The mystery of the 7 candlesticks and the 7 stars.

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S

Scotth1960

Guest
#41

Well since the Roman church

destroyed any documents which did not agree with their

theology, we will never know this will we? Why do you keep

going back to what Men said, and not look at the word of God

and see if the people you are basing your faith on had it right

or not?


The early Church all believed in the Trinity, and Revelation was

a document written to the early Christians, not a document for

centuries later to interpret in terms of their own age. Anything

still future is clearly indicated by the context, as in Revelation

21 and 22.


The early Church age concluded in 381 with the First Council of

Constantinople, and brought to a perfect summation and

summary the Faith of the early Church: the Holy Creed of 318

Orthodox Christian Fathers. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS Why do you listen to people like John Nelson Darby, C.I.

Scofield, John F. Walvoord, Clarence Larkin, Tim LaHaye, Hal

Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, John Hagee, whose ideas on

eschatology/ Bible prophecy have all been proved many many

times to be utterly and completely false. Do you listen to

people like that?

Christ is coming again. Leave it at that. Take care.

[/b]


Like I said before. Half the stuff in the book of

revelations could not have happened yet, It would have

been impossible. Interpreting scripture takes logic as

well as reasoning. If something could not have

happened yet, It is reasonable to assume it has not

happened yet. And to say it has happened, because a

bunch of men in the 1800 years ago said it did, is not


reasonable at all
[/quote]

And to say it has not yet happened, because a man

almost 200 years ago said that most of Revelation is still

in the future, does not make it true, does not make it

the truth! Why should we believe John Nelson Darby,

when he did not start preaching his pre tribulation

rapture theory until Margaret MacDonald in Scotland

had her pre tribulation vision?

In Erie PA Scott

It is not proven that most of Revelation did not happen yet.

That is an unproven assumption, and it is wrong in comparison

to Revelation 1:1, which says these things must shortly come to

pass. So, these things that John was writing about came to

pass shortly after John wrote Revelation, and that would make

sense in the light of what happened in 70 AD. It makes no

sense at all if Revelation was written after 70 AD, it would not

be a prophecy, it would be history. And why would John write

"these things must shortly come to pass", if it was already

history? That is logical, for those of you who demand logic, it

doesn't make sense that Revelation was written after 70 AD. It

talked about the temple in Revelation 11. So, when John wrote

Revelation 11, the temple was still standing, and that would

have been in the years before 70 AD. Take care.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42

And to say it has not yet happened, because a man

almost 200 years ago said that most of Revelation is still

in the future, does not make it true, does not make it

the truth! Why should we believe John Nelson Darby,

when he did not start preaching his pre tribulation

rapture theory until Margaret MacDonald in Scotland

had her pre tribulation vision?

In Erie PA Scott



Scott, where do you get this stuff?

Did you even read what I wrote about stuff that COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET? do we just ignore this?? I don't get you.

Yet you say you do not follow men?


It is not proven that most of Revelation did not happen yet.

That is an unproven assumption, and it is wrong in comparison

to Revelation 1:1, which says these things must shortly come to

pass.
Yet Jesus said that a bunch of stuff will happen, Including the possability that mankind will wipe itself of the face of the earth, AND HE WILL RETURN before this happens. And "this generation will in no means pass away" Yet guess what. Jesus has not returned yet. Remember God blinks an eye and 1000 years pass. So between now and then he has only blinked twice!

The facts are many things have not happened it is impossible they could have happened, and it does not matter who says what. What matters is proof!


So, these things that John was writing about came to

pass shortly after John wrote Revelation, and that would make

sense in the light of what happened in 70 AD. It makes no

sense at all if Revelation was written after 70 AD, it would not

be a prophecy, it would be history. And why would John write

"these things must shortly come to pass", if it was already

history?
Ok, so we make things that are impossible to have happened, and force them to happen. Just so some men can be right. Sorry Scott. I do not follow men. I follow reality. Mankind could not have wiped them selves off the earth yet. Christ has not returned. There were no flying machines shooting missiles in 70 AD. 1/3 of the earth was not destroyed by fire from heaven. These things have not happened, it does not matter what anyone says.

