The Necessity of Tongues For Prayer Language

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R

Raeshelle

Guest
#41
If the Lord would have you share something relevant, please do so, but as it is, all I am asking is from what I have shared is to take time out and take it to the Lord Jesus in prayer... (in regular langauge.. not the prayer one), because I have given enough reasons for alarms. Only God can cuase the increase. Only God can reveal that which is of Him and that which is not.. in according to our faith wriietn plainly in the scriptures
It is so nice that you feel you have the right to tell us how to pray.. But I think if we are christians and have been for a few years and have seen God answer our prayers we must be doing something right..
So what is working for me I will continue to do.. And you do what works for you..
God Bless..

The Necessity of Tongues For Prayer Language -

do you need us to discuss this?

or do u just need to let us all know how you feel about it? i wish we have blogs on here :p, so people can post these topics under blogs :D

or do you want us to answer u and defend what we believe in? and start a forest fire?? lol
Abing I have wondered the same thing so many times about alot of these forums they just seem to be here to stir up arguments.
:D I am on your side here .. lol
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#42
It is so nice that you feel you have the right to tell us how to pray.. But I think if we are christians and have been for a few years and have seen God answer our prayers we must be doing something right..
So what is working for me I will continue to do.. And you do what works for you..
God Bless..
Well, for the sake of my "argument", if you were to tell those that pray to Mary to take all the reasons why they should not pray to Mary that you gave by the scriptures and take that to the Lord in prayer... and insisting that they pray to Jesus and not to Mary in doing so... to get the answer, then you can see why I "insisted" on that form of prayer that is available to you and has been for some time, because I would really like the Lord Jesus to answer that prayer. Okay? Try it. It's not like you are saying you can't pray to Jesus in that way, are you?
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#43
Actually, you cannot use the Book of Acts to apply the current supernatural experiences to it. Readers do not get the full story and thereby are making assumptions on the historical account by reading inbetween the lines and ignoring the other verses in content... as well as all the commandments of Jesus in how one gets the Spirit.. all the promises that is associated with this salvation, and what is regarded in keeping with the faith and what is not of faith, written plainly elsewhere.

In other words, there is either one hope of our calling and one baptism of the Holy Spirit... or there isn't. Either we are complete in Christ or.. we are not. Either we are filled and hunger no more nor thirst no more.. or we are hungering and thirsting for more, filling and never can say that we are filled. Either Jesus is the only Way to the Father or He is not the only way for the "Holy Spirit" is another way. Either Jesus is the only Door or there is another door to the Holy Spirit. Either Jesus is the Only Mediator or... the Holy Spirit is also. Either Jesus is the Head of the Church or we talk and act like the Holy Spirit is. Either Jesus' name is above every other name.. or He isn't.

Just because people read in Acts 4 that it "looks" like the Holy Spirit fell on the "believers" again, they forget the beginning of Acts 4 about how there were new Jewish converts to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, you can be in the same place when preaching the Gospel when new believers have been saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost... doesn't mean you were baptized by the Holy Ghost again just because you were there in that place when it happened. What would be the point of it if that was signifying that the new converts were saved? Did you become unsaved for that to happen to you again? No. But one can misinterpret a spirit to be of God to change the testimony that there is another baptism of the Holy Spirit when scriptures in instructions to the churches clearly says not...and the focus in their walk with Christ has changed to disorderly practises, mimicking the doctrines of devils thus allowing believers to give heed to seducing spirits by seeking another spirit to receive.

Again, I am asking you to take this matter to the Lord Jesus in prayer if you value your relationship with the Bridegroom. Only He can show you what is of Him and what is not.
So let's just erase the book of Acts... wait... doesn't the bible talk about how adding to or taking away from scripture being an.. dare I use the word?
 
A

Abing

Guest
#44
Hi sister in Christ,

If the Lord would have you share something relevant, please do so, but as it is, all I am asking is from what I have shared is to take time out and take it to the Lord Jesus in prayer... (in regular langauge.. not the prayer one), because I have given enough reasons for alarms. Only God can cuase the increase. Only God can reveal that which is of Him and that which is not.. in according to our faith wriietn plainly in the scriptures.
even tho u didnt answer my question, i guess u started this thread to let us all know how you feel about this issue... well anyways, from what you've said, i totally agree!!! only GOD!, now, .. dun dun dun im out
 
R

Raeshelle

Guest
#45
This whole thing I thought was about if we should pray in tongues or not.. What is this about praying to Mary?? That is totally off topic.. But like I said You pray your way I will pray my way.. If I desire to do so in tongues that is up to me.. God Bless. This is my last post on this thread.
 
