All You Need to Know About the Prophetic Movement

paulnsilas · Apr 13, 2011

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]This site is unashamedly shilling for the tragedy we see today.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]It's just one example, and not news, but what a disaster.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]........................................................................................[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]All You Need to Know About the Prophetic Movement[/FONT]

If you have watched GOD TV, been to The Call prayer rally, or read a devotional message published at ElijahList.com, there is a good chance you know something about the Prophetic Movement. But considering how young that this blossoming movement still is, there may be a lot that you have not learned. Contrary to popular belief, it is not all about giving respect to modern-day prophets. This new wave of the Spirit is bringing a great deal of fresh understanding to those within the entire Body of Christ.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

A Kingdom Perspective

Within this new stream of Christianity, there are some unique outlooks people have on what it means to practice the Faith. The Prophetic Movement has brought with it an increased value on intercessory prayer, and this is just as important to "prophesiers" as believing for prosperity is to "faith-people." Also, prophetic people tend to focus on achieving a complete change of society rather than merely trying to bring people to the point of salvation. And when prophesiers do partake in evangelistic outreaches they regularly prophesy on the streets, showing nonbelievers that God knows everything about them and that He wants to help them change their lives. The focus of the Prophetic Movement is basically about seeking God's Kingdom to be established on the earth, and demonstrating His power to show what a good King He is.

A Change in Views Concerning the End-Times

Another significant difference in Prophetic Movement teachings and those of the other branches of the Church is in the area of eschatology. Prophesiers tend to have very nontraditional understandings of the rapture, though they do not always agree completely on this doctrine. For instance, Mike Bickle (founder of the International House of Prayer) teaches that the rapture will simply be an event in which God's people make a short ascent into the sky to meet up with Jesus, and then come back down on the Earth to reign with Him. Other prophesiers (such as Kim Clement) will say that they simply seek to put less emphasis on being raptured and more on establishing God's dominion on the Earth, while some (such as Bill Hamon) have avoided using the term "rapture" at all to describe the return of Jesus. Nevertheless, prophetic leaders generally agree that the teaching of the rapture is something that is over-taught and filled with errors in the way it has traditionally been explained.

New Miracles and Revelatory Experiences

With participants often having been in the Laughing Revival that swept the world in the 1980's and 1990's, Prophetic Movement people sometimes do not fit in well with other Charismatic and Pentecostal circles. Prophesiers often like to laugh in the Spirit, partake in “soaking prayer” (where the participant lays still in worship seeking to enter God's rest), and sometimes will jerk or twitch when sensing God's anointing upon them. Such acts are often seen as unscriptural or disorderly by more traditional believers, but they are not the wildest of phenomena prophesiers accept.

Prophetic Movement worship times often include points within the meeting where gold-dust manifest all over the room, where obese people experience instantaneous weight loss, and where someone sings spontaneous words of prophecy to the congregation. It is common as well for someone on stage to paint a picture as directed by God, for someone to speak on a sign they saw from God in nature or daily life, and for prophetic decrees (statements that release some sort of change over a large amount of people) to be spoken over the group. Also, it is not unheard of for someone to start crawling down the aisles barking like a dog, or to perform some other type of demonstrative act known as "ecstatic prophesy." Some less supernatural practices include when worshipers blow on ram's horns, and when congregants rock back in forth like Hasidic Jews while praying in the service.

A New Breed of Revivalists

Still another part of the "download" of prophetic revelations God has been giving are angelic visitations and visions of the Lord Jesus. Several men under the age of forty have been lauched into anointed revival ministries, nearly always as a direct result of such visionairy encounters. "Prophetic revivalists" like Todd Bentley, David Herzog, Joshua Mills, and Matt Sorger are just a few of these young guys, and most of them are in very close relationship. They hold powerful meetings throughout the nations, and at many times gather to minister with one another. Their services are often marked by great miracles, and at times the cloud of God's glory visibly descends upon the attendants.

Prophetic Churches and the Activation of Youth

The revivals are not the only part of the Prophetic Movement where young people are being activated into ministry. Prayer ministries such as The Call and the International House of Prayer target young adults in their recruiting efforts, and several of the most well known prophetic churches are very focused on reaching the younger ages. The Ramp youth ministry that Karen Wheaten preaches at (Hamilton, AL), Bethel Church where Bill Johnson pastors (Redding, CA), and Morningstar Fellowship where Rick Joyner pastors (Fort Mills, SC) are all leading the way in training teenagers to walk in the power and holiness of God. Such ministries are inspiring young men and women by the hundreds to pray and fast, to work signs and wonders on the streets, and to live by a standard of righteousness that is rare amongst even adults.

