Do Catholics turn to idols when in distress?

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T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#1
I am not meaning this to further discord...just when I was reading the newspaper today, I came about this...from the title I thought it would mean putting faith in God...

Sellers put some faith in the market
Huffstutter

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-tc-nw-st-joseph-0420apr20,0,6750399.story

Sellers put some faith in the market

—P.J. Huffstutter, Tribune Newspapers April 20, 2009 After three real estate agents, two price reductions and nearly a year with no offers on their town house in Las Vegas, George and Katherine Grodin turned to a higher power.

They bought a 4-inch plastic figurine of St. Joseph — the patron saint of home and employment — and buried it near the house with hopes of breaking their slump.

"I just felt so helpless," said Katherine Grodin, 47. "I needed to do something."

As the real estate market continues to flag, a growing number of the faithful — and the desperate — are embracing the odd ritual of burying St. Joseph to clinch a quick sale.




Robert DiCocco, manager of the DiCocco Family St. Jude Shop in Havertown, Pa., said that not a day goes by without someone coming into the store for a statue to help speed up a house sale. "They're a little sheepish when they ask, 'What saint do I bury?' " DiCocco said.

Real estate agents are snapping up "St. Joseph Home Selling Kits" for would-be clients — in English and Spanish editions.

Ronnie Wilson, an agent in Carlsbad, Calif., includes the figurine in her regular marketing kit, along with "For Sale" signs and online advertisements.

These days, most people opt for a kit like the ones sold by Philip Cates, a Modesto, Calif.-based mortgage banker and owner of StJosephStatue.com. He sells kits that include a figurine, a bag to bury it in and sample prayers.

Once the property sells, tradition calls for the seller to dig up the statue, dust it off and keep it in a place of honor.

And if no one makes an offer?

"Perhaps it's not time to sell," Cates said.
 
P

Porphyrios

Guest
#2
I personally despise this practice.
 
M

MissMaryMac

Guest
#3
Not only is this practice kind of crazy. No where in this article does it say ANYTHING about Catholics. So I'm not quite sure why you'd assume Catholics turn to idols. For all you know, this person could have been baptist, atheist, Mormon, anything.
 
T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#4
Very few denominations use the pre St. onto people like the Catholics, and also use images, but I will check to see if it is.

I went to the site, then to an ad to buy a kit...it has the history of it as a tradition of the catholic church, traced backed to Sister Therese of Avila: heres the direct link, note: do not buy an idol, just wanted to make sure I didn't wrongly post this...

http://www.buryjoe.com/?g&gclid=CKW_rtnqgpoCFQoMDQodYShJFg

So I was right it was about catholics, I kind of could tell because of the tone of the article, even the writer seems somewhat catholic...anyway...

Sorry, but yes this is about a catholic tradition handed down through the catholic church...I am sure I could do more research on this later.

The Lord's light to all who love him
tony
 
B

Bianca33

Guest
#5
Not only is this practice kind of crazy. No where in this article does it say ANYTHING about Catholics. So I'm not quite sure why you'd assume Catholics turn to idols. For all you know, this person could have been baptist, atheist, Mormon, anything.
This is a typical assumption everyone makes of Catholics and it drives me nuts. What really drives me even MORE nuts is the lack of respect many folks have for the tradition and the SEVERE lack of understanding in what they assume is 'idol worship.'

If you've never belonged to a religion that incorporated items such as these in its daily practice, then it's easy to assume by the outsider that those who do place their faith in these objects, and nothing could be further from the truth. No relic, nor statue of any God, Saint, Virgin (or cross on a chain) has any power in and of itself whatsoever. Catholics KNOW this. These things are simply 'visual aids' and 'tools' used to FOCUS one's prayers to GOD, not to the statue of St. Whoever.

I CHOOSE to use these items (like my Rosary) as meditative aids that help me weed out any distraction from my communion with God. Now, there are sooooo many that don't need this type of aid, and guess what, neither do I; but, I choose to use them, in much the same way anyone would flip a page to any specific passage in the book for their 3 minute communion with God. It's a personal expression of my faith, which is a beautiful faith, the belief in a loving God.

Some people use words, others pictures and statues for their focus. It's the same thing, a prayer aid which gives the believer the feeling that they have commited their prayer to a physical 'action.' Notice the statement was said "I felt like I had to do something." And that is all that is, movement and action within prayer and it has nothing to do really, witht he stupid little item in question. So, NO, this Catholic, though she does use prayer beeds and statues while praying to God, does NOT turn to IDOLS when in distress. None of these things have any power, only God has they power, but these things, like my car that helps to take me to work, get me to where I want to go while I'm in prayer.
 
Jan 10, 2007
68
1
8
#6
Something that makes sense in human logic does not make it right or godly. Scripture explicitly states that there is a way that seems right unto man but the ends thereof are the ways of death (Pro 14:12). All through scripture from Old to New Testament we have the condemnation of making and using images in our worship. This was so important that God’s law strictly forbade images of any kind unless made exactly according to the pattern that God showed Moses while he was on the mountain (Exo 25:40). Not that God wanted to make sure they didn’t make a false representation, but he wanted to make sure they didn’t even have a perfect visual representation of himself. God said clearly that the reason he came down on Mt Sinai hidden by fire, smoke and lightning was so that they would not corrupt themselves and make an image of his true appearance when they saw him.

Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Deuteronomy 4:15-19

Not only was there the strict warning not to have an image of him but an image of anything. To make sure he was perfectly clear he didn’t just say no image of anything but he gave every conceivable category of anything;

Male or female: This precludes them having images of human beings such as Moses or any other patriarch which would be called saints in the present day. Not as visual aids or otherwise. Interesting to note here that when Moses died, satan wanted the body bad enough to fight Michael the Archangel for the possession thereof (Jud 1:9). Knowing how people today flock to see a relic we see why this was so important both to satan to get the body and for God to prevent him from doing so.

No animals, whether land dwelling, bird, fish or even an insect.

Nothing from outer space.

What is left out? Nothing in the air above, the land, or the sea below, and especially not of God himself. They had already tried that with the golden calf. I’ve heard much speculation that the calf was the likeness of a god in Egypt that they had returned to worshiping it instead of God but scripture bears out a much different story.

And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Exodus 32:4-5

In scripture when LORD is in all capital letters it signifies that the translators were translating the personal name of God, Jehovah. Aaron claimed that he had simply made a visual aid for them to worship the one true God and proclaimed a feast in his personal name Jehovah. The following day there was a big feast and praising, because if you read the context, when Moses came down he said he heard singing. If the method of worship and visual aids do not matter to God then their singing was praise to the one true God and should have been accepted but instead God had severe judgment for these people.

What about the one time that God had Moses make an image for a godly purpose which was symbolic of the curse? Namely the brass snake which was hung on a pole? Human logic states that this was an image ordained by God and thus should be preserved for a godly purpose and if someone misused it they should be stopped and taught better but the image still preserved. What happened to the brass snake? In 2 Kings 18 we learn what happened hundreds of years later when Hezekiah became King of Judah:

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.
2 Kings 18:4-6

Hezekiah took that image God had ordained for a purpose and destroyed it because people had kept it and burned incense unto it. Sounds like a visual aid that was treated in much the same fashion as images of Mary and deceased saints. Hezekiah could have taken it and placed it in safe keeping inside the temple or taught the people how to properly treat the image but instead he destroyed it and in part because of that action God describes him as one of the greatest kings that Judah ever had in regards to his devotion to the Lord God Almighty.

While it is true that we are not under the law for salvation any longer we still are able to learn about the heart of God in even the Old Testament Word because Jesus was and is the Word made flesh. Scripture specifically states that these events of the Old Testament times are for our learning. Our God is the God who never changes or shows the slightest sign of variation (Heb 13:8, Ja 1:7).

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:9-12

Through Paul, God specifically mentions the incident with the serpent, but includes the rest of the Old Testament as well in saying that these are ensamples and in light of these events those of us who think we are standing in a proper way before God should learn and take heed lest we fall.

Ironically while many would expect more leniency in the New Covenant, when Paul address those at Mars hill he said God was far more serious, especially about not having images of him, than he was in the Old Testament.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:29-30

Hard to believe there are any “pictures of Jesus” in Christianity when God is so clear in this verse. Why aren’t people falling over dead as they did in the Old Testament times for such disobedience? In Old Testament times when many people died because of idolatry Paul said was the time when God winked at such ignorance. He was speaking to people who used various images and yet was not afraid to openly call it ignorance. God said he was more strict now and no longer winks but commands everyone guilty thereof to repent, so where is the judgment? Verse 31 immediately after the above passage in Acts says there is coming a day in which God will judge the world in righteousness. Judgment is coming, God is not winking at such sin just because the last person you saw with a picture was not struck dead but God in his grace is giving time to repent. Whether in this life or the life to come, judgment will be far worse than anything read about in the Old Testament.

And make no mistake; rarely do people in idolatry think that the image they hold is, in fact, their god. This is evidenced in the fact that they have many images of their god. Anyone with the money can usually buy an image of whichever god they wish. Or if they had the skill they could make their own likeness and sell them as well. This is why the silversmiths were so upset at Ephesus in Acts 19 when Paul was preaching against idolatry. They made their living selling images of their goddess Diana which were visual aids to worship a goddess they believed was from Jupiter (Acts 19:35). They were afraid that if people gave up idolatry they might stop buying their visual aid images. Almost universally, all idolatry is visual aids to call on a god believed to exist beyond their images. If it were not so they would only have one image of their god in one place.

My prayer and admonition for myself and all here is that of Peter in his second letter:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:2-4

We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, exceeding great and precious promises that allow us to partake of God’s nature and escape the corruption that is in this world and gains access to us through following our own desires (lusts) which are supported by our human logic. I further admonish with Isaiah 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Before we accept the teaching of any individual or church, no matter how wise they sound or how large and/or old the church; Is is scriptural? Did the saints of God ever worship God in such a fashion? Did God ever say anything about the practice? Though this admonition is universal in it’s application the verse is actually addressing the practice of asking those who have died to pray to God for those of us that are still living for the last part of the verse before says these people with no light as the question: “…should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?” For the living to the dead, asking the dead people for help regarding the living. This is what King Saul was eventually judged with death for doing: Attempting to communicate with a departed saint (1 Sam 28). Whether you are asking Mary to pray for you, asking a saint to pray for you, or still talking to departed relatives when visiting their graves or such reminders, hear the word of God on such matters. If I have missed scripture somewhere stating that God has ordained such then please let me know, but if all we have is tradition and human logic for a practice, may we surrender this area to God and obey what his Word and the Holy Spirit’s leading in our lives.

