lets talk about this( end times or?

[zone]

Originally Posted by VW

Okay, I see where you are coming from.

I pass on showing you. I don't think it would work.

I don't plan on living on the new earth. I believe that I will live in New Jerusalem, which actually never comes all the way down to the new earth..

this is what happens when you relegate Scripture to some place below personal revelation VW.

cont...

[zone]

Revelation 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
5And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem
9Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia.d Its length and width and height are equal. 17He also measured its wall, 144 cubitse by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. 18The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, clear as glass. 19The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

22And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

pretty hard for the people on the New Earth to come into and bring anything into the New Jerusalem if they're not in the same place, VW.

not going to look at the charts showing the different millennial models? i wanted to know which one you currently think is accurate.

[zone]

Originally Posted by VW

Okay, I see where you are coming from.

I pass on showing you. I don't think it would work.

I don't plan on living on the new earth. I believe that I will live in New Jerusalem, which actually never comes all the way down to the new earth.

Have a great day.

also, i asked you if God is going to approve of animal sacrifices etc going on in Jerusalem...either now or 1,000 years from now. you pass on telling me.

isn't it important to know?

[Devolution]

Hi Zone,

I've never heard what you're saying about the National Israelis before (about them not being true Israelis), that's a new one to me. Now i understand where you are coming from, and explains why we do not agree. Um, about the Daniel 70 weeks, i have never thought any different and always believed it has been fulfilled. So im not sure why you asked for an apology concerning it.

Anyway, there are two gatherings of National Israel by my understanding. The first was concluded in 1948. The second gathering occurs when Christ returns and cleans out National Jerusalem of all who don't belong and will bring in those who do and teach them truth. These are the last remnant for His promises sake. And the reason they are flesh is because they need to feed on the truth and learn the New Covenant to get that Holy Spirit grafted into them. That is the Spirit which is used to resurrect us: Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you. So this Spirit needs be present for us to be resurrected and changed. Those humans during the 1000 years who don't have this Spirit in them, well this is why they are in the flesh, to have this Spirit grafted into them and learn unhindered from Satan the oppressor.

So i gather 1948 has no meaning to you. There is scripture that explains something very peculiar indeed that certainly took place in 1948...and i saw a WAR docco that without them realizing, unknowingly made it possible to understand the curious part of that certain scripture that deals with flight during the time of this gathering..are you interested to at least hear it?

Regards
Devolution.

Anybody tired of the cut and paste deal?

[zone]

Originally Posted by Devolution

Hi Zone,

I've never heard what you're saying about the National Israelis before (about them not being true Israelis), that's a new one to me. Now i understand where you are coming from, and explains why we do not agree. Um, about the Daniel 70 weeks, i have never thought any different and always believed it has been fulfilled. So im not sure why you asked for an apology concerning it.

Anyway, there are two gatherings of National Israel by my understanding. The first was concluded in 1948. The second gathering occurs when Christ returns and cleans out National Jerusalem of all who don't belong and will bring in those who do and teach them truth. These are the last remnant for His promises sake. And the reason they are flesh is because they need to feed on the truth and learn the New Covenant to get that Holy Spirit grafted into them. That is the Spirit which is used to resurrect us: Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you. So this Spirit needs be present for us to be resurrected and changed. Those humans during the 1000 years who don't have this Spirit in them, well this is why they are in the flesh, to have this Spirit grafted into them and learn unhindered from Satan the oppressor.

So i gather 1948 has no meaning to you. There is scripture that explains something very peculiar indeed that certainly took place in 1948...and i saw a WAR docco that without them realizing, unknowingly made it possible to understand the curious part of that certain scripture that deals with flight during the time of this gathering..are you interested to at least hear it?

Regards
Devolution.

i'll talk to you about it if you can identify the Synagogue of Satan: is it where " i am coming from?" or did Jesus suggest we understand?