Singing a New Song

Another fresh aspect of the Prophetic Movement is the new array of lyrics prophetic musicians have brought forth. Psalmists like Misty Edwards, Rick Pino, and Jason Upton are expressing the heart of the Prophetic Movement through music, turning prophesies into songs and singing in a new style that distinctly sounds like battle music. Just as in past Christian movements, God is releasing a new level of creativity to His people and they are obeying the command of Psalm 33:3, "Sing unto Him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise."

The Background of the Movement

The roots of the Prophetic Movement can be traced back to the Latter Rain Revival of the 1940's and 1950's, when people began to realize that the office of the prophet still needed recognition within the Church. Yet many prophesiers can more directly trace their origins to the group unofficially called “the Kansas City Prophets." This small team included now famous ministers such as John Paul Jackson (who trains people to practice dream interpretation), Francis Frangipane (an author and televangelist), Bob Jones (a "seer" prophet who regularly has visions), and James Goll (another seer prophet and well known author). These men banded together to encourage each other in their unusual beliefs, and are now training millions of people to hear the voice of God. And since the International House of Prayer was established in Kansas City in 1999, it has served as a "Mecca" of sorts for prophetic and intercessory worshipers from around the world.

The Prophetic Movement also has strong ties with what has been termed the “Third Wave of the Spirit.” This was a period during the 1970's and 1980's when many conservative evangelicals began to accept the baptism of the Holy Spirit and His gifts. Possibly the two most influential leaders of the “Third Wave” were John Wimber and Charles Peter Wagner, and each have had a significant influence on people leading the current Prophetic Movement. John Wimber founded the Vineyard association that Mike Bickle's church was apart of, and before dying Wimber knew the Kansas City Prophets (who all met there) rather well. Charles Peter Wagner became influential after helping Wimber to create a course to be taught at Fuller Theological Seminary, and has since published books that are widely circulated throughout prophetic circles. Wagner is considered one of the foremost apostolic fathers in the Church today by prophets like Bill Hamon and Cindy Jacobs, and is close friends with these leaders.

Conclusion

Though the Prophetic Movement brings with it numerous changes in the way church is being conducted, it is in fact primarily about bringing respect to the office of the prophet. But just as with the restoration of other types of clergy, the return of this office is helping to equip the saints in a greater way for the work of ministry (Eph. 4:12). The Evangelical Movement gave Christians a new zeal for evangelism, the mega-church “movement” led people to give greater authority to their pastors, and God has used faith-teachers to make it common for people who are not in seminary to listen to in-depth Bible-teachings. In the same way the Prophetic Movement is helping bring a new level of understanding to God's people, so that they will begin to acknowledge Him in all things, that He may direct their paths (Prov. 3:6).

All You Need to Know About the Prophetic Movement

[/FONT]

paulnsilas · Apr 13, 2011

[SIZE=-1]General apologetics articles on the Third Wave "river". [/SIZE]

(3)Can You Identify A Cult? by Norman Olson, 1989
"We also need to be familiar with, and to familiarize others with, the basic marks of a cult. What are some of the ways we can identify false religions?" ... Some of the ways to identify a cult are to "watch for their attitude toward the Word of God ... see what they believe concerning salvation ... determine what they believe about assurance of salvation ... watch to see if they elevate a certain person or that person's words to a level in the direction of the God-like ... watch for doctrinal vagueness or inconsistency ... be aware of a tendency to claim new discoveries, especially from the Scriptures."

(4)Is It Scriptural? by A College Professor, 1997
An unnamed college professor, who seems to be coming from a Pentacostal/Charismatic perspective, lays down sixteen questions to ask when questioning whether a movement or revival is really from God. Although we disagree with his position that there is some justification from Scripture for "slain in the spirit", we do agree with him that "being slain in the Spirit is certainly not normative for a Christian, and it is impossible to prove from Scripture that it is even normal. Thus it cannot be seen as a mark of spirituality." The rest of the points of this article are very helpful.