Don’t listen to your heart, Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Don’t merely listen to me or any other teacher unless it lines up with Scripture: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Listen to scripture and the Holy Spirit, Psalms 119:96 “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” Heb 12:25 “See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

Scripture has all that we need to know for living a godly life and the Holy Spirit is given to interpret and show us how they apply to our modern age. May we not be so brazen as to add our own human reasoning and tradition to scripture lest we be rebuked by Jesus as in Mark 7:13. May he illumine our eyes to his true light lest what we think is light turns out to be great darkness (Mat 6:23).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13:14
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#7
Something that makes sense in human logic does not make it right or godly. Scripture explicitly states that there is a way that seems right unto man but the ends thereof are the ways of death (Pro 14:12). All through scripture from Old to New Testament we have the condemnation of making and using images in our worship. This was so important that God’s law strictly forbade images of any kind unless made exactly according to the pattern that God showed Moses while he was on the mountain (Exo 25:40). Not that God wanted to make sure they didn’t make a false representation, but he wanted to make sure they didn’t even have a perfect visual representation of himself. God said clearly that the reason he came down on Mt Sinai hidden by fire, smoke and lightning was so that they would not corrupt themselves and make an image of his true appearance when they saw him.

Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Deuteronomy 4:15-19

Not only was there the strict warning not to have an image of him but an image of anything. To make sure he was perfectly clear he didn’t just say no image of anything but he gave every conceivable category of anything;

Male or female: This precludes them having images of human beings such as Moses or any other patriarch which would be called saints in the present day. Not as visual aids or otherwise. Interesting to note here that when Moses died, satan wanted the body bad enough to fight Michael the Archangel for the possession thereof (Jud 1:9). Knowing how people today flock to see a relic we see why this was so important both to satan to get the body and for God to prevent him from doing so.

No animals, whether land dwelling, bird, fish or even an insect.

Nothing from outer space.

What is left out? Nothing in the air above, the land, or the sea below, and especially not of God himself. They had already tried that with the golden calf. I’ve heard much speculation that the calf was the likeness of a god in Egypt that they had returned to worshiping it instead of God but scripture bears out a much different story.

And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Exodus 32:4-5

In scripture when LORD is in all capital letters it signifies that the translators were translating the personal name of God, Jehovah. Aaron claimed that he had simply made a visual aid for them to worship the one true God and proclaimed a feast in his personal name Jehovah. The following day there was a big feast and praising, because if you read the context, when Moses came down he said he heard singing. If the method of worship and visual aids do not matter to God then their singing was praise to the one true God and should have been accepted but instead God had severe judgment for these people.

What about the one time that God had Moses make an image for a godly purpose which was symbolic of the curse? Namely the brass snake which was hung on a pole? Human logic states that this was an image ordained by God and thus should be preserved for a godly purpose and if someone misused it they should be stopped and taught better but the image still preserved. What happened to the brass snake? In 2 Kings 18 we learn what happened hundreds of years later when Hezekiah became King of Judah:

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.
2 Kings 18:4-6

Hezekiah took that image God had ordained for a purpose and destroyed it because people had kept it and burned incense unto it. Sounds like a visual aid that was treated in much the same fashion as images of Mary and deceased saints. Hezekiah could have taken it and placed it in safe keeping inside the temple or taught the people how to properly treat the image but instead he destroyed it and in part because of that action God describes him as one of the greatest kings that Judah ever had in regards to his devotion to the Lord God Almighty.

While it is true that we are not under the law for salvation any longer we still are able to learn about the heart of God in even the Old Testament Word because Jesus was and is the Word made flesh. Scripture specifically states that these events of the Old Testament times are for our learning. Our God is the God who never changes or shows the slightest sign of variation (Heb 13:8, Ja 1:7).

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:9-12

Through Paul, God specifically mentions the incident with the serpent, but includes the rest of the Old Testament as well in saying that these are ensamples and in light of these events those of us who think we are standing in a proper way before God should learn and take heed lest we fall.

Ironically while many would expect more leniency in the New Covenant, when Paul address those at Mars hill he said God was far more serious, especially about not having images of him, than he was in the Old Testament.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:29-30

Hard to believe there are any “pictures of Jesus” in Christianity when God is so clear in this verse. Why aren’t people falling over dead as they did in the Old Testament times for such disobedience? In Old Testament times when many people died because of idolatry Paul said was the time when God winked at such ignorance. He was speaking to people who used various images and yet was not afraid to openly call it ignorance. God said he was more strict now and no longer winks but commands everyone guilty thereof to repent, so where is the judgment? Verse 31 immediately after the above passage in Acts says there is coming a day in which God will judge the world in righteousness. Judgment is coming, God is not winking at such sin just because the last person you saw with a picture was not struck dead but God in his grace is giving time to repent. Whether in this life or the life to come, judgment will be far worse than anything read about in the Old Testament.

