The Necessity of Tongues For Prayer Language

[Baruch]

There are none.

Matthew 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

If anyone care to note, the manifestations of tongues are plural and to come with interpretation of those tongues. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift.

1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

There is no listing of a singular tongue necessary for praying to God. Divers kinds of tongues are the tongues that are to be interpreted.

For the believers in assembly, they were to seek spiritual gifts, but the gift of prophesy was beinge exalted over tongues as tongues was being played down in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14th.

Note how Paul leads into that second verse of the unknown tongue: From the first verse, we see Paul exalting the gift of prophesy and downplaying the gift of tongues. If anyone thinks that this justfies prayer language, then you are not reading this same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted in verse 13. Paul is not talking about two kinds of unknown tongues at any time. It is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted for the edifying of the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Paul was careful to not give the idea to do away with tongues, but he certainly played down the importance of tongues which is what we are not seeing today. Tongues are everywhere.. and hardly any reason for it when all can speak English or the same language in that assembly. If edification is the main purpose for these manifestations, then tongues without interpretation is like burying the talent or the gift God has given and thus cannot serve as a prayer language for even Paul did not know what he was saying so it profitteth him not for he understood it not the thanks he was giving to God. He would rather understood one or two words than speak a thousand words that edify not.

1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So once again, unknown tongue is mentioned. One cannot single out verse 2 to imply that there is a prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


The manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus so that our love may grow more and more for the assembly of believers, but when believers seek after a sign, they are courting the description of committing spiritual adultery.. and climbing up another way.. chasing after the Holy Ghost when He is in us... is committing adultery when we are the Bride to Jesus Christ: the Bridegroom. I bear witness that there are tongues in the world that are gibberish.. comes with no interpretation, so the idea of prayer language is a dangerous one. It is far better to know what you had prayed for so you can give thanks for answered prayers. There is much vainglorying in prayer language because people will mimick to fit in. AND, Paul clearly spoke against setting any time for this "prayer language" because he wrote of someone coming in to the assembly and thinking them all mad if they all spoke in tongues in this next verse.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Now note the purpose of this witness of the gift of prophesying:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

No one is going to say that if "believers" are calling for the Holy Spirit to come as if He is not already in them.

So this preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of speaking in tongues is not Biblical as it is standing apart from the truth.

2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

That one hope of our calling is towards Jesus Christ so there cannot be "another calling" to get another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

The fact that you do not need tongues to pray to God shows the comfort of having the Comforter in us in that the Father already knows before we even ask.

Many have been misled by other Bible translations to think the Holy Spirit needs to utter groans or make sounds for Him to intercede as this errant version below misleads:

Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Verse 26 implies sounds being made as in how the Holy Spirit can intercede, but in verse 27, we see bad grammar being applied here in translations. How can the "he" which is a Third Person apart from us in searching our hearts and apart from the Spirit to knowing the mind of the Spirit... be the Spirit Himself that makes intercessions for us? Thus the Spirit cannot be the "he" in verse 27 as KJV correctly applies below.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now note verse 26. The Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered... hence.. no sound at all. Then we note what appears to be a mistake in the KJV as they applied "itself" in referring the Holy Spirit BUT... if we look at the verse as a whole... it is written that the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession with groanings not uttered, thus leading the believer in asking how then can the Holy Spirit intercede?

This leading to verse 27 of the Third person of the he in searcheth our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit in us... and that he is Jesus Christ, the only Mediator between God and man...which conludes as to the reference in according to the will of God.... thus explaining the "itself" application towards the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is the "means" by which Jesus is Our Mediator... as "it" is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means as "self" refers to the Person of the Trinity. Thus the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us indirectly.. as in a passive sense since it is by Jesus by Whom intercession is made by knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows already before we ask in prayer.

