well I don't have all the Scripture verses on hand, but there is a verse somewhere that says we will be kept from going through the tribulation. Some people believe that means we'll be raptured before it, and other people believe it will be like in Exodus when God's people were spared from the plagues even though the plagues were happening all around them. I personally think the rapture is pre-trib, and that's the thing that happens in the blink of an eye, and those verses that say two men will be walking up a hill and one will disappear. I think that's the rapture. The stuff about the trumpet sounding and the Lord descending, I think that's the second coming for the millennial reign on earth. I think the tribulation happens in between those two events.
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T
Of course, Christ can do things any way He pleases, and if He chooses to remove His church from the world in a separate event prior to His return, He will. I do not, however, subscribe to the 'rapture' doctrine. There are three reasons for my position on this subject.
1) Although there is ample mention of Christ's return in glory in the Scriptures, the passages on which to build a 'rapture' doctrine are few, and open to debate.
2) The doctrine of the 'rapture' has arisen only in the last 150 years. No one in the New Testament church, none of the early church fathers, in fact no one in the church until the mid-nineteenth century had this belief, nor found it necessitated by the words of the text.
3) The idea of a 'rapture' (especially the pre-trib version of it) is, on a psychological level, pleasant and convenient. To be whisked away from the world just prior to the horrible hardships and devastation mentioned in Revelation and elsewhere would be a blessing, without doubt. But when in the past has God spared His church from hardship and persecution on a large scale? Rather, it seems to be an aspect of His economy to allow us to experience these things in order to refine us and to bring glory to His name. In short, I suspect that belief in the 'rapture' is often a result of wishful thinking and not of careful Bible study or a knowledge of church history.
*Daddycat braces himself for an inundation of disagreement
*
1) Although there is ample mention of Christ's return in glory in the Scriptures, the passages on which to build a 'rapture' doctrine are few, and open to debate.
2) The doctrine of the 'rapture' has arisen only in the last 150 years. No one in the New Testament church, none of the early church fathers, in fact no one in the church until the mid-nineteenth century had this belief, nor found it necessitated by the words of the text.
3) The idea of a 'rapture' (especially the pre-trib version of it) is, on a psychological level, pleasant and convenient. To be whisked away from the world just prior to the horrible hardships and devastation mentioned in Revelation and elsewhere would be a blessing, without doubt. But when in the past has God spared His church from hardship and persecution on a large scale? Rather, it seems to be an aspect of His economy to allow us to experience these things in order to refine us and to bring glory to His name. In short, I suspect that belief in the 'rapture' is often a result of wishful thinking and not of careful Bible study or a knowledge of church history.
*Daddycat braces himself for an inundation of disagreement
*
T
No-one knows when Jesus will return, and I believe it is indeed a sin to try and work it out. The Bible is 100% clear in telling us that we are not to know; it is, in short, "none of our business". Even Jesus Himself didn't know when He was on the Earth.
There has been a tragic history of person after person trying to predict the time of His return, all of which have been proven wrong. And yet, people still try to guess.
There has been a tragic history of person after person trying to predict the time of His return, all of which have been proven wrong. And yet, people still try to guess.
O
Once again we do not now when as what day or hour, but the Bible does tell us it will be after the Tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
O
Actually it is not a separate event from the 2nd coming, the rapture is a smaller event that incompasses the larger event of the 2nd coming. The 2nd coming consist of the return of Christ from heaven to the earth, the resurrection of the just, the rapture of the living saints, the destruction of the wicked, and the setting up of the Millenniual Kingdom. So all 5 of these smaller event make up the larger event known to us as the 2nd coming. As for biblical proof for the rapture being a part of the posttrib 2nd coming and not a pretrib event.
6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)
#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.
#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.
6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)
#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.
#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.
O
I left out one of the verses in proof #4 and am not able to edit so i will pose it now.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.
