in doctrines of men. I mean really people?

Well, i guess it is up to you to decide...YOUR truth..or THE truth. I'm afraid it's as simple as that. I guess i'm the wolf again huh?

Oh well, Back to you George..... they're waiting....George?

1 John 3:9 when you look up the original meaning when it says commit sin or continue to sin it means to habitually sin. If you are born again, you will not habitually do the same sins over and over
1 John 5:18- when it mentions not sinning again its talking about knowingly and habitually sinning

The rest of it I had a hard time following. All I have to say is a lot of time studying scripture is hard unless you search up the original meanings of all the words in the verse which takes time.

 

[mpaper345]

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again(John 3:3-7).


Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit,to be able to enter heaven.If you are born of water and the Spirit you are saved.



20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you(Luke 17:20-21).


When you have the Spirit,the kingdom of God is within you,and you are saved.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God(Romans 8:14-16).


If you are led of the Spirit you are a son of God,and a child of God,and are saved.


When we have the Spirit we are saved,but we have to continue on in that salvation,and make sure we do not slip.

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling(Philippians 2:12).

After we receive the Spirit,we have to work out our salvation,by making sure we stay right with God and do right,and make sure we allow the Spirit to lead us,and not go back to allowing the flesh to have it's way.

27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway(1 Corinthians 9:27).

Paul said if he did not keep his flesh in submission that he would be a castaway.


16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh(Galatians 5:16).


If we are led of the Spirit we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,and are saved,but we have to make sure we stay in the Spirit and not slip.


4Lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth(2 Timothy 3:4-6).


These people are people who say they follow the God of the Bible,but they deny the Spirit leading them,because they want their flesh to be in control of some things by sin,and are lovers of fleshy pleasures more than lovers of God,ever learning and never able to come to the truth that they have to abstain from fleshy pleasures.


As long as we allow the Spirit to lead us,the kingdom of God is within us,and we belong to the kingdom and are saved,but we have to make sure we do not go back to fleshy pleasures,for then we will be a castaway.
If you sin,repent,and allow the Spirit to lead you.

 

[contemplative]

Eh... I wasn't able to understand your post after you introduced "Pastor George" due to the amount of humor/cynicism/sarcasm/whatever it was you added. Are you trying to say that either I'm incapable of sinning or not really saved because I still mess up and sin?

That's the sense I got. Once you're born again you're done, so if you're not done, you're not born again. If you're reading this, as it says in the beginning, you're not born again. Apparently only the dead, who have no internet access, can be.

 

[VW]

Beloved, we are the children of God now. John wrote this. Jesus was talking to the people one day, and they claimed to be Abraham's children. Jesus refuted them, and said that they were of their father, the devil.

All who are born into this world are children of the devil. Adam gave us up. For this reason, we are dead to God, until we hear the voice of the Son of God and become alive to Him.

Some say that we do the works of God to become His children. But the truth is that we become His children and naturally do His works. This is the message John is giving in his letter.

 

[mit]

What Devolution is saying seems like getting on the bus or train to go where you already are which I think is meaningless (I say that in the most respectful, with the love of Christ and not intending to offend).

Being born again- John 3, which I prefer to use as opposed to the very controversial term saved, has to mean you are dying to something and being born into something. Otherwise, one doesn't need to be born again to the same self, WHAT FOR? I'm not trying to understand logically the things of faith for the carnal mind cannot fathom the spiritual but some simple explanations do have a place in eliminating confusion.

Sin, is the problem it is at our door always but the bible says we must master it/resist it Gen 4:7. Anyone saying they have no sin is a liar. This doesn't mean we have permission to continue sinning but to tighten our belts and run the race before us with courage and perseverance that whatever comes God will deliver us, he will uphold us, give us strength to overcome. Even when we seem to be pinned down or overcome, we should not lose hope that we will be delivered. A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor. The sea may be rougher for some, but in the end we have to hold on to the fact/faith that God's will will prevail and his will is that 'no soul should perish but that all should come to repentance'.

When they/we say we are saved we mean we are on the bus to God/heaven/whatever you/we/they may call it. Jesus/Holy Spirit is the driver not forgetting They/He is God. So the bus is called Immanuel and it is going everyday. We can say we have reached 'we are saved' since we have the master with us and the bus is sure to reach its destination and so are we, unless we chose to pop out, which we are free to do in which case we are then no longer saved. I won't give details of how one comes of the bus or whether they can be thrown out and don't overstretch the allegory. My point is on why we can say we are saved even before the day of Judgement/ the end.

The prophets of long ago (I picture Elijah, Elisha, Jeremiah, John the baptist, Hosea, Daniel etc), spoke and communed with God at levels which we may not know today neither have we experienced. Jesus said we will do greater things. Combining the previous two statements do you think the prophets would doubt their salvation or would be so assured of it that they would say they already had it. Then, should we be any less assured of ours. I don't think so.

Shalom.

 

[VW]

Born again is more than just a term we use to describe being Christian. In actual fact,'there are two ways to be saved, although both of them have Jesus as the pathway. (I can hear the cries of outrage even now, but still I must present this truth.) Jesus said that He is the resurrection and the life. These are not the same, but He is both of them all the same. He went on to describe two kinds of salvation. The first saying, "whosoever believes in Me shall live, even if he dies.". This is the salvation most often seen today, it is true salvation but leaves the believer in their current state, without victory over sin and the resulting death. The new birth is not acknowledged or received. It is a salvation waiting to be accomplished.

He described the second salvation thus: "He who lives and believes in Me shall never die." very different from the first circumstance. Here we see life from death, never to die again. The difference is in whether one is alive in Jesus, or waiting to be made alive in Him at some future date or event.

Jesus also in another place stated something about His having life in Himself, just as the Father does. He said that the hour is coming, and now is, (that means the hour has already arived,) when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and that those who hear shall live. Some would believe that this is in reference to the resurrection, but in the same discourse He states that the day is coming, (but He did not say it has come yet, and we know that this day has not come yet,) when all those who are in the grave will hear the voice of the Son of God and come forth to the resurrection. Those who have done good to a resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to a resurrection of judgment.

Jesus was raised from the dead. I died with Him, being crucified with Him and in Him. Nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. God works the same power in me that He demonstrated when He raised Jesus from the dead. And John writes so boldly saying; "Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God, and such we are. Beloved, now we are the children of God, and it does not het appear what we shall become, but we know that when He appears, we shall become just as He is."

And Paul writes that everyone who has the Spirit of God is a child of God. Wait.a minute, he wrote that everyone who is lead by the Spirit is the child of God. But how can one be lead by the Spirit unless they have the Spirit?

Well, it is written in too many places to go into more. Born again is a fact of grace. God bestows upon us the Holy Spirit, we are born of Him, made alive spiritually unto God,'reconciled to have and develops a relationship with Him. It os why Jesus came.

One way to salvation is rather iffy. The other is very sure. It has always been our choice.