Revelation 2:9
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you

so, you didn't know about th Synagogue of Satan, i doubt you've looked to confirm for yourself, yet you "understand' where i am "coming from" and that's why "we" diasgree?

if you disagree, its' with Jesus Christ. not me...i didn't write the above. if i hadn't READ IT AND CARED WHAT IT MEANT i'd still be in the dark like you.

1948 signalled something. but you don't know what it is.

zone.

[zone]

Originally Posted by DanuckInUSA

Anybody tired of the cut and paste deal?

do you mean:

1) it isn't functioning properly
or
2) too much text for people to be bothered with

[VW]

Originally Posted by zone

also, i asked you if God is going to approve of animal sacrifices etc going on in Jerusalem...either now or 1,000 years from now. you pass on telling me.

isn't it important to know?

I did tell you. You didn't believe that I have the right interpretation of Ezekiel.

Actually, I believe that the prophecies of Ezekiel are the least understood of all the prophets.

[VW]

Originally Posted by zone

this is what happens when you relegate Scripture to some place below personal revelation VW.

cont...

That doesn't have anything to do with anything.

And that is a gross misstatement of what I believe.

[endofallfears]

I think when reading Revelation, we should make the assumption that John is writing exactly what he sees and hears. We observe that John often does not understand what he is observing, so he does the only reasonable thing; he asks (or is told the meaning straightway).

The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches. (Rev 1:20)

But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.” (Rev 5:5)

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev 7:13-14)

1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. (Rev 11:1)

[Devolution]

[quote=zone;384189]i'll talk to you about it if you can identify the Synagogue of Satan: is it where " i am coming from?" or did Jesus suggest we understand?

Revelation 2:9

[endofallfears]

I write the above because I feel in interpreting text, the safest way is to assume the Scripture means exactly what is says, unless there is an indication of allegory, symbolism, hyperbole,...etc. Where there is symbolism and the like, their meaning is either given, or can be found in other areas of Scripture (such as Rev 6 and Matt 24)

[Devolution]

Zone,

There is no need to get personal, i will respond to your questions.

You quoted Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty (but thou art rich) and i know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Also 3:9.

Who was Christ addressing? Was it not the Christian churches in Turkey? (besides its future relevancy) And is a man a Jew outwardly only, or inwardly too? And if this statement is true, that a Jew is any who embrace Christ, then becoming adopted, then would it not stand to reason that He is addressing those slanderers in the churches? These churches which were set up by those CHRISTIANS fleeing persecution from Rome?

Or have you not read of the "Christian" Nicolaitanes 2:6 ? These would no doubt slander any not following their doctrine, nor suffer questioning of their ways without rebuttal. Or those "Christians" who hold onto Balaam also v14 ? Im sure they would slander the more devout ! Or what of the luke warm Christians v15 ? They would hate any warnings from any man, surely these too would slander any who dares correct them? Notice most of these churches followers are not up to standard? Would these not slander the more devout followers as we see happening even today? For the devout followers would, as is their duty, warn these other types as is only right, and what would you suppose the outcome of their warnings would result in? Slander maybe? Cries of, " Don't judge me, i am saved", perhaps ?

And what of this world hatred for the Jews which grows monthly, not to mention what is growing worse even now amongst her allies? Does this not follow scripture concerning the curse? Or has God cursed the wrong people now? Was He also fooled by this conspiracy? Maybe somebody should tell Him? And what do you suppose this holocaust was all about? Did God again get it wrong? And if what you say is so, why do the Arabs still hate the Jews? Wouldn't this be a universal in-joke amongst them?

Tell me, is this understanding from your personal revelation, or have you read it somewhere and embraced it? Could you tell me please after addressing some of the points above with scripture. What you preach as truth needs be declared of its origins. Are the origins yours or another's Zone? Reveal your source please so we may know also.

Regards
Devolution.

[Devolution]

Oh and Zone,

When you have answered my questions, i must point out that you still haven't answered concerning those future prophecies in Zechariah but instead seem to have forgotten all together. Please do not slander me again when reading them, instead, just answer them please. Because i wonder how these fit in with your understanding? Because frankly, they don't.