R

RoosterNZ

Guest
#46
I reckon how a person prays is between them and God, if God is answering well then you know your getting through if He ain't then you know you got a problem lol - me personally don't believe tongue is for today BUT again I say thats between You and God, and I give you credit for praying or for trying to pray to God and not some Fat man on log eating sushi. Also just another thing Why not pray for the people you disagree with instead of cramming ya beliefs down em' believe me I find over my years of experience as a Christian its easier to just pray for them, and if they ask you a question then answer once and stop arguing with everything and everyone, Show them you are a Christian by your love and prayers for them, believe me God has predestined who He gonna have Serve Him anyway. Ok thats all I am going to say on this subject. God Bless you all - Got prayers well you can email them to me =)
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#47
Exactly Roo, Im not sayin you cant show ppl Godly correction, If its done in prayer and love ( if you think about it, nobody wants to hurt someones feelins on purpose), especially if they say its something God gave em to say. Good thing God looks on the heart.
 

NoahsDad

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2006
594
6
0
#48
*lol* Abing

I agree. I was talking to Stillwaters earlier about how there appears to be two camps embroiled in some sort of holy war. If the conversation isn't about condemning people over being a charismatic, it's about once saved always saved. The sad part is it seems one side in particular seems to like to try to get a rise out of the other.
I concurr aswell kingdom,We are in a sort of a holy war
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take to you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breast-plate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, with which ye will be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching for this purpose with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; WAIT!!!!!! Did Paul Dare say PRAY IN THE SPIRIT?
(Personally If I saw some of these guys behind me on a battlefield I'd prolly be inclined to stab them First so they dont stab me in the back for not believing exactaly like they do,Then face the enemy.) THIS IS AN ANALOGY OF BATTLE,I'm not saying I want to stab you!
The one thing most ,I've noticed in this set of verses describing the battle armor is the fact there aint any BACK covering,Recon its because our Brothers and Sisters in Christ are sposed to Cover our backs and not stab us in them while we defend them?
Now I know Nothing of the speaking in tongues,other than it happened to me once,scared the poo outa me,But I knew what I was saying,But that aint what was coming out of my mouth! And I've never done it again,And That time I didnt ask for it,So I wasn't SEEKING another spirit! I wasnt seeking anything but fellowship with My Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST,
And in that prayer He Told me He'd teach me what I needed to be saved,So I don't recon I need you to.Nor did anyone here ask you for anything but Fellowship,
Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing you in any of the chatrooms as of late,Do you come here to chat or bash/Teach other denominations of their faulty doctrine?I really wish those who like to come to the forums inorder to share their learning would take the time to get to know some of those whom they would potentualy hurt while they are doing this kind of teaching/warning r whatever they want to call it today.
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#49
CMW and Noahsmom. We all know that some people on here are right no matter what.. But the way I look at it is I know what I have experienced in my walk with God and No one can shake that.. Yes it does upset me to see how people can come on here and all they do is tear down others.. Not sure why that makes them feel so much better about themselves.. There is nothing you or I can say to change them, so I guess the best we can do is pray that God can show them the error of their ways..
Oh and for the record I don't care if you believe in tongues or not.. That is up to you.. Even though I do believe I do not feel that I have the right to tell you that you are wrong in what you believe..
thanks rae rae for the good advice and encouragement..:)
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
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#50
Actually, you cannot use the Book of Acts to apply the current supernatural experiences to it. Readers do not get the full story and thereby are making assumptions on the historical account by reading inbetween the lines and ignoring the other verses in content... as well as all the commandments of Jesus in how one gets the Spirit.. all the promises that is associated with this salvation, and what is regarded in keeping with the faith and what is not of faith, written plainly elsewhere.
The verses in Acts to me are pretty plain that describe a subsequent experience of the Spirit, that may, but not necessarily come at a person's conversion.



