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- Thread starter RationalThinker
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A
Nothing my children could do except lock themselves and get trapped while I worked on a way to open the door and save them from their nightmares.
so if your say move, its time for me to follow through and show them who you are. i don't want to live like i don't care. Oh i refuse... to sit around and wait for someone else to do what god has called me to do myself. but I refuse!
YouTube - Josh Wilson - I Refuse
everyone let your light shine in the basement of anyone's life who have managed to get themselves trapped and think God placed them there and not their own foolish actions.
SHINE!
YouTube - Newsboys (Shine)
so if your say move, its time for me to follow through and show them who you are. i don't want to live like i don't care. Oh i refuse... to sit around and wait for someone else to do what god has called me to do myself. but I refuse!
YouTube - Josh Wilson - I Refuse
everyone let your light shine in the basement of anyone's life who have managed to get themselves trapped and think God placed them there and not their own foolish actions.
SHINE!
YouTube - Newsboys (Shine)
J
I'm not a just God who must act as a judge of the earth.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html <--- click
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html <--- click
I think that I know where you are going with this. If you are referring to God sending sinners to hell consider the following:
Job 42: 1 Then Job answered the LORD and said, 2 "I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. 3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge ?' "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." 4 'Hear, now, and I will speak ; I will ask You, and You instruct me.' 5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear ; But now my eye sees You; 6 Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."
Isaiah 29: 16 You turn things around ! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding "?
Now, as to your scriptural references, Gen. 1: 25-27 refers to the spiritual creation of man in God's image, (remember God is spirit), Gen. 2: 18-19 refers to the body's creation.
Deuteronomy 24:16 refers to eternal blessings and curses, Deuteronomy 5: 9 refers to temporal blessings and curses.
I don't see any relevance in the other verses listed.
The point is simple... That your love to your own children is on a higher moral base that yahweh. You created your child, you love your child no matter what, and any sane person wouldn't torture their children. But Yahweh is different. I always found this strange when it's asked to me. I feel as though I have to say something of a co-op out to defeat it. Something like "God has his ways that we dont understand" "You cant judge god or his decisions" "He is above human morality". I find all of these to be very empty and lacking in a truly heart felt way. I am unable to answer it without using apologetic acrobatics, was just wondering if the nice people of the forum here could.
I would and always do all as a parent that will bring what is good and loving to my children.
But a year ago, no matter what we did, one of our children chose to do something that brought themself a prison and torture, in what this child thought was a perfect love.
We could do nothing, but pray, love them, and let this child know we are always waiting with open arms.
We rejoiced when this child returned.
One cannot make the choice for the child when they reach the age of reason, one can only hope they choose what is good and loving.
Rather than the toxic and destructive love that is torture and death!
God bless.
pickles
But a year ago, no matter what we did, one of our children chose to do something that brought themself a prison and torture, in what this child thought was a perfect love.
We could do nothing, but pray, love them, and let this child know we are always waiting with open arms.
We rejoiced when this child returned.
One cannot make the choice for the child when they reach the age of reason, one can only hope they choose what is good and loving.
Rather than the toxic and destructive love that is torture and death!
God bless.
pickles
Moral law as you have used it does not exist. The idea morality is objective rather than subjective is demonstrably false. Sam Harris is a great person to read up on for modern morality, and how it has been reshaped and tooled by our modern society. If you have ver taken an ethics course you will see why "moral law" is false. I will show you the Euthyphro Dilemma.
Euthyphro Dilemma
1) Is what is moral commanded by god because it is moral?
2) Is it moral because it is commanded by god?
Number 2 is just absurd. Anything God would command would "become" moral. Thereby falling under the Divine Command Theory. This would make the word good and bad not exist, as they would no longer have a standard of definition. There would be no values, just what was commanded. And no way for humanity to apply ethics, which obviously isnt true
.True morality has more to do with ethics and social communities than we give it credit for.
You failed to read the passages I supplied for you. Our knowledge is severely limited. Your analogy applies most directly to you. You are like many children today who hate their parents for limitations placed on them. But the children are ignorant of the wisdom of the parents, who have the children's best interest at heart.
To begin with, our knowledge of hell is limited. We know it is a terrible place. But we know not whether this pain is a physical pain, or a spiritual pain at being separated forever from our creator, and the knowledge of the greatness we have forfeited. This spiritual pain may indeed be worse than any physical pain we could endure. But what is the alternative? That God should deny his nature and ignore His own laws? By doing so, He would cease to be God, and all of us would be lost. God in his infinite love and mercy has provide a means for us to be reconciled to Him. His own Son had to die a tortuous death on a cross so that we might live! If you ignore this great act of Love, then you deserve the consequences.
My advice to you is to pray to God for the wisdom that you are most certainly lacking. And do not accuse your creator. This is very unwise, and will not be profitable to you.
To begin with, our knowledge of hell is limited. We know it is a terrible place. But we know not whether this pain is a physical pain, or a spiritual pain at being separated forever from our creator, and the knowledge of the greatness we have forfeited. This spiritual pain may indeed be worse than any physical pain we could endure. But what is the alternative? That God should deny his nature and ignore His own laws? By doing so, He would cease to be God, and all of us would be lost. God in his infinite love and mercy has provide a means for us to be reconciled to Him. His own Son had to die a tortuous death on a cross so that we might live! If you ignore this great act of Love, then you deserve the consequences.
My advice to you is to pray to God for the wisdom that you are most certainly lacking. And do not accuse your creator. This is very unwise, and will not be profitable to you.
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