Jeremiah 31:4 / Isaiah 7:14

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Z

zackabba

Guest
#1
#1
Again I will build you and you will be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
 Again you will take up your tambourines,
And go forth to the dances of the merrymakers. (Jeremiah 31:4)

Therefore thus says the LORD,
'Ask now among the nations,
Who ever heard the like of this?
The virgin of Israel
 Has done a most appalling thing. (Jeremiah 18:13)

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)



Here's my question: was virgin merely supposed to be symbolic? Is Isaiah 7:14 referring to a human virgin, or is it referring to the virgin of Israel?

And how does this play into Messianic prophecies about Jesus?
 
J

journey41

Banned
#2
Jul 30, 2010
882
4
0
#2
zackabba said:
Again I will build you and you will be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
Again you will take up your tambourines,
And go forth to the dances of the merrymakers. (Jeremiah 31:4)
Click to expand...
This is a prophecy talking about the 1000 year reign to come. Lets look at the start of that chapter;

Jeremiah 31:1 At the same time, said the Lord, will I be the God of ALL the FAMILIES of Israel, and THEY SHALL be MY PEOPLE.
Yes, God founded Israel, but they rebelled against him. They as a whole nation have never fully obeyed God. They didn't even accept his son. They still dont...and if they do, then we must have missed something great..It we follow the Lord, then God is our father. If we rebell against God, then Jesus says that Satan is our father. Look what Jesus said to the Jews in the NT when they were claiming God to be their father.

John 8:41: YOU do the DEEDS of YOUR FATHER. Then said they to him. We are not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

8:42 Jesus said unto them, IF God WERE your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

8:43 Why do you not understand my speech? even because you cannnot hear my word.

8:44 You are of YOUR FATHER the DEVIL, and the lusts of YOUR FATHER you WILL DO. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode NOT in the TRUTH, because there is NO TRUTH in HIM. When he SPEAKS a LIE, he speaks of HIS OWN for he is a LIAR, and the FATHER of it.

Prophecy 1000 year reign
Jerem 31:4 Again I WILL REBUILD THEE, and YOU shall be BUILT, O Virgin of Israel: YOU SHALL be adorned with thy tabrets, and SHALL go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Israel will be RE-BUILT, and God calls her a VIRGIN. But she has rebelled and gone after other Gods so who exactly is God talking about?

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have RESERVED to MYSELF seven thousand men, who HAVE NOT BOWED the KNEE to the IMAGE OF BAAL.
Yes, these ones...the spiritual virgins who have not served any other God. God is talking about ALL of the REMNANT (the good figs) and NOT ALL of Israel.

Lets go to next verse to confirm I am not making this 1000 year reign up!
Jeremiah 31:2 Thus says the Lord, The PEOPLE which were LEFT of THE SWORD found GRACE in the WILDERNESS (Babylon the great) EVEN ISRAEL, when I CAUSE him to REST.
There is going to be a big war to come in Israel (rev 9:16, rev 16:16) these are the survivors..the rest of the remnant. The sword means that there has been war. Israel will now get rest. This has never happened.

God is done with punishing Israel (his firstborn) when this time comes and instead gives mercy because of his love for them.
Jeremiah 31:3 The Lord has appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea I have LOVED THEE with an EVERLASTING LOVE, therefore with LOVING KINDNESS have I DRAWN thee.

Therefore thus says the LORD,
'Ask now among the nations,
Who ever heard the like of this?
The virgin of Israel
Has done a most appalling thing. (Jeremiah 18:13)
Click to expand...
Now, lets look at the nation of Israel as a whole. When Moses led the people out of Egypt, they recieved Gods commandments and they turned good for a short time, as God was their King. They were an example to all the nations and God showed everybody that through his miracles & power he was with them..This nation became Gods virgin..clean, holy, separate from the rest....then they elected Saul to become their king and they started going rotten,(the bad figs). They strayed after strange Gods. No longer a virgin now.

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14) As you know, this is is a prophecy and a sign to watch out for concerning how their messiah was going to come into the world...born by a virgin.. This is not the same virgin as above.


Here's my question: was virgin merely supposed to be symbolic? Is Isaiah 7:14 referring to a human virgin, or is it referring to the virgin of Israel?
Click to expand...
No, two different virgins as explained.

And how does this play into Messianic prophecies about Jesus?
Click to expand...
I hope the above has helped..keep searching

Regards
Journey!
 
Z

Zossima

Guest
#3
#3
Zackabba, why don't you read about the birth of Christ in the Gospel of Matthew and you will find the answer to your own question. The "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14 refers to the literal Virgin Mary herself. Journey misses the point because Journey is too focused on millennialism which up until about two hundred years ago was considered heresy by the majority of Protestants and all Catholics and Orthodox Christians.
 
D

dmdave17

Guest
#4
#4
Zossima said:
Zackabba, why don't you read about the birth of Christ in the Gospel of Matthew and you will find the answer to your own question. The "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14 refers to the literal Virgin Mary herself. Journey misses the point because Journey is too focused on millennialism which up until about two hundred years ago was considered heresy by the majority of Protestants and all Catholics and Orthodox Christians.
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Agreed. The "Virgin of Israel" in Jeremiah is symbolic. The virgin referred to in Isiah 7:14 is the mother of Jesus (Immanuel in Hebrew means "God with us"). In biblical times, virginity was accorded a lot more significance than today. All girls were to remain virgins until they were married, and those that didn't found themselves in serious trouble. (Remember, Joseph almost divorced Mary when he discovered she was with child.)

Therefore, the symbolism of Israel as a virgin (I believe) was to emphasize the seriousness of her fall from grace in the eyes of God. The "virgin of Israel" had defiled herself with sinful behavior (often referred to by God and the prophets as "prostitution"). This served to conceptualize the situation for people living in that time. Israel had been a "virgin" in the eyes of God, and had prostituted herself to other gods.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#5
#5
Revelation 14:1-5


1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
 
Z

zackabba

Guest
#6
#6
Thanks for all your answers!

I've read pretty much all of Matthew here and there, and know about Matthew 1:23, where it says Mary, as a virgin, had Jesus, who had the title of Immanuel, God with us.

I just got confused when I randomly say Jeremiah 31:4 in my Bible (while flipping through it), and thought that Immanuel wasn't referring to an actual person, but a nation or something...that idea's been pretty much resolved, though.

Thanks again! God Bless you all!
 
I

Ifedayo

Guest
#7
#7
I thank God for the pple that are jus giv meaning to that Jer 31:4 thank u.
 
K

khethiwe

Guest
#8
#8
interesting stuff
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
zackabba said:
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)

Here's my question: was virgin merely supposed to be symbolic? Is Isaiah 7:14 referring to a human virgin, or is it referring to the virgin of Israel?
Click to expand...
foretlling of Jesus Christ, His First Advent, THE MESSIAH (see Isaiah 9:6)

Jeremiah speaks to the restoration out of CAPTIVITY (though again, always the temporal blessings and restoration POINT TO JESUS AND SPIRITUAL ISRAEL...who the remnant became - THE CHURCH). these are prophecies concerning the deliverance from the CAPTIVITY! the SPIRITUAL Promise, the Ultimate Promise is ALWAYS about Jesus.
 
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