N
I was raised with hearing both arguments for the pre-trib and post-trib perspectives and leaned toward post-trib for most of my adult life seeing as there are very few scriptures that support a pre-trib rapture in the English translation of the bible. However, since Jesus often times in scripture compared His return to a Jewish wedding, when the opportunity came up to watch a couple of teachings on ancient Hebrew customs and traditions surrounding a Hebrew wedding as it pertains to the Pre-Trib rapture, I was simply amazed! WhileI don't remember the scripture references off hand, there are several scriptures found in the bible supporting a pre-trib rapture that we Gentiles, not being familiar with these customs, are unable to identify as having anything to do with Christ's return. I have a couple of the teachings recorded in part. If / when I can find the time, I may go through them and post some of those referernces here however, considering very few of us are Jewish, most of us may not see the necessary connections for these scriptures to make sense.
N
" If / when I can find the time, I may go through them and post some of those referernces here however, considering very few of us are Jewish (familiar with the traditions and customs involved), most of us may not see the necessary connections for these scriptures to make sense."
Just correcting myself so my previous post does not confuse anyone...
Anyways, I have come to the realization that a lot of general knowledge was lost after the era of first century church drew to a close and the church became predominantly gentile. Considering the entire nation of Israel was practically forced into exile by the Romans, the church lost base with it's Jewish heritage, something it will never be able to retrieve again.
However, while much beneficial knowledge was lost, I can see why God allowed this to happen. We can read in Paul's writings where a lot of Jewish converts were trying to force various Jewish "religious" customs on early christians that basically no longer had any spiritual significance in the new covenant.
It just goes to show that no matter how much we know, or think we know, God is our source and, without His Holy Spirit, we are lost.
Just correcting myself so my previous post does not confuse anyone...
Anyways, I have come to the realization that a lot of general knowledge was lost after the era of first century church drew to a close and the church became predominantly gentile. Considering the entire nation of Israel was practically forced into exile by the Romans, the church lost base with it's Jewish heritage, something it will never be able to retrieve again.
However, while much beneficial knowledge was lost, I can see why God allowed this to happen. We can read in Paul's writings where a lot of Jewish converts were trying to force various Jewish "religious" customs on early christians that basically no longer had any spiritual significance in the new covenant.
It just goes to show that no matter how much we know, or think we know, God is our source and, without His Holy Spirit, we are lost.
O
Actually the truth on the timing of the rapture is important. There will be many who believe in the false teaching of the pretrib rapture that when the tribulation starts and they are still here, will believe God has broken His promise to remove them. They will believe that He has lied to them, it will cause them to loose their faith and turn their backs on God. This is what the fruit of the pretrib false doctrine will be.
N
I've actually taken that possibility into consideration. Also I've noticed that many (not everyone) that I've talked to, that hold on to a pre-trib perspective, tend to use the "rapture" as an excuse not to do anything for the Lord. They seem to think that just because the rapture coul happen at any time, that this exempts them from having to partipate in the Great Commission.
For example, I once was talking to a friend about going over seas to do missions and he looked at me and said "It's not going to happen." I perceded to ask him why and his answer was "The rapture could happen any day now. You don't have time!" I was perplexed and thought to myself that God exists outside of time. In fact, God is the creator of time itself so if something is God's will, it will happen no matter what, because God has it all worked out anyways.
However, I've also noticed that a lot of folks who hold on to a post - trib perspective have adopted the mindset that "I'll do whatever I want to do until I see whatever sign of the end times, then I'll turn my life over to God".
I've seen bad fruit on both sides. That is why I personally prescribe to the idea that we are not promised tomorrow and could die any day which why we need to be ready as if the rapture could happen today because you really don't know when your time on this earth is up.
The rapture. The term rapture comes from the Latin translatio n, meaning “caught up,” in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The rapture, which is distinguished from the second coming of Christ, is taught in John 14:1–3; 1 Corinthians 15:51–57; and 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. Prior to the advent of the Tribulation, Christ will descend from heaven, catching up the church to be with Himself while the Tribulation is unleashed on an unrepentant and unbelieving world.