(5)Where Is the Charismatic Movement Headed? by M.H. Reynolds, Jr, 1996
"Believers would be shocked if they only knew the whole story of conspiracy, intrigue, hypocrisy, selfishness, greed and deception on the part of charismatic and new-evangelical leaders which, in some cases, has been going on for years. Yet, all the while, these leaders were putting on a false front of spirituality to deceive the increasing millions of people who hung upon their every word as they appeared on television, spoke on radio broadcasts and at huge rallies, and indoctrinated their deluded followers by numerous seminars, videos, tapes and books." From a conservative fundamentalist perspective, but it does raise some very good questions.

(6)Where Are They Now?: A Televangelist Update by Perucci Ferraiuolo and Paul Carden, 1994
"Slick. Hypocritical. Greedy. Power-hungry. Flamboyant. Sleazy. Materialistic. To millions of skeptical viewers, such words define the video preachers known collectively as televangelists. And while many responsible, credible evangelical ministers use the airwaves with the best of motives, in the minds of scandal-weary, cynical audiences they're the ringmasters of electronic religion, predators -- possibly perverts -- in three-piece suits." An old update but it shows where people end up who are not truly following God.

(8)Weighed And Found Wanting by Pastor Bill Randles, 1995
"The current "renewal" or "revival" that is being promoted by people like Rodney Howard Browne, the Toronto Airport Vineyard, and others, actually has the potential of taking people's eyes off of the God of the Bible and turning them to sensual manifestations and mystical experiences. Unless some leadership is offered and discernment is applied, I predict that many of God's people will be hurt, disillusioned and even made shipwreck of their faith, as a result of this "Mystical Revival." From a Pentacostal perspective. This is an excellent online book.

(9) Unbiblical Doctrines, Teachings and Phenomena of the Third Wave Counterfeit Revival Movement compiled by Sandy Simpson, 1997
A document compiled from a few sources to give Christians a resource to cut through the issues involved in the "counterfeit" revival. This paper includes a short list of unbiblical doctrines, teachings and phenomena observed and documented in the Toronto "Blessing"/Pensocola "Outpouring" movement. Please refer to the document called "Influence Links Of The Third Wave Movement" for a more comprehensive list of the heretical doctrines of the Third Wave.

This paper also features guiding principles on how to determine unbiblical doctrines, whether or not we are to test and judge as Christians, and practical guidelines on how to counsel people who have had emotional, physical and spiritual damage from this movement or have been demonized as a result of being "slain in the spirit" or at the "laying on of hands".

(10)A Coming New Pentecost an exerpt from "America - The Sorcerer's New Apprentice, The Rise Of New Age Shamanism, p. 66-67 by Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon, 1988.
Check out this quote from New Age author Brad Steiger.

Apologetics - Third Wave

...................................................

Obviously these articles are dated...that's the point.
This has been going on for a long time.

there is an agenda here that isn't even touched on by any of these old articles.

It's headed in a specific direction.

....................................................

it is critical to know what the THE THIRD WAVE is.

shroom2 · Apr 13, 2011

The gift ministries, and the manifestations of holy spirit, have not ceased. "When that which is perfect is come" has not happened yet.

But we must be wary, and not believe everything someone says just because he thinks he's a prophet.

God bless.

VRJ · Apr 18, 2011

Thank-you, you are very well informed and many need to understand what is taking place today in these churches. This is not coming from the Holy Spirit in these churches...Revelation 9:1...it's from the bottomless pit and it's a different kind of spirit...some call it the kundalini spirit...akin to voodoo.

VW · Apr 18, 2011

VRJ said:

Unfortunately, you are correct, and these have and will continue to mislead many. But what we must not do is discount all spiritual things, because as these continue in their error, God will call others to walk in His gifts and offices. As the prophet of old heard from the angel, there will be those who know their God, and they will gain strength and take action. And those who have insight will lead the many to righteousness.

zone · Apr 19, 2011

VW said:

Unfortunately, you are correct, and these have and will continue to mislead many. But what we must not do is discount all spiritual things, because as these continue in their error, God will call others to walk in His gifts and offices. As the prophet of old heard from the angel, there will be those who know their God, and they will gain strength and take action. And those who have insight will lead the many to righteousness.

this sums up your belief quite well.

now prove it by The Word.

