Why would a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

[Fire7]

This is THE QUESTION of the ages. It's been asked millions of times by millions of people. But there has yet to be an answer.

The new going cliche' is that "God doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves." This sounds catchy, but how much truth really is there to this? This would lead one to examine the subject of Free will, election, and predeterminism. I've found that it is impossible to discuss hell without getting into other theological subjects, because it all ties together.

It then always leads back to the question, IF God is in fact omnipresent (everywhere at the same time) omnipotent (all powerful), and omniscient (all knowing), why did He ever allow "sin" or evil to enter into Heaven (where sin began in the form of pride)? If He doesn't make mistakes, how did He manage to create a defective angel? If He is all knowing, why was He furious at Lucifer's rebellion as if He was surprised? If He knew what Lucifer was going to do before He created Him (which the bible clearly illustrates that He did), this means that He created evil (Isaiah 45:7). The bible says that He had already made the plan of redemption from before the foundations of the world. So, it should be a no-brainer that God orchestrated all of the bad along with the good. David even said that God was in hell, as well as Heaven. It would makes sense, because the bible says that the Heavens of Heavens can't contain God, so hell would also have to be inside of God.

I don't understand how Christians come up with the argument that God is not behind disaster and destruction, when it is as clear as day in Isaiah 45:7 alone, not to meantion the many passages throughout scripture that reiterates God's for knowledge of the bad, as well as the good. If He was only all knowing, then, I could see the possibility of Him not being behind evil. But when you put "all powerful and ever present together with all seeing, you have a God who has the upper hand in every single situation and idea. He is the master chess player.

So, my question is, if God is love--not just has love but IS love, what does this say about love? Is love itself a deceitful term? We know that Go hates, because it states examples of His hate all through the bible. Not to be in any way sacrilegious (it's not blasphemous because I'm not accusing), but one cannot HELP but at least wonder if "God" is really a tyrant at least, and a moral monster at the most. Like what excuse can you offer for this biblical God. What reasoning can you come up with to make Him look like less than a universal manipulator?

I can already hear the blasphemy police coming. So, again, I'm not trying to be sacrilegious, I'm just being honest.

 

[dmdave17]

This is relatively easy to answer, I think. God is a few things beside just loving. He is all powerful. "I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27) He is eternal. "But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King." (Jeremiah 10:10) But, above all, he is Holy! "I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground. I am the Lord, who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy." (Leviticus 11:45)

In fact, God is all these things before He is loving and merciful. And since He is altogether holy, He cannot abide sin! Anyone guilty of sin can never enter His presence. However, in His great love for mankind, He sent His only Son to atone for all our sins. On earth, Christ was without sin. When He died, and rose again, He became our surrogate, as it were. When God looks at believers, He doesn't see a sinful human; he sees His blameless Son, who is altogether worthy to enter His presence.

Therefore, the "catch" as you seem to imply, is that mankind has to accept God's free gift of salvation. We must trust Christ as our Lord and Savior. Thus, the most quoted verse in the Bible, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

Just remember, "holy" before "loving".

 

[Fire7]

You also do realize that "God" has a poor track record. Creates a defective angel who turns on Him, creates another race of beings called humans to replace defective angel, humans become defective, He then has to create a substitute for humans, which is half God, half human, who dies to redeem a the race of people who just might make it into Heaven and might not. Not only this, but He actually declares in the bible that not all people will be saved. So, we, in turn, have to live life paranoid--wishing and hoping that we will be one of the lucky "chosen" people who will make be saved from eternal damnation.

 

[Fire7]

This is relatively easy to answer, I think. God is a few things beside just loving. He is all powerful. "I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27) He is eternal. "But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King." (Jeremiah 10:10) But, above all, he is Holy! "I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground. I am the Lord, who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy." (Leviticus 11:45)

In fact, God is all these things before He is loving and merciful. And since He is altogether holy, He cannot abide sin! Anyone guilty of sin can never enter His presence. However, in His great love for mankind, He sent His only Son to atone for all our sins. On earth, Christ was without sin. When He died, and rose again, He became our surrogate, as it were. When God looks at believers, He doesn't see a sinful human; he sees His blameless Son, who is altogether worthy to enter His presence.

Therefore, the "catch" as you seem to imply, is that mankind has to accept God's free gift of salvation. We must trust Christ as our Lord and Savior. Thus, the most quoted verse in the Bible, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

Just remember, "holy" before "loving".