And make no mistake; rarely do people in idolatry think that the image they hold is, in fact, their god. This is evidenced in the fact that they have many images of their god. Anyone with the money can usually buy an image of whichever god they wish. Or if they had the skill they could make their own likeness and sell them as well. This is why the silversmiths were so upset at Ephesus in Acts 19 when Paul was preaching against idolatry. They made their living selling images of their goddess Diana which were visual aids to worship a goddess they believed was from Jupiter (Acts 19:35). They were afraid that if people gave up idolatry they might stop buying their visual aid images. Almost universally, all idolatry is visual aids to call on a god believed to exist beyond their images. If it were not so they would only have one image of their god in one place.

My prayer and admonition for myself and all here is that of Peter in his second letter:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:2-4

We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, exceeding great and precious promises that allow us to partake of God’s nature and escape the corruption that is in this world and gains access to us through following our own desires (lusts) which are supported by our human logic. I further admonish with Isaiah 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Before we accept the teaching of any individual or church, no matter how wise they sound or how large and/or old the church; Is is scriptural? Did the saints of God ever worship God in such a fashion? Did God ever say anything about the practice? Though this admonition is universal in it’s application the verse is actually addressing the practice of asking those who have died to pray to God for those of us that are still living for the last part of the verse before says these people with no light as the question: “…should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?” For the living to the dead, asking the dead people for help regarding the living. This is what King Saul was eventually judged with death for doing: Attempting to communicate with a departed saint (1 Sam 28). Whether you are asking Mary to pray for you, asking a saint to pray for you, or still talking to departed relatives when visiting their graves or such reminders, hear the word of God on such matters. If I have missed scripture somewhere stating that God has ordained such then please let me know, but if all we have is tradition and human logic for a practice, may we surrender this area to God and obey what his Word and the Holy Spirit’s leading in our lives.

Don’t listen to your heart, Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Don’t merely listen to me or any other teacher unless it lines up with Scripture: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Listen to scripture and the Holy Spirit, Psalms 119:96 “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” Heb 12:25 “See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

Scripture has all that we need to know for living a godly life and the Holy Spirit is given to interpret and show us how they apply to our modern age. May we not be so brazen as to add our own human reasoning and tradition to scripture lest we be rebuked by Jesus as in Mark 7:13. May he illumine our eyes to his true light lest what we think is light turns out to be great darkness (Mat 6:23).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13:14
We don't agree on much, but AMEN!
 
B

Bianca33

Guest
#8
Something that makes sense in human logic does not make it right or godly. Scripture explicitly states that there is a way that seems right unto man but the ends thereof are the ways of death (Pro 14:12). All through scripture from Old to New Testament we have the condemnation of making and using images in our worship. This was so important that God’s law strictly forbade images of any kind unless made exactly according to the pattern that God showed Moses while he was on the mountain (Exo 25:40). Not that God wanted to make sure they didn’t make a false representation, but he wanted to make sure they didn’t even have a perfect visual representation of himself. God said clearly that the reason he came down on Mt Sinai hidden by fire, smoke and lightning was so that they would not corrupt themselves and make an image of his true appearance when they saw him.

Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Deuteronomy 4:15-19

Not only was there the strict warning not to have an image of him but an image of anything. To make sure he was perfectly clear he didn’t just say no image of anything but he gave every conceivable category of anything;

Male or female: This precludes them having images of human beings such as Moses or any other patriarch which would be called saints in the present day. Not as visual aids or otherwise. Interesting to note here that when Moses died, satan wanted the body bad enough to fight Michael the Archangel for the possession thereof (Jud 1:9). Knowing how people today flock to see a relic we see why this was so important both to satan to get the body and for God to prevent him from doing so.

No animals, whether land dwelling, bird, fish or even an insect.

Nothing from outer space.

What is left out? Nothing in the air above, the land, or the sea below, and especially not of God himself. They had already tried that with the golden calf. I’ve heard much speculation that the calf was the likeness of a god in Egypt that they had returned to worshiping it instead of God but scripture bears out a much different story.

And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Exodus 32:4-5

In scripture when LORD is in all capital letters it signifies that the translators were translating the personal name of God, Jehovah. Aaron claimed that he had simply made a visual aid for them to worship the one true God and proclaimed a feast in his personal name Jehovah. The following day there was a big feast and praising, because if you read the context, when Moses came down he said he heard singing. If the method of worship and visual aids do not matter to God then their singing was praise to the one true God and should have been accepted but instead God had severe judgment for these people.

What about the one time that God had Moses make an image for a godly purpose which was symbolic of the curse? Namely the brass snake which was hung on a pole? Human logic states that this was an image ordained by God and thus should be preserved for a godly purpose and if someone misused it they should be stopped and taught better but the image still preserved. What happened to the brass snake? In 2 Kings 18 we learn what happened hundreds of years later when Hezekiah became King of Judah:

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.
2 Kings 18:4-6

Hezekiah took that image God had ordained for a purpose and destroyed it because people had kept it and burned incense unto it. Sounds like a visual aid that was treated in much the same fashion as images of Mary and deceased saints. Hezekiah could have taken it and placed it in safe keeping inside the temple or taught the people how to properly treat the image but instead he destroyed it and in part because of that action God describes him as one of the greatest kings that Judah ever had in regards to his devotion to the Lord God Almighty.