In other words, there is either one hope of our calling and one baptism of the Holy Spirit... or there isn't. Either we are complete in Christ or.. we are not. Either we are filled and hunger no more nor thirst no more.. or we are hungering and thirsting for more, filling and never can say that we are filled. Either Jesus is the only Way to the Father or He is not the only way for the "Holy Spirit" is another way. Either Jesus is the only Door or there is another door to the Holy Spirit.
Either Jesus is the Only Mediator or... the Holy Spirit is also. Either Jesus is the Head of the Church or we talk and act like the Holy Spirit is. Either Jesus' name is above every other name.. or He isn't.

We must remember that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus, so in a sense, yes the Spirit is the Head of the Church. The Spirit is God as much as Jesus. Whether the Spirit speaks to you, or Jesus from heaven, it is the same thing. Whether you talk to the Spirit, or talk to Jesus, it's the same thing.

Note that in Revelations it says let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. It

Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


It is also clear to me from a number of scriptures that the early christians had a personal relationship and experience with the Holy Spirit .

Act 21:11 And coming to us, and taking Paul's belt, and binding his hands and feet, he said, The Holy Spirit says these things: So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man whose belt this is, and will deliver him into the hands of the nations.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, So, then, separate Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart for you to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, Go near and join yourself to this chariot.

Act 10:19 And while Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, three men are looking for you.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let the one who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the Water of Life freely.

There is nothing in scripture which says we cannot address Holy Spirit as Holy Spirit.




Just because people read in Acts 4 that it "looks" like the Holy Spirit fell on the "believers" again, they forget the beginning of Acts 4 about how there were new Jewish converts to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, you can be in the same place when preaching the Gospel when new believers have been saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost... doesn't mean you were baptized by the Holy Ghost again just because you were there in that place when it happened. What would be the point of it if that was signifying that the new converts were saved? Did you become unsaved for that to happen to you again? No. But one can misinterpret a spirit to be of God to change the testimony that there is another baptism of the Holy Spirit when scriptures in instructions to the churches clearly says not...and the focus in their walk with Christ has changed to disorderly practises, mimicking the doctrines of devils thus allowing believers to give heed to seducing spirits by seeking another spirit to receive.

When we ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit He does not give us a snake when we ask for a fish.
The believers spoke in tongues and prophesied so clearly they did receive the Spirit again. There is not only an inward filling of the Spirit but also an outward baptism (immersion) of the Spirit. Paul in Heb 6:2 mentions Baptisms (plural).

Jesus for example did not do any ministry (ie heal the sick , miracles etc) until he had received the baptism of the Spirit at His water baptism. Even the Son of God had to have a subsequent experience of the Spirit. His occurred at his water baptism when the Spirit came upon him as a dove.


Why is everything only about "getting saved".





Again, I am asking you to take this matter to the Lord Jesus in prayer if you value your relationship with the Bridegroom. Only He can show you what is of Him and what is not.

And He's shown me it is of Him. Do you speak in tongues yourself? Have you learnt to speak in tongues the proper biblical way as you say, yourself? If you do then you know what you are talking about, if not, maybe you should seek and obtain the gift of tongues as you say it should be done biblically first, and then tell us to take the matter to Jesus in prayer.
 
I

italiansunset

Guest
#51
Kudo's to those of you who have the correct and full understanding to tackle such a heavy and tough subject... I am lost in this. Having read through this all I am more confused than ever...
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#52
There is a point where my replies of appeals will only be seen as argumentative like now, I will see it that way as coming from me from this point on in this thread. I cannot convince anyone and in no way did I believe that I could, but raise concern and give pause for those involved in it.. to take it to the Lord Jesus in prayer for I believe only God can cause the increase, but as it is.... no one is hearing me to do even that. Nuff' said.
 

