sacrifice in the 1000-year of peace?

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H

Heremon

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#61
Now...hold the doggie very still..heh heh.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#62
If the first resurrection of the righteous has already happened, then we have entered the 1000 years of His reign..
separate thread i suppose.

If satan has been bound for 1000 years, then why are we still not seeing the judgment come, after almost 2000 years?.
~ a thousand years is a symbolic PHRASE. it describes the full term of the Messianic portion of The Kingdom (THIS AGE), which continues into eternity (THE AGE TO COME) after The Judgment since His Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom.

~ if people are not saved and forgiven in THIS AGE, they will not be saved and forgiven IN THE WORLD TO COME.

~ why can't we even consider for a moment that the term a thousand years doesn't mean our literal YEARS?

~ The Kingdom came with Jesus at His First Advent (when He cast out demons as a sign He had bound the strong man and plundered his possession - the "possessed" man. out satan went).

~ if His Kingdom came at The First Advent, He is King NOW. if He is King Now, His Kingdom is NOW.
if His Kingdom is NOW, He is reigning NOW. if He is reigning NOW, we are in the symbolically described a thousand years Messianic reign.

~ did He say The Kingdom of God HAD COME?

Matthew 12:22-30
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

~ Jesus either cast the demon out of the devils' "possession", thereby plundering his house, which means Jesus had bound the strong man, or He didn't.

~ if He did, that means the kingdom of God has come upon you. if The Kingdom of God HAD come upon them, that Kingdom is NOW in place.

~ Jesus either meant what he said about having bound the strong man, or He didn't. the subject is specifically SATAN.

~ this is happening in the passage about the unpardonable sin! do we want to fall into the error of believing that The Kingdom of God DID NOT COME with Christ at the First Advent? or more specifically, cooperate with those who take it that one step further and commit the unpardonable sin?

Matthew 12:31-32
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

~ in this age, or in the age to come? what does that mean?

Matthew 13:39
and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Matthew 13:40
"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

~ just in case it isn't totally clear, look at Mark:

Mark 10:30
...who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.

~ the Judgment is coming...no future millennium to place anyone's false hope in.

The only reason the Jews have not been making animal sacrifice is because they have not had a place to perform them. Give them an earthly temple, and they will be sacrificing again. Why? Because they are still following the Law, and the Law demands animal sacrifice. One of the reasons we are not following the Law is we do not need a sacrifice, as Jesus sacrificed Himself for us.
EXACTLY! (btw: they HAVE been sacrificing animals...just not on the Temple Mount yet)

so are we to stamp that activity for APPROVAL?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#66
Heh heh! "Plan B from Outer Space"!!
I don't know if it could be called "Plan B", but there are a couple of things worth looking at. .
haha! love you preacher endof...
EXCELLENT POST!



hmmmm....let's see now...how to deconstruct Plan B?

25*For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

26*And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27*For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28*Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29*For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30*For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31*even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32*For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. (Ro 11:25-32).
~ so, the ONLY logical conclusion using Romans 11 is that ALL Israel will be saved, including judas iscariot and the pharisees. every single one (whether they lived and died in unbelief or not).

~ will God save all gentiles, too? since salvation came to the gentiles?

~ we're headed for universalism.

So if God had planned all along to allow the partial hardening of the heart of Israel, then why not reveal it in prophecy?

The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone. (Ps 118:22)

There is prophecy that this will occur. Yet we also need to see how God deals with His people. .
excellent observation, endof...God doesn't change, so He will deal with His People the same way He always has - an elect remnant, according to Grace:

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

Romans 9:29
And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Amos 4:11
"I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD.

~ Peter, apostle to the circumcision should have said something here about ALL israel being saved (particularly in a literal 1,000 earth reign), not just the remnant being spared:

2 Peter 2:4-10
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

If God knew Adam would fail, why did he wait until Adam ate of the tree?

If God knew Abraham would not withhold Isaac from the altar, why put him through it?

If God knew Israel would fail, why put the blessings and the curses before them as a choice?

If God knew Israel would be unable to enter the promised land, why bring them to the border?

If God knew Israel would reject the Messiah, why afford them the opportunity to embrace Him and bring in the eternal kingdom?