This is just a friendly reminder not to forget to answer those also.

Regards
Devolution.

[Scotth1960]

Originally Posted by DXT

The cannon of Scripture is closed Katy. The end has been decreed. Ed can't possibly be one of the witnesses of Revelation 11 for numerous reasons. Read the book of Revelation. You need to discern this.

IT IS BETTER NOT TO READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION. The events of our day have not changed the fact that THIS IS A SEALED BOOK THAT NO MAN CAN OPEN. It is not yet THE TIME for the things IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION to BE REVEALED. THE BOOK CONTAINS A STERN WARNING AGAINST MISINTERPRETING THIS BOOK, REVELATION. SO WE SHOULD REALIZE THAT SOME OF THE BOOK REMAINS UNREADABLE/UNKNOWABLE/UNINTERPRETABLE. MANY HAVE TRIED TO ANALYZE EVERY VERSE IN THIS BOOK AND HAVE FAILED. ONLY SOME VERSES ARE CLEARLY REVEALED IN HISTORY, AS IN THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST 6-6-6 ADDING UP TO NERON CAESAR (EMPEROR NERO) IN HISTORY. IN ERIE PA Scott R. Harrington

[zone]

Originally Posted by VW

I did tell you. You didn't believe that I have the right interpretation of Ezekiel.

Actually, I believe that the prophecies of Ezekiel are the least understood of all the prophets.

Ezekiel 40
Vision of the New Temple
1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was struck down, on that very day, the hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me to the city.a 2 In visions of God he brought me to the land of Israel, and set me down on a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south. 3 When he brought me there, behold, there was a man whose appearance was like bronze, with a linen cord and a measuring reed in his hand. And he was standing in the gateway. 4 And the man said to me, “Son of man, look with your eyes, and hear with your ears, and set your heart upon all that I shall show you, for you were brought here in order that I might show it to you. Declare all that you see to the house of Israel.”

Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

SAME VISION
two epochs
The New Jerusalem (ETERNITY) progressively revealed.

now what?

[zone]

Originally Posted by endofallfears

I write the above because I feel in interpreting text, the safest way is to assume the Scripture means exactly what is says, unless there is an indication of allegory, symbolism, hyperbole,...etc. Where there is symbolism and the like, their meaning is either given, or can be found in other areas of Scripture (such as Rev 6 and Matt 24)

exactly endof.

[zone]

Originally Posted by Devolution

Zone,

There is no need to get personal, i will respond to your questions.

You quoted Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty (but thou art rich) and i know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Also 3:9.

Who was Christ addressing? Was it not the Christian churches in Turkey? (besides its future relevancy)

i'm asking you about TODAY.
you want prophecies to unfold, but you want to decide which ones.

are there people today who claim to be the Biblical Hebrews but are not, YES OR NO.

until you answer that forget the rest.

Originally Posted by Devolution

And is a man a Jew outwardly only, or inwardly too? And if this statement is true, that a Jew is any who embrace Christ, then becoming adopted, then would it not stand to reason that He is addressing those slanderers in the churches? These churches which were set up by those CHRISTIANS fleeing persecution from Rome?

i am not interested in yor REASON.
do you have the guts to examine The Talmud? yes or no. it's simple.

Originally Posted by Devolution

Or have you not read of the "Christian" Nicolaitanes 2:6 ? These would no doubt slander any not following their doctrine, nor suffer questioning of their ways without rebuttal. Or those "Christians" who hold onto Balaam also v14 ? Im sure they would slander the more devout ! Or what of the luke warm Christians v15 ? They would hate any warnings from any man, surely these too would slander any who dares correct them?

let me guess. you're out to correct me.
when you come around and see the truth, don't worry, i won't expect an apology (that's your gig)

have you done ANY research yet? or are you still CORRECTING?

any idea what the strong delusion is? do you think there will be any coming out of it?