If any doubt lingers, consider that the Word of God is Jesus as He is the Word made flesh.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So we are to come to Jesus in prayer for by Him we can pray to the Father as well, but there are no necessity nor are there any extras after coming to Jesus to have that relationship with Him for it is by coming to Jesus, we have that relationship with God. To look to any other means to relate to God, is to move away from our rest in Him. We relate to God through the Son. To know Jesus is to know God... and we do so by the word as all invitations points to Him.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No exception... no "instead of Christ".. for that is the definition of the "anti-christ"... and we know the Holy Spirit will never fit that description so heed the leading of the Holy Spirit by going to Jesus and remain resting in Him for Jesus Christ is Whom the Gospel is all about... the Good News to man.

May God cause the increase.

 

[Thaddaeus]

There are none.

Matthew 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

If anyone care to note, the manifestations of tongues are plural and to come with interpretation of those tongues. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift.

1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

There is no listing of a singular tongue necessary for praying to God. Divers kinds of tongues are the tongues that are to be interpreted.

For the believers in assembly, they were to seek spiritual gifts, but the gift of prophesy was beinge exalted over tongues as tongues was being played down in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14th.

Note how Paul leads into that second verse of the unknown tongue: From the first verse, we see Paul exalting the gift of prophesy and downplaying the gift of tongues. If anyone thinks that this justfies prayer language, then you are not reading this same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted in verse 13. Paul is not talking about two kinds of unknown tongues at any time. It is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted for the edifying of the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Paul was careful to not give the idea to do away with tongues, but he certainly played down the importance of tongues which is what we are not seeing today. Tongues are everywhere.. and hardly any reason for it when all can speak English or the same language in that assembly. If edification is the main purpose for these manifestations, then tongues without interpretation is like burying the talent or the gift God has given and thus cannot serve as a prayer language for even Paul did not know what he was saying so it profitteth him not for he understood it not the thanks he was giving to God. He would rather understood one or two words than speak a thousand words that edify not.

1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So once again, unknown tongue is mentioned. One cannot single out verse 2 to imply that there is a prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


The manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus so that our love may grow more and more for the assembly of believers, but when believers seek after a sign, they are courting the description of committing spiritual adultery.. and climbing up another way.. chasing after the Holy Ghost when He is in us... is committing adultery when we are the Bride to Jesus Christ: the Bridegroom. I bear witness that there are tongues in the world that are gibberish.. comes with no interpretation, so the idea of prayer language is a dangerous one. It is far better to know what you had prayed for so you can give thanks for answered prayers. There is much vainglorying in prayer language because people will mimick to fit in. AND, Paul clearly spoke against setting any time for this "prayer language" because he wrote of someone coming in to the assembly and thinking them all mad if they all spoke in tongues in this next verse.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Now note the purpose of this witness of the gift of prophesying:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

No one is going to say that if "believers" are calling for the Holy Spirit to come as if He is not already in them.

So this preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of speaking in tongues is not Biblical as it is standing apart from the truth.

2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

That one hope of our calling is towards Jesus Christ so there cannot be "another calling" to get another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

The fact that you do not need tongues to pray to God shows the comfort of having the Comforter in us in that the Father already knows before we even ask.

Many have been misled by other Bible translations to think the Holy Spirit needs to utter groans or make sounds for Him to intercede as this errant version below misleads:

Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Verse 26 implies sounds being made as in how the Holy Spirit can intercede, but in verse 27, we see bad grammar being applied here in translations. How can the "he" which is a Third Person apart from us in searching our hearts and apart from the Spirit to knowing the mind of the Spirit... be the Spirit Himself that makes intercessions for us? Thus the Spirit cannot be the "he" in verse 27 as KJV correctly applies below.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now note verse 26. The Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered... hence.. no sound at all. Then we note what appears to be a mistake in the KJV as they applied "itself" in referring the Holy Spirit BUT... if we look at the verse as a whole... it is written that the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession with groanings not uttered, thus leading the believer in asking how then can the Holy Spirit intercede?

This leading to verse 27 of the Third person of the he in searcheth our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit in us... and that he is Jesus Christ, the only Mediator between God and man...which conludes as to the reference in according to the will of God.... thus explaining the "itself" application towards the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is the "means" by which Jesus is Our Mediator... as "it" is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means as "self" refers to the Person of the Trinity. Thus the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us indirectly.. as in a passive sense since it is by Jesus by Whom intercession is made by knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows already before we ask in prayer.

