DID GOD CREATE EVIL?

wakeup · Feb 23, 2011

DID GOD CREATE EVIL? IF SO THAN WHY?
WHY DID GOD CREATE LUCIFER?
WHY DID JESUS CHOSE JUDAS ISCARIOT TOBE ONE OF HIS APOSTLES?
WHY WILL SATAN BE PUT IN PRISON? REV20:3.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE, WHY NOT JUST DESTROY HIM.
WHY DID GOD ALLOW THE POWERFULL LUCIFER, ( EZEK.28:12 )------THUS SAID THE LORD GOD
THOU SEALEST UP THE SUM , FULL OF WISDOM AND PERFECT IN BEAUTY.
ADAM AND EVE ARE ONLY MADE OF FLESH, THEY DONT HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN ANYTHING.
THEY DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOOD OR EVIL.
WHY DID GOD ALLOW LUCIFER TO TEMPT THAT INNOCENT GIRL? WAKEUP

Credo_ut_Intelligam · Feb 23, 2011

If evil is something like a privation then we don't need to say that God created evil. In fact, if this is the case then it's not even clear that God could "create" evil in any direct sense of "create," from a logical standpoint. However, God can still allow evil or bring it about that evil occurs. And it seems to me that all non-manichean heresies will have to say that God allowed it or brought it about. Why? Ultimately, for his glory.

...Wake up yourself....

wakeup · Feb 23, 2011

Credo_ut_Intelligam said:

ISIAH 45:7 I FORM THE LIGHT, AND CREATE DARKNESS
I MAKE PEACE AND CREATE EVIL: I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS.--------WAKEUP

EverlastingChange · Feb 23, 2011

@ wakeup.. Are you asking these questions out of general curiosity ? Or trying to disprove God? Also are you telling us to "wakeup" or are you just signing your username at the end of each post.

superdave5221 · Feb 23, 2011

No. God did not create evil! Evil is a consequence of God's existence. Since God is everything that is good, and love itself, then there must be the absence of goodness and love, (law of parity). This absense of goodness and love (hate) is therefore evil. Evil has always existed and was not created. But you have to remember, evil is not an object. Evil must work through a sapient being in order to become active. Satan and his angels chose to activate this force and then Adam and Eve brought it into the physical realms when they sinned in the garden. Since that time, evil has been the result or consequences of our choices to disobey God.

EverlastingChange · Feb 23, 2011

Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

Source: Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?

Credo_ut_Intelligam · Feb 23, 2011

wakeup said:

As EverlastingChange pointed out, the term there can simply mean calamity.

But anyway, it's not clear what point you're getting at.

Scotth1960 · Feb 23, 2011

superdave5221 said:

Amen. Lord have mercy on us, so we do obey Him and He have mercy on us. God is not the author of evil. God is incapable of making, sanctioning, of creating evil. God is the author only of goodness and mercy (Psalm 23), all the days of a Christian's life. God save us. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

mfcruncher · Feb 23, 2011

Evil is something we use to describe a judgement. Anotherwords, we say this thing is evil or Lucifer is evil. That which doesn't love God is evil, in a certain sense, by virtue of its seperation from God. We could say that when we choose anything before God, we are evil.

loveschild · Feb 23, 2011

So we can decide with our free will whose side we are on. If there were no evil then what? We must decide if we want God or if we want to follow Satan. A decision must be made.

DanuckInUSA · Feb 23, 2011

God created man with free will. Man in their free will created evil.

NoahsMom · Feb 23, 2011

No. God did not create evil! Evil is a consequence of God's existence. Since God is everything that is good, and love itself, then there must be the absence of goodness and love, (law of parity). This absense of goodness and love (hate) is therefore evil. Evil has always existed and was not created. But you have to remember, evil is not an object. Evil must work through a sapient being in order to become active. Satan and his angels chose to activate this force and then Adam and Eve brought it into the physical realms when they sinned in the garden. Since that time, evil has been the result or consequences of our choices to disobey God. AMEN!

wakeup · Feb 23, 2011

superdave5221 said:

