Rebuking The Nicene Creed

[Baruch]

May the Lord open the eyes and the ears regarding this error:

Quote of the contention from the Nicene Creed

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Is the Holy Spirit really the giver of life?

John 6:32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Is the Holy Spirit really to be worshipped and glorified?

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

No mentioning of the Holy Spirit even though He is God. And yet, the specific commandment in how we shall be judged by is that the only way to honour the Father is through the Son.

John 13:31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

No mentioning of the Holy Spirit again as God the Father is straightway glorified through the Son.

Again, confirmation elsewhere in the scriptures...

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Why isn't the Holy Spirit to be mentioned in honour, worship, and glory? The Holy Spirit was not sent for that to be done towards.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

If He will not speak of himself, but to testify of Jesus Christ to glorify the Son, then He will not lead us to worship nor glorify Himself either, bit other spirits will.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is God, but scriptures are in agreement as to what He was sent to do. Heed the commandment in His invitation in regards to coming to the