That is logical, for those of you who demand logic, it

doesn't make sense that Revelation was written after 70 AD. It

talked about the temple in Revelation 11. So, when John wrote

Revelation 11, the temple was still standing, and that would

have been in the years before 70 AD. Take care.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
The temple in rev 11. The world will trample on it for 42 months. Hmm, that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 ad it was destroyed in days. The Temple in Rev 11 is the one the Jews at this very moment are planing to rebuild in jerusalem. The one who could be completed in 5 years.


Sorry Scott. What might appear logical to you does not fit reality. Reality will always trump someones logic which goes against it.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#43


Scott, where do you get this stuff?

Did you even read what I wrote about stuff that COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET? do we just ignore this?? I don't get you.

Yet you say you do not follow men?


Yet Jesus said that a bunch of stuff will happen, Including the possability that mankind will wipe itself of the face of the earth, AND HE WILL RETURN before this happens. And "this generation will in no means pass away" Yet guess what. Jesus has not returned yet. Remember God blinks an eye and 1000 years pass. So between now and then he has only blinked twice!

The facts are many things have not happened it is impossible they could have happened, and it does not matter who says what. What matters is proof!


Ok, so we make things that are impossible to have happened, and force them to happen. Just so some men can be right. Sorry Scott. I do not follow men. I follow reality. Mankind could not have wiped them selves off the earth yet. Christ has not returned. There were no flying machines shooting missiles in 70 AD. 1/3 of the earth was not destroyed by fire from heaven. These things have not happened, it does not matter what anyone says.



The temple in rev 11. The world will trample on it for 42 months. Hmm, that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 ad it was destroyed in days. The Temple in Rev 11 is the one the Jews at this very moment are planing to rebuild in jerusalem. The one who could be completed in 5 years.


Sorry Scott. What might appear logical to you does not fit reality. Reality will always trump someones logic which goes against it.

Only God's will will happen. So if it is not God's will that there be a nuclear war, there will

not be a nuclear war. Only God knows the future. Those who claim to know what God

wants are making idols out of themselves. Christ isn't called the Prince of Peace for

nothing. He is against the idea of nuclear war. He doesn't want His creation destroyed.

Man is responsible to co-operate with God's will, which as any one who is sane must admit,

God does not want global thermonuclear war. God is omnipotent, and is fully capable of

preventing man from destroying himself. Take care.

Reality is God is love. Nuclear war is not reality. If it ever happens, it will be against

God's will, not because of it. God is perfectly capable of ending the world in His own way,

without the aid of man. It's wrong to misinterpret the book of Revelation. It's wrong to

pit predictive prophecy against the ten commandments and the Book of Joshua.

Therefore Choose Life. That is God's command to mankind. Don't do it. Choose life!

Man has a choice to make. He can obey God if he so choses. Nuclear war is not God's

choice, nor is it inevitable. And so, John Hagee is wrong. If I'm wrong, and nuclear war

happens, it still won't be God's will.


 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#44


Scott, where do you get this stuff?

Did you even read what I wrote about stuff that COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET? do we just ignore this?? I don't get you.

Yet you say you do not follow men?


Yet Jesus said that a bunch of stuff will happen, Including the possability that mankind will wipe itself of the face of the earth, AND HE WILL RETURN before this happens. And "this generation will in no means pass away" Yet guess what. Jesus has not returned yet. Remember God blinks an eye and 1000 years pass. So between now and then he has only blinked twice!

The facts are many things have not happened it is impossible they could have happened, and it does not matter who says what. What matters is proof!


Ok, so we make things that are impossible to have happened, and force them to happen. Just so some men can be right. Sorry Scott. I do not follow men. I follow reality. Mankind could not have wiped them selves off the earth yet. Christ has not returned. There were no flying machines shooting missiles in 70 AD. 1/3 of the earth was not destroyed by fire from heaven. These things have not happened, it does not matter what anyone says.



The temple in rev 11. The world will trample on it for 42 months. Hmm, that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 ad it was destroyed in days. The Temple in Rev 11 is the one the Jews at this very moment are planing to rebuild in jerusalem. The one who could be completed in 5 years.


Sorry Scott. What might appear logical to you does not fit reality. Reality will always trump someones logic which goes against it.


So you stand convicted of NOT

believing what Revelation says.


Verse One:

"THE REVELATION OF JESUS

CHRIST, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM

TO SHOW HIS SERVANTS --

THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY

COME TO PASS." Rev. 1:1 NKJV

IT SAYS THINGS WHICH MUST

COME TO PASS SHORTLY. MUST.