YES, EVIL THOUGHTS WAS IN LUCIFERS HEART, GOD WANTS IT TO MATERIALISE, BUT CAN NOT BE DONE
IN HEAVEN, CAUSE THE ANGELS ARE SPIRIT, THEY DONT DIE THEY DONTFEEL PAIN ETC.
SO GOD HAS TO MAKE CREATURES MADE OF FLESH. THEN ALLOW LUCIFER TO TEMPT THEM.
GOD KNEW THAT ADAM AND EVE WAS GOING TO FAIL, BUT THAT WAS ALL HIS PLAN
THIS THING CALLED EVIL, MUST BE BORN MUST GROW TO MATURITY.
BUT GOD ALSO TAUGHT US WHAT IS GOOD , SO HE GAVE US THE COMM. BUT NO ONE CAN FOLLOW THE
COMM. IN PERFECTION, WE ALLWAYS WILL BREAK ONE, SO WE ARE LOST.
BUT GOD LOVES US AND HE WANTS TO SAVE US. THE PROPHETS ARE NOT DOING TOO WELL, NO
ONE WOULD LISTEN TO THEM. SO GOD SENT HIS WORD DOWN , INTHE FORM OF THE FLESH,
AND HIS NAME IS CALLED JESUS . AND HE WAS THE LIGHT TO OPEN THE EYES OF THE WORLD.
THE FLESH CARRIED THE SINS OF THE WORLD ,HE OBEYED THE FATHER TO THE END.
HE WAS REWARDED(THE MAN JESUS) NOW ALL AUTHORITY IS GIVEN TO HIM AND HE IS SITTING
IN
GODS RIGHT HAND ,WAITING FOR GODS COMMAND TO COME BACK TO DESTROY EVIL.
AND HE WIIL COME IN THE VERY VERY NEAR FUTURE.-------WAKEUP

Glowing · Feb 23, 2011

NoahsMom said:

Hi NoahsMom; Well put; I've recently been contemplating this situation about Adam & Eve. We all know that in the garden was not only the tree of life; but also the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

This got me to thinking that even when things are restored back to MoreNatural order, that this situation will always stand.

We are MoreNaturally growers and multiplyers of everything that is good, governed by Fair, Care and Share. It would seem to me that there would be one more Commandment required to keep order; NEVER have contact with the negative universe, as Our Father takes care of that Himself; He not only Rules the Positive, but also Controls and if neccesary, Destroys the negative.

This sin of Adam & Eve certainly seems to run parrallel with Lucifers sin.

MoreNaturally we are able to obey, however in the flesh

we fall so miserably short, But,

He knows our hearts, and how we all look so forward to obeying Him again, Fully & Completely.

Love and Peace Forever in CHRIST!!!

NoahsMom · Feb 23, 2011

MoreNaturally we are able to obey, however in the flesh

we fall so miserably short, But,

He knows our hearts, and how we all look so forward to obeying Him again, Fully & Completely.
Yes we do.....YES HE DOES.....and yes we Shall!

mpaper345 · Feb 23, 2011

When the Bible says that God created evil,it does not mean that God condones evil,or wants anybody to do evil,but since God created all things,then those who do evil can only happen because God created them.
Every action happens because God created all things,so it would be like God created evil,but He does not want it to happen,for if He wanted evil to happen,then His nature of being good would be ruined.

The Bible says that Lucifer was created perfect until iniquity was found in him,so it was not God that wanted him to do evil,but Lucifer that wanted to exalt himself to be like God.

The Bible says that God created man upright,but they sought out many inventions,which means that God did not want Adam and Eve to sin,and does not want man to do evil,but they did it themselves.

The Bible says that God cannot be tempted with evil and does not tempt any man to do evil.God does not want anybody to do evil,and did not want Lucifer to rebel,so Eve can be tempted,and Adam can be tempted by Eve,and did not want Adam and Eve to sin,so mankind would need a savior,but it happened that way.

In order for God to have a people that chose to love Him,and dwell with Him,some people will be lost and be in hell tormented.

No blasphemy on my part,for like Paul said,God can do anything He wants for all is His,and I have to agree,but some people might think,why would God create angels and people in the first place to have a people to dwell with Him,when in order to have those people to dwell with Him,the majority of mankind will be tormented for not being in the truth.Some people might think it would be better if God did not create angels and people,than to create them to gather a group of angels and people that love Him,if some have to be tormented that rejected the truth.

cookie39 · Feb 23, 2011

superdave5221 said:

AMEN!!!!