VW · Apr 19, 2011

zone said:

I believe that you will find the proof in Daniel.

pickles · Apr 19, 2011

It is obvious that satan always works harder to destroy that which is God Our Fathers gift.
May we always look to Jesus for his armor and protection!
God bless.
pickles

VRJ · Apr 19, 2011

I will say this:

In the last days Satan will pull out all the tricks he can muster. His evil side will rise up like no one will ever see before. Even hard core christians are not prepared for this onslout of deception. They are still children drinking warm milk.

God's army will be slaughterd because they have not risen to this last day challenge of deception. They will go along with Satan's deception till they realize it will be too late...they were riding the Beast and never knew it. This is the great Multitude that will have their robes washed of wrong thinking in Rev.

If God is rising up his army....we better take notice....be decerning enough to see who they are. God is not alseep as some think and Satan would like God's army to remain alseep for the last days deception.

Amos 3:7; "Surely, the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (6) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? God wants us today to have this "new wine" of understanding for the days ahead to what is about to occur. Luke 5:36-39 We may not have heard this trumpet but I believe Revelation has opened it's doors of understanding.

Red33 · Apr 19, 2011

VW said:

This is an illustration of VW.

Jesus says, Go and preach the gospel, but VW says, God will bring them to me. God says who will go for us, but VW says I have the Spirit and I hear the voice of God. So God says go into all the word and make disciples of all men, but VW says, God will bring them to me. Just how many has God brought to you anyways all these years? Jesus said that when the Spirit came upon them (the disciples), that they would be witnesses everywhere (Acts 1:8). But VW says, but I am a prophet and I get to prophesy against the church and let them know of all the danger they are in. But God keeps telling VW, you must take up your cross and go if you want to be my disciple and tell others to go so that they can be my disciples.

VW, I want you to listen very carefully. I got this from the Lord and it came from the written word inspired by the Holy Spirit. You are to go and preach the gospel in all the word to every creature and if you do not go then you are not obeying the voice of God that commands you to go because you are not your own and have been bought with a price. I can't tell you what to do but God can through the Holy Spirit that inspired every word of God. The Bible tells you to submit yourselves to one another (Eph 5:21, 1Pt 5:5) in the fear of God. What do you think of that?

superdave5221 · Apr 19, 2011

VRJ said:

This verse is from the O.T. and is revelant to those times in history only. To use this verse as proof of prophetic gifts today is very poor exegesis.

The following would be more revelant for today:

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

superdave5221 · Apr 19, 2011

The following is from The Book of Romans, by Jim McGuiggan, Montex Publishing Co., Lubbock TX, 1982, pp. 55-56. Highlighting is mine.

All that Paul is and does is for the name of Christ. That is, it is for Christ. "For Christ" is the phrase that sums up Paul's life best. And that name, Jesus Christ, is the name at which every knee will bow and it is that name which every tongue will confess. It is a name which will never be forgottten. It is the only name under heaven and given among men whereby we can be saved (Acts 4:12). It is the name which the Holy Spirit leads men to confess as Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3). The Holy Spirit never leads people to continually talk about him (the Spirit) nor does he lead people to continually talk about their experiences. It was Jesus himself who said the Spirit would "not speak of himself, but whatsoever things he heareth that shall he speak. He shall take of mine and declare it unto you..." (John 16:13ff). There is something wrong with a movement that makes the Spirit the center of everything when the Spirit (as the Bible clearly reveals) makes Jesus the center of everything. There is something wrong with a movement which makes the experiences of the believer the center when in the New Testament those who are moved by the Spirit make the experience of Jesus the center of everything.

I really think that it is a shame that those claiming spiritual gifts talk so much about their alleged prophetic abilities, and so little time talking about Jesus. Why is that? Is it pride?

I have noticed that many of the same people, (not all) tend to look down on Bible study, as they supposedly have a more direct channel to the Truth. I have to wonder if the reason for this is that the bible, (which everyone can read), takes the spotlight off of them and their alleged abilities, and puts it on Christ, where it belongs. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of the Pharisees who had to sit in the front rows in the synagogues, as a sign of their rank and importance. Jesus said that the least would be first. Has that slipped by without you noticing.

I have to also wonder how these people can believe that Christ, who has been given "all authority" by God, needs prophets, as well as Holy Spirit to administer His kingdom? Every single Christian out there has Holy Spirit, as well as God's word, to guide them, but some of us need prophets as well it seems.

Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit is all that I need to know God. In my opinion, only those who are lacking in the Holy Spirit, or are remiss in their knowledge and walk with Christ, are in need of prophets. I hope you find one, for I have yet to see one in this site.

giantone · Apr 19, 2011

I once went to a mega church 60 miles away, but one time for some reason instead of going there I wound up at a different church that was very near the mega church, It was a church of about 50 people and this church was very into the prophet movement, it was an interesting experience, after the the church service I looked at there bulletin board and on it had advertisements for the different prophets who would be showing up at various churches at different dates. none of the names were familiar to me and someone looked shocked like thinking where has this guy been that he doesn't know these famous prophets? I know how others feel when I used to talk about famous Christian singers like Petra or Rebeca St. James and they had no idea who they were.

The only person with prophetic ability that I knew wasn't on there list and they didn't know the name either and it seemed like we were in two different worlds.

Theres a movement that has been going on by atheists and agnostics to get a church of there own, but this church consists of mega churches of different denominations where they control the Christians. They even have a place in Kansas where famous prophets and Christian leaders can stay with prostitutes that know the Bible so that they feel more at ease in there stay. Lots of things are going on all over the place right under our noses.

zone · Apr 19, 2011

VW said:

you will need to expand a little vw: you have made a definitive statement about what The Lord will do.

you have stated unequivocally, and as proof of your credentials and beliefs, that some (most?)christians will be led into error because they do not know The Lord since they haven't entered in behind the veil, that He will "call others to walk in His gifts and offices".

i need to see where this is clearly said by God in The Word.

are these gifts and offices prophetic/apostolic?

zone · Apr 19, 2011

VRJ said:

VRJ:
where in the New Testament is God said to be raising up an army?

and what is this "new wine" of understanding?

Matthew 9:17
Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

this is referring to the complete end of The Mosaic and Temple system, The Old Covenant, since the NEW and Better Covenant has come.

is there a specific biblical reference to "new wine of understanding"?

zone · Apr 19, 2011

superdave5221 said:

The following is from The Book of Romans, by Jim McGuiggan, Montex Publishing Co., Lubbock TX, 1982, pp. 55-56. Highlighting is mine.

All that Paul is and does is for the name of Christ. That is, it is for Christ. "For Christ" is the phrase that sums up Paul's life best. And that name, Jesus Christ, is the name at which every knee will bow and it is that name which every tongue will confess. It is a name which will never be forgottten. It is the only name under heaven and given among men whereby we can be saved (Acts 4:12). It is the name which the Holy Spirit leads men to confess as Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3). The Holy Spirit never leads people to continually talk about him (the Spirit) nor does he lead people to continually talk about their experiences. It was Jesus himself who said the Spirit would "not speak of himself, but whatsoever things he heareth that shall he speak. He shall take of mine and declare it unto you..." (John 16:13ff). There is something wrong with a movement that makes the Spirit the center of everything when the Spirit (as the Bible clearly reveals) makes Jesus the center of everything. There is something wrong with a movement which makes the experiences of the believer the center when in the New Testament those who are moved by the Spirit make the experience of Jesus the center of everything.

I really think that it is a shame that those claiming spiritual gifts talk so much about their alleged prophetic abilities, and so little time talking about Jesus. Why is that? Is it pride?

I have noticed that many of the same people, (not all) tend to look down on Bible study, as they supposedly have a more direct channel to the Truth. I have to wonder if the reason for this is that the bible, (which everyone can read), takes the spotlight off of them and their alleged abilities, and puts it on Christ, where it belongs. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of the Pharisees who had to sit in the front rows in the synagogues, as a sign of their rank and importance. Jesus said that the least would be first. Has that slipped by without you noticing.

I have to also wonder how these people can believe that Christ, who has been given "all authority" by God, needs prophets, as well as Holy Spirit to administer His kingdom? Every single Christian out there has Holy Spirit, as well as God's word, to guide them, but some of us need prophets as well it seems.

Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit is all that I need to know God. In my opinion, only those who are lacking in the Holy Spirit, or are remiss in their knowledge and walk with Christ, are in need of prophets. I hope you find one, for I have yet to see one in this site.

this is truth.
and thank you for this resource:

The following is from The Book of Romans, by Jim McGuiggan, Montex Publishing Co., Lubbock TX, 1982, pp. 55-56. Highlighting is mine.

i'll be looking it over.

here's another along the same lines: a look at Hinn's Good Morning Holy Spirit.
the reviewer is very generous i would say, but the subject is covered at length.
notice the usual suspects.

