lets talk about this( end times or?

[Red33]

Originally Posted by zone

go ahead graybeard.

lay out every scripture that says ancient Israel:

1) exists today
2) has any promise remaining to be fulfilled outside Jesus Christ
3) is the "timeclock" of prohecy.

take all the time you need.
i read every word.

then show me WHERE ancient israel is today.

show me what today's ancient israelites (wherever and whoever they are) TEACH and which god they believe in.

i'm not interested in debate. i'm interesting in you showing me WHO is Israel according to scripture.

Who is the Israel that Paul is referring to that they might be saved in (Rom 10:1-3)?

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[zone]

Originally Posted by Red33

Who is the Israel that Paul is referring to that they might be saved in (Rom 10:1-3)?

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

who is Paul referring to?

the Israelites of HIS DAY.
he was one of them, wasn't he?

didn't he shake his raiment and go to the gentiles? but NOPE. we want to IGNORE THAT PART.

and why does he say they were not coming to Christ (the righteousness of God we take hold of by Faith)? because they were : going about to establish their own righteousness

and what was his prayer?

that they would in the future dwell and rule from jerusalem?

or that they would submit themselves to the Righteousness of God, the Righteousness He imputes to the one who beleives in Christ.

many of them did, Red....the first disciples were Israelites. you of all people know The New Covenant is for Spiritual Israel (jew and gentile). at least i thought you did.

and many throughout the ages have become christians.

i just don't get why this is so hard to accept. brainwashing comes to mind.

[zone]

Originally Posted by Glowing

Puglia, Zone, Kathy, Get your Medication checked; SERIOUSLY

don't address me directly again glowing.

[zone]

Originally Posted by VW

Jesus will have a 1000 year reign on this earth. It will proceed immediately after His return as King of kings, and Lord of lords. During this reign, Satan will be bound for the same 1000 years..

according to the talmud and all modern corrupt bibles and bible teachers.

Originally Posted by VW

Israel will have a temple in Jerusalem during this 1000 years. They will follow the Law, and the sacrifices, and the prophecies of this are found in Ezekiel..

and God will be HAPPY about the blood of bulls and goats - that not only CAN NOT SAVE, but MOCK THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD.

Originally Posted by VW

Not much is said about what the bride will be doing during this time, except that she will reign and rule with Him for this 1000 years...

huh?
the church i a blip in the ultimate plan to bring the world back UNDER LAW? BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT JUDAISM DOESN'T TEACH MOSIAC LAW BUT MYSTERY BABYLON?

when will you EVER ADDRESS that?

and the church is hardly mentioned?

is the church (in glorified bodies) reigning with Jesus (in a Glorified Body) from NEW? OLD? Jerusalem, under Grace while the world is under Mosaic law sacrificing animals?

i need a bucket to get sick in. ANIMAL SACRIFICE???????????

Originally Posted by VW

At the end of the 1000 years comes the judgment, and the destruction of the old creation, the bringing in of the new heavens and the new earth, and New Jerusalem, the bride, will come down from heaven, from God....

huh?
wow.
search for john Hagee's chart that tries to visualize this mess.
good luck.

Originally Posted by VW

And so the creation will enter eternity, everything as God desires it to be.

ya right.
The Lord john and ezekiel and everyone who came into contact with and PASSED OUT FROM FEAR will BE HERE REIGNING and flesh men run around rebelling?

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Mat 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

[zone]

Originally Posted by zone

Protestantism
Amillennialism

Main article: Amillennialism

Amillennialism is common among some Mainline Protestant denominations such as the Lutheran, Reformed and Anglican churches. Many, but not all, partial preterists are amillennialists.

Amillennialism declined in Protestant circles with the rise of Postmillennialism and the resurgence of Premillennialism in the 18th and 19th centuries, but it has regained prominence in the West after World War II.

HELLO? does that time frame ring a bell?????

" The revolutions of the 18th and l9th centuries ushered in an era of constitutional democracies. Today's world citizens ... are starting to realize that unaccountable global institutions threaten their hard--won political freedoms. "-- Joel Bleifuss, In These Times magazine, September 2001, p1

Marxism


Marxism is the political practice and social theory based on the works of Karl Marx, a 19th century German philosopher, economist, journalist, and revolutionary, along with Friedrich Engels. Marx drew on Georg Hegel's philosophy, the political economy of Adam Smith, Ricardian economics, and 19th century French socialism to develop a critique of society which he claimed was both scientific and revolutionary. This critique achieved its most systematic (albeit unfinished) expression in his masterpiece, Capital: A Critique of Political Economy (Das Kapital).