NOT MAYBE. AND SHORTLY, NOT

2000 YEARS AFTER SAINT JOHN

WROTE. SHORTLY. IN JOHN'S

OWN DAYS. ON WHAT BASIS DO

YOU DENY THE WORD "SHORTLY"

DOES NOT MEAN SHORTLY, BUT

MEANS A GAP OF 2000 YEARS AND

AN ALLEGED FUTURE 70TH WEEK

OF DANIEL. DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK

WAS ALREADY FULFILLED BY 34

AD IN THE PAST. IN ERIE PA

SCOTT R. HARRINGTON
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#45
revelation1:20.The mystery of the 7stars which thou sawest in my right hand,and the7candlesticks. The7 stars are the angels of the 7churches:and the7 candlesticks which thou sawest are the 7churches:
where are the seven churches today? these literal 7churches did exist back then in asia minor. but where are they today? these churches are here today, but they are not 7literal churches,they are7diferent levels of churches,some are dying,some are about to die,some are just surviving,some are just steady,some are doing very well materially,but blind spiritually; this is the case with the 7th church:the church of laodicia.
rev.3:17.because thou sayest,i am rich,and increased with goods,and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched,miserable,and poor , and blind, and naked(no knowledge).(no covering)(like adam and eve).
v.18. i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou may be rich: and white raiment,that thou may be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.

now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''

www.gregboyd.org/qa/bible/what-is-the-proper-way-to-interpret-revelation


Take care.
 
Mar 11, 2009
463
2
0
#47
Walking in the midst of the golden candlesticks, Jesus is demonstrating that he will be God to each of the pure Christian churches, and will not change (Hebrews 13:8). He identifies himself by different attributes in each of these ages, but he is still the same God, the Alpha and Omega, and everything in between.

The Seven Church Ages..

...What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus 53-170 , and unto Smyrna 170-312, and unto Pergamos 312-606, and unto Thyatira 606-1520, and unto Sardis 1520-1750, and unto Philadelphia 1750-1906, and unto Laodicea 1906-.
You dont know what you are talking about.The spirit you have is false.I will show you the false spirit you have.
isiah;
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isa(Jesus) never exalted himself calling himself God like lucifer.He was lowly riding on a colt ass,He in the likeness of God became a servant.

You wana put the same condemnation Lucifer has on Jesus christ and i think its a insult to him.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#48
why all the shouting???

1 Corinthians 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.


it doesn't matter who is right, all is wrong without LOVE.

contention is the fruit of the FLESH and shows you that there is a spirit of darkness at work. Especially NAME calling.

Attack the IDEA not the person, please. don't tear up your brothers and sister but instead build up and edify.

SCOTT, is in an Orthodox church, He needs prayers not arguments. so please just pray for each other and let the HOLY SPIRIT work.

do you think your WORDS have MORE power then JESUS?
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49


So you stand convicted of NOT

believing what Revelation says.


Verse One:

"THE REVELATION OF JESUS

CHRIST, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM

TO SHOW HIS SERVANTS --

THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY

COME TO PASS." Rev. 1:1 NKJV

IT SAYS THINGS WHICH MUST

COME TO PASS SHORTLY. MUST.

NOT MAYBE. AND SHORTLY, NOT

2000 YEARS AFTER SAINT JOHN

WROTE. SHORTLY. IN JOHN'S

OWN DAYS. ON WHAT BASIS DO

YOU DENY THE WORD "SHORTLY"

DOES NOT MEAN SHORTLY, BUT

MEANS A GAP OF 2000 YEARS AND

AN ALLEGED FUTURE 70TH WEEK

OF DANIEL. DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK

WAS ALREADY FULFILLED BY 34

AD IN THE PAST. IN ERIE PA

SCOTT R. HARRINGTON

Scott,

I am not going to ask again to fix your font, and stop yelling, there is no need. I can read what you say no matter what size it is.

As for this post. I would stand convicted if I did not read the whole book and just took one verse to translate the whole book. Why is it you refuse to look at the evidence I posted which proves that revelations could not have been completed in 70 AD but want to look at one verse? Do we translate a whole book of probably 1000 verses of 1 verse?

If you want to base your belief on one verse. Feel free. But stop yelling at the rest of us because we chose to look at the whole book, and look at the reality that many of the things which are said to happen could not have happened, and is impossible that they did.