An Examination and Critique of Benny Hinn's "Good Morning, Holy Spirit"

zone · Apr 19, 2011

giantone said:

interesting giant.

i wonder if it's related to these guys:

The Kansas City Prophets
[SIZE=+0]Excerpted from "Heaven Can't Wait" by William M. Alnor, 1996[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]If (Hank) Hanegraaff and other critics are correct, perhaps it was the Vineyard's flirting with the inner healing movement that led them to this point. Perhaps it was the Kansas City prophets it absorbed in the late 1980s that took them this far. Or more likely it was a combination of many things, along with (John) Wimber's experience-oriented theology, that brought them to where they are today.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]One thing is for sure: Each phase they went through prepared them to receive more supernatural experiences. First, inner healing teacher John Sandford (who has claimed a number of visionary and mystical experiences) began bringing his seminars to a number of Vineyard churches worldwide. You might remember Sandford from chapter 1 where he claimed he wrestled with a demon and a dead woman. Later it was a group of men known as the Kansas City prophets who brought grandiose claims that a "new breed" of super prophets were beginning to arrive on planet earth who would change the world forever.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]These so-called prophets were a group of men that coalesced around a church known as the Kansas City Fellowship, pastored by Mike Bickle, that attracted a following of other likeminded churches in that region. They argued that God was spearheading a new revival from their churches, and that he was restoring the office of prophet. Just as other "prophets" we discussed in these pages, yesterday's Kansas City stock could have it both ways. They could hear from God, and speak forth God's words, prophesying of great events soon to transpire on planet earth. And they could have flipped a coin as to whether what God allegedly told them would actually come true. Often they didn't come true.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Some of the main prophets and/or leaders in the movement included Paul Cain, Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, John Paul Jackson, Francis Frangipane, and others. Bob Jones (no relation to Bob Jones of Bob Jones University in South Carolina) was the visionary of the bunch. He was said to have been especially anointed with supernatural visions from the Lord and a prophetic gift. However, he was quoted as saying that the general level of prophetic revelation in the movement's "prophets" had an accuracy level of about 65 percent. Some prophets were as low as 10 percent accurate, he said, with some of the "most mature" prophets having a rating "approaching 85 percent to 95 percent. "25[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Similarly, the lack of accuracy in speaking for God didn't bother Wimber, either. Wimber soon became close to Cain and Bickle, and when the Kansas City Fellowship came under fire, Wimber saved them from even more criticism by absorbing the Kansas City Fellowship under the new name of the Metro Vineyard Fellowship. "Prophecy's first expressions will likely be infantile," wrote Wimber in the Vineyard's fall 1989 Equipping the Saints magazine that was devoted to embracing the prophetic movement. "Babies are messy and they make messes ."26[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Heaven: Kansas City Style[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]Aside from strange prophecies and visions, the Kansas City prophets reported visits to the supernatural realms, including heaven. In a series of five hour-long tapes entitled Visions and Revelations, Mike Bickle and Bob Jones are heard wowing followers of the Kansas City Fellowship with all sorts of tales of their unverified experiences in the next plane.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Bob Jones claims that when he was nine years old living in Arkansas, an angel carrying a "great trumpet" came riding down from the sky on a white horse and stopped before him in the middle of a dirt road. He didn't know what to make of it until he was thirteen, when he was escorted to the very throne room of God in heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]You say that you saw the throne room?" Bickle asked him in the dialogue. ". . . what did it look like?"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]"It looked like gold and it looked like light and itwas a light not like the light you see here which is artificial," he responded, adding that the light, the glory of the Lord, frightened him. Well, a "guide," which he identified as "the angel of the Lord ' " protected him from danger by standing between him and the throne by filtering the rays from God as if the angel was "like red sunglasses."" He said he later understood that this was God's way of calling and commissioning him for their new important earth-changing work that could go out from America's Midwest. Many years later, in August 1975, Bob Jones claims he had a near-death experience that was caused by a severe, painful nosebleed. He was whisked into heaven. Jones said: "... all of a sudden, the pain was gone. And I was in a dark place and I looked around and I could see that I was in a cave and I looked down there and then my thoughts were, "Oh, Lord, did I get my robe clean? Did I have enough time?" And there was a man that walked beside me and he said, "You can look now, Bob, and see" and I looked down and my robe was like crystal light." 28[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]He then saw Jesus in the form of a light who would grab and kiss" men and women of different ages and then make them disappear by absorbing them into his body! "It was like two big ole doors right here in his heart and it'd be just that, and they was gone," Jones said. "They was in his heart He then saw people that Jesus didn't want who were on "an elevator and an escalator" to hell which was like "a cold storage place." Jesus then commissioned him to touch the leaders in a new last days church so that he could absorb "a billion souls unto myself in the last day," Jones said. 29[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]A short time later God "came and took me out of the body," and he descended into hell. It was "one of the most dreary, dreadful places I've ever been," Jones said. "It was like a place like a void, it had no top, bottom or nothing you could see-it was like black auto smoke and we went deeper and deeper into the depths." 30[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Mike Bickle's Visions[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]In the same tape series, Bickle and Jones relate the story of an angel revealing that God would appear to Bickle in the form of another person named "Don" in a vision or in a dream. Bickle said the vision eventually took place, and part of its message was to show him that "Jesus appears in thousands of different faces to portray something," Bickle said. "He was trying to say, 'I'm your friend, I am your familiar friend and I'm going to show you all things so you can move in the power of the Spirit'". 