The pretribulation rapture is espoused for a number of reasons.80 (1) The nature of the Tribulation. The seventieth week of Daniel—the Tribulation—is an outpouring of the wrath of God throughout the seven years (Rev. 6:16–17; 11:18; 14:19; 15:1; 16:1, 19); it is described as God’s judgment ( Rev. 14:7; 15:4; 16:5–7; 19:2) and God’s punishment (Isa. 24:21–22). (2) The scope of the Tribulation. The whole earth will be involved (Isa. 24:1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 21; 34:2). It also involves God’s chastisement of Israel (Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:24). If this is the nature and scope of the Tribulation, it is inconceivable that the church will be on earth to experience the wrath of God. (3) The purposes of the Tribulation. The divine intentions of the Tribulation will be to judge people living on earth (Rev. 6:10; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 14:6; 17:8) and to prepare Israel for her King (Ezek. 36:18–32; Mal. 4:5–6). Neither of these pertain to the church. (4) The unity of the Tribulation. The Tribulation is the seventieth week of Daniel; Daniel 9:24 makes it clear that it has reference to Israel. (5) The exemption of the Tribulation. The church is the bride of Christ, the object of Christ’s love, not His wrath (Eph. 5:25). It would be a contradiction of the very relationship of Christ and the church for the church to go through the punishments of the Tribulation. Specific statements affirming the church will be kept from the Tribulation (cf. Rom. 5:9;81 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:13; Rev. 3:10).82 (6) The sequel of the Tribulation. The signs of Matthew 24 (and numerous other passages) were given to Israel concerning the second coming of Christ; no signs, however, were given to the church to anticipate the rapture (which means it will come suddenly, as pretribulationists have affirmed). “The church was told to live in the light of the imminent coming of the Lord to translate them in His presence (John 14:2–3; Acts 1:11; 1 Cor. 15:51–52; Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Tim. 6:14; James 5:8; 2 Pet. 3:3–4).”83
80 80. See Pentecost, Things to Come, pp. 193–218. 81 81. The statement “wrath” is emphatic in the Greek text, being at the end of the sentence, and additionally is definite by use of the article in tesorges. Both of these factors show that it is not just any wrath that is referred to, but a specific wrath—the wrath of the Tribulation. If God loved us while we were sinners He has promised to deliver us from the wrath to come.
82 82. For comprehensive studies of this subject see John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question, rev. ed. (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1979); and Gerald B. Stanton, Kept from the Hour (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1956).
83 83. Pentecost, Things to Come, p. 203.
@book{Enns,-4079,
author = {Enns, Paul P.},
title = {The Moody handbook of theology},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago, Ill.},
year = {1997, c1989},
pages = {390},
keywords = {Theology; Fundamentalism; Dispensationalism; Evangelicalism},
}
Second Advent of Christ. At the end of the Tribulation John envisions the triumphant Christ returning with His bride, the church (Rev. 19:6–8).15 The marriage of Christ and the church took place in heaven during the Tribulation period. Christ returns with His bride to inaugurate the wedding feast, the millennial kingdom that takes place on earth (19:9–10). John pictures Christ returning as a triumphant King—He has many crowns on His head (19:12)—who wages war against Satan, the Beast, and the unbelieving armies (19:11, 19). His weapon is the authority of His Word (19:13), with which He conquers and subjects the nations (19:15). He destroys the nations’ rulers and casts the Beast, false prophet (Second Beast), and Satan into the lake of fire for one thousand years (19:19–20:3). With the conquest of His enemies, Christ establishes the millennial kingdom upon earth. 15 15. The Greek word in the aorist tense, “came” (elthen), suggests that the marriage of Christ and His bride, the church, took place in heaven. Christ and His bride are now seen returning to earth for the marriage supper.