NoahsDad

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2006
594
6
0
#53
Kudo's to those of you who have the correct and full understanding to tackle such a heavy and tough subject... I am lost in this. Having read through this all I am more confused than ever...
I'm with you ,I don't understand nothing about the gifts, all i know is,Some get the visible ones and some get the invisible ones.
but one thing is sertain and aparent in all gifts,The ones that truely have them dont flaunt them,but you can see them anyway.
Personally tongues speaking kinda freaks me out,and the slaying in the spirit one does too,I've seen fakers and I've seen real ones,I've even had preachers try to push me down,I'm inclined to believe as baruch does in some points,But I wont sit back and let folx beat up my friends in the name of the lord any longer ,its starting to be come clear to me ,that some churches have stoped teaching the difference between admonishment(which is what you are supposed to do if a brother or sister has fallen) and rebuke.And the deffinition of the two.Mostly here lately all I'm seeing in these threads is rebuke when all thats meant is admonishment.Thus all thats come out of them is confusion and hurt on both parts,The poster ,and the reader alike.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#54
There is a point where my replies of appeals will only be seen as argumentative like now, I will see it that way as coming from me from this point on in this thread. I cannot convince anyone and in no way did I believe that I could, but raise concern and give pause for those involved in it.. to take it to the Lord Jesus in prayer for I believe only God can cause the increase, but as it is.... no one is hearing me to do even that. Nuff' said.
That's because we are tired bro. One side says this. The other side says that. One believes this way but doesn't believe that way. The other side believes that way but doesn't believe this way. It's really getting old my friend.

Personally, I feel that if you are not seeing the hand of God move powerfully in your life, your church or through your ministry then you really shouldn't be trying to advise anyone because chances are that you may be just as clueless as you believe everyone else is.

Please don't be offended by my statement after all it is just an opinion.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#55
That's because we are tired bro. One side says this. The other side says that. One believes this way but doesn't believe that way. The other side believes that way but doesn't believe this way. It's really getting old my friend.

Personally, I feel that if you are not seeing the hand of God move powerfully in your life, your church or through your ministry then you really shouldn't be trying to advise anyone because chances are that you may be just as clueless as you believe everyone else is.

Please don't be offended by my statement after all it is just an opinion.
I am not offended. Just sounding the alarm by His grace.

Let us address what Jesus said about the description of a thief.

John 10:7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door:

The Holy Spirit is in us and not inbetween us.

Jesus is the ONLY Mediator between us and God. His Word literally means that.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This erroneous belief that the Holy Spirit makes direct interecessions for us is due to bad translations in the other Bibles.

Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. New International Version

Take note of the bad grammar above in verse 27. How can the "he" which is a third Person that is seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit to know the mind of the Spirit, be the "Spirit" of what the "he" of the King James Bible is written in keeping the pronoun of the he in regards to the third Person as apart from us and apart from the Spirit?

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

This is in keeping with the truth of the scriptures in 1 Timothy 2:5 which is also found in NIV as the same.

Now read the King James Bible verses above altogether. How can the Holy Spirit make intercessions for us without uttering any sound at all? This is entirely different from the NIV's implication of sounds being uttered but no words can express.

We read on in the King James Bible and find what appears to be an error. The Holy Spirit addressed as an "itself" while making intercessions for us? And yet He is not since no sound is being uttered. Then we read about how the Mediator.. that's Jesus.. Who searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit for He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God as in being the only Mediator between God and man. The fact that the scriptures mention this in Romans 8:34 both in NIV and KJV, shows that the NIV got the translations wrong.

In other words, the Holy Spirit, by fulfilling the role of the Comforter by dwelling in us and abiding in us forever so that Jesus, the Mediator can search our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit can fulfill His role. This is actually the correct meaning of "itself" as the Holy Spirit is the means as far as the "it" is concern, but still regarded as a Person as in "self" is concern. So the Holy Spirit makes intercession without sounds by being in us whereas Christ Whom knows the mind of the Spirit as well as searching our hearts.. He intercedes for us in according to the will of God fro being the only Mediator between God and man... specifying the man Christ Jesus and not the Spirit of Christ.

That is why this scripture can be true for all believers.

Matthew 6: 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Before you even ask, the Father knows. So what point does it serve God for the "Holy Spirit" to manifest prayer language that is already found in the world? None. How can those He calls out of the occult be witnesses that they are no longer in it if prayer language is also found in christianity? And yet God would calls us to stand apart from the world?