Since Marx's death in 1883, various groups around the world have appealed to Marxism as the intellectual basis for their politics and policies, which can be dramatically different and conflicting. One of the first major splits occurred between the advocates of social democracy, who argued that the transition to socialism could occur within a democratic framework, and communists, who argued that the transition to a socialist society required a revolution. Social democracy emerged within the Social Democratic Party of Germany, and caused it to abandon its Marxist roots by increments, while communism resulted in the formation of various communist parties.

Some members of the laissez-faire and "individualist" schools believe the principles of modern bourgeois states or big governments can be understood as "Marxist". Marx and Engels's Communist Manifesto include a number of steps that they believed a society would experience as workers emancipated themselves from the capitalist system such as "Free education for all children in public schools": some of these appear to have been implemented in the form of Keynesianism, the welfare state, new liberalism, and other changes to the capitalist system in some capitalist states. Some individualists believe that reformers in the capitalist system are (or were) "secret Marxists" as they support policies that are similar to those steps Marx and Engels said a developed capitalist society would go through. Some other individualists in common with Marx's theory of historical materialism see the capitalist reforms as harbingers of the future coming of communism.

[zone]

The early 20th century progressives decided that they didn’t like the constitutional limits on government so they decided to change it.

One thing they did was to change the way the Supreme Court works.

Previously, when the SCOTUS would consider constitutional challenges, they would look not only to the actual wording of the Constitution, but also the background writings of the Founders to understand their intent. The court decision would then be based on what they learned from that research.
The socialist progressives realized that their agenda could never be realized as long as the SCOTUS depended on the wisdom of the Founders for their decision - that had to be changed.

They began characterizing the Founders as a group of senile old men whose creation represented only their time and grievances against the King of England. They coined the expression “a living document” with the intent of changing the Constitution to suit their wishes. The foundation of our country would be destroyed.

The new SCOTUS, instead of depending on constitutional writings, would now depend on “precedent” for their decisions. The folly in this is that it allowed a judge to interpret the Constitution in a way that he thought it should be, rather than the way it is. A decision based on this perverse thinking then becomes a precedent for the next decision which again distorts the intent of the Founders.

At the same time, they made the same changes in the universities and law schools. Rather than teach the Constitution and the thought processes behind it, they began teaching prior legal decisions which had little basis in the Constitution. All of those law books you see behind lawyers on TV are just full of such ill-begotten decisions.

By the mid-20th century, court decisions had become so corrupted from being based on prior distorted decisions that we now get court rulings that are in direct opposition to the Constitution. It then became accepted that any court ruling on a single case would become law across the country for all to respect and obey, regardless of the fact that lawmaking is the job of Congress, not the courts.

Court rulings must be made to apply only to the specific case at hand and the use of precedence must be abolished. Each case must be judged on its own merits and how they apply to the Constitution, not to previous cases. This is the problem we see in the courts today.

The Marxist progressives, over time, have succeeded in reducing the Constitution to little more than a fairy tale of dreamers long gone. Had the concepts inscribed in the Constitution been respected and obeyed by those in Congress, the White House, and the courts, we wouldn’t have 535 people today making a full time job of doing nothing but dreaming up new laws to limit our freedom and liberty.

[zone]

Jews & non-Jews: Dual Roles in Preparing the World for Moshiach

http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=231&Parent=88

Maimonides saw a divine purpose in Christianity and Islam. He wrote how both of these religions had brought the knowledge of G-d and the Messiah to distant isles so that there is now a universal familiarity with the concept of the messianic era

[zone]

Leviticus 4:3
"'If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the LORD a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed.

Leviticus 16:6
"Aaron is to offer the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household.

Leviticus 16:15
"He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull's blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it.

Luke 1:68
"Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come and has redeemed his people.

Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 9:19
When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people.

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence.

Hebrews 9:26
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 10:4
because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Hebrews 13:12
And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

1 Peter 1:18
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,

[VW]

[quote]

Originally Posted by zone

according to the talmud and all modern corrupt bibles and bible teachers.

And in the book of Revelations.

and God will be HAPPY about the blood of bulls and goats - that not only CAN NOT SAVE, but MOCK THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD.