While it is true that we are not under the law for salvation any longer we still are able to learn about the heart of God in even the Old Testament Word because Jesus was and is the Word made flesh. Scripture specifically states that these events of the Old Testament times are for our learning. Our God is the God who never changes or shows the slightest sign of variation (Heb 13:8, Ja 1:7).

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:9-12

Through Paul, God specifically mentions the incident with the serpent, but includes the rest of the Old Testament as well in saying that these are ensamples and in light of these events those of us who think we are standing in a proper way before God should learn and take heed lest we fall.

Ironically while many would expect more leniency in the New Covenant, when Paul address those at Mars hill he said God was far more serious, especially about not having images of him, than he was in the Old Testament.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:29-30

Hard to believe there are any “pictures of Jesus” in Christianity when God is so clear in this verse. Why aren’t people falling over dead as they did in the Old Testament times for such disobedience? In Old Testament times when many people died because of idolatry Paul said was the time when God winked at such ignorance. He was speaking to people who used various images and yet was not afraid to openly call it ignorance. God said he was more strict now and no longer winks but commands everyone guilty thereof to repent, so where is the judgment? Verse 31 immediately after the above passage in Acts says there is coming a day in which God will judge the world in righteousness. Judgment is coming, God is not winking at such sin just because the last person you saw with a picture was not struck dead but God in his grace is giving time to repent. Whether in this life or the life to come, judgment will be far worse than anything read about in the Old Testament.

And make no mistake; rarely do people in idolatry think that the image they hold is, in fact, their god. This is evidenced in the fact that they have many images of their god. Anyone with the money can usually buy an image of whichever god they wish. Or if they had the skill they could make their own likeness and sell them as well. This is why the silversmiths were so upset at Ephesus in Acts 19 when Paul was preaching against idolatry. They made their living selling images of their goddess Diana which were visual aids to worship a goddess they believed was from Jupiter (Acts 19:35). They were afraid that if people gave up idolatry they might stop buying their visual aid images. Almost universally, all idolatry is visual aids to call on a god believed to exist beyond their images. If it were not so they would only have one image of their god in one place.

My prayer and admonition for myself and all here is that of Peter in his second letter:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:2-4

We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, exceeding great and precious promises that allow us to partake of God’s nature and escape the corruption that is in this world and gains access to us through following our own desires (lusts) which are supported by our human logic. I further admonish with Isaiah 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Before we accept the teaching of any individual or church, no matter how wise they sound or how large and/or old the church; Is is scriptural? Did the saints of God ever worship God in such a fashion? Did God ever say anything about the practice? Though this admonition is universal in it’s application the verse is actually addressing the practice of asking those who have died to pray to God for those of us that are still living for the last part of the verse before says these people with no light as the question: “…should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?” For the living to the dead, asking the dead people for help regarding the living. This is what King Saul was eventually judged with death for doing: Attempting to communicate with a departed saint (1 Sam 28). Whether you are asking Mary to pray for you, asking a saint to pray for you, or still talking to departed relatives when visiting their graves or such reminders, hear the word of God on such matters. If I have missed scripture somewhere stating that God has ordained such then please let me know, but if all we have is tradition and human logic for a practice, may we surrender this area to God and obey what his Word and the Holy Spirit’s leading in our lives.

Don’t listen to your heart, Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Don’t merely listen to me or any other teacher unless it lines up with Scripture: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Listen to scripture and the Holy Spirit, Psalms 119:96 “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” Heb 12:25 “See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

Scripture has all that we need to know for living a godly life and the Holy Spirit is given to interpret and show us how they apply to our modern age. May we not be so brazen as to add our own human reasoning and tradition to scripture lest we be rebuked by Jesus as in Mark 7:13. May he illumine our eyes to his true light lest what we think is light turns out to be great darkness (Mat 6:23).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13:14
No offense, but all this stuff you've quoted here just shows how well you know the bible and in the end it amounts to blah, blah, blah - absolutely nothing. It's a beautiful thing that you can find all these things to justify the fundametalist literalism with which you approach God, but I (and I suspect many others) will not be made a SLAVE to scripture - nor any religion; when you do that, when you seek to make spiritual slaves out of people, you KILL the faith.

It's just that simple, and you know what else happens when you don't allow free expression in a faith? People LEAVE it, in droves, which is why Christianity, in every denomination is DYING today, and people are no longer finding any relevance in Jesus / God, because they are being shackled by rules and dogmas that no longer apply today. They are being asked to become slaves to the religion (Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, etc.). Like any other 'living' thing, if a religion doesn't 'evolve' and 'adapt' to the demands of the new environment, it WILL die or become utterly insignificant.

That's it, that's my two cents on that, and I will not apologize for the Rosary or the statues nor anything else I employ in my worship because it brings me comfort in my communion with God. And that is how you judge the VALIDITY of any religious expression; it must do three things: it must comfort the believer, it must compliment the believer's life, and it must up-lift the believer's spirit. If it doesn't do those three things for you as a beliver, then it's no good and in-valid and one should seek another path. And that's perfectly acceptable too. I bless all those adherents of other religions and pray that they may find the peace of God in however form and language God chose to reveal himself to them in their countries, in their language, in their religions. It's it's valid for them, it's valid for God. You cannot 'BOX' God in a single book or passage or religion. God is greater than all of that nonsense. I know this to be my personal truth, and no bible quotes required to validate it for me. Heh, God knows... And God bless us all.
 