@book{Enns,-2343,
author = {Enns, Paul P.},
title = {The Moody handbook of theology},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago, Ill.},
year = {1997, c1989},
pages = {142},
keywords = {Theology; Fundamentalism; Dispensationalism; Evangelicalism},
}
@book{Enns,-2343,
author = {Enns, Paul P.},
title = {The Moody handbook of theology},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago, Ill.},
year = {1997, c1989},
pages = {142},
keywords = {Theology; Fundamentalism; Dispensationalism; Evangelicalism},
}
In recent years there have been several lengthy apologetics for posttribulationism that have appeared in print. While it is not possible to deal with them at length in this book, a few points should be noted:
1. Any view of the tribulation that views the Church as passing through it fails to take seriously several pieces of biblical data. As mentioned above, Dan. 9:24–27 gives as the purpose of the tribulation the purification of Israel. While that alone does not prove that the Church cannot be present, certainly the emphasis will be upon God’s dealing with Israel. Further, the wrath involved, while compatible with the hardness of Israel’s heart and the rebellion of the nations during the last days, is totally incompatible with the idea of the Church as the Bride of Christ. In fact, 1 Th. 1:10, in the context of the coming wrath of God in the Day of Lord, specifically states that believers of this Church Age are to be rescued from the wrath to come by the Lord Jesus Christ. That very point is expanded in 1 Th. 4 and 5, where the rapture of the Church is described. In addition, it is a simple biblical fact that the Church is never mentioned as part of the tribulation in the passages where the tribulation is described, such as Rev. 6–18. In fact, the Church is clearly present in Rev. 2 and 3, but all mention of it suddenly ceases when the wrath of God begins to be poured out. It does not appear again until ch. 19, after the second advent, where the marriage supper of the Lamb is celebrated (although the word church is not mentioned). Revelation 3:10 is a prophecy of the safety of the Church from the horrors of the tribulation, if its phrase “kept from the hour” is taken at face value, then we must conclude that the Church will not be present at all during that time. One of the purposes of 1 Th.5:4–8 is to show that the believers who are addressed—Church-Age people—are not part of the darkness characterizing the Day of the Lord, which begins at the rapture.7
2. The Bible presents the rapture as imminent (1 Th. 4 and 5), meaning that Christ could return for the Church at any moment. Posttribulationism and midtribulationism cannot maintain this view, since if Christ has not come and people know they are in the tribulation, they can predict the time that must elapse before the appearing of Christ.8
7 7See also David G. Winfrey, “The Great Tribulation: Kept ‘Out of’ or ‘Through’?” Grace Theological Journal 3 (1982):3–18; Thomas R. Edgar, “Robert H. Gundry and Revelation 3:10” in the same journal and issue, 19–49.8 8For additional discussion, see the series by John F. Walvoord, “Postribulationism Today” in Bibliotheca Sacra, Jan. 1975 through Jan. 1977, or John F. Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1976).
@book{Karleen,-2217,
author = {Karleen, Paul S.},
title = {The handbook to Bible study : with a guide to the Scofield study system},
publisher = {Oxford University Press},
address = {New York},
year = {1987},
keywords = {Scofield reference Bible system},
descriptor = {"This book is intended as a companion to the Scofield Reference Bible"--Pref.; Includes indexes.},
}
Overview of the End Times
It is not difficult to place the major events at the end of this age in relation to each other. Most premillennialists hold not only that the rapture of the Church is imminent, but that events of the twentieth century, especially in regard to the Middle East, have prepared the world for the fulfillment of the great prophecies connected with the regathering of Israel and the second coming of Christ. Certainly the stage is set in terms of moral, political, and economic climates.
In relation to the present age in which we are living, the next great event in the prophetic scheme will be the removal of the Church from the earth (by the rapture) and the beginning of the seventieth week of Dan.9:24–27. It is this crucial passage that lays out God’s plan for human history from the fifth century B.C. to the kingdom. Daniel 9:24 clearly states that the prophecy is intended to bring in righteousness for Daniel’s people. To take this as other than Israel (as the Church, for example) is to impose on the text what is not there. While we are not specifically told anywhere that the seven-year period will begin immediately after the rapture, it is reasonable to assume that the removal of the evil-restraining effect of the Holy Spirit through the Church will allow satanic influence to spread rapidly. The first three and a half years of the seventieth week are a period of outward calm, but of behind-the-scenes fomenting of anti-Semitism, especially on the part of the world leader of that time. At the middle of the seven years he breaks a peace treaty made with Israel (Dan.9:27) and proceeds to promulgate intense persecution of Jews. As this terror mounts, a judgment that is actually part of the wrath of God (Rev. 6:16–17), He continues to regather Israel in the land and to work in individual hearts to turn a remnant to the Messiah.