You inadvertently reiterated my point. If God is indeed Holy, then how could darkness and uncleanness come out of Him. which the bible clearly states that it does, in so many words. Any sin that is here, it was created by God. So how can God get mad about something that e created. That sounds schiphrenic. And the bible says you're worng. He's not "holy before loving". The bible says He IS love, meaning it is His identity. Just as you are Human or the male or female gender, "God IS love."

 

[trust_in_the_name]

You're making the false assumption that, for example, God never intended for Lucifer to fall. However, Romans 11:36 is clear: all things are of Him, through Him, and to Him. Satan is an instrumental part of God's plan, as anyone who reads scripture at a more than superficial level can tell you. Your argument is, "I don't understand it, therefore it's wrong." The reality is, you just don't understand.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Romans 11:33)

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 

[loveschild]

Well actually God was one step ahead of the devil. He made people to put Satan under there feet. Some are doing this as we speak. He put dominion of Satan in the hands of man. Man screwed it up so he had to come as man to defeat Satan. And as God is not a liar he put the power back into the hands of man by using his name. Bad stuff going on is because of all the people who don't know there power or jobs in the name of Jesus. This world was leased to us for a certain amount of time. Even when Jesus was casting out devil, the devils said why are coming before the time. They knew God had it written that the world was given to man to have dominion. And that man had the power over demons. They weren't thinking as Jesus as a man. They knew he was God. But God fooled them and came as man and gave us his power in his name. Time people started getting with it don't you think?

 

[wakeup]

You also do realize that "God" has a poor track record. Creates a defective angel who turns on Him, creates another race of beings called humans to replace defective angel, humans become defective, He then has to create a substitute for humans, which is half God, half human, who dies to redeem a the race of people who just might make it into Heaven and might not. Not only this, but He actually declares in the bible that not all people will be saved. So, we, in turn, have to live life paranoid--wishing and hoping that we will be one of the lucky "chosen" people who will make be saved from eternal damnation.

i am the hand that hold the axe. jer.ch.10.

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

Greetings,

There are many misconceptions regarding the character, and attributes of God. Yes, God is love, but that's not all God is. Sometimes we forget what the world COULD be like without the Holy Spirit restraining all the evil that could be manifested. We should keep in mind that the evils of the world are directly perpetuated by man (fallen man that is). God gave us a gift of dominion over the Earth and we have abused that gift, so the blame would lie on mankind and not God. For example, if I gave someone 10,000 dollars as a benevolent gift to sustain themselves and then they turn around and spend that money on drugs, or engineering ways to oppress their neighbors, who would be to blame for that particular evil? There are several misnomers within your thread posting and it seems that you should study a little more extensively before you make any more blanked claims in this manner. I am confident that if you are sincerely trying to seek an answer for your questions God will reveal that answer to you, if you are not sincere, you might not ever find the truth in which you seek.

 

[David_1]

I'm not sure God could have made us perfect.

I think it would be like this:

The difference between a man dating/marrying and having a relationship with a real woman or...... making a doll/mannequin to look perfect and to pretend that's his wife.

He could set the doll up and talk to her, and serve her tea. She doesn't answer back, if she ages, slap a coat of paint on her.... but after a while it's really just him talking to himself.

People are themselves a miracle of Creation. Heck even if you are an evolutionist you have to marvel at the creation of man/woman.

We rule this planet. We are amazing beings, and we are free to make decisions. Free to be less than perfect.

We can't save ourselves from Death, but there is a promise. A Savior.

My two cents.

 

[AnandaHya]

God created a beuatiful world. He just let people have free will and with that free will people decided to tear down the castle instead of cherish it and play nice. they decided to pull up all the plants instead of tend them like God asked us to.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

I will say it like this, He is powerful and high.....no matter what He does it is holy....does this make sense.....
He could have said, well you know stealing is right...then this world would be different. So pretty much He is so holy that if He did wrong it wouldn't be wrong because He is the non-created the self exist. See God is so high above everything, if He creates evil it doesn't make Him evil

Sin means disobeying God.....how then can God disobey Himself???? are you seeing my view friend?

God bless

 

[resurrection33]

I believe hell is the mess we make of our lives when we are not living righteously.

