Scriptures refuting the doctrine of eternal security

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Jan 8, 2009
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#1
A nice list of scriptures here to refute the idea of eternal security thanks to the following
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/once-saved-always-saved/

Topical organization of scriptures that refute “Eternal Security”
1 Parable of sower
• Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13) “And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away.


2 Fallen from grace passage: • Galatians 5:4 “You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”

This verse alone disproves eternal security fairly well, because if you can fall from grace, it means you had grace to begin with. Unless OSAS believers want to try and explain how a person can fall from grace with Christ being of no effect, and yet still be saved? If we can be saved while fallen from grace, then why need grace in the first place?






3 Pruning passages:
• John 15:5-6 “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
• Romans 11:19-23 “You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.”

4 Hebrews Passages:
• Hebrews 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.
• Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.”
• Hebrews 10:38-39 “But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.”

5 Doctrinal Apostasy passages:
• Acts 20:17,28-30 “And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church.” … “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.”
• 1 Timothy 1:18-21 “fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are HYMENAEUS and Alexander”
• 2 Timothy 2:16-18 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are HYMENAEUS and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.
• 1 Timothy 4:1 “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons”
• 1 Timothy 6:20-21 “O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”-which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.”
• 2 Peter 2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.”
• 2 Peter 3:17 “You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness”
• 2 John 8-9 “Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.”

6 Moral Apostasy passages:
• 1 Timothy 6:9-10 “But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.”
• 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”"
• James 5:19-20 “My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins.”

7 Revelation passages:
• Revelation 2:4-5 “‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. ‘Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent.”
• Revelation 3:5 “‘He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.
• Revelation 3:16-17 ‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked”

8 Old Testament passages
• Ezekiel 18:24-26 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? “When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die.”


I personally don't agree with all of these but it's a good starting point:


REASONS WHY ETERNAL SECURITY IS FALSE
It cheapens Gods estimate of sin
It is not taught in scripture
It renders all exhortations to holiness to be irrelevant
It must “explain away” the vast majority of scripture
It encourages sinful living and false assurance
It results in false conversions that weaken the true church
It is the most destructive and deceptive lie of Satan

TWENTY LIES NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE
1. Once saved always saved.
2. Christians are no different than other sinners, except they are saved.
3. God cannot see the Christians sin because they are covered by the blood of Christ.
4. We can be filthy as a barnyard in body and still be saved and holy in spirit.
5. We all sin in word, thought and deed, every moment and every day.
6. All who have ever fallen away were never saved in the first place.
7. That when one comes to Christ, their sins are paid for past, present and future.
8. You can only lose fellowship with God and not salvation.
9. God would never disown or **** one of His own children.
10. A sheep cannot become a goat.
11. If we sin we only lose fellowship and not relationship with God.
12. Salvation is unconditional.
13. If salvation cannot be earned it cannot be lost.
14. God will not begin a work that he will not finish.
15. Repentance is not required for salvation.
16. Christians who say we must remain faithful to stay saved preach a works salvation.
17. We can be “Sinning Saints” or “Backslidden Christians” and still be saved.
18. Only at death can we ultimately be saved from sin.
19. Christians are still sinners.
20. I am secure because Jesus paid my sin debt in full.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#2
So, we have plenty of scriptures showing believers apostasing, shipwrecking their faith, falling in love with the world, shrinking back to destruction, not to mention the people trying to savage the flock, draw the disciples away from their faith.. and yet OSAS believers still claim that true believers can't do these things?

Now why would satan try to sidetrack a christian's faith, if their faith was so secure in the first place? Why are there warnings against deception unless that deception had consequences?

There is no scripture which says something like, "Don't worry about being deceived, you are always saved anyway". There is no scripture which says "Don't worry about satan, you are always saved and can never lose faith".

Why in the Lord's Prayer does it say something like "lead us not into temptation, but keep us safe from the Evil One". Why would we need to pray that if OSAS was true?
 