 
Jul 30, 2010
882
4
0
#50
Scott,

I am not going to ask again to fix your font, and stop yelling, there is no need. I can read what you say no matter what size it is.

As for this post. I would stand convicted if I did not read the whole book and just took one verse to translate the whole book. Why is it you refuse to look at the evidence I posted which proves that revelations could not have been completed in 70 AD but want to look at one verse? Do we translate a whole book of probably 1000 verses of 1 verse?
If you want to base your belief on one verse. Feel free. But stop yelling at the rest of us because we chose to look at the whole book, and look at the reality that many of the things which are said to happen could not have happened, and is impossible that they did.
wow, that hurt my eyes...... and my ears!
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#52


Scott, where do you get this stuff?

Did you even read what I wrote about stuff that COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET? do we just ignore this?? I don't get you.

Yet you say you do not follow men?


Yet Jesus said that a bunch of stuff will happen, Including the possability that mankind will wipe itself of the face of the earth, AND HE WILL RETURN before this happens. And "this generation will in no means pass away" Yet guess what. Jesus has not returned yet. Remember God blinks an eye and 1000 years pass. So between now and then he has only blinked twice!

The facts are many things have not happened it is impossible they could have happened, and it does not matter who says what. What matters is proof!


Ok, so we make things that are impossible to have happened, and force them to happen. Just so some men can be right. Sorry Scott. I do not follow men. I follow reality. Mankind could not have wiped them selves off the earth yet. Christ has not returned. There were no flying machines shooting missiles in 70 AD. 1/3 of the earth was not destroyed by fire from heaven. These things have not happened, it does not matter what anyone says.



The temple in rev 11. The world will trample on it for 42 months. Hmm, that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 ad it was destroyed in days. The Temple in Rev 11 is the one the Jews at this very moment are planing to rebuild in jerusalem. The one who could be completed in 5 years.


Sorry Scott. What might appear logical to you does not fit reality. Reality will always trump someones logic which goes against it.
That depends upon whether or not the term 1/3 of the earth means 1/3 of the whole earth, or 1/3 of the whole land of Israel/ Palestine. I am sure it's a question of whether or not the Greek word means whole earth or whole land (Palestine). In the context of a prophecy by St. John referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in the wars of Nero in 66 AD, the Romans did lay seize to the Jews for 42 months. So prophecy was fulfilled. And Matthew 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. 1/3 of the land of Israel being destroyed by the Romans is more likely than just 1/3 of the whole earth. It is a PRESUPPOSITION that most of Revelation refers to THE FUTURE, or the EARTH'S FUTURE, and not to a PARTIAL PRETERIST view of REVELATION.
Only the Second Coming of Christ is future, but the Bible says a great apostasy will happen in the days before the return of Christ. A falling away and a coming of the man of sin, before the days whenever Christ returns. No man knows the day nor hour when Christ returns. Not matter what Harold Camping and his cult-like followers are saying about this year 2011 AD (as they did for 1994 AD), or what the Mayan calendar said about 2012 AD. Go figure. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS "Reality will always trump someone's logic which goes against it". Define "reality". Isn't reality "no man knows the future" (no man knoweth the day nor the hour?)?

 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#53
wow, that hurt my eyes...... and my ears!

I do not base my belief on one verse. The book of Revelation is just one part of the NT, and not my whole NT based belief. But why do you ignore the word "shortly" in Rev. 1:1, and say that the book of Revelation refers to our future, to the future, and not to the days 'shortly" after John wrote Revelation? Was John lying, and was St. John deceived? Was there an error, and wasn't he in contact with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself? How could Jesus Christ make a mistake, and how could St. John make a mistake, if Revelation was not fulfilled SHORTLY after it was written? Does shortly mean 2000 or more years after the first century AD? You tell me. Do you have all the answers regarding the future, and the book of Revelation? No. Me neither! I don't understand everything about this book of the NT. I don't understand every verse of the whole Bible, do you? In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54
That depends upon whether or not the term 1/3 of the earth means 1/3 of the whole earth, or 1/3 of the whole land of Israel/ Palestine. I am sure it's a question of whether or not the Greek word means whole earth or whole land (Palestine). In the context of a prophecy by St. John referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in the wars of Nero in 66 AD, the Romans did lay seize to the Jews for 42 months. So prophecy was fulfilled. And Matthew 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. 1/3 of the land of Israel being destroyed by the Romans is more likely than just 1/3 of the whole earth. It is a PRESUPPOSITION that most of Revelation refers to THE FUTURE, or the EARTH'S FUTURE, and not to a PARTIAL PRETERIST view of REVELATION.
Only the Second Coming of Christ is future, but the Bible says a great apostasy will happen in the days before the return of Christ. A falling away and a coming of the man of sin, before the days whenever Christ returns. No man knows the day nor hour when Christ returns. Not matter what Harold Camping and his cult-like followers are saying about this year 2011 AD (as they did for 1994 AD), or what the Mayan calendar said about 2012 AD. Go figure. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS "Reality will always trump someone's logic which goes against it". Define "reality". Isn't reality "no man knows the future" (no man knoweth the day nor the hour?)?