So here we are misusing what Paul was trying to say about tongues by itself as a gift to seek over his exhorting for believers into seeking the gift of prophesy in comparison to tongues by itself as if tongues can be used by itself when plainly he goes on to emphasize how it should not be... for it is unfruitful.. even to himself as there is a need for understanding... and thus a necessity for the speaker to pray that somebody should interpret.

Below is Paul addressing all manifestations of the Spirit as given to profit the body withal.. as in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

No prayer language.

11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. [b]13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, [/b]whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. [/b]

These scriptures are given for instructions as well as for discernment.

The Holy Spirit would not manifest tongues privately for a prayer language since all manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body withal. Tongues as defined is to be followed by the interpretation of those tongues.

It is because of errant translations that believers are misled into not discerning the tongues they had received for the Holy Spirit cannot fulfill the description of a thief as Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, thus the necessity for tongues to be used as a prayer language is not of the Lord. Period.

2 Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker:

As tongues that come without interpretation is a stranger's voice and prayer language is already found in the world:

1 John 4: 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

That is why all believers are not to believe every spirit, but test them.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

And since tongues are coming by another spirit falling on believers when they already have the Holy Spirit in them as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus, they speak by the spirit of error of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues without testing that supernatural experience as not of the Lord by the scriptures. They bring these spirits and their tongues with them wherever they go.

Only recently, churches are becoming aware and catching new agers bringing their practises into the churches, but the scriptures warned that these spirits don't need any help coming into the assembly, therefore we are to test the spirits and not be paranoid about who in the assembly is bringing them there.

Some believers are just picking up things to apply and are not discerning them either. ( a pastor wanted to paint a room blue in the back.. seperate from the main assembly area to help those meditate.. to shut out all sound and thoughts.. to cause the Spirit to come for those unable to experience anything. He is no longer a pastor. )

So this is why I am asking you to take this matter to the Lord in prayer for wisdom and discernment. Do not allow pride that has snared some believers into holding unto onto tongues without seeing how by the scriptures, there is no need for tongues as a prayer language and certainly isn't listed as a manifestation of the Spirit for tongues to serve as a stand alone gift which Paul was trying to convey of tongues by itself so believers would seek prophesy over ALL spiritual gifts. So the tongues being manifested privately tells me that something is off.... way off. What spirit is coming inbetween you and Jesus for prayer?

May God cause the increase and set you free from what is clearly to me is a snare of the devil.
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#56
So let's just erase the book of Acts... wait... doesn't the bible talk about how adding to or taking away from scripture being an.. dare I use the word?
The word says when you pray in tongues you are praying to God not man.
It's just like the devil to try and cause you to question if God really said!
It happen with Eve, it happen to Jesus after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan!

Do not be moved by a person with lots of head knowledge of the Word of God!
The devil knows the word and has not changed!

Put the devil under your feet!

Stand on the Word, it's a living word!

It brings life not death, nor is God the author of fear or confusion.

God would not say it was His unless it was!

So pray in tongues, Paul did it more than all!

So be like Paul, I think that is a safe bet for a good example to follow!

It is the Word of God!

The devil is still a lair, and still hold true to form,
He twist the Word of God mixed with a little bit of the truth!


 
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
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#57
There are none.

Matthew 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

If anyone care to note, the manifestations of tongues are plural and to come with interpretation of those tongues. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift.

1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

There is no listing of a singular tongue necessary for praying to God. Divers kinds of tongues are the tongues that are to be interpreted.

For the believers in assembly, they were to seek spiritual gifts, but the gift of prophesy was beinge exalted over tongues as tongues was being played down in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14th.

Note how Paul leads into that second verse of the unknown tongue: From the first verse, we see Paul exalting the gift of prophesy and downplaying the gift of tongues. If anyone thinks that this justfies prayer language, then you are not reading this same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted in verse 13. Paul is not talking about two kinds of unknown tongues at any time. It is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted for the edifying of the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Paul was careful to not give the idea to do away with tongues, but he certainly played down the importance of tongues which is what we are not seeing today. Tongues are everywhere.. and hardly any reason for it when all can speak English or the same language in that assembly. If edification is the main purpose for these manifestations, then tongues without interpretation is like burying the talent or the gift God has given and thus cannot serve as a prayer language for even Paul did not know what he was saying so it profitteth him not for he understood it not the thanks he was giving to God. He would rather understood one or two words than speak a thousand words that edify not.