God was never happy with the blood of animals.

huh?
the church i a blip in the ultimate plan to bring the world back UNDER LAW? BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT JUDAISM DOESN'T TEACH MOSIAC LAW BUT MYSTERY BABYLON?

I don't know where you are coming from. Very strange doctrine.

when will you EVER ADDRESS that?

Address what? I don't know what you are talking about.

and the church is hardly mentioned?

During the 1000 year reign, she is not mentioned at all.

is the church (in glorified bodies) reigning with Jesus (in a Glorified Body) from NEW? OLD? Jerusalem, under Grace while the world is under Mosaic law sacrificing animals?

I tend to think that we will be very busy.

i need a bucket to get sick in. ANIMAL SACRIFICE???????????

The animals do not belong to you. Get sick all you want to. Ezekiel will be fulfilled. It has not happened yet.

huh?
wow.
search for john Hagee's chart that tries to visualize this mess.
good luck.

I don't like John Hagee. You should know by now that I am not much for listening to preachers.

ya right.
The Lord john and ezekiel and everyone who came into contact with and PASSED OUT FROM FEAR will BE HERE REIGNING and flesh men run around rebelling?

Actually, there will be a rebellion after the thousand years are finished. Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released out from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Well, you get the picture. God kill them all with fire.

[Red33]

Originally Posted by zone

who is Paul referring to?

the Israelites of HIS DAY.
he was one of them, wasn't he?

didn't he shake his raiment and go to the gentiles? but NOPE. we want to IGNORE THAT PART.

and why does he say they were not coming to Christ (the righteousness of God we take hold of by Faith)? because they were : going about to establish their own righteousness

and what was his prayer?

that they would in the future dwell and rule from jerusalem?

or that they would submit themselves to the Righteousness of God, the Righteousness He imputes to the one who beleives in Christ.

many of them did, Red....the first disciples were Israelites. you of all people know The New Covenant is for Spiritual Israel (jew and gentile). at least i thought you did.

and many throughout the ages have become christians.

i just don't get why this is so hard to accept. brainwashing comes to mind.

Please, don't be like that, I am asking you a simple question. It seems to me that Paul was referring to all of Israel, which included those presently and also those that would still be in unbelief after he was gone. His prayer was that thy would be saved. A remnant would believe but his prayer was for all of Israel. He shakes his raiment and went to the Gentiles but he was called by God to do that from the beginning (Acts 2:15, Eph 3:1-8) which also included kings and the children of Israel. He had a zeal for his own people and at the end of his ministry he insisted to go to Jerusalem, where he was later put under house arrest.

God poured out His Spirit at Pentecost and many of the Jews believed as also the Gentiles. This began the inception of the church which was made of both Jew and Gentile and it took the word and the Spirit through the finished work of the cross to make it happen. Both have become one in Christ and it is still applicable today in the church and body of Christ. The remnant of the Jews that have been called are in the church and I am sure they have a zeal for their own people as Paul did.

Zone, what is the NT covenant that the church (or spiritual Israel) has been given that was made active through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Heb 9:15-26)? Briefly and in simplicity explain that covenant (testament) in contrast with the old covenant that was done away with in Christ as you understand it (2Cor 3:1-14). If you will, for my sake, explain why those who are Jews by birth (who are in unbelief) are not really Israel? If they are not Israel who do these people represent as a people? Did they come from Isaac or from some other lineage? If they are of Isaac are they not children of the promise that was given to Abraham? All the families of the earth are blessed through Abraham which would include those of Ishmael, but those of the promise must come through Isaac, who was born to Sara in her old age.

Please keep it simple and address what I am inquiring of you, if you would.

Thanks,
Redster

[zone]

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Acts 3:15
You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Hebrews 2:10
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

Hebrews 13:13
Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.

[zone]

ok....the posting is obviously messed up.
i had double what's here but i'm not going to go back and do it all again. i'll post what i have.
your comments didn't show properly either. sorry.

[quote=VW;384093]And in the book of Revelations..[quote]

no, according to false interpretation of Revelation


[quote=VW;384093]God was never happy with the blood of animals.[quote]

then why would He be happy with it soon to take place in Jerusalem?
or will He think its okay for the jews and "tribulations saints" on earth since the church got raptured?

He either approves of the Temple System or He doesn't.

[quote=VW;384093]I don't know where you are coming from. Very strange doctrine...[quote]

huh? you're going to act as though you've never heard of this doctrine? hard to believe VW.