P

Porphyrios

Guest
#9
I don't know the origin of this practice, but its a folk practice that has sort of become popular these days. There is no official church approval of such a practice and any properly catechized Catholic would know that this(St. Joseph real estate thing) is idolatry and an abuse.
 
M

MissMaryMac

Guest
#10
And to answer the question. No, Catholics generally turn to God when in distress.
And the site still doesn't say anything about being a Catholic tradition. Simply that it is SAID that one group of Catholics did it. Says nothing about the people that do it now. Doesn't say it's supported by the Catholic church.
 
K

kujo313

Guest
#11
My mother used to own a book that listed all the "saints" according to the Catholic church and what they was the patron saint of. I remember that she used to tell me to pray to St. Anthony if i ever lost anything.
Yet, Jesus told us to ask the Father in His (Jesus') name. I can go directly to God, Himself.

I don't have to have the faith that if I asked some dead guy to deliver my petition to God that He will then hear me and answer me.

Catholics do not call it "idol worship" because years ago one of their popes probably said so. That's how that religion works. They can try to twist Scripture to say they are right but they are NOT right.
 
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Porphyrios

Guest
#12
Catholics do not call it "idol worship" because years ago one of their popes probably said so. That's how that religion works. They can try to twist Scripture to say they are right but they are NOT right.

Citation please or its just unfair speculation.
 
Apr 3, 2009
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#13
I am not meaning this to further discord...just when I was reading the newspaper today, I came about this...from the title I thought it would mean putting faith in God...

Sellers put some faith in the market
Huffstutter

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-tc-nw-st-joseph-0420apr20,0,6750399.story

Sellers put some faith in the market

—P.J. Huffstutter, Tribune Newspapers April 20, 2009 After three real estate agents, two price reductions and nearly a year with no offers on their town house in Las Vegas, George and Katherine Grodin turned to a higher power.

They bought a 4-inch plastic figurine of St. Joseph — the patron saint of home and employment — and buried it near the house with hopes of breaking their slump.

"I just felt so helpless," said Katherine Grodin, 47. "I needed to do something."

As the real estate market continues to flag, a growing number of the faithful — and the desperate — are embracing the odd ritual of burying St. Joseph to clinch a quick sale.




Robert DiCocco, manager of the DiCocco Family St. Jude Shop in Havertown, Pa., said that not a day goes by without someone coming into the store for a statue to help speed up a house sale. "They're a little sheepish when they ask, 'What saint do I bury?' " DiCocco said.

Real estate agents are snapping up "St. Joseph Home Selling Kits" for would-be clients — in English and Spanish editions.

Ronnie Wilson, an agent in Carlsbad, Calif., includes the figurine in her regular marketing kit, along with "For Sale" signs and online advertisements.

These days, most people opt for a kit like the ones sold by Philip Cates, a Modesto, Calif.-based mortgage banker and owner of StJosephStatue.com. He sells kits that include a figurine, a bag to bury it in and sample prayers.

Once the property sells, tradition calls for the seller to dig up the statue, dust it off and keep it in a place of honor.

And if no one makes an offer?

"Perhaps it's not time to sell," Cates said.
LEAVE the catholic alone.
you are judging them
and like you may make your computer into an idol, your tv, your newspaper, food, sleeping, or whatever, just because what the catholics do is more obious dont give you permission to tear them down about it.
 
A

angelsweet

Guest
#14
Love the sinner, hate the sin. No one it seems is tearing down anyONE (as opposed to anyTHING) here. It's a curious and a somewhat Shamanistic practice which, any honest Bible-believer know is not recommended (even condemned) by Scriptures. If a believer, cannot follow what the Bible plainly says, might as well follow anything. Everything is not truth, there must be only one. If everything is truth, and whatever we believe or felt is right is truth, then everything goes. The basic claims of Christianity becomes meaningless and naught...

Just my 2 cents. Peace all.
 
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MissMaryMac

Guest
#15
So. Just saying. There's this forum where you can ask a team of Catholic apologetics what the Catholic view of things is. So, I asked about this whole ordeal. The reply I got was that the whole thing is superstition and that we shouldn't do it. Catholic practice? Doesn't sound like it.
 
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kujo313

Guest
#16
LEAVE the catholic alone.
you are judging them
and like you may make your computer into an idol, your tv, your newspaper, food, sleeping, or whatever, just because what the catholics do is more obious dont give you permission to tear them down about it.

Not judging THEM, but their TEACHINGS. There's a "patron saint" for just about everything. Even for the internet! My mother used to own an encyclopedia on saints. Did you know that Saint Nicholas, yep, THAT one, is the patron saint for sailors?

Could leave them alone with that, but then their leader says that only their denomination has the "exclusive" on salvation and that every other denomination does not.

http://wcbstv.com/national/Pope.Roman.Catholic.2.286211.html

Just because people do not follow the leader of the roman catholic church, you do not have salvation and no hope.

THEN, their followers actually believe such blasphemy, come in here, and indirectly tell us that we're not bound for Heaven just for the simple fact that we do not concider their pope as ours.
 