If any doubt lingers, consider that the Word of God is Jesus as He is the Word made flesh.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So we are to come to Jesus in prayer for by Him we can pray to the Father as well, but there are no necessity nor are there any extras after coming to Jesus to have that relationship with Him for it is by coming to Jesus, we have that relationship with God. To look to any other means to relate to God, is to move away from our rest in Him. We relate to God through the Son. To know Jesus is to know God... and we do so by the word as all invitations points to Him.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No exception... no "instead of Christ".. for that is the definition of the "anti-christ"... and we know the Holy Spirit will never fit that description so heed the leading of the Holy Spirit by going to Jesus and remain resting in Him for Jesus Christ is Whom the Gospel is all about... the Good News to man.

May God cause the increase.

And it took alot of tongue to get all this out Hehehehehe

 

[Baptistrw]

There are none.

Matthew 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

If anyone care to note, the manifestations of tongues are plural and to come with interpretation of those tongues. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift.

1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

There is no listing of a singular tongue necessary for praying to God. Divers kinds of tongues are the tongues that are to be interpreted.

For the believers in assembly, they were to seek spiritual gifts, but the gift of prophesy was beinge exalted over tongues as tongues was being played down in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14th.

Note how Paul leads into that second verse of the unknown tongue: From the first verse, we see Paul exalting the gift of prophesy and downplaying the gift of tongues. If anyone thinks that this justfies prayer language, then you are not reading this same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted in verse 13. Paul is not talking about two kinds of unknown tongues at any time. It is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted for the edifying of the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Paul was careful to not give the idea to do away with tongues, but he certainly played down the importance of tongues which is what we are not seeing today. Tongues are everywhere.. and hardly any reason for it when all can speak English or the same language in that assembly. If edification is the main purpose for these manifestations, then tongues without interpretation is like burying the talent or the gift God has given and thus cannot serve as a prayer language for even Paul did not know what he was saying so it profitteth him not for he understood it not the thanks he was giving to God. He would rather understood one or two words than speak a thousand words that edify not.

1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So once again, unknown tongue is mentioned. One cannot single out verse 2 to imply that there is a prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


The manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus so that our love may grow more and more for the assembly of believers, but when believers seek after a sign, they are courting the description of committing spiritual adultery.. and climbing up another way.. chasing after the Holy Ghost when He is in us... is committing adultery when we are the Bride to Jesus Christ: the Bridegroom. I bear witness that there are tongues in the world that are gibberish.. comes with no interpretation, so the idea of prayer language is a dangerous one. It is far better to know what you had prayed for so you can give thanks for answered prayers. There is much vainglorying in prayer language because people will mimick to fit in. AND, Paul clearly spoke against setting any time for this "prayer language" because he wrote of someone coming in to the assembly and thinking them all mad if they all spoke in tongues in this next verse.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Now note the purpose of this witness of the gift of prophesying:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

No one is going to say that if "believers" are calling for the Holy Spirit to come as if He is not already in them.

So this preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of speaking in tongues is not Biblical as it is standing apart from the truth.

2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

That one hope of our calling is towards Jesus Christ so there cannot be "another calling" to get another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

The fact that you do not need tongues to pray to God shows the comfort of having the Comforter in us in that the Father already knows before we even ask.

Many have been misled by other Bible translations to think the Holy Spirit needs to utter groans or make sounds for Him to intercede as this errant version below misleads:

Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Verse 26 implies sounds being made as in how the Holy Spirit can intercede, but in verse 27, we see bad grammar being applied here in translations. How can the "he" which is a Third Person apart from us in searching our hearts and apart from the Spirit to knowing the mind of the Spirit... be the Spirit Himself that makes intercessions for us? Thus the Spirit cannot be the "he" in verse 27 as KJV correctly applies below.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now note verse 26. The Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered... hence.. no sound at all. Then we note what appears to be a mistake in the KJV as they applied "itself" in referring the Holy Spirit BUT... if we look at the verse as a whole... it is written that the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession with groanings not uttered, thus leading the believer in asking how then can the Holy Spirit intercede?