31[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Later Bickle relates that during his trip to heaven Jesus commissioned him to be one of God's new generals to lead his end time army. Although Bickle claims he met with "the Lord" face-to-face, it was an out-of-body experience. It was 2:16 A.M. he said, and in a flash he was there, but it wasn't the cave where Jones earlier related he had been. Instead he was standing in a 20-by 30-foot room that "had clouds on the bottom, on the top and the walls". It was the courtroom of God. God was in the room, Bickle said, but rather than appearing as a being of light, he was a presence that Bickle wouldn't look at.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]God rebuked him for not being patient enough in choosing leaders for his movement. Later the being ordered Bickle to ride in a golden chariot-one of about thirty-five-in a procession of leaders, apostles, and prophets, who would be joining the movement that would someday be worldwide. Bickle said that during the trip God did not commission him as an apostle. But he said he understood the experience to mean that if he was faithful he would "have an opportunity in the grace of God to fill an apostolic calling." 32[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]What Are We to Make of These Visions?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Fortunately, the Kansas City prophets movement did not pass the test of time. Far from remaining a center-piece of Wimber's movement as was trumpeted in Vineyard publications not so long ago, this "new breed" of men that was going to help lead them have, by and large, fallen out of favor. Cain, who is no longer integrally associated with the Vineyards, has been soundly criticized for some of his pronouncements; even CharismaMagazine associate editor J. Lee Grady pointed out a few of his false prophecies in his book, "What Happened to the Fire?" More recently Cain unleashed a storm of controversy from within the Christian community when he released a supposed word from the Lord that President Bill Clinton, who has fought hard to keep abortion legal and whose first week in office saw him lobby hard to allow homosexuals to serve in the U.S. military, was God's man for the hour. He claimed God was going to give Clinton the power of the Holy Spirit to lead America away from a New World order.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Testing Doctrines[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]The fact of the matter is that Cain and other so-called Kansas City prophets should have never been placed into an area of Christian leadership in the first place. Cain (who has also claimed trips to heaven) has a questionable testimony, has demonstrated a lengthy absence of Christian service in his life, and he has called the late William Branham, with whom he once had an association, "the greatest prophet who ever lived." Branham, however, denied the historic doctrine of the Trinity (even claiming it comes from the devil), and taught extensive error, including the he that the zodiac and Egyptian pyramids are on par with the authority of Scripture. 34 Branham taught what has now become known as the "Serpent Seed" doctrine that is popular with various neo-Nazi and "Christian" identity cults -- that the Bible's Cain was produced through a sexual coupling between the serpent in the Garden of Eden and Eve. 35[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Bickle has been linked to the heretical Latter Pain and Manifest Sons of God doctrine that falsely elevates man into a god class. This also should disqualify him and his Kansas City movement from leading any Christian group in the future. In part 2 of Bickle's undated tape The Glory and Dominion of Sonship, he moves into blasphemy by declaring:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]My conviction is that one of the greatest transformations is when you begin to get the revelation that you are a Son of God. Son of God ... God has conceived in His heart of a plan to make a race of men that would live like gods on the Earth. He has conceived in His heart to have Sons that would live like His Son, the Lord Jesus lived ... That we were to be on earth the extension and manifestation of God's life in heaven. 36[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Although some voices have come forward objecting to critics' labeling some of the Kansas City prophets movement as promoting cultic doctrines, they don't have a case. Personal Freedom Outreach's Steve Cannon writes that "Bickle clearly uses unscriptural terminology and logic to teach Manifest Sons doctrine." 37 Despite this, Bickle is still popular in charismatic circles thanks to appearances on the Trinity Broadcasting Network and other charismatic media outlets.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Bob Jones, however, who not so long ago was regarded as the most powerful of the Kansas City crowd is out of ministry. First when Wimber's Vineyard absorbed the Kansas City Fellowship, Jones and another "prophet" were disciplined for making some outlandish statements and prophecies that were judged to have harmed some, and their prophecy tapes were removed from distribution. Jones's ministry was then limited to church leadership "behind closed doors." 31[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]But it was behind those doors where Jones's ministry ended. Two women came forward in 1991 and told Vineyard leaders that Jones had used his prophetic authority to touch and fondle them sexually. 39 Jones admitted it and was removed from ministry. "In recent months, I have manipulated certain people for selfish reasons on the basis of my prophetic gifting," Jones said in a statement that he dictated and signed before the Metro Vineyard Fellowship senior leadership on November 4, 1991. "I have been guilty of sexual misconduct, and I deeply regret this. (I have not committed adultery.) " 40[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Many of Jones's and other Kansas City prophets' outlandish teachings and occultic-like practices andprophecies were documented in a dizzying 233-page report compiled by former charismatic pastor Ernie Gruen. Although Gruen later acknowledged that there were some minor inaccuracies in his report, it successfully exposed specifics of what he called the "charismatic heresy" of the Kansas City prophetic movement. Dates, times, and specific incidents of error (that sometimes caused great damage) and outright lies in the name of prophetic utterances were documented by Gruen's staff, implicating Bickle, Jones, and Jackson. I believe Gruen's work proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Kansas City prophets were false ones. We can therefore postulate that God has not spoken to any of these men.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]God had some strict pronouncements against the false prophetic movement of Jeremiah's day: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes," God spoke through the prophet. "They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD" (23:16). A handful of verses later God calls them lying prophets, "who steal from one another words supposedly from me" (v. 30). They are leading people astray.[/SIZE]