Spiritual deception will reach an all-time high as Satan promotes a false trinity imitating God, with himself corresponding to the Father, and the two beasts of Rev. 13 as the Son and Spirit. Yet at the same time God will be saving many from among Jews and Gentiles (Rev. 7). The tribulation is a time of pressure to bring Israel to God, and others incidentally along the way. As the political, social, economic, and deceptive spiritual movements of Daniel’s seventieth week reach a peak, God will conclude that rescuing work, drawing probably one third of ethnic Israel to Himself (Zech. 13:9).
The second advent of Christ will bring the period to a conclusion, as the King Himself returns to the Mount of Olives, bringing physical safety to a large number of believers, while defeating military forces arrayed against Jerusalem itself (Zech. 14:1–5). Probably between the rapture and the second advent the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs (Rev. 19:7–9), along with the judgment seat of Christ, where the works of believers during the Church Age are judged, the outcome to be bestowal of rewards, not loss of salvation (1 Cor. 3:11–15). After the second advent individual Gentiles will be judged, as the Lord Jesus Christ separates the “sheep and goats” (true and false Gentile believers who are alive at the time of His coming; (Mt. 25:31–46). Following a time of cleanup (Ezek. 39:12–15; Zech. 8:23) and publication of His return, the Lord Jesus Christ will reign as the Davidic King in Jerusalem for a thousand years, fulfilling the kingdom promises of the Old Testament and those surrounding His birth (Lk. 1:32).
This messianic kingdom—the final dispensation—will demonstrate, however, human beings’ inveterate sinfulness, for even in the presence of the King they will rebel and attempt to overthrow Him (Rev. 20:7–8). We should note that this will happen while Satan is bound. People will show that their sin natures alone (with no outside help from Satan) are confirmed in rebellion against God. These events at the end of the final dispensation, just prior to the judgment of the unsaved of all ages (Rev. 20:11–15), will serve to highlight God’s grace and our failure, even under near-ideal conditions.
The final judgment of human beings occurs in conjunction with the beginning of Satan’s eternal confinement. All of the unregenerate of all ages are brought to life to face God. They will be evaluated on the basis of their works and the presence of their names in the book of life, and will fail on both counts. Along with Satan, they will be cast into the lake of fire.
After this the so-called eternal state will be instituted, inaugurated by the creation of the new heaven and new earth (21:1). Actually the Bible tells us very little about it, devoting only the last two chapters of the book of Revelation to it. Many of the things we see there are even more difficult to understand than details of the earlier chapters of the book, due in part to the fact that we are being given insight into new creations of God that are far removed from anything we know around us in life during this age (1 Cor. 15:24–28).
@book{Karleen,-4785,author = {Karleen, Paul S.},
title = {The handbook to Bible study : with a guide to the Scofield study system},
publisher = {Oxford University Press},
address = {New York},
year = {1987},
keywords = {Scofield reference Bible system},
descriptor = {"This book is intended as a companion to the Scofield Reference Bible"--Pref.; Includes indexes.},
}
THE TIME OF THE RAPTURE
Almost all agree that the rapture is to be distinguished from the second coming in the sense that the former is when Christ comes for His own people and the latter is His coming with them in triumph and glory. But how far apart these two events are in time is the disputed question. Amillennialists believe that they both occur at the close of the tribulation days but that the rapture is immediately followed by the second coming (which is immediately followed by eternity without any millennium). Among premillennialists there are four views of the time of the rapture.