The last two questions are corollary.
God brought Israel to the Promised Land/God offered Israel their Messiah

Israel drew back from the Promised Land through fear and unbelief/Israel drew back from Messiah through fear and unbelief

Israel wandered in the desert apart from the Promised Land/Israel wanders the world apart from Messiah

Israel finally enters the Promised Land/Israel finally accepts Messiah

God is a Just God and has always offered the opportunity to do what is right, even knowing the wrong will be chosen. Nobody will ever say God is unjust and tempts people to sin.
He is also a God of hope, and will also continue to hold out that opportunity to do what is right.
good post! what does it say here though?

Israel finally enters the Promised Land/Israel finally accepts Messiah
but....who is israel?...how can we rest assured that as God has said, all Israel will be saved if we don't understand election and the PROMISE received by faith?

John 1:47
When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."

Romans 2:28
A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Phillipians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

Romans 9:6-18
God’s Sovereign Choice
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, hough they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
 
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Dutch41

Guest
#67
Actually, that is not true. With just a short look, I find in Ezk 43:18-27 the sin offering talked about.
You are complere right...
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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#68
The 1000 years:

And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Symbolic? Nah.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#69
The 1000 years:

And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Symbolic? Nah.
key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand > is there a real chain and key?

And he laid hold of the dragon > did the angel take hold of a real dragon?

the serpent of old > did he take hold of a serpent?

a short time >> how long is the short time? what if it's a hundred years - would you decide that's a short time, or a long time?
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#70
key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand > is there a real chain and key?

And he laid hold of the dragon > did the angel take hold of a real dragon?

the serpent of old > did he take hold of a serpent?

a short time >> how long is the short time? what if it's a hundred years - would you decide that's a short time, or a long time?
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Doesn't matter, because he will be bound for 1000 years, just as it is written. Of course, John might have been mistaken, the 5 times he mentions the 1000 years.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#71
Yes. so the KEY & CHAIN is literal.

1) how do you know this?

Yes. so the angel took hold of a literal DRAGON.

1) how do you know this?
2) is Satan a real dragon or is this another creature the angel took hold of while he was grabbing satan?

Yes. so the angel took hold of a literal SERPENT.

1) how do you know this?
2) is Satan a real serpent or is this another creature the angel took hold of while he was grabbing satan?

is the devil a separate creature the angel took hold of while he was already holding a dragon and a serpent and satan and a chain and a key?

OR,

since the text says satan, devil, dragon, serpent are all the same entity: you contend that the literal devil called satan is in actuality a serpent-dragon? he looks like a serpent dragon who is a devil called satan?

Satan IS a serpent/dragon creature?

can this be supported in any way, VW?

Doesn't matter, because he will be bound for 1000 years, just as it is written. Of course, John might have been mistaken, the 5 times he mentions the 1000 years.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

do these passage indicate that time (a thousand years) doesn't mean to God what it means to us?

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

finally, is Jesus a REAL:

VINE
DOOR
GATE
SHEPHERD
BREAD
STONE
ROCK
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#72
It is my contention that present Christian teaching concerning the last things relies too much on the belief of a future earthly millennial kingdom. Therefore, it may be profitable to see whether the idea that the thousand years mentioned by John refers to a future kingdom is consistent with what the NT , and Revelation in particular, teaches on Satan’s binding, the resurrection and the reign of the saints. Additionally, we should explore the clues provided by Revelation’s literary framework, style and structure, as those arising from the biblical use of the expression "one thousand years".

1. On whether there is chronological continuity between Revelation 19 and 20

Fundamental to a belief on a wholly future earthly millennial kingdom is the assumption of a chronological continuity between the visions of Chapter 19 and those of Chapter 20; that is, the defeat of the beast, the kings of the earth and their armies is temporally followed by Satan’s binding and the coming to life and reign of beheaded saints. However, that this is the case is by no means obvious. Most students of Revelation have long ago noticed that while in each vision there is some kind of orderly intensification (the seals, the trumpets, the vials), there are also discontinuities among them, as if each series of visions showed at least partially overlapped events.

From written records, we learn that the first to point out this characteristic feature of Revelation was the millennarian Church Father, Victorinus bishop of Pettau (who died ca. 304). At the end of his remarks on Ch. 7 he wrote, concerning the similarities between the seals, the trumpets and the bowls: "We must not regard the order of what is said, because frequently the Holy Spirit, when He has traversed even to the end of the last times, returns again to the same times, and fills up what He had [before] failed to see. Nor must we look for order in the Apocalypse; but we must follow the meaning of those things which are prophesied." (Commentary on the Apocalypse; in A. Roberts & J. Donaldson, Ed., The Antenicene Fathers; Repr. 1989, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 7:352). In other words, the Seer from Patmos leads us time and again from the beginning to the end of salvation history, in several partially paralel sections that follow a pattern of repetition with elaboration. This approach, later called recapitulation, is one of the keys for understanding Revelation.