J

jimthecatholic

Guest
#17
I am not meaning this to further discord...just when I was reading the newspaper today, I came about this...from the title I thought it would mean putting faith in God...

Sellers put some faith in the market
Huffstutter

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-tc-nw-st-joseph-0420apr20,0,6750399.story

Sellers put some faith in the market

—P.J. Huffstutter, Tribune Newspapers April 20, 2009 After three real estate agents, two price reductions and nearly a year with no offers on their town house in Las Vegas, George and Katherine Grodin turned to a higher power.

They bought a 4-inch plastic figurine of St. Joseph — the patron saint of home and employment — and buried it near the house with hopes of breaking their slump.

"I just felt so helpless," said Katherine Grodin, 47. "I needed to do something."

As the real estate market continues to flag, a growing number of the faithful — and the desperate — are embracing the odd ritual of burying St. Joseph to clinch a quick sale.




Robert DiCocco, manager of the DiCocco Family St. Jude Shop in Havertown, Pa., said that not a day goes by without someone coming into the store for a statue to help speed up a house sale. "They're a little sheepish when they ask, 'What saint do I bury?' " DiCocco said.

Real estate agents are snapping up "St. Joseph Home Selling Kits" for would-be clients — in English and Spanish editions.

Ronnie Wilson, an agent in Carlsbad, Calif., includes the figurine in her regular marketing kit, along with "For Sale" signs and online advertisements.

These days, most people opt for a kit like the ones sold by Philip Cates, a Modesto, Calif.-based mortgage banker and owner of StJosephStatue.com. He sells kits that include a figurine, a bag to bury it in and sample prayers.

Once the property sells, tradition calls for the seller to dig up the statue, dust it off and keep it in a place of honor.

And if no one makes an offer?

"Perhaps it's not time to sell," Cates said.

Simply put NO NO NO No, catholics do not turn to idols, this is a "local tradition" that some may have and of which i never heard of. many people who are not educated in thier faith can have superstitions and this may be one that grew out of good intentions from their faith in God. We turn to God when we need help. We may ask people in heaven to pray for us just like you may ask some one on earth to pray for you. Now many of you may not beleive in that and thats ok you dont need to argue your point of what you beleive. I am just explaining what we do. Consider this also, as much as we may honor the saints in heave understand that we worship and glorify God all the more so. So that obviously He is on a much higher level, being God and all. So its not like they are equal to Him, that would be nonsence.
Still this artical is more about a superstition then anything else and is not related in anyway to some one being catholic or any catholic teaching. Hope that helps. Please feel free to send me a message if you have any more questions.
 
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jimthecatholic

Guest
#18
Not judging THEM, but their TEACHINGS. There's a "patron saint" for just about everything. Even for the internet! My mother used to own an encyclopedia on saints. Did you know that Saint Nicholas, yep, THAT one, is the patron saint for sailors?

Could leave them alone with that, but then their leader says that only their denomination has the "exclusive" on salvation and that every other denomination does not.

http://wcbstv.com/national/Pope.Roman.Catholic.2.286211.html

Just because people do not follow the leader of the roman catholic church, you do not have salvation and no hope.

THEN, their followers actually believe such blasphemy, come in here, and indirectly tell us that we're not bound for Heaven just for the simple fact that we do not concider their pope as ours.

It doesnt mean you have no chance of Heaven, you may have a greater chance then me if you are more faithful to God then I. It means you arent in the church that Jesus founded and dont have the fullness of truth, but to those who have much much is expected. So because I am part of this church I am more responsible for my actions or inaction as the case maybe, thats why you may get to heaven before me. We just dont have that spiritual union but as we say, are seperated breatherin. Let us pray for each other that we both will be faithful to our faith in God and be worthy of our call. God bless.
 
May 3, 2009
246
2
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#19
Not judging THEM, but their TEACHINGS. There's a "patron saint" for just about everything. Even for the internet! My mother used to own an encyclopedia on saints. Did you know that Saint Nicholas, yep, THAT one, is the patron saint for sailors?

Could leave them alone with that, but then their leader says that only their denomination has the "exclusive" on salvation and that every other denomination does not.

http://wcbstv.com/national/Pope.Roman.Catholic.2.286211.html

Just because people do not follow the leader of the roman catholic church, you do not have salvation and no hope.

THEN, their followers actually believe such blasphemy, come in here, and indirectly tell us that we're not bound for Heaven just for the simple fact that we do not concider their pope as ours.

I am so happy, brother, that you have an interest in becoming an Apostolic Christian! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your kind words regarding the Catholic Christian faith. You already seem so knowlegeable! Must have done a lot of reading from impartial sources. Yes? Let me give you just a little bit more information so you can get started on your conversion.