The Kansas City Prophets

zone · Apr 19, 2011

Apostolic-Prophetic Movement

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Kansas City Prophets)

The Apostolic-Prophetic Movement in Charismatic Christianity is seen by its participants as a restoration of the neglected elements of the Five-Fold Ministry described in the New Testament book of Ephesians, "some apostles, and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ". This movement is rooted in the Third Wave Charismatic or Pentecostal experience.
This movement is Primitivist, in that it defers more to the authority of original documents and doctrines than to the later developments and elaborations transmitted by the authorities of the Catholic and Orthodox churches. It may also be associated with primitivism inasmuch as outsiders interpret prophetic interpretation. Prophecy has been a part of Pentecostal and Charismatic Christian practice, more notably during times of revival in the Body of Christ; for example the Kimbanguist Church in Belgian Congo began with vigor in the 1920s and flourished through 40 years of rigorous, often violent, suppression.

Apostolic-Prophetic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

zone · Apr 19, 2011

Third Wave of the Holy Spirit

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit is a Christian theological theory first introduced by C. Peter Wagner to describe what he believed to be three historical periods of the activity of the Holy Spirit in the 20th century and beyond. In his 1988 book, The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit: Encountering the Power of Signs and Wonders Today, Wagner defines the three waves as follows:

The first wave at the beginning of the twentieth century with the rise of the Pentecostal movement, beginning with the Azusa Street Revival;
A second wave during the 1960s as the Charismatic movement spread throughout some Protestant denominations, as well as the Roman Catholic Church; and
A third wave during the mid 1980s.[1]

Third Wave of the Holy Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

phil36 · Apr 19, 2011

Thanks for the imformation Zone, very informative, of the false teaching that goes on.

Phil

All You Need to Know About the Prophetic Movement

paulnsilas

Guest

paulnsilas

Guest

Banned

VRJ

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

VRJ

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

giantone

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member