[quote=VW;384093]Address what? I don't know what you are talking about....[quote]

any clue what the Pharisees taught?
are they teaching today?
where are they today?
does Jesus like them now?

you are a prophet - how come you don't know these things?

it's getting pretty late in the day VW.

[quote=VW;384093]During the 1000 year reign, she is not mentioned at all.....[quote]

isn't that rather odd? that the CHURCH HE BOUGHT WITH HIS BLOOD ISN'T MENTIONED DURING THE MYTHICAL 1,000 YEARS ON EARTH?

since the symbolic number 1,000 refers to Christ reigning and ruling NOW with the saints in Heaven, there's plenty of talk of the saints on earth.

tell me VW....when is this event? which clearly says there are saints alive at the Second Advent?

1 Thessalonians 4
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

and whose prayers are going up before God during the tribulation?
saints in Heaven? or saints on earth?
or is that that odd breed of tribulation saints that magically appears after the rapture?

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

here are people on earth discussed in Revelation....they believe in Jesus!

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

who are these saints who are told to have patience during the tribulation?

the 'tribulation saints" who got LEFT BEHIND? (tim lahaye is CFR, a change agent and involved in the rapture hoax - BUT hey! I'M JUST MAKING THIS UP FOR FUN)

Revelation 13:10
If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

and here are more saints on earth

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

and here we have slain saints in Heaven crying for God to avenge them. but what are they told? there are still brethren ON EARTH in the tribulation!

Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice,

[VW]

I really don't know what doctrine you are speaking of.

A false interpretation of Revelation? Where does that come from? I believe that the 1000 year reign of Jesus is coming when He returns with us from heaven. I believe that this is prophecy from scripture from both the old and the new testament. I believe that Israel will not be completely restored until the end of the 1000 years. And then to be attacked by all of those who are left of men to be deceived of the devil.

Because I believe these things does not mean that I believe in a pre trib rapture. I do not.

I am more along the lines of a later trib rapture. I believe that we must be present for the wedding supper of the Lamb, which is in heaven, before the Lord returns.

Every part of the prophets will be fulfilled. The lamb with lay down with the lion, and the child will play with the adder. The temple will be rebuilt, and there will be some very strange rites done there. It will happen.

Blessings in His love,
vic

[VW]

Oh yeah, I never read the "Left behind" series. Oddly enough, the Spirit would not let me, spoke specifically for me not to read them, even though I did not really care to read them any way. I find them and their result to be horrific.

[zone]

Originally Posted by Red33

Please, don't be like that, I am asking you a simple question. It seems to me that Paul was referring to all of Israel, which included those presently and also those that would still be in unbelief after he was gone. His prayer was that thy would be saved. A remnant would believe but his prayer was for all of Israel. He shakes his raiment and went to the Gentiles but he was called by God to do that from the beginning (Acts 2:15, Eph 3:1-8) which also included kings and the children of Israel. He had a zeal for his own people and at the end of his ministry he insisted to go to Jerusalem, where he was later put under house arrest.

God poured out His Spirit at Pentecost and many of the Jews believed as also the Gentiles. This began the inception of the church which was made of both Jew and Gentile and it took the word and the Spirit through the finished work of the cross to make it happen. Both have become one in Christ and it is still applicable today in the church and body of Christ. The remnant of the Jews that have been called are in the church and I am sure they have a zeal for their own people as Paul did.

Zone, what is the NT covenant that the church (or spiritual Israel) has been given that was made active through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Heb 9:15-26)? Briefly and in simplicity explain that covenant (testament) in contrast with the old covenant that was done away with in Christ as you understand it (2Cor 3:1-14). If you will, for my sake, explain why those who are Jews by birth (who are in unbelief) are not really Israel? If they are not Israel who do these people represent as a people? Did they come from Isaac or from some other lineage? If they are of Isaac are they not children of the promise that was given to Abraham? All the families of the earth are blessed through Abraham which would include those of Ishmael, but those of the promise must come through Isaac, who was born to Sara in her old age.

Please keep it simple and address what I am inquiring of you, if you would.