In Catholic theology, the term 'Saint' is reserved for those individuals who have led a holy and exemplary life and have now entered Heaven. The process of becoming a Saint is termed canonization and the first known canonization was of Ulric of Augsburg in 973. Within the Catholic Church there exists a special department (The Congregation for the Causes of Saints), which oversees the whole process. They would thoroughly investigate the life of the individual, checking for orthodox belief and any miracles claimed as a result of their intercession. The appearance of miracles is taken that the person is now in heaven and can intercede for us as part of the 'Communion of Saints' (see below).
Once the Congregation has completed their work, the Pope may issue a decree declaring the person to be 'Blessed', that is, beatified. Once beatified, another miracle is then required to allow the Pope to declare the individual a saint. A feast day may then be allocated and veneration of the saint encouraged. Examples include:
  • 28 August -St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430)
  • 4 October - St. Francis of Assissi (1182-1226)
Veneration of the saints is the way in which the Catholic church honours and respects those who it regards as deserving of such action. Catholic theology draws a clear distinction between veneration and worship. Three Greek terms illustrate this point:
  • Latria ('Worship') - The adoration that is due to God alone.
  • Dulia ('Servitude') - The respect given to the saints. Honouring the saints is seen is honouring God, because of his presence and holiness in their lives.
  • Hyperdulia ('Higher Servitude') - The special veneration given to the Virgin Mary, on account of her role as Mother of Christ. Mary is also called the 'Mother of God' in the sense that the Son she bore was truly God and part of the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Note: The term 'Our Lady' is widely used within the Church for Mary, paralleled by 'Our Lord' for Christ. For example: 'Our Lady of Lourdes'.
Paragraph 50 of the Dogmatic constitution on the church, proclaimed by Pope Paul VI in 1964 at the Vatican II council, explains the Catholic thinking behind veneration:
"...The Church has always believed that the apostles and Christ's martyrs who had given the supreme witness of faith and charity by the shedding of their blood, are closely joined with us in Christ, and she has always venerated them with special devotion, together with the Blessed Virgin Mary and the holy angels. The Church has piously implored the aid of their intercession. To these were soon added also those who had more closely imitated Christ's virginity and poverty, and finally others whom the outstanding practice of the Christian virtues and the divine charisms recommended to the pious devotion and imitation of the faithful."

The 'Communion of Saints'
This term refers to the union of believers on Earth, in Heaven and also (in Catholic theology) those in Purgatory. All form part of the body of Christ.
Each group is identified by the following terms:
  1. Church Triumphant - The Saints in Heaven
  2. Church Militant - Those on earth
  3. Church Suffering (sometimes called Church Expectant) - Those in purgatory
Catholic belief indicates that those saints now in Heaven are able to intercede, not only for those on Earth, but also those in Purgatory. Their intercession is considered to be effective on account of their closeness to God. Also, those on Earth can intercede for those in Purgatory. This can all be summarised in the form of a diagram:

The Communion of Saints.
"We believe in the communion of all the faithful of Christ, those who are pilgrims on earth, the dead who are being purified, and the blessed in heaven, all together forming one Church; and we believe that in this communion, the merciful love of God and his saints is always attentive to our prayers."



Allied to the idea of saintly intercession is the concept of a Patron saint, i.e. a special kind of intercessor for a country, special situation or job. Examples include:
  • St. Antony of Padua (c.1191-1231) - for lost articles.
  • St. Francis of Assisi (1182-1226) - for Animals.
  • St. Patrick (c.390-461) - for Ireland.
St. Isidore of Seville has been proposed as the patron saint of the Internet.



Mary, The Blessed Virgin

We noted above that Mary commands a special role in Catholic theology. From her position as the Theotokos (Greek: 'God-Bearer'), she is seen as having special intercessory gifts and influence with her son. Marian devotion has increased in recent times, taking such forms as the Rosary and pilgrimages to Marian shrines (see articles below).
Apart from the belief that Mary retained her virginity throughout her whole life, the Catholic church has proclaimed two Marian dogmas:
  • The Immaculate Conception - In a papal encyclical Ineffabilis Deus (The Ineffable God) issued in 1854, Pope Pius IX proclaimed that:

    "The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin."
    The word 'Immaculate' derives from the Latin Macula, i.e. a mark or stain. To support this dogma, attention is drawn to Luke 1:28, in which the Angel Gabriel greets Mary with the words "Hail Mary, Full of Grace." (Latin: Ave Maria, Gratia Plena.)
  • The Assumption - First proclaimed in 1950 by Pope Pius XII in the encyclical Munificentissimus Deus (The generosity of God). This states that:
"...the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul to heavenly glory."
A distinction is drawn between the Ascension i.e. Christ rising to Heaven by his own divine power and Assumption, which happens through divine intervention. For example, the Old Testament includes the assumptions of Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) and Enoch (Genesis 5:24). The question of whether Mary actually died remains an open one within the church.


The Rosary
Outside of the Mass, this is perhaps the commonest set of Catholic devotional prayers. The word 'Rosary' derives from the Latin Rosarium , that is a Rose. This links to Mary, as she is sometimes known as the 'Mystical Rose'. The Rosary is seen as a meditation on the life of Christ, using portions of scripture for meditation.

To begin the Rosary, it is common to use the Apostles Creed:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
The Lord's prayer is also used in the Rosary, and the main prayer is called the 'Hail Mary':
Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
The Hail Mary is repeated 10 times, forming a 'Decade' and there are 15 Decades in total. These 15 are then subdivided into 'Mysteries':
  • Joyful - The Annunciation and birth of Jesus.
  • Sorrowful - Jesus' suffering and death.
  • Glorious - Including Jesus' Resurrection and Ascension and Mary's Assumption.
Once again, I am so excited you decided to become a Christian!. Wish you all the success in your walk with God.

Amen.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#20
would worshipping Mary be a false idol or would that be a false god
 
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