This leading to verse 27 of the Third person of the he in searcheth our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit in us... and that he is Jesus Christ, the only Mediator between God and man...which conludes as to the reference in according to the will of God.... thus explaining the "itself" application towards the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is the "means" by which Jesus is Our Mediator... as "it" is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means as "self" refers to the Person of the Trinity. Thus the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us indirectly.. as in a passive sense since it is by Jesus by Whom intercession is made by knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows already before we ask in prayer.

If any doubt lingers, consider that the Word of God is Jesus as He is the Word made flesh.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So we are to come to Jesus in prayer for by Him we can pray to the Father as well, but there are no necessity nor are there any extras after coming to Jesus to have that relationship with Him for it is by coming to Jesus, we have that relationship with God. To look to any other means to relate to God, is to move away from our rest in Him. We relate to God through the Son. To know Jesus is to know God... and we do so by the word as all invitations points to Him.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No exception... no "instead of Christ".. for that is the definition of the "anti-christ"... and we know the Holy Spirit will never fit that description so heed the leading of the Holy Spirit by going to Jesus and remain resting in Him for Jesus Christ is Whom the Gospel is all about... the Good News to man.

May God cause the increase.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NoahsDad]

WHATS THE DEAL WITH YOU GUYS? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG STINKIN FIGHT STIRRED UP?

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS POSTED EVERY FLAW THEY SAW WITH THE BAPTIST CHURCH?

 

[Baptistrw]

WHATS THE DEAL WITH YOU GUYS? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG STINKIN FIGHT STIRRED UP?

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS POSTED EVERY FLAW THEY SAW WITH THE BAPTIST CHURCH?

Wouldn't bother me too much.

 

[carpetmanswife]

Wouldn't bother me too much.

i know coz apparently baptists arent condemned about nothing coz they covered by grace BUT us pentecostals we hell bound coz of what we believe...its old and hurtful.....im askin yall to plz stop

 

[NoahsMom]

AMEN cmw....I cant rightly say that I have ever been led to make someone feel belittled or hurt because of their denomination.

 

[bananaboo4]

Lol, this is cracking me up.... ok. IM pentecostal. and I could certainly nickpick around some Baptist flaws. ok? but i aint gunna do that, cause it'd be wrong.

 

[MahogonySnail]

There have been past threads on tongues.

But to summarise in response to some things in the original that I thought weren't accurate..

Paul did not play down the use of tongues. He in fact encouraged it. He said quite clearly in corinthians, forbid not speaking in tongues. He was not against its use , but against it's misuse. There is a difference.

In fact if there is interpretation, then we should use tongues all the more, the more prophecy done, the more edifying!!

People against tongues often say how it shouldn't be used publically but only privately.
But was the first recorded use of tongues in Acts at Pentecost public or private!! public!

When new converts were made and they suddenly started speaking in tongues after receiving the Spirit, was it private or public? Public!

Tongues is for a sign.. and a sign cannot be a sign, unless it is seen.

Tongues is therefore as much for public use as for private.

The book of Acts, not to mention pentecost itself shows a subsequent experience or infilling of the Spirit, often accompanied by praising glorifying God, prophesy , and tongues. This is also the experience of many believers today. Unfortunately this was stifled by religious organisation of the time ,
because the Spirit-filled believer is a big threat to the denominations of man!

 

[Baptistrw]

Lol, this is cracking me up.... ok. IM pentecostal. and I could certainly nickpick around some Baptist flaws. ok? but i aint gunna do that, cause it'd be wrong.

Good luck finding faults.

 

[Baruch]

WHATS THE DEAL WITH YOU GUYS? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG STINKIN FIGHT STIRRED UP?

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS POSTED EVERY FLAW THEY SAW WITH THE BAPTIST CHURCH?

Umm... former Presbyterian here. By His grace, I am just being identified by my faith in Jesus Christ now.. not a church.