Thanks,
Redster

jews by birth?
modern Judaism claims lineage is through the mother.
Biblically it is through the father, right?

as for jews by birth: please Red. i'm really out of patience with the charade.

i already posted on the Khazarian Kingdom. anyone who has truly received the love of the truth will search for themselves. if they don't their blood is not on my hands.

search jewish sources if you prefer. this isn't NEWS. look at the jewish encyclopedia: Chazars. look anywhere. read Micahel Hoffman's Talmud exposes. you think God approves of this? IN ANY WAY?

gentiles (Khazars) converted to the RELIGION OF THE PHARISEES are God's chosen people? HUH?

why not a chinese individual who converts to Scientology? why isn't that person God's chosen? ITS THE SAME BLASPHEMY.

if they are not the lineage of the ancient israelites by birth (which the Ashkenasim are not), and they are pushing the religion of The Pharisees they represent the Synagogue of Satan. you either believe Jesus or you don't.

i'm so sick of this junk. and as Christians we HAVE NO EXCUSE. i'm done playing church with the chosen Khazars who want us DEAD.

the promised SEED through Isaac is SINGULAR. we who are children of the promise are so because we have believed in THE SEED, JESUS CHRIST.

cont....stupid cut-off thing

[zone]

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

so, we who receive THE PROMISED SEED (CHRIST) BY FAITH are children of the promise (jew and gentile)

Galatians 4:28-31
Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

come on Red. please HELP with this. you know what The Scriptures say.

NEW COVENANT. CHRIST.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

[zone]

Eschatology Charts

• 
  Millennial Views -- Chart Prepared by Mark Vander Pol
  
  (42K)

Riddleblog - Eschatology Charts

GO HERE AND LOOK FOR YOUR CURRENT MILLENNIAL MODEL.

could we discuss this please?

[zone]

Originally Posted by VW

I really don't know what doctrine you are speaking of.

A false interpretation of Revelation? Where does that come from? I believe that the 1000 year reign of Jesus is coming when He returns with us from heaven. I believe that this is prophecy from scripture from both the old and the new testament. I believe that Israel will not be completely restored until the end of the 1000 years. And then to be attacked by all of those who are left of men to be deceived of the devil.

VW: why would it take national Israel A THOUSAND YEARS TO BE CONVERTED? ESPECIALLY WITH JESUS CHRIST RIGHT HERE? what exactly would take so long to receive Christ BY FAITH WHEN HE'S VISIBLY HERE?

or, in your model do we enter YET ANOTHER COVENANT? what is it this time? back to Mosaic Law but under Grace/ how does it work exactly?

how long did you get in this lifetime to believe? how old are you? 964 years old? when did you believe?

or am i grasping your plan.....Jesus and the Church are in Heaven for a thousand years, and the jews need a thousand years to be "restored' : BY DOING WHAT? who is teaching them?

so....it takes a thousand years for the jews to grasp Christ and be saved (before he comes?) meanwhile the other people (who are they?) aren't attacking the jews for a thousand years while they are doing SOMETHING (?) which restores them. but a thousand years later the peole (?) then attack them? for what?

is that when Jesus and the Church "return"? what about these people, who are they? since you said you don't believe in Pretrib:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

the above happens at THE LAST TRUMPET.
the Second Advent....right?

so, after that there's a thousand years....then what? ALL THE TRUMPETS HAVE ALREADY BEEN BLOWN...haven't they? what signals the Third Coming?

Originally Posted by VW

Because I believe these things does not mean that I believe in a pre trib rapture. I do not.

I am more along the lines of a later trib rapture. I believe that we must be present for the wedding supper of the Lamb, which is in heaven, before the Lord returns.

COME ON VW.
pretrib, later trib.....please tell me when this happens in your later trib rapture model.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Originally Posted by VW

Every part of the prophets will be fulfilled. The lamb with lay down with the lion, and the child will play with the adder.

ya.
on the New Earth. in eternity. after Judgment.

Originally Posted by VW

The temple will be rebuilt, and there will be some very strange rites done there. It will happen..

it very likely may be, and strange fire indeed would be there.

so is that a GOOD THING?

this is what God wants?

SHOW ME.

You know evrybody He said You fools Know when summer is near In Love all The End I mean He siad that as Love Himself

[VW]

ya.
on the New Earth. in eternity. after Judgment.



it very likely may be, and strange fire indeed would be there.

so is that a GOOD THING?

this is what God wants?

SHOW ME.

Okay, I see where you are coming from.

I pass on showing you. I don't think it would work.

I don't plan on living on the new earth. I believe that I will live in New Jerusalem, which actually never comes all the way down to the new earth.

Have a great day.