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#73
Most interpreters from different schools agree that there is an evident discontinuity between Chapters 11 and 12: From the apparent end ushered by the seventh trumpet we are unexpectedly carried back to the time before Jesus Christ’s birth. Now, we can find clues that allows us to delineate seven sections in the book:

[1]. The glorious Savior ruling His churches : Ch. 1-3 (Introduction, messages to the Churches; turning point: John is called up to heaven).

[2]. The Lamb as the revealer and executor of God’s plan: Ch. 4-7 (heavenly vision, God & the Lamb, the book, the seals; turning point: "God will wipe away every tear...").

[3]. The proclaming of God’s rule and warnings of the coming judgments: Ch. 8-11 (The censer, the trumpets, the temple, the two witnesses; turning point: the opening of God’s heavenly temple).

[4]. The Battle of Satan and his followers against Christ and His church: Ch. 12-14 (The Woman, the male Child and the Dragon; the beasts; the Lamb & the 144,000, the great multitude in heaven; turning point: the harvest of the earth).

[5]. The wrath of God poured on earth: Ch. 15-16 (The plagues, the bowls; turning point: judgment, "the plague was so terrible").

[6]. The victory of the Lamb over the unrighteous of the earth: Ch. 17-19 (Babylon, her downfall, heavenly celebration, judgment; turning point: "The rest of them were killed...").

[7]. The final triumph over Satan and the eternal blessing of the saints: Ch. 20-22 (Satan’s binding, the saints raised and reigning, Satan’s final attack, general resurrection and judgment, new heavens and earth, heavenly Jerusalem, epilogue).

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#74
Colin Brown, Editor of the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1975-1978), says that "there is a very strong case for seeing the whole book as structured in seven series of visions corresponding to the seven days of the creation story in Gen. 1, each of which looks at the Church in the gospel age. The visions are thus seven sets of parallel visions of the church and its tribulations between the two advents of Christ. In this view the period of a thousand years refers to the present era culminating in a final outburst of Satanic activity prior to the final destruction of all the evils that afflict man." (sub voce "chilias", 2:702). I agree, and let me show you why I believe that Chapter 20 does not follow chronologically Chapter 19, but starts another section, the last one, culminating with the eternal state. At the start of Chapter 20 we learn that Satan has been bound. with a goal that’s carefully specified by John: "to keep him from deceiving the nations any more...". So we must accept that there are still nations that can be deceived, and 20:7f dramatically confirms this. However, in 19: 11-21 we have learned that all earthly foes of God have been utterly destroyed, so nobody is left that may be deceived!

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#75
2. The binding of Satan (Revelation 20:1-3)

To understand what John wants to convey with this vision, we first must look to other NT texts related to the binding of Satan. He was initially defeated by Jesus in the desert (Matt. 4:1-11). Afterwards, he suffered defeat after defeat during Christ’s ministry. To those who accused Jesus of driving out demons by Beelzebub’s (= Satan’s) power; He answered that it was actually by God’s power that he drove them out, and asked: "how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house" (Matt 12:29). It should be pointed out that the Greek verb deö, to bind, here translated "ties up" is the very same verb used of Satan’s binding in Rev 20. Those who object that Satan is still struggling to carry out his deceptive work (e.g., 1 Cor 7:5; 2 Cor 3:15; 11:3f, 13-15) overlook that the binding implies a restriction, not total neutralization. For example, the very same verb (deö) is employed of John the Baptist’s binding by Herod (Matt. 14:3), which nevertheless didn’t prevent John from sending his disciples to Jesus (Matt. 11:1-7). Another example of this verb used to depict a relative restriction is found in Romans 7: 2 , "For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives."

Jesus massive atack against Satan’s kingdom is stressed in many NT passages. For example, Jesus’ remarked that "the gates of Hades" would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18). The image is that of a city (Hades) besieged by an adversary (the Church) strong enough to throw down the city’s gate, thus indicating the offensive power of God’s people. The Lord declared "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" in connection with the mission of the 72 (Luke 10:18, cf. Rev 12:9!). Similarly we read: "now the prince of this world will be driven out"; "the prince of this world now stands condemned"; he has no hold on Jesus (John 12:31; 16:11; 14:30).