Galatians 4:16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

If anyone thinks defending their church is the good fight, think again. God addressed seven churches in Revelations.. as only two needed reaffirmation to hold to the faith. I maintain this front that the good fight is keeping the faith.... our personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The danger of these last days is following the crowd, of becoming complacent to follow routine and frown upon those that change the status quo or rain on their parade... and ignoring things that bugs us in the back of our mind of things we have seen, have heard, and had experienced, but were afraid to voice them. Most would shrug them off as something they do not understand , but it "doesn't matter" and so continue on with what they believe is the path God would have them walk.

At no time in my thread did I mention Pentecostal nor Charismatics. I approached false teachings and corrected it by the scripture just as anybody in your church would, right? By His grace, my OP was to share the reason why there is no need for prayer language, and why tongues are not a necessity for that use. Good News, yes? And yet, also show a grave danger of falling away from the faith when we seek another spirit to receive... which is a rudiment found in the world and not after Christ Jesus.

As iron sharpens iron... then feel free to correct in love of any errant teaching in the Baptist church or any practise that believers may be involved in... or even I may be involved in, but as it is, I believe your problem is with the Lord because of the OP, not me.

Consider this, brother.. and I do call you my brother... take it to Jesus in prayer. I do not know how others judge Pentecostals nor Charismatics here, but...

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;..... 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So even if I believe a certain practise is disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, you are still my brother, but the Lord is admonishing you from the OP, otherwise, you would have responded in love to correct me from the scriptures to edify me in the knowledge of Him, but you didn't, because you can't top that edification in the OP for it is good to know that the Father knows what we need before we ask for it.

You need to ask yourself as to why you are so offended. Is it because the first two that heard me and agreed with me, have offended you in the past? You need to look at the OP seperately without judging me with guilt by association. I am fairly new here and just recently accepted baptistrw's request as a friend today so....

If the Lord is pruning you, and reproving you of words and practises contrary to the faith in Jesus Christ, then you need to heed Him if you wish to be found abiding in Him in keeping the faith.

I take it by your disapproval that you practise prayer language? If so... take it to Jesus in prayer. Your negative response demands it... and by His grace, may you be ready to hear the answer.

May God cause the increase.

 

[MahogonySnail]

We've had past discussions on tongues and gifts etc that perhaps weren't so cordial Baruch.

I personally use tongues as a prayer language only if I have interpretation as well. Otherwise I don't usually know what I'm saying. But it's not something that really bothers me. Sometimes you start to pray in english but then tongues just flows out.

I don't buy any of the theories you hear about tongues being necessary so that the devil can't understand what you are saying lol.

One verse that comes to mind to support use of tongues as prayer language is when Paul said something like the person with tongues but no interpretation needs to keep quiet praying to God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Probably the biggest problem I have with critics of tongues is that the majority criticise something they have never experienced before. So I suggest to any non-tongue speakers, seek God about it and receive the gift yourselves if it is His will, and then try to tell tongue speakers what they are doing wrong. Unless of course those tongue speakers are going against scriptures about order and disorder in the church.

And then you get a lot more insight about the idea of tongues as a prayer language and what it means. The definition of the doctrine as described by pentecostal denominations is only a poor attempt at trying to describe the experience that so many have. There are a lot of unfounded beliefs (like the one that the devil cant understand your tongues etc), but that doesn't negate the reality of the experience.

 

[Baruch]

i know coz apparently baptists arent condemned about nothing coz they covered by grace BUT us pentecostals we hell bound coz of what we believe...its old and hurtful.....im askin yall to plz stop

Hellbound? I think I know where that came from, but that is a misconception.

1 Peter 4:17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

If you consider the rapture as judgment falling on the House of God, then one can read the next verses as to what punishment awaits.

2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Yep. That sounds like hell, but it isn't. Being left behind at the rapture event is a ****ation in and of itself. Like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living, he is still son, although all that he had was lost or as the foolish virgins that had to go to the market to fill the oil in their vessels so as to trim their lamps to meet the Bridegroom that was coming: these are they that believe in the continual filling of the Spirit as opposed to those that believe that they are filled as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. Note how they refer to that belief of the truth below in opposition to the contrariness above.