 

[AnandaHya]

I believe hell is the mess we make of our lives when we are not living righteously.

that is just a taste of what hell might be like. in this world there is still hope, there is still the presence of God. there is love and people and connections. Hell is a dark burning place where selfish people are left to their own devices, take away compassion for others and any influence from God and you will see Hell on Earth.add in demons that enjoy causing pain and suffering. Genocides and war remind me of what demons like to do to people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that is just a taste of what hell might be like. in this world there is still hope, there is still the presence of God. there is love and people and connections. Hell is a dark burning place where selfish people are left to their own devices, take away compassion for others and any influence from God and you will see Hell on Earth.add in demons that enjoy causing pain and suffering. Genocides and war remind me of what demons like to do to people.

I think it is even worse. Hell is a place where we get to contemplate and be depressed over the fact God gave us every opportunity to trust in him, And we, because of our foolish desires, chose to reject him, and we have an eternity to do this.

 

[Inaperfectworld93]

Sin made earth such a "hateful" place. God gave us free will. Some chose to do good and please God..

 

[superdave5221]

This is THE QUESTION of the ages. It's been asked millions of times by millions of people. But there has yet to be an answer.

The new going cliche' is that "God doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves." This sounds catchy, but how much truth really is there to this? This would lead one to examine the subject of Free will, election, and predeterminism. I've found that it is impossible to discuss hell without getting into other theological subjects, because it all ties together.

It then always leads back to the question, IF God is in fact omnipresent (everywhere at the same time) omnipotent (all powerful), and omniscient (all knowing), why did He ever allow "sin" or evil to enter into Heaven (where sin began in the form of pride)? If He doesn't make mistakes, how did He manage to create a defective angel? If He is all knowing, why was He furious at Lucifer's rebellion as if He was surprised? If He knew what Lucifer was going to do before He created Him (which the bible clearly illustrates that He did), this means that He created evil (Isaiah 45:7). The bible says that He had already made the plan of redemption from before the foundations of the world. So, it should be a no-brainer that God orchestrated all of the bad along with the good. David even said that God was in hell, as well as Heaven. It would makes sense, because the bible says that the Heavens of Heavens can't contain God, so hell would also have to be inside of God.

I don't understand how Christians come up with the argument that God is not behind disaster and destruction, when it is as clear as day in Isaiah 45:7 alone, not to meantion the many passages throughout scripture that reiterates God's for knowledge of the bad, as well as the good. If He was only all knowing, then, I could see the possibility of Him not being behind evil. But when you put "all powerful and ever present together with all seeing, you have a God who has the upper hand in every single situation and idea. He is the master chess player.

So, my question is, if God is love--not just has love but IS love, what does this say about love? Is love itself a deceitful term? We know that Go hates, because it states examples of His hate all through the bible. Not to be in any way sacrilegious (it's not blasphemous because I'm not accusing), but one cannot HELP but at least wonder if "God" is really a tyrant at least, and a moral monster at the most. Like what excuse can you offer for this biblical God. What reasoning can you come up with to make Him look like less than a universal manipulator?

I can already hear the blasphemy police coming. So, again, I'm not trying to be sacrilegious, I'm just being honest.

As you yourself stated, we send ourselves to hell. Just because you don't like that answer, and want to call it a cliche, doesn't make it untrue. It just sounds like you are wanting someone to refute what you know to be true, but would rather it not be.

Hell was a natural byproduct of the creation. Because God wanted to create humans and angels with the free will to accept to love Him, or to deny Him, this self-limitation of God's sovereignty allowed for sin to be committed by free will acts of these agents. Because God is holy, and cannot abide in sin, He had to provide for a means of separating Himself from this sin. That in effect is what Hell is, the eternal separation from God.

Because He knew man would eventually sin, due to the existence of evil, (which had to exist in order for there to be a choice), He purposed a plan in which man could be atoned for. This would require the death of His own son. Only a loving God would do this.

Your solution in not allowing sin in God's creation results in destroying man's ability to choose good from evil, or for that matter, to even know the difference. We could never love God in any real sense of the word, for we would not know what love is. How can we know love, if we have never experienced the absense of it? Your solution is a sterile world, with God controlling everything, even our ability to choose to love Him. God doesn't want that. That was Satan's proposal.

To expand on your "cliche", if you ignore and reject God all of your life, you are basically saying, "leave me alone God", then in the end, He gives you what you want. He leaves you alone in Hell.

 

[wakeup]

This is THE QUESTION of the ages. It's been asked millions of times by millions of people. But there has yet to be an answer.

The new going cliche' is that "God doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves." This sounds catchy, but how much truth really is there to this? This would lead one to examine the subject of Free will, election, and predeterminism. I've found that it is impossible to discuss hell without getting into other theological subjects, because it all ties together.