Posttribulation view. The posttribulationalists teach the same thing as amillennialists concerning the chronological relation of the rapture and the second coming (except that in posttribulationalism the second coming is followed by the millennium). According to this viewpoint the church will be present on earth during the tribulation period, and the comings for and with His saints occur in quick succession at the close of that period. Their principal arguments for this are:
1. The rapture and the second coming are described in the Scriptures by the same words, which indicates that they occur at the same time (1 Th 4:15 and Mt 24:27).
2. Since saints are mentioned as present during the tribulation days, the church is present on earth during that time (Mt 24:22).
3. It is predicted that a resurrection will occur at the beginning of the millennium, and since it is assumed that this is the same resurrection as that which occurs at the rapture, the rapture will take place just before the millennium (Rev 20:4).
4. The church can and will be preserved from the wrath of the tribulation period by supernatural protection while living through that time and not by deliverance from the period (as Israel was protected from the plagues while living in Egypt).
5. The Scriptures do not teach imminency; therefore, the rapture can be after the known events of the tribulation.
6. Posttribulationalism was the position of the early church.
Midtribulation. The midtribulationalists believe that Christ’s coming for His people will occur at the middle point of the tribulation period—that is 3 1/2 years after it begins and 3 1/2 years before the end at which time the Lord will return with His saints to set up His millennial kingdom. The arguments for this concept are:
1. The last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the same as the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15, and it is sounded at the middle of the tribulation.
2. Actually, the great tribulation is only the last half of Daniel’s seventieth week, and the church is promised deliverance only from that (Rev 11:2; 12:6).
3. The resurrection of the two witnesses pictures the rapture of the church, and their resurrection occurs at the middle of the tribulation (Rev 11:11).
Partial rapture. The partial rapturists teach that only those believers who are worthy will be taken out of the world before the tribulation begins, while others will be left to endure its wrath. For those left on earth, that time will serve as a time of purging. The idea is taken from verses like Hebrews 9:28 which seem to require preparedness as a prerequisite for meeting the Lord. The viewpoint is based on the idea that good works are necessary in order to qualify to be raptured, but the question is not answered, how many good works? Also, it seems to ignore the fact that 1 Corinthians 15:51 (ASV) says plainly that “we shall all be changed” in the rapture.
Pretribulation. The pretribulationalists hold that the rapture of the church will take place before the entire seven-year tribulation period begins. Then, seven years later, after the conclusion of the tribulation, the Lord will return to earth with His people to set up His millennial kingdom. Pretribulationalists base their conclusions on these arguments:
1. The tribulation is called “the great day of his wrath” (Rev 6:17). Believers, who know the Deliverer from the wrath to come (1 Th 1:10), are assured that God has not appointed them to wrath (1 Th 5:9). Since in the context of this latter verse Paul was speaking about the beginning of the day of the Lord or of the tribulation period (1 Th 5:2), it seems clear that he is saying that Christians will not be present during any part of that time of wrath but will be removed before any of it begins. That could only be true if the rapture is before the tribulation.
2. The risen Lord promised the church at Philadelphia to “keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10). Pretribulationalists relate this promise, like promises made in other letters to local churches, to the whole church (though obviously it will be experienced only by believers living when Christ comes), and they understand that the “hour of temptation” refers to the tribulation since it is said in the verse to be worldwide. Posttribulationalists claim that this promise (which they also relate to the tribulation) means only that Christians will be protected from the judgments of the tribulation, even though they will have to live through the time. However, it is important to notice that the promise is not only to keep from (and the preposition does mean from, not in) the trouble, but to keep from the hour (or time) of trouble. That seems to say complete exemption from being anywhere around during the time. It is well known that the phrase “keep from” is used only twice in the New Testament—here and in John 17:15. In the latter reference the Lord prayed that believers would be kept from the evil one, which prayer is answered by delivering us from the power of darkness and transferring us into the kingdom of His dear Son (Col 1:13). It is impossible to conceive of being in the location where something is happening and being exempt from the time of the happening. Furthermore, since the tribulation will be worldwide, exemption would necessitate removal from the earth before it begins.