Paul asserted that in his ascension, Christ "led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men" (Eph 4:8, quoting Ps 68:18); "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Col 2:15). The decisive battle was, then, already won at the cross, as also Hebrews reminds us: "he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy (katargesei, "render powerless") him who holds the power of death –that is, the devil" (Heb 2:14).

Thus, the uniform teaching of the NT is that the decisive victory over Satan was won at Christ’s FIRST COMING; it was then that Satan was bound.

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#76
2. The binding of Satan (Revelation 20:1-3) continued FROM ABOVE

It is on this ground that the victory of believers against the devil is boldly proclaimed. Paul was commissioned by the Lord himself to "open their (Jews’ and Gentiles’) eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" (Acts 26:18). Believers are more than conquerors (Rom 8:37-39). They are aware of Satan’s schemes (2 Cor 2:11). They have been rescued from the realm of darkness (Col 1:13). The Father and Jesus protect them from the Evil One (John 17:15; 2 Tess 3:3; 1 Pet 1:1; 1 John 5:18). Christians can stand against Satan’s plots with the armour of God, and they can succesfully resist the devil (Jas 4:7; 1 Pet 5:8). In a real sense, believers already "have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13b, 14b).

The NT clearly teaches that the time during which Satan is prevented from deceiving the nations is the present Gospel era. So Simeon’s praise, the Nunc Dimitis, finishes thus: "a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel" (Luke 2:32). In the ministry of John the Baptist, Luke saw the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3-5, and said "and all mankind will see God’s salvation" (Luke 3:6). When Jesus saw the centurion’s faith, He said: "many will come from the east and west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 8:11). To the Samaritan woman He said: "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem." (John 4:21). After the resurrection, He commanded the eleven to "go and make disciples from all nations" (Matt 28:19), or, in Luke´s account, "to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8), since "repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in His name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47). Furthermore, after Jesus healed the man with a shrivelled hand on a Sabbath, Matthew lets us know that "This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: « ... in His name the nations will put their hope» " (Matt. 12:17,21).

Throughout the Book of Acts we witness the promise to the nations becoming a tangible reality. Thus, the gospel is first addressed to Jews "from every nation under heaven" and they convert to Christ by the thousands (Acts 2:5, 41, 47; 5:16, 42; 6:1,7). After Stephen’s death, the Gospel reaches the Samaritans and the Ethiopian (Acts 8), and then other Gentiles (Acts 10). This calling of the Gentiles was seen by James as in agreement with the Scripture as signalling the time when "the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord" (Acts 15:13-18, quoting Amos 9:11f).

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#77
2. The binding of Satan (Revelation 20:1-3) continued FROM ABOVE


When people attempted to perform sacrifices to Barnabas and Paul in Lystra, Paul said: "We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God...In the past, He (God) let all nations go their own way" (Acts 14:15f, emphasis mine). Returning to Antioch in Syria, Barnabas and Paul reported that God "had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles" (v. 27). Similarly, in his address in the Areopagus Paul said: "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead" (Acts 17:30f, emphasis mine). Furthermore, Luke reports that at Gentile Christians at Ephesus burned their sorcery scrolls (19:19). To unbelieving Jews at Rome, Paul remarked "I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!" (28:28). Paul explained to Timothy that Christ "was preached among the nations" (1 Tim 3:16). From the resurrection on, Satan can only blind those who stubbornly refuse to accept the Gospel (Rom 1:18-32; 2 Cor 4:4; 1 Tim 1:20; 5:15).

In the very book of Revelation, the devil cannot prevent, notwithstanding his furious efforts through his allies, the Gospel from being preached "to every nation, and tribe, and language, and people" (Rev 14:6; Cf. 10:11). Also, the gathering before God’s throne of people from all nations, that Satan could obviously not deceive, is clearly described: "with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation"; "there before me there was a great multitude that no-one could count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb" (Rev 7:9; 14:6).

Finally, from 2 Thessalonians 2 we may infer still another sense in which Satan is restrained, and this is that he cannot set up the kingdom of the Man of Sin. Even when it is very debatable who and what is hindering him, there is no question an obstacle, most probably a God ordained one.

In conclusion, if Satan was bound at Christ’s first coming, it follows that the period styled by John as "one thousand years" is not some future earthly kingdom, but the present Gospel age. As we pursue this study, further evidence for this view will be presented.