K

KingdomGeneration

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#3
Mahogany, I agree with you and respect what you are doing however, if there's one thing I've noticed about folks who believe in OSAS it is this. People who believe in it seem to have been "brainwashed" (for lack of a better, more gentle word) into believing this doctrine. Where as those who do not believe in OSAS, most likely never had an opinion either way in the first place, until after being exposed to OSAS and seeing the fault in it.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#4
Thankyou KingdomGeneration , I'm not sure about the brainwashing, we all learn what we are taught and it's hard to change our mind. Well I grew up not believing OSAS, then believing it, then I am back to not believing it again. If we are too afraid of losing salvation that it is upsetting us and making us stumble that we have to believe in OSAS, then by all means believe in it. That's why I used to believe in it.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

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#5
Personally, I think both camps do have a point. I think there are a lot of people involved in church who seemed to be involved for all the wrong reasons (religious pride, personal ambition, prosperity, etc.). The modern church in general, regardless of denomination, seem to be infested with them which is why I believe the "church" (at least what man considers to be "church") looks no different from the world.

I would agree that, for those who are involved who possess wrong motives, when one of these people fall away after not receiving what it is they were expecting, there is a very strong possibility that they were never truly saved in the first place.

On the same token, I know people who have been involved with church for years who, after facing a very difficult situation or a combination of difficult situations (adultery / divorce, the loss of a dear loved one, etc.), lose faith and fall away. A lot of these people possessed very good fruit for a lot of years and are responsible for leading many to Christ themselves. The sad thing is, usually after someone like this finds themselves in a backslidden state, often times their bitterness is so deep that they go to their grave without ever repenting.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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And that's precisely the issue I'm addressing. This idea of "they weren't a true christian in the first place" is absurd. I mean it's possible, but we can't know that, only God dos. True christian, false christian, half a christian, how can we know? It's a round-about way of looking at things, just because people aren't willing to admit that Christians are in fact able to turn back . Peter, John, James etc didn't know Judas was going to betray Christ. Judas probably didn't even know himself until the very night. Peter didn't even know he was going to deny Christ three times. This makes me a little scared, but at the same time, it causes us to trust in God for salvation even more.
 
A

Abing

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#7
Thanks Mahogany :)
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
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#8
Quote; 'Now why would satan try to sidetrack a christian's faith, if their faith was so secure in the first place'?

For the same reason that he thought he could ascend his throne above the stars of God and be like the Most High (Is 14). That was pretty presumptuous of Satan to think he could be like the Most High, that is why presumption is the great transgression (Psalm 19:13). The same reason he tried to overthrow Job, an upright man with integrity,but failed. Job's friends tried to do the same thing with Job as you are trying to do here with believers. God was not well pleased with their wisdom and counsel and made them go to Job to pray for them;

Job 42:8 'Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job'.

Quote; ' If we are too afraid of losing salvation that it is upsetting us and making us stumble that we have to believe in OSAS, then by all means believe in it. That's why I used to believe in it.'

This is not an issue of believing this and believing that. You were tossed back and forth because you do not understand the nature of God and have never become sure of His work on the cross. You have not been built up, rooted and grounded in the love of God that reveals through the Holy Spirit that God will never, no never, no never leave you or forsake you. You are insecure about the nature of God and you are the one who has a fear of failing and having some kind of sin in your walk that will displease God and make you lose your salvation. You may not want that but that which you have feared has come upon you (Job 3:25). You have never understood God's justification for sin and you fear that others will get away with sin and go to heaven. You need to let the love of God cast out your fear the same way Abraham cast out the bond woman. We are not our sin. It is not I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me (Rom 7:17,20). Until that fear is completely gone, you will live in human viewpoint as a natural man concerning the grace of God and live in fear instead of hope.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#9
I really think OSAS believers are so insecure and fearful about the possibility of losing salvation that they have to believe in a doctrine that says they can never ever lose salvation, and even to the extent of saying that those who don't believe in it are somehow wrong. But healthy fear is a good thing. If we don't have a little bit of fear about losing our salvation, shows that we perhaps haven't grasped how precious and valuable is the salvation we have. This fear drives us to have faith in God's love even more.