13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So what is the ****ation other than being left behind at the rapture event?

2 Timothy 2: 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

If one considers that a stranger's voice would be applicable to prayer language as tongues with no interpretation:

John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers....

And is not the voice of stranger achieved by climbing up another way by chasing after the "Holy Spirit" as in another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues? Look what happens to those left behind for following the stranger's voice.

John 10:14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This goes to Jesus promise even for the wayward:

John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Philippians 1: 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Being left behind at the rapture event is the biggest admonishment of all. So even unreasonable and wicked men that do not have faith by not following after the tradition taught of us and being disorderly are still called brothers... but are in danger of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All of this could have been avoided if believers took time out, pause, and ask the Lord Jesus if they are doing or saying anything contrary to their faith in Him. God calls the seven churches in Revelations for a spot check in their walk with Him: this is no different.

The Lord Jesus shall use the scriptures to reprove the works therein.

Colossians 3:16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

So setting aside prayer language, ask Jesus in prayer in your own tongue for guidance on this matter and by His grace, may you receive an answer.... because...
Hebrews 10:30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Baruch]

Probably the biggest problem I have with critics of tongues is that the majority criticise something they have never experienced before. So I suggest to any non-tongue speakers, seek God about it and receive the gift yourselves if it is His will, and then try to tell tongue speakers what they are doing wrong. Unless of course those tongue speakers are going against scriptures about order and disorder in the church.

And then you get a lot more insight about the idea of tongues as a prayer language and what it means. The definition of the doctrine as described by pentecostal denominations is only a poor attempt at trying to describe the experience that so many have. There are a lot of unfounded beliefs (like the one that the devil cant understand your tongues etc), but that doesn't negate the reality of the experience.

I wouldn't have much of a problem with today's tongues if they had sought them from the Lord Jesus Christ but the hype today is to seek another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues and that is in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This other invitation has believers going directly to the "Spirit" as in receiving another spirit other than the One they had already received. How can this other be the Holy Spirit? Just because tongues come with this other baptism?

2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


If prophecy is the spiritual gift that Paul was exhorting over all gifts, the why is tongues being done that way today as if it is to be sought after?

AND.. why is it when some spirit comes over someone that they do not test them when they start speaking in tongues that comes with no interpretation? It is written to not believe every spirit so what spirit is coming over a believer if the Holy Spirit is already in them?

Consider this... the rudiment of the world is to seek after other spirits... some prophesy... some speak in tongues which is gibberish as in comes with no interpretation. If God wants us to stand apart from the world, why give tongues with no interpretation? What keeps a born again former voodooist to continue in his gibberish tongues in a Pentecostal or Charismatic or any church for that matter? Would people doubt if he had really repented? Would voodooists see this a means to unite with christians in this prayer language? How would God have us stand apart from them and from the world?

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

If we are warned by Jesus not to bury a talent, then how can tongues without interpretation not be seen as buried in making God a hypocrit in His administrations?


If a medium or a new ager or an American Indian renewing their ties with the Great Spirit was to come into the assembly, do all just go with every spirit that comes and goes into the worship place? Can anyone really believe that other spirits do not need any help to fall on anyone to steal their affection away from Jesus... to cause confusion.. to change the parameters of the Gospel... to become the center of worship in the service...to get lost in the signs and wonders.. even for a moment?

Are the Biblical tongues being practised today? I have cause for alarm in seeing there is a need for everyone to stop, give pause, and discern by going to Jesus in prayer for guidance by the scriptures if they are abiding in Him or not.

I cannot change anyone's mind when it comes to the supernatural.... but by His grace, I can only appeal that all those that speak in tongues to take it to Jesus in prayer in their native tongue because alot of words being said in regards to tongues are in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ... big time.

Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Lord confronted me with this before I was exposed to the supernatural phenomenon of the "holy laughter" movement. He asked me to decide this day Whom I will serve, the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name. I answered Him "You" of course, but the urgency of the decision was still impressed upon me as I moved to pray..."Please help me to do this" and peace came and ... later when I was confronted with the supernatural.. He did help me to not fall for this movement to serve it.