So let me get this straight. The book of revelations are written to the 7 Churches throughout the world (which includes us) yet the world is not the world, But israel? wow. do you not see how desperate people are to make their belief appear to be true? There is no way Israel is what it meant.

2nd. Jersualem was not destroyed by fire from heaven, it was destroyed by an army. so there are two strikes against fulfillment of this in AD 70. So who do I listen to? Men, or the word??

As for matt 24. Tell me how mankind could have destroyed itself in AD 70? What is the last two men alive going to kill each other with a knife?? so that no man is alive? Jesus said in matt 24 the reason he comes back is to prevent mankind from killing himself off. This proves that it has not been completed yet!. So again, do I listen to men, or the word?
 
V

VRJ

Guest
#55
THE SEVEN CHURCHES

Revelation 1:20; "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

LET'S LOOK AT THE MEANING OF WORDS": (using James Strongs Concordence) Remember...this mystery is revealing itself now.

seven..........without even looking that word up we should know it means complete...
stars..........(#729,4766,4731,2476,5087,2740,2545...you have to do a little research here to get the deeper meanings) is their position...to stand, abide, continue, hold up, lay, still, forth, present, solid, stable, strong, to place upright, make, purpose, to be burned, set on fire, consume, light.

Who is told to stand?................
Who is told to abide?...............
Who is told to continue, be strong,....we see all these words listed in scriptures.
Stars are talking about a group of people to .........stand, to abide,.............to be strong...............

...to be burned, set on fire, consume, light.... these are those who come out of the tribulation..and stand upright on the sea of glass. Glass is made by extreme heat. Who stands on the sea of glass....the great Multitude.

present.........Revelation 6:2; " And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. bow..when you look up the meaning of this word it means....a present...to be delivered (to Christ) II Tim. 4:8; "henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

which thou sawest in my right hand.............remember in Acts 7:56, Steven saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God....even the tabernacle in the desert was set up as a court room. The judge faced East....on his North side (left hand was the proscuting attorney...Satan..serpents/scorpions) on the South side (right hand was the defense attorney...Jesus) These are the two angels facing each other on the ark of the covenant.

Job 9:9; "Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south." Arcturus....the meat eating bear...Orion....the hunter with his club in one hand and the dead carcus of the lion (christians are to put on the image of Christ...the great Multitude that have been killed) in the other (todays versions show a shield...which is mis repretation) Both Arcturu (was a constellation...now considered a star) and Orion are facing......Pleiades..which are a group of stars..seven stars...in the constallation of the bull. Animal sacrifice .....those in the bull.

...chambers ...Ezra 8:29; "Watch ye, and keep them, until ye weigh them before the chief of the priests and the Levites, and chief of the fathers of Israel, at Jerusalem, in the chambers of the house of the Lord." (ye weigh them....Revelation 6:5)

and the seven golden candlesticks........Zechariah 4:11,12; "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side there? (12) And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches(means white...the multitude put on white linen) which throught the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves."

The angel is telling him that the golden candlesticks has been refined gold in the refiners fire in the tribulation.....a candle is to give give light. When Jesus was on the Mt. of Olives.....that is where olives are placed in a vise to make oil.

the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches...........if the stars represent the great Multitude during the tribulation then angels would represent leaders of those seven churches.

angels..........(Strongs Concordence...#2470, 32) means....a pastor.

So, we now have the Multitude and we also see that there are pastors for the group of multitude helping them through the tribulation.