And if I may add to this: God said He tempt NO MAN of evil; for there is NO evil in him...
The Good God is talking about is blessings AND "THE EVIL" is his removing of blessings and giving His WRATH,
If the bible is read with the Lord we will see in the bible where God through his wrath; punished man. or "a man"
or "a nation" And it say many times God said; He repented Himself of " THE EVIL" He has done to them...
there is also where God said that he will not do to king Ahab the evil he said he was going to do to him... He said he will do it to his children. See even what people call a generational curse... is not what the devil will make you do... Never was what God was going to make anyone do... It was the punishment that the father was going to have or what they got... God was going to punished their children to. This is what God calls the evil he created. read it in the bible. God will answer all our questions we have about him.

if you read the story about when 75,000 children of Israel was slain by an angel "GOD" Sent to destroy them... When he saw what was going on, He He told the Angel to stop... For it repented Him of the Evil he has done..... This evil and good God is speaking of... is either you will receive blessing from him for your obedients or we will receive evil ( his wrath) from him- for disobedients. you can go to bible gateway and type in evil and read where God refer to his evil as his wrath.

Devolution · Feb 23, 2011

superdave5221 said:

Hi dave,
This is a very good response. However it doesn't really get to the core of the problem, though it is a very good answer.

In the beginning was God. That's it...nothing else. Here is a condition before creation. And in Him is light and NO darkness whatsoever. So here is God, and there is only Him....and nothing else....God & goodness....so here is a condition where nothing but good exists....where is the law of parity here ? It IS ABSENT. Remember, the law of parity is mans law explaining mans interaction in the material plane of which men live....it cannot be applied to God who is outside of our laws and philosophies. So there WAS a time when no evil existed, then God created everything....so, how then did this evil appear from a previous state of no evil? It should have been there all along if this law of parity were holding God Himself to its stated laws...but God is the lawgiver...not some "force" in the shape of a law He apparently also now is bound by.

When soldiers are to be sent into action, something interesting occurs...for the sake of the fighting men, to better prepare them for survival...something is created !! And that is this, they are put into a PLANNED and coordinated simulation/exercise recreating as close as possible the fighting conditions they will face....and yes, soldiers do die in these live fire simulations. So here we see that to BEST prepare these troops....FIRST they must TASTE the conditions they will face to ENABLE them to face it and hopefully condition them to respond accordingly in the field rather than freeze up and become sitting ducks, or gripped by fear unable to carry out their commands to the letter.

These are tools...tools that serve a PURPOSE...and so is evil, it too serves a purpose, a living purpose...and men learn best by LIVING their mistakes. Parents always say don't touch it will burn you...we all know what always happens next...ouch, that burnt !!!! You see, words or instructions are NOT enough to teach when dealing with creatures that hold free will...therefore, they have to be taught by LIVING it, and tasting it, and choosing....touch or don't touch.

I see an attempt to explain the translation of evil as being something else (not by you) ?? But what of the THOUSANDS of uses of this word which does indeed fit with other declarations? Will we use this approach against them also? Or only use it selectively? Which IS what is being done here. It seems to be used whenever something goes against their OWN precepts settled upon by THEMSELVES? Read the bible again....evil is used THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times....and it is NEVER questioned by that translation card....strange.

Lets look at some more scripture, and see what message God is conveying...

Amos 3:6
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The Lord is using EVIL here as a tool, for a purpose....

Isaiah 54:16
Behold, I have CREATED the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work, and I have CREATED the WASTER TO DESTROY !!

Again, God is declaring HE is the one behind EVIL...HE created the WASTER..and what for? TO DESTROY....hmm sounds like this waster is just a TOOL in Gods hand...FOR A PURPOSE..

Job 26:13
By His Spirit He hath garnished the heavens, His hand hath FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT...

Well, this explanation certainly sounds like God knew what He was doing when creating Lucifer....oh, it can be argued, i just bring it to your attention in context.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, Am He, and there is no god with Me, I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand.