I was reading 2 Peter this morning actually, that confirmed even more to me that OSAS is not right. Because it talks about believers who forsaken the right way and gone astray. These it says, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. It talks about people escaped the pollutions of the world through knowing Jesus but then again entangled by them. I know what the scriptures say BLC
 
L

LynnJ

Guest
#10
While I agree with your viewpoint and Scriptures that back it up, MahoganySnail, I also agree with MerryHeart's assessment that you are being a bit offensive in your approach. When approaching those who doctrine differs from your own, it is always a good idea to remember what Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy: "And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." (2 Tim. 2:24-26, NIV)
 
Apr 13, 2007
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#11
Amen Merry! I couldn't agree more, and each person differs...I also agree that MahogonySnail has been very offensive to many members on here...numerous times...I just didn't say anything before, because if you do, then you get chewed out and everything. It just leads to personal attacks and arguments, and I figure why get into that when you don't have to? We don't have to defend ourselves, our beliefs, or anything else to anyone, only worry about what the Lord says about us, He knows our heart, our ''status'' with Him, our walk, and relationship with Him....as do we know it, and that's all that matters over all! Thanks for speaking up Merry! God bless!

Oh also, a side note, I think some people(no one specific) needs to read the story of the Lost Son in Luke 15:11-24 it's a great reminder that just because someone may turn their back on and walk away from God, He never turns His back on or walks away from us. That if we will just turn from our wicked ways, seek His face, and return to Him, He's waiting there with open arms for us! Just like when Jesus died on the cross, His arms were spread apart, they were open...as His blood ran down His side, face, and whole body for us. Anyways, yeah I agree completely with you Merry.

Oh also, as far as the part about ''healthy fear is a good thing'' there's truth in that, we are to serve God with fear, that being what may happen if we don't listen to Him. For example, we could miss out on some great blessings, or even lose spiritual gifts and thing like that. Also think about it, Jesus said His grace is sufficient for us, if that weren't true, then yeah you could lose salvation, however, His words are true, and therefore, since His grace is sufficient, we can't lose our salvation. If we could, it would defeat the purpose in Jesus dying for us, and He would have to die all over again, every single time someone went astray, backslid, or whatever you want to call it.
 
L

LynnJ

Guest
#12
An opponent is one who simply takes an opposite position than someone else (dictionary definition). I was just saying that your doctrine opposes the doctrine that MahoganySnail was presenting, which is all an opponent does.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#13
Sorry guys,

For the record, my comment "really think OSAS believers are so insecure and fearful about the possibility of losing salvation " was not an attack but an observation based on my own personal experience, as I said in previous message:

"If we are too afraid of losing salvation that it is upsetting us and making us stumble that we have to believe in OSAS, then by all means believe in it. That's why I used to believe in it."

I don't really care which belief you hold to, OSAS or not. But I don't like it if OSAS is spread about as if it is the only and right doctrine when I know there are so many scriptures to show otherwise.

If that is very offensive I hope you are also picking up BLC for this:

You are insecure about the nature of God and you are the one who has a fear of failing and having some kind of sin in your walk that will displease God and make you lose your salvation.


You may not want that but that which you have feared has come upon you (Job 3:25). You have never understood God's justification for sin and you fear that others will get away with sin and go to heaven. You need to let the love of God cast out your fear the same way Abraham cast out the bond woman. We are not our sin. It is not I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me (Rom 7:17,20). Until that fear is completely gone, you will live in human viewpoint as a natural man concerning the grace of God and live in fear instead of hope.

Contrary to this belief about fear, there is no fear when we doing the right thing, when our conscience does not condemn us. I don't have any fear. I just don't ignore the possibilities.

Stand_up if I have been "very offensive to many members" as you claim, I have received no indication of it whatsoever, until now of course ;).
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#14
Thankyou Lynn your comments are appreciated I will try to be more gentle in my approach.

For the record I don't consider OSAS or non-OSAS to be going to hell over this issue. We're all christian as far as I'm concerned. Although at times I have been told basically I'm in danger of hellfire for not believing OSAS, but I forgive them.
 
