Is It Possible for Christians To Perish in Hell ?

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D

DanDan

Guest
#1
Shalom, My Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus ! Is it possible for Christians to perish in hell ?

I believe that Salvation is only found in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and it is by God's Grace alone that

we are saved. I have read Matthew 7: 21 ( “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the

kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven, NIV.) for more than

once and I question myself " Does this mean that Christians can perish in hell ? " " How can we be sure that

we are really saved? " I haven't found the answer to my question yet so I am hoping that you guys can give

me the answer, thank you very much.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#2
Only God can tell you if you are truly saved. You can see the symptoms and the fruit if you have truly accepted the Holy Spirit in your heart and abide by the laws Jesus teaches in the Bible then you will increase in faith.

You can find people who claim to be Christians and followers of Christ in Hell. I think Judas the betrayer is there and he was numbered among Jesus' twelve apostles. He went out and heal the sick and did miracles in the name of Jesus but his HEART was far from the Lord.

We must protect our hearts and guard our tongues that no evil may enter in or proceed out of our lips. We must abhor things of this world.

Remember Galatians 5 (i that's the one about Fruits of the spirit and flesh).

Pray and seek after the Lord our God, Walk in His ways and Follow the Light of the Holy Spirit. remember the two main commandments:

Love God with all your heart, all your soul and all you mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. That is what Jesus told us all other laws were hung upon.
 
Feb 14, 2011
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#3
Shalom, My Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus ! Is it possible for Christians to perish in hell ?

I believe that Salvation is only found in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and it is by God's Grace alone that

we are saved. I have read Matthew 7: 21 ( “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the

kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven, NIV.) for more than

once and I question myself " Does this mean that Christians can perish in hell ? " " How can we be sure that

we are really saved? " I haven't found the answer to my question yet so I am hoping that you guys can give

me the answer, thank you very much.

rev.22:12. and behold, i come quickly: and my reward is with me, to give every man according
as his work shall be.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#4
It is impossible for a Christian to go to hell.

Many who profess to be Christians are not.

Even those who are Christians, if they do not continue in the faith, will be cut off.

Scriptural proof available upon request.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#5
Shalom, My Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus ! Is it possible for Christians to perish in hell ?

I believe that Salvation is only found in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and it is by God's Grace alone that

we are saved. I have read Matthew 7: 21 ( “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the

kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven, NIV.) for more than

once and I question myself " Does this mean that Christians can perish in hell ? " " How can we be sure that

we are really saved? " I haven't found the answer to my question yet so I am hoping that you guys can give

me the answer, thank you very much.

if our hearts do not condemn ourselves we know we are in right standing with God(parphrased)
 
I

Israel

Guest
#6
Shalom, My Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus ! Is it possible for Christians to perish in hell ?

I believe that Salvation is only found in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and it is by God's Grace alone that

we are saved. I have read Matthew 7: 21 ( “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the

kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven, NIV.) for more than

once and I question myself " Does this mean that Christians can perish in hell ? " " How can we be sure that

we are really saved? " I haven't found the answer to my question yet so I am hoping that you guys can give

me the answer, thank you very much.
Acts 16:16-19


16And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. 19And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,


We need to understand what a spirit of divination actually is. Did this spirit "lie"? What was wrong about what she said? What type of gain did she bring her masters? Also this spirit was a "HE".

Matthew 24:43-44


43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


rev.22:12. and behold, i come quickly: and my reward is with me, to give every man according
as his work shall be.
I do not know how you interpret this, so I will respond in similar fashion with a few verses as well.

1 Corinthians 3:13-18

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.


It is impossible for a Christian to go to hell.

Many who profess to be Christians are not.

Even those who are Christians, if they do not continue in the faith, will be cut off.

Scriptural proof available upon request.

Why do we believe this? It is God who gives food to ALL. That's everyone. Every man get's his full.

Matthew 5:

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#7
Why do we believe this?
Because it's what scripture teaches.

It is God who gives food to ALL. That's everyone. Every man get's his full.
Unfortunately not. The gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go by it. The gate is narrow and the way is difficult which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Enter by the narrow gate. Everyone who does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Not everyone who says, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven. The Lord will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you cursed, you who practice lawlessness, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41)

Matthew 5:

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
No relevance here. God in His mercy causes the sun to rise every day over the whole world. That doesn't mean that everyone is saved.
 
Feb 9, 2010
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#8
The truth is the only way that a Christian can be a Christian is if they act like Christ led by the Spirit.

People who confess Christ but do not do right do not belong to Christ.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity(Matthew 7:21-23).


48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth(Matthew 24:48-51).


5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God(2 Timothy 3:5-7).


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries(Hebrews 10:26-27).


26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway(1 Corinthians 9:26-27).


4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame(Hebrews 6:4-6).


19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour(2 Timothy 2:19-20).

Not everybody that says there a Christian is a Christian.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#9
Because it's what scripture teaches.
How so?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Who are these people? Can't be us right because we believe in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:50

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


No flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of God. Neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Are YOU not flesh and blood as the one you may condemn? In understanding that we are all in the same boat, I would rather learn this.

Romans 2:17-23

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?