THIS is important....GOD KILLS...and how does God achieve this? He USES his TOOL....God ALWAYS uses the WICKED to destroy the WICKED...it serves a PURPOSE...and this EVIL serves a purpose too...to TEACH the good...so NOW that every GOOD child knows the evil by living and experiencing it, no one ever need say to them again, "don't touch" .. and after evil is destroyed after it has served its PURPOSE, it will never exist again..neither will that saying..the law of parity. We also see that this evil is CONTROLLED....just as a tool is by its handler.

Regards
Devolution.

cookie39 · Feb 23, 2011

God did not create Satan, or the devil.... He created Lucifer. He said Lucifer was PERFECT in ALL HIS WAY in the DAY HE WAS CREATED.... That show that God don't MAKE no mess. God have used the heart of man and satan to bring about his will.

The bible say if They would have known what was going to come out of Jesus' death THEY WOULD NOT HAD CRUCIFIED HIM. the devil would have tried to keep Jesus alive if he had known what Great and Awesome results God intended for it. See the reason Jesus made Judas his disciple cause he knew judas was a snake and what better way to bring about his plan then to use those who in their own evil hearts was not going to do nothing but evil.

Many people in the world today do the same thing... if you know a man have pride, all you have to do is dare him not to do something ( when you really want him to do it) to get him to do it. You will be playing on the pride you know that is already there. you didn't make him full of pride but because you know it is there and you know how you can work it for you benefit... you will do it. I have done it many times at work in the past. just like SOME men or women who are in relationships they always play on the weakness of the other... if a woman know her man love s** she can use it to get what she want out of him... did she make him a s** addict? NO, but because they are that way; worldly wisdom will teach them how to benefit off the weakness that person have... hope you get what I am saying. God don't have to make a person evil in order to use them. Just like Pharoh... God knew he was full of pride and stuburness, And everything God would do to him ( his nation) was going to work pharoh's ego and he was going to fight against Moses because of the pride... mess with a man's pride today.. many have killed or wanted to kill because of bruised egos. Is it wrong for God to know how and use what is already in man to bring about his purpose and his will....... I DON'T THINK SO... why destroy satan and leave man in the state they are in? Satan's purpose in this world today is that God has to as in his plan redeem man from the bondage of his power. if the devil be gone, will not make man free. if the master of a slave was dead he will only be free from that owner but he wont be free from a slaves mind or a slaves heart. so God choice of plan IS TO REDEEM man from satan not FORCE them in the state they are in, but to CHANGE them. It's like taking a insane person from a hospital, by destroying that hospital they are free to go with you; Yet will this make them sane. You only have this person out of force. wouldn't it be better to just go to the hospital and pay what ever it cost to bring this person with you, and work with the person till they are willing to go with you. which do you think is greater? Wow, the Lord has done GREAT AND MIGHTY THINGS... it is ok to question because we don't aways understand. But to accuse God of doing or being evil, I pray anyone will be very careful. If you ask the Lord and seek him with a pure heart for all truths he will give it to you without measure.

Devolution · Feb 23, 2011

superdave5221 said:

Hi dave,
One more point for you to ponder....if evil were not an object or tool...then WHY did God create flesh? Think about this please. FIRST God created SPIRITUAL beings...eternal, godlike, His CHILDREN...then for some strange reason He creates flesh that can die, get sick, needs food, ages etc etc ???

THEN all of a sudden...EVIL appears !!! Sounds to me, like something else is going on..almost like God WANTED evil to appear...almost as though evil were a tool to TEACH the good...besides all the angels watching evil grow, men too are observing it !! I suppose in order to destroy something, first it must be EXPOSED...and if only God knew of evil BEFORE it were manifest, yet, He wanting His children to be like Him, knowing good and evil, then He would have only one choice...create it first...destroy it later.

NOW He can NEVER be challenged or questioned, "Why Father can't we do so and so? How do we know what you are saying will happen? Father: No, do not touch...Children: OUCH !!! See, now this is cancelled out for all eternity once it completes its purpose. For the children will KNOW.

And the end result of this mortal flesh? CHANGED into SPIRIT !!! So why not just make us SPIRIT in the first place...no, something else is happening.

Regards
Devolution.

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