1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So once again, unknown tongue is mentioned. One cannot single out verse 2 to imply that there is a prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


The manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus so that our love may grow more and more for the assembly of believers, but when believers seek after a sign, they are courting the description of committing spiritual adultery.. and climbing up another way.. chasing after the Holy Ghost when He is in us... is committing adultery when we are the Bride to Jesus Christ: the Bridegroom. I bear witness that there are tongues in the world that are gibberish.. comes with no interpretation, so the idea of prayer language is a dangerous one. It is far better to know what you had prayed for so you can give thanks for answered prayers. There is much vainglorying in prayer language because people will mimick to fit in. AND, Paul clearly spoke against setting any time for this "prayer language" because he wrote of someone coming in to the assembly and thinking them all mad if they all spoke in tongues in this next verse.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Now note the purpose of this witness of the gift of prophesying:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

No one is going to say that if "believers" are calling for the Holy Spirit to come as if He is not already in them.

So this preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of speaking in tongues is not Biblical as it is standing apart from the truth.

2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

That one hope of our calling is towards Jesus Christ so there cannot be "another calling" to get another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

The fact that you do not need tongues to pray to God shows the comfort of having the Comforter in us in that the Father already knows before we even ask.

Many have been misled by other Bible translations to think the Holy Spirit needs to utter groans or make sounds for Him to intercede as this errant version below misleads:

Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Verse 26 implies sounds being made as in how the Holy Spirit can intercede, but in verse 27, we see bad grammar being applied here in translations. How can the "he" which is a Third Person apart from us in searching our hearts and apart from the Spirit to knowing the mind of the Spirit... be the Spirit Himself that makes intercessions for us? Thus the Spirit cannot be the "he" in verse 27 as KJV correctly applies below.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now note verse 26. The Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered... hence.. no sound at all. Then we note what appears to be a mistake in the KJV as they applied "itself" in referring the Holy Spirit BUT... if we look at the verse as a whole... it is written that the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession with groanings not uttered, thus leading the believer in asking how then can the Holy Spirit intercede?

This leading to verse 27 of the Third person of the he in searcheth our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit in us... and that he is Jesus Christ, the only Mediator between God and man...which conludes as to the reference in according to the will of God.... thus explaining the "itself" application towards the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is the "means" by which Jesus is Our Mediator... as "it" is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means as "self" refers to the Person of the Trinity. Thus the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us indirectly.. as in a passive sense since it is by Jesus by Whom intercession is made by knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows already before we ask in prayer.

If any doubt lingers, consider that the Word of God is Jesus as He is the Word made flesh.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So we are to come to Jesus in prayer for by Him we can pray to the Father as well, but there are no necessity nor are there any extras after coming to Jesus to have that relationship with Him for it is by coming to Jesus, we have that relationship with God. To look to any other means to relate to God, is to move away from our rest in Him. We relate to God through the Son. To know Jesus is to know God... and we do so by the word as all invitations points to Him.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No exception... no "instead of Christ".. for that is the definition of the "anti-christ"... and we know the Holy Spirit will never fit that description so heed the leading of the Holy Spirit by going to Jesus and remain resting in Him for Jesus Christ is Whom the Gospel is all about... the Good News to man.

May God cause the increase.
The bible says to speak in tongues. There is speaking in tongues which is between you and God. There is speaking in tongues which is God wanting a message out to tell others. One can speak in tongues and God will give someone eles the message for them to speak out. Or one can speak in tongues and God can tell the one who is having the tongues speak the message out. Like all the gifts you can pray for God to help you get all the gifts. To speak in togues feels kinda silly. You don't know what your saying. It's a matter of letting go of your pride and letting God flow thr you. God bless you
 
May 21, 2009
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#58
The word says when you pray in tongues you are praying to God not man.
It's just like the devil to try and cause you to question if God really said!
It happen with Eve, it happen to Jesus after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan!

Do not be moved by a person with lots of head knowledge of the Word of God!
The devil knows the word and has not changed!

Put the devil under your feet!

Stand on the Word, it's a living word!

It brings life not death, nor is God the author of fear or confusion.

God would not say it was His unless it was!