Now, if the posttribulationalists be correct, then this promise will have to be reinterpreted in some other way by them, for many saints in the tribulation days will not be protected from the persecutions while living through the period, for we know that many will die for their faith (Rev 6:9–11; 7:9–14; 14:1–3; 15:1–3).
3. Second Thessalonians 2:1–12 sets up an important chronological sequence. Paul says that the day of the Lord cannot come (i.e., the tribulation cannot begin) until certain things happen (v. 3). One is that the man of sin must be revealed first (v. 3). But the man of sin cannot be revealed until something (v. 6, where the neuter is used) and someone (v. 7, where the masculine is used) are taken out of the way. Then and only then can the man of sin appear to do his evil work. Whatever or whoever the restrainer is, he is holding back the full manifestation of the man of sin. The Thessalonians knew what or who the restrainer is. In addition, it appears that he must be stronger than Satan since the man of sin is empowered by Satan. Most commentators identify the restrainer with the Roman Empire of Paul’s day with its advanced legal system. But was it or is any government more powerful than Satan? Only God is that, so behind whatever things that restrain must be the all-powerful person of God who Himself restrains. Undoubtedly God uses good government, elect angels, the influence of the Bible, and other means to restrain evil, but the ultimate power behind anything that restrains must be the power and person of God. Many pretribulationalists identify the Holy Spirit as the particular Person of the Godhead whose work it is to restrain (see Gen 6:3). Whether Paul is specifically referring to the Holy Spirit in this passage may be uncertain. However, whether we can make that specific identification or not does not affect the pretribulation argument from this passage. It goes like this:
The Restrainer is God, and the principal instrument of restraint is the God-indwelt church (see Eph 4:6; Gal 2:20; 1 Co 6:19). Our Lord declared of the divinely indwelt and empowered church that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Mt 16:18). The restrainer must be removed before the man of sin can be revealed and before the day of the Lord can begin. Since the Restrainer is ultimately God, and since God indwells all believers, either He must be withdrawn from the hearts of His people while they are left on earth to go through the tribulation, or else when He is withdrawn, all believers must be taken with Him in the rapture. The Bible nowhere even hints that Christians can be disindwelt, so the only alternative is that they will be taken out of the world before the tribulation begins. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit will not be working during that time. His presence will be here, but His residence will be removed when the church is taken. To say that the Restrainer is removed is not to say that the presence or activity of God is taken away from the earth. Many will be redeemed during the tribulation and this will be the work of God (Rev 7:14). Thus a proper interpretation of this passage involves a pretribulation rapture of the church.
@book{Ryrie,-4252,author = {Ryrie, Charles Caldwell},
title = {A survey of Bible doctrine},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago},
year = {1995, c1972},
keywords = {Theology.},
}
24:27–31 The coming of the King in the clouds. Christ’s second coming will be preceded by cosmic signs: darkened sun and moon, falling stars, and shaking planets (24:29). Then Christ will descend to earth out of the clouds (24:30). This event will happen quickly and visibly, like lightning across the sky (24:27). A trumpet call will send angels to gather the saved from throughout the earth (24:31). This refers not to the rapture of the church, which will occur before the Tribulation (see exposition on 1 Thess. 4:13–18), but to the actual coming of Christ to earth about seven years later at the end of the Tribulation, at which time he will inaugurate his millennial Kingdom (see exposition on Rev. 20:1–6). [Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28] @book{Willmington,-1015,
author = {Willmington, H. L.},
title = {Willmington's Bible handbook},
publisher = {Tyndale House Publishers},
address = {Wheaton, Ill.},
year = {1997},
pages = {543},
}
author = {Willmington, H. L.},
title = {Willmington's Bible handbook},
publisher = {Tyndale House Publishers},
address = {Wheaton, Ill.},
year = {1997},
pages = {543},
}
- Status