Lord, Lord.....did we not.....

Originally Posted by Devolution

Notice most of these churches followers are not up to standard? Would these not slander the more devout followers as we see happening even today?

For the devout followers would, as is their duty, warn these other types as is only right, and what would you suppose the outcome of their warnings would result in? Slander maybe? Cries of, " Don't judge me, i am saved", perhaps ?

oh....you mean YOU?
so devout. and so persecuted for your correct doctrine.

i bet i know what books are on your bookshelf (GASP! maybe i'm a prophet)

Originally Posted by Devolution

And what of this world hatred for the Jews which grows monthly, not to mention what is growing worse even now amongst her allies? Does this not follow scripture concerning the curse? Or has God cursed the wrong people now? Was He also fooled by this conspiracy? Maybe somebody should tell Him? And what do you suppose this holocaust was all about? Did God again get it wrong? And if what you say is so, why do the Arabs still hate the Jews? Wouldn't this be a universal in-joke amongst them?

aren't you supposed to be transformed by the renewing of your mind?
do you have ANY CLUE WHATSOEVER what's really going on?

you're still typing, and you haven't even looked.

you know why?

you're hedging your bets, you are fearful, and you've got so much invested in what you've already done, getting humble and starting from the beginning and admitting you just MIGHT have been deceived is more than you are willing to do.

so don't talk to me about LUKEWARM.

and keep your despicable antisemitic label. throw it in the trash where it belongs. i'm not playing that game.

THIS IS ABOUT DOCTRINE.

do you know what the Leaven of the Pharisees is? or is that not politically correct to talk about?

do you think they disappeared? did you know the Sanhedrin reappeared in 2004 after 1600 years?

tell me Devo - did Jesus call the SANHEDRIN back into session?

Originally Posted by Devolution

Tell me, is this understanding from your personal revelation, or have you read it somewhere and embraced it? Could you tell me please after addressing some of the points above with scripture. What you preach as truth needs be declared of its origins. Are the origins yours or another's Zone? Reveal your source please so we may know also.

Originally Posted by Devolution

Regards
Devolution.

you're so in love with your own stuff you haven't been paying attention.
i've laid out EVERY SINGLE SOURCE a Christian needs to see the truth ON THE GROUND TODAY.

do some homework then we'll talk.

[zone]

Originally Posted by Devolution

Oh and Zone,

When you have answered my questions, i must point out that you still haven't answered concerning those future prophecies in Zechariah but instead seem to have forgotten all together. Please do not slander me again when reading them, instead, just answer them please. Because i wonder how these fit in with your understanding? Because frankly, they don't.

This is just a friendly reminder not to forget to answer those also.

Regards
Devolution.

according to you?

show me Zechariah's NT witness please.
be specific.

and have you addressed the Synagogue of Satan yet? or are you fearful?

tell me Devo....who is this? IF YOU RIGHTLY IDENTIFY HER, we have something to talk about. if you don't, you're spinning your wheels and wasting your time.

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

[Devolution]

Scotth 1960,

If the book of revelation is sealed, then please explain this:

Rev 5
1: And i saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside sealed with seven seals.
This book is sealed yes.
5: ....Weep not, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed, to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
After Jesus ascension, HE opened this book that His Father held, that was sealed.
And what happened to this book next?

Rev 10:1-2
It was given to an angel, and in v2 this book is opened.
And what happened to this opened little book?

Rev 10:10
And i (John) took the little book (of revelation) out of the angels hand....

And what was John commanded?

Rev 10:11
Thou must prophecy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

And how did John achieve this? By writing it down !! He wrote down the OPENED little book of revelation.
So you see, you err in saying it is sealed. It is not sealed but OPEN. And what does Christ say concerning this little book?

Rev 22:7
Behold, I come quickly, blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

For one to keep the sayings of the prophecies of this book, one needs first understand what he is keeping. And since this book is opened, this book can be understood. So what you have claimed is not what Christ is telling us.

Regards
Devolution.