R

roaringkitten

Guest
#15
Mahogony, I find it very offensive that you would go on a rampage here on CC, declaring to Christians that they can be lost again to hell. You twist Scripture/ take it out of context to try and justify your hatred towards eternal security. Not once have you attempted to reconcile your posted Scriptures to the rest of the Word(comparing it to verses like Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc)...

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:6

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28

Eternal life is a PRESENT possession for those who believe on the Lord. If they had eternal life one moment, then lost it, then God would be a liar and eternal life is not really what it was said to be. But God cannot lie(Titus 1:2). No one who hates eternal security can reconclie these sort of passages with their view of salvation. Neither do haters of eternal security EVER use these passages to build their case. And when people ask you how one can be "unborn" again(one physical birth-cannot be undone; one spiritual birth-cannot be undone), you and other haters of eternal security wont respond to this question directly and cannot ever come up with a valid refute because there is NONE!

My Savior completely saves. If all Christians could be lost again to hell, then Christ wasted his time on the cross. Because that would mean his sacrafice was not sufficient enough. Dont beat around the bush. Unrepentant sin IS bad works. Unrepentant sin is ANY and ALL sin a person commits who have not repented of it by its very definition. Your position is that one must be perfect to get into heaven. In other words, as a Christian, every sin makes them lost to hell the second they sin until they repent of it. Your arguments are unfounded to the Word of God.

I feel you are attacking the core of Christianity by your rampage on the threads. You are firm on your beliefs and nothing anyone says will persuade you because you've elected self-righteousness over the righteousness of God(Romans 10:3-4). Do not come on CC and attack my Savior. You will give an account before Him one day for every word you spoke.....And that goes for me and everyone else too!

This may sound harse, and if it is so, sorry, but you are crossing the line here.....
 
Jan 31, 2009
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TWENTY LIES NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE


14. God will not begin a work that he will not finish.

I would be very fearful to make a statement like this, about an Almighty God who loves me.

Php 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good WORK IN YOU will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 
Jan 8, 2009
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roaringkitten all I was doing was posting the other view. Because I know you have had plenty of opportunity to promote OSAS and your views, on your own " little rampage" if you like brother. I don't hate eternal security, I actually used to believe in it. In fact I do partly believe in it. There is a lot of truth in it. But that doesn't mean I can't post scriptures to show where it could be lacking. I personally think the truth is somewhere in between the two viewpoints.

Eternal life is present, I agree. But it is also future. Got to get through this life first.

My position is indeed that we must be perfect to get to heaven. It makes no sense that imperfect can get into heaven. But it is Christ's perfection that makes us perfect not ourself.

In other words, as a Christian, every sin makes them lost to hell the second they sin until they repent of it.
I have said time and time again, it is not our perfection or lack of that stops us getting into heaven, sins are covered by the blood of Christ.. but lack of faith.

I feel you are attacking the core of Christianity by your rampage on the threads. You are firm on your beliefs and nothing anyone says will persuade you because you've elected self-righteousness over the righteousness of God(Romans 10:3-4). Do not come on CC and attack my Savior. You will give an account before Him one day for every word you spoke.....And that goes for me and everyone else too!
Sorry but my beliefs in Scripture are firm, the very scriptures I've been posting. I'm not attacking your Savior, gee mate.. I actually believe in your Savior, he's my Savior too. Also, I was actually corrected in another thread that it is every idle word we speak, not every word, we give account for. Or something like that. Anyway, I think you've overreached yourself a bit there. But peace bro, my intention is not to argue with you, but it's not fair if you think only your view is the right one when OSAS belief really has only been around since Calvin as far as I'm aware. And even then many great bible men and preachers haven't believed in it, like Wesley etc.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#18
Thaddeus that could be one of the ones I didn't agree with.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#19
So if you want to say OSAS is the only right way to believe in, by all means do, but realise there are an awful lot of respected christian authors, preachers, bible scholars etc that don't believe in it either. Anyway I don't follow Calvin, I follow Christ.
 
I

iraasuup

Guest
#20
I think some people need to go read 1Still_Waters post in this forum on not re-hashing up old topics repeatedly!! I think it's pretty self explanatory ;)

Time to move on eh?
 
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