So I ask everyone out there to trust in their Good Shepherd to help them not serve anything else in His name, but the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[kujo313]

Tongues or not... JUST PRAY!!

 

[MahogonySnail]

I wouldn't have much of a problem with today's tongues if they had sought them from the Lord Jesus Christ but the hype today is to seek another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues and that is in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This other invitation has believers going directly to the "Spirit" as in receiving another spirit other than the One they had already received. How can this other be the Holy Spirit? Just because tongues come with this other baptism?

The scriptures say no one except by the Spirit can say "Jesus is Lord" so I think the person's confession of faith and life shows whether they have the Spirit or not. Generally after a subsequent experience of the Spirit as you describe, a person is filled with greater joy, love, peace, life and zeal for Jesus for starters. That would not be possible if this was "another spirit" as you suggest. Although I believe it's possible that if they seek just a Spirit they could be led astray , instead of seeking Jesus.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Generally after a subsequent experience of the Spirit as you describe, a person is filled with greater joy, love, peace, life and zeal for Jesus for starters.

That also leads to greater emotions which may be interpreted as hype when it is simply true emotion coming from what that person is experiencing from the Spirit.

Frankly I'd rather be in a church with this emotion than a church which says "praise the Lord" with no emotion or feeling what so ever. It is dull, dry, emotionless, boring and seems somehow fake. Even though excess emotion can appear fake too sometimes.

 

[Baruch]

AMEN cmw....I cant rightly say that I have ever been led to make someone feel belittled or hurt because of their denomination.

Nothing gives you pause for using tongues as a prayer language?

Then what about this commandment from the Lord for women to be silent in the church?

Why would the Lord make such a commandment if He is manifesting the gift of tongues to women?

Why is the reason He would not manifest tongues to women is because of Adam being created first and then Eve as meaning the Word of God would first come to the men in the assembly?

1 Corinthians 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order.

And yet when tongues are being used, it is not being done decently and in order even with the men for they are using it as...

#1. ... prayer language as time is being set aside for it:

1 Corinthians 14: 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

#2. .... are not even following this guideline:

1 Corinthians 14:26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

And yet there is confusion... and of such... God is not the author thereof.

The point is do we allow the supernatural to have dominion over us since the spirits are subject to the prophets or... do we see the need to go to Jesus in prayer in their own native tongue?

Proverbs 25:28He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

And yet Jesus warned about the thief that would do that:

Matthew 24:43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Luke 12:39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

All of this tongue used for prayer language is obtained by how? Seeking another spirit to receive... as in another baptism of the Holy Ghost that comes with evidence of tongues.

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Why is it that is not enough to give you pause as the world can get tongues without interpretation by seeking another spirit to receive? Can it be possible for believers to love the supernatural more than keeping the faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[Baruch]

The scriptures say no one except by the Spirit can say "Jesus is Lord" so I think the person's confession of faith and life shows whether they have the Spirit or not. Generally after a subsequent experience of the Spirit as you describe, a person is filled with greater joy, love, peace, life and zeal for Jesus for starters. That would not be possible if this was "another spirit" as you suggest. Although I believe it's possible that if they seek just a Spirit they could be led astray , instead of seeking Jesus.

Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other wayward believers can say the same thing.

If God addresses the seven churches in Revelations and five of them were in danger of being left behind to go through the great tribulation, then something is required from us to discern far more readily than what is presently being done.

And it is another spirit to receive other than the one you had already received as promise for coming to and believing in Jesus IF they preach another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues when there is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Keeping the faith is the good fight. Just because someone says Jesus is Lord doesn't make him or her right when they also say... Satan is Lord as well. It is the deviation from the faith God would prune away as we should also. It doesn't mean they are not His.... it just means they are not abiding in Him in according to the garce of the Gospel for seeking another baptism of the Spirit is a departure from the faith and all that was gained by it, should be dropped.

May God cause the increase and the pruning.