Unfortunately not. The gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go by it. The gate is narrow and the way is difficult which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Enter by the narrow gate. Everyone who does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Not everyone who says, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven. The Lord will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you cursed, you who practice lawlessness, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'
Proverbs 16:9

9A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Again, we must understand the meaning of an unclean spirit.


No relevance here. God in His mercy causes the sun to rise every day over the whole world. That doesn't mean that everyone is saved.
How is this not relevant?

Isaiah 45:7

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

For us to believe that it is impossible for God to save the unrighteous as well is to deny the power of God. If you have the truth, then who did Jesus come for? If you are of the faith of Abraham, did He come to save you? How so?

Matthew 22:30-32

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 2:15-17

15And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

His sheep ALWAYS hear His voice. But what of the "other sheep"?

Romans 14:7-9

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.


Dead being the "other sheep" or unrighteous and the living being the children of the promise.
 
D

dmdave17

Guest
#10
I believe that is is not uncommon for novice believers to have doubts about salvation. Especially those who are still experiencing temptations, and occasionally giving in to them. I would offer the following evidence that once we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are saved forever (unless, of course, we then reject Him for some reason).

In his first letter to Timothy, Paul said "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life." (1 Timothy 1:15-16, emphasis added)

Jesus himself said "Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter,..." (Mark 3:28)

So, I believe that the only way a believer can burn in hell is to reject the message of the Gospel after he has received it, and believed. Most believers still sin. The difference is, they recognize their sins and are sorry for them.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#11
How so?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Who are these people? Can't be us right because we believe in Jesus.
Same thing as I said in the first place. You're agreeing with me, so I'm not sure why you think you're disagreeing.

1 Corinthians 15:50

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

No flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of God. Neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Are YOU not flesh and blood as the one you may condemn? In understanding that we are all in the same boat, I would rather learn this.
Difference is Christians are new creations through Christ. The old has passed away and we are led by the Spirit, not the flesh.

Romans 2:17-23

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Proverbs 16:9

9A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Again, we must understand the meaning of an unclean spirit.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Romans 11:36 says that all things are of Him and through Him.

How is this not relevant?

Isaiah 45:7

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

For us to believe that it is impossible for God to save the unrighteous as well is to deny the power of God.
It's not that it is impossible for God to save the unrighteous, since we are all unrighteous. The power of God is that He does save the unrighteous, and through His power they turn to righteousness.

If you have the truth, then who did Jesus come for?
The truth is known only through Him making it known.

If you are of the faith of Abraham, did He come to save you? How so?
Matthew 22:30-32

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 2:15-17

15And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

His sheep ALWAYS hear His voice. But what of the "other sheep"?

Romans 14:7-9

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Dead being the "other sheep" or unrighteous and the living being the children of the promise.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#12
Difference is Christians are new creations through Christ. The old has passed away and we are led by the Spirit, not the flesh.
Then one question. Can a gay person be saved still being gay?
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#13
Then one question. Can a gay person be saved still being gay?
No.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:4-10)
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#14
I guess I could have been more clear. When I said it is impossible for a Christian to go to hell, that is meant in terms of a person who continues in the faith.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#15
No.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:4-10)

How so? I will assume that you are not a homosexual. That being said, I sure you can come up with atleast one or more that is listed for which you have fallen for.

How can one be a new creature if he still has the mind of the old one?

Galatians 3:27-29


27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How is it possible for a gay person to sin in Christ when he is neither male NOR female? But as before, I will state it again. If it is a sin for YOU then for you it is sin. Anything that is not done in faith is sin.
 
May 21, 2009
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#16
You have to obey God. It's not enough to just say I believe in God. You must obey him.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#17
How so? I will assume that you are not a homosexual. That being said, I sure you can come up with atleast one or more that is listed for which you have fallen for.
Yes, Christians do sin, and the difference is that when a Christian sins, he does not continue in that sin as a pattern of his life, and therefore that sin does not define him and he is not known by it. If you read the passage I posted from 1 John 3 you'll see that it talks about practicing sin and practicing righteousness. "Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God."

A liar, for example, is someone who lies habitually. A Christian may slip up and lie occasionally, but in general he is an honest person. An idolater practices idolatry. A drunkard gets drunk on a regular basis. Et cetera. Each of these sins are committed in an unrepentant manner. This sort of lifestyle, living in sin, is what it is talking about in 1 John 3 when it speaks of those who are not of God. Christians do not live in sin, and they do not practice sin.

How can one be a new creature if he still has the mind of the old one?
Because by the power of God, we have the mind of Christ.

16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:16)

Salvation is not just fire insurance. It's being saved from the power of sin and death both eternally and in the here-and-now.

Galatians 3:27-29

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How is it possible for a gay person to sin in Christ when he is neither male NOR female? But as before, I will state it again. If it is a sin for YOU then for you it is sin. Anything that is not done in faith is sin.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#18
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

It's pretty clear.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#19
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

It's pretty clear.
To each his own, then. But the message I utter is not for you. It is for the gay person who struggles within himself to finally have peace in Christ.
 
May 21, 2009
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#20
if our hearts do not condemn ourselves we know we are in right standing with God(parphrased)

Self righteousness blinds people. Pride blinds them. I could go on but you see my point. People need to be checking there hearts all time. Not saying Gods will be done when they plan on doing there will no matter what. Lord Lord............I never knew you. That's people that thought they were good Christians.