So pray in tongues, Paul did it more than all!

So be like Paul, I think that is a safe bet for a good example to follow!

It is the Word of God!

The devil is still a lair, and still hold true to form,
He twist the Word of God mixed with a little bit of the truth!
Aman God bless
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#59
I concurr aswell kingdom,We are in a sort of a holy war
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take to you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breast-plate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, with which ye will be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching for this purpose with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; WAIT!!!!!! Did Paul Dare say PRAY IN THE SPIRIT?
Yes. Paul did say pray IN the Spirit... not OUT of the Spirit...as in calling for the Spirit of God to come and neither TO the Spirit either.


Now I know Nothing of the speaking in tongues,other than it happened to me once,scared the poo outa me,But I knew what I was saying,But that aint what was coming out of my mouth! And I've never done it again,And That time I didnt ask for it,So I wasn't SEEKING another spirit! I wasnt seeking anything but fellowship with My Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST,[/quote]

Believers were told not to believe every spirit but test them. You do not have to seek it for something like that to happen, but if you listen, to those that it did happen to them, they usually wind up changing the testimony as to when they were saved like my neighbor across the street or/and preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

Can you ponder how my neighbor across the street testify of the "Spirit" coming over her while she was reading her Bible in the privacey of her kitchen when she suddenly began speaking in tongues? She recounted the event to me and declared that was when she was saved for she got it all at once. When I had asked her what she was reading that made her believe in Jesus, she did not know what I meant and then she went on about going to her pastor to inquire and all he did was point to Acts to declare what had happened to her since she was a believer all along. So the end result of that encounter was she had changed her testimony as to when and how she was saved, thus to those that hear.. it is the same thing as saying.. faith in Jesus Christ is not enough.

This same neighbor testified that others had the same experience but doing everyday stuff by which she rolled her eyes at and did not care to convey further what they were doing that she rolled her eyes at.

What is even more alarming is that Joyce Meyers had the same experience of the "spirit" coming over her as she began to speak in tongues and she took that to mean that she had received an anointing to go into the ministry, but the anointing is not seperate from salvation.

1 John 2:26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

So how come believers receiving these seperate supernatural experiences are calling these same experiences to mean something else which is not according to the truth of the Gospel of grace?

And why is it that this extra experience is being repeated on the same believer again and again?

1 Corinthians 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And in that prayer He Told me He'd teach me what I needed to be saved,So I don't recon I need you to.Nor did anyone here ask you for anything but Fellowship,


Okay then. Discern that message. Were you a believer before this message came? Yes. Were you not saved before this message came? Yes. Then why would "he" say that he will teach you what you needed to be saved?

This is why believers are to test the spirits for the Spirit of Truth will not lie.

New agers have been known to contact spirit guides and only recently have the churches been catching new agers coming into the churches, but how long have they been there? What if teh rudiments they brought was adapted by believers? What if the spirits they brought got accepted by others without testing them? And yet believers were told to not believe every spirit anyway for there are many anti-christ in the world so a medium, wizard, or a spiritualist does not have to bring them.

1 John 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 4: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

So tongues without interpretation is how the world speaks and hears just as the spirit of error will lead a believer to speak not the truth of the Gospel.


Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing you in any of the chatrooms as of late,Do you come here to chat or bash/Teach other denominations of their faulty doctrine?I really wish those who like to come to the forums inorder to share their learning would take the time to get to know some of those whom they would potentualy hurt while they are doing this kind of teaching/warning r whatever they want to call it today.
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!!!!


I would call that as covering your back, but of course, only God can cause the increase and recover those from the snare of the devil.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#60
The bible says to speak in tongues. There is speaking in tongues which is between you and God. There is speaking in tongues which is God wanting a message out to tell others. One can speak in tongues and God will give someone eles the message for them to speak out. Or one can speak in tongues and God can tell the one who is having the tongues speak the message out. Like all the gifts you can pray for God to help you get all the gifts. To speak in togues feels kinda silly. You don't know what your saying. It's a matter of letting go of your pride and letting God flow thr you. God bless you
Nay, sister. Pride has nothing to do with it. Keeping the faith as standing apart from the world is what this is all about. May God cause the increase and peradventure give knowledge unto repentance.
 
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