The seven candlesticks............remember in Revelation 1:13 the Lord is standing in the midst of them but in Revelation 11:4; "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." Now......we see only two. The are oils of illumination oil...a light that will show forth in the tribulation.

Luke 12:32-38; "Fear not, little (#3398..least) flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. (33)Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.(35) Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;(36) And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for the Lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, that may open unto him immediately.(37) Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you,, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.(38) And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."

Luke 9:48; "And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great."

Revelation 7:9; "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could numbeer, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches...........if the stars represent the great Multitude during the tribulation then angels would represent leaders of those seven churches.

angels..........(Strongs Concordence...#2470, 32) means....a pastor.

So, we now have the Multitude and we also see that there are pastors for the group of multitude helping them through the tribulation.

And Angel is a messenger. Greek Angelos.

34 ἄγγελος (angelos), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ DBLHebr 4855; Str 32; TDNT 1.74—1. LN 33.195 messenger (Mt 11:10; Mk 1:2; Lk 7:24, 27; 9:52; 2Co 12:7; possibly Rev 2–3); 2. LN 12.28 angel, i.e., a class of being that is a servant of the Lord, and functions as a messenger (Mt 1:20; Lk 1:28 v.r.; 22:43 v.r.)

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

A pastor is a shepherd.
 
V

VRJ

Guest
#57
Very good. Now look up what James Strongs Concordence says and it will tell you...it says pastor in the Greek.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
Very good. Now look up what James Strongs Concordence says and it will tell you...it says pastor in the Greek.
Strongs only says it is a pastor by implication, not literally. No other greek lexicon has pastor as its meaning that I can see. Nor do I see any use of it in the NT where the term "pastor" is used.

Stongs 2470 is the greek word isos, which means similar, agree, equal/ and is not found in rev 1: 20

The word pastor comes from strongs number 4166, poimen (shepherd literally shepherd, pastor Stongs) means shepherd or minister (see eph 4: 11)

4478 ποιμήν (poimēn), ένος (enos), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ DBLHebr 8286; Str 4166; TDNT 6.485—1. LN 44.4 shepherd, the Shepherd (Mk 14:27; Heb 13:20; 1Pe 2:25); 2. LN 53.72 minister, pastor (Eph 4:11+)

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
 
V

VRJ

Guest
#59
Strongs Concordence should be used with the KJV bible only since it has the orginal Textus Receptis. All other versions will use the Alexander greek versions. You need to stay with the KJV only if that is what you are using.

Another thing to remember is this: God is trying to show us his mystery for the end of the age. Do you really want to learn what that mystery is? If that mystery is to reveal that at the end of the age he is to raise up certain people for his work then don't you think it would be time to ask ones self ... am I'm ready to hear it.
I am revealing that mystery from what I have studied over a period of close to fourty years. You can deny it to your own peral or you can ask the Holy Spirit to show you not only this mystery but what else it there that I need to know for the last days. Some will have ears to hear. If it says pastor I am looking to see what is it that they will be showing God's people for these last days.
You need to listen to the Holy Spirit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#60
Strongs Concordence should be used with the KJV bible only since it has the orginal Textus Receptis. All other versions will use the Alexander greek versions. You need to stay with the KJV only if that is what you are using.
That was taken from The KJV greek interlinear. Using strongs numbers, Using Greek lexicons alot more indepth that strongs. Strong is not even really lexicon. It just gives you the basics. Which should never be used to interpret anything. No Greek theologian would use just strongs.

Another thing to remember is this: God is trying to show us his mystery for the end of the age. Do you really want to learn what that mystery is? If that mystery is to reveal that at the end of the age he is to raise up certain people for his work then don't you think it would be time to ask ones self ... am I'm ready to hear it.
Well according to greek text, and your own KJV, it is angels, not pastors which will do this. Sorry If I disagree.

am revealing that mystery from what I have studied over a period of close to fourty years. You can deny it to your own peral or you can ask the Holy Spirit to show you not only this mystery but what else it there that I need to know for the last days. Some will have ears to hear. If it says pastor I am looking to see what is it that they will be showing God's people for these last days.
You need to listen to the Holy Spirit.
I am listening to the Spirit. I am also looking to see how a particular greek word would be translated 2000 years ago. And it would not have been translated pastor. One must ask themselves. If the KJV is so perfect. why did they translate eph 4 pastor. and leave rev angel. unless even they understood the difference.