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20

END PART 2
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#78
THE THOUSAND YEARS OF REVELATION 20
[Part 2]


In the first part of this essay one of the outstanding events that occurs during the thousand years, namely Satan’s binding, was analyzed and interpreted within the framework of NT teaching. Now it is the turn of the remaining major event, namely the resurrection and reign of the saints. This is what the text , Rev 20: 4-6, actually says (the former is a translation as literal as possible; the later is the text from NIV):

3. Those who reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4-6)

"And I saw thrones and they were seated on them, and judgment was given to them, even [or and] the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and who did not worship the beast nor his image and did not receive the mark on their forehead and on their hands. And they lived [again] and reigned with the Christ [for a] thousand years. The other dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy he who has a part in the first resurrection; the second death has no authority over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him for the thousand years."

"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years (the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended). This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (NIV)

The right interpretation of these verses is a much debated issue among committed Christians. The task is difficult, but not hopeless. We should begin from the immediate context, the larger context of the book of Revelation, and the even larger context of the Bible as a whole. We should employ the principle of the analogy of faith, i.e., that Scripture interprets Scripture; thus we can gain a better understanding of difficult texts if we see them in the light of clearer texts. This is particularly important when we deal with a writing that makes liberal use of symbolic language as the present one.

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#79
3. Those who reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4-6) cont. from ABOVE

For a proper understanding of what this controversial passage says, it may be profitable first to note what it fails to mention. The reason for this unusual approach is that, believe it or not, many interpreters put into this text a lot of things that simply are not there. They assume –usually on the basis of a preconceived framework- that these things are implicit. I will not challenge, for the time being, the validity of this assumption, but simply point out that the following things are not actually mentioned:

[1] Location. We are not told if the reign John saw took place in a heavenly or earthly realm.

[2] A temple. In fact, no building at all is mentioned.

[3] Sacrifices. No worship is described.

[4] Jerusalem. Neither heavenly nor earthly Jerusalem are mentioned.

[5] Israel. Any mention of the land of Israel (Eretz Israel) is lacking

[6] The Jewish people. Not a single Jewish name, no tribe at all, is mentioned.

[7] The Gentile nations. They are not in sight in this part of John’s vision.

[8] Earthly life conditions. Peaceful living, the birth of babies, house building, harvesting and the like are conspicuously absent.

Therefore, those Christians who believe that this text depicts an earthly kingdom are forced to supply some or all of these things to John’s succint description. They usually draw plenty of material from OT prophecies that speak of a glorious future Davidic kingdom. Many of those who embrace this approach adhere to it because they believe it to be required by a literal interpretation of the Bible.

However, a little reflection will show that this approach falls short of a so called "consistent literalism." Some early Church Fathers -most notably Irenaeus of Lyon- thought that here an earthly rule of the Church after Christ’s second coming is envisaged. No early orthodox millennialist entertained for a minute that the thousand years would be a Jewish kingdom. Therefore, they had to apply all OT prophecies not to Israel as a nation, but to the Christian church.

The Thousand Years of Revelation 20
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#80
3. Those who reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4-6) cont. FROM ABOVE

On the other hand, some current day exegetes start from the basic assumption that prophecies addressed to Israel must be fulfilled physically (although they call it a literal fulfillment, actually a physical, as oposed to a spiritual, fulfillment is intended). Since this did not happen in the past, these prophecies must be fulfilled in the future, and they find no other time for this but the thousand years of Revelation 20. Some relevant prophecies in this regard are found in Isaiah (9, 11, 24-27, 35, 65-66), Ezekiel 37-48; Zechariah 12,14,etc. However, in order to apply all these prophecies to the one thousand years period mentioned in Revelation 20, some significant concessions have to be made. This is because these prophecies depict the glorious future of Israel with a language clearly resembling OT culture, to wit:

[1] The kingdom will be established and kept by sheer power.

[2] The nations will serve Israel

[3] Transportation will require ancient means, like asses, horses and chariots.

[4] Weapons will be old fashioned (spears, swords, shields and the like).

[5] Sacrifices will be restablished as under Moses’Law

[6] New Moons, sabbath days and all OT feasts will be celebrated again.

For belief in a literal earthly kingdom to be sustained, at least some of these things must be understood in figurative, or at least typical ways. But in so doing, the very same principle on which this view is based is undermined. Those who believe in a future Jewish millennium cannot have it both ways.