It then always leads back to the question, IF God is in fact omnipresent (everywhere at the same time) omnipotent (all powerful), and omniscient (all knowing), why did He ever allow "sin" or evil to enter into Heaven (where sin began in the form of pride)? If He doesn't make mistakes, how did He manage to create a defective angel? If He is all knowing, why was He furious at Lucifer's rebellion as if He was surprised? If He knew what Lucifer was going to do before He created Him (which the bible clearly illustrates that He did), this means that He created evil (Isaiah 45:7). The bible says that He had already made the plan of redemption from before the foundations of the world. So, it should be a no-brainer that God orchestrated all of the bad along with the good. David even said that God was in hell, as well as Heaven. It would makes sense, because the bible says that the Heavens of Heavens can't contain God, so hell would also have to be inside of God.

I don't understand how Christians come up with the argument that God is not behind disaster and destruction, when it is as clear as day in Isaiah 45:7 alone, not to meantion the many passages throughout scripture that reiterates God's for knowledge of the bad, as well as the good. If He was only all knowing, then, I could see the possibility of Him not being behind evil. But when you put "all powerful and ever present together with all seeing, you have a God who has the upper hand in every single situation and idea. He is the master chess player.

So, my question is, if God is love--not just has love but IS love, what does this say about love? Is love itself a deceitful term? We know that Go hates, because it states examples of His hate all through the bible. Not to be in any way sacrilegious (it's not blasphemous because I'm not accusing), but one cannot HELP but at least wonder if "God" is really a tyrant at least, and a moral monster at the most. Like what excuse can you offer for this biblical God. What reasoning can you come up with to make Him look like less than a universal manipulator?

I can already hear the blasphemy police coming. So, again, I'm not trying to be sacrilegious, I'm just being honest.

yes it is true ,God creates evil,he created satan didnt he?
but you know how it goes; we can not preach these things to the sheep: they wont come back next sunday, so we just tell them smooth things,you know like; God loves you, he will bless you and take care of your problems,this makes them feel good. somehow,if you realy come to think of it, people still have this spirit of ''get'' inside,they always want to get. and also, if you start preaching about the second coming,they might call you doomsday preacher,and negative. so stay away from that kind of preaching. and thats why there is so much sootht saying going on. thank you, take care.

''wakeup''.

 

[Israel]

Romans 8:18-23


18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


1 Corinthians 2:10-14

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All men have recieved of the spirit which is of God. It was given to us so that we may know the things FREELY given to us. Whoever you are or whatever you believe, the sons of God AS WELL AS the creature was made subject to vanity. If you believe that you are a son of God, then you view those that are the creature not to be you. Then you must also believe that through hope, the one you believe is that creature outside of YOUR belief will be saved also. This is why it is what it is. So that God can save us all.

 

[pickles]

God loved all of us so much, He gave us free will, the gift to choose.
So that we would not be slaves, but be called His children.
The terrible things are the result of sin.
There is understanding in this through faith.
The main reason, so that we will know the profound greatness of His love for us.
I know this may not make much sence, but in time, one will understand this.
Many have given answers here, all good.
But the question that is good to ask of one's self, is why so many, are unwilling to choose Jesus, thus bringing the love and power of God Our Father' slove in Jesus, that brings all evil crushed under their feet?

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[gotime]

God is love and he gives the gift of free choice. Yes God knew that Lucifer would become satan but if he had just not made Lucifer for this reason then could it really be said that we have free choice? second real love is risky. because its not real unless it is freely given. thus it can also be taken.

This was bound to happen sooner or later. Lucifer was the first to chose to withhold his love from God. only problem is, is that God is the source of life and love so to leave only makes you automatically become more hatfull and so on. Lucifer then tempted humanity and humanity chose to follow Satan rather than God hence the problems on this earth. that is why Jesus came to give us the opportunity to chose again to follow God. again it is our choice but this earth has been left for so long so that the true fruits of rebellion could be seen and understood so that God will be proven to be love.

Hell is a choice we either chose to follow God and avoid hell or we chose hell to avoid God. God wants us all to be saved but he will not force anyone. also after all this is done. no one will go this way again because we have this earth as an example. and none will want that again. the only reason God has not destroyed this earth already is he want everyone to have a chance to have eternal life.

if you are on a train and there is a cliff that it is headed for and i warn you then it is up to you to either get of the train or stay. the end result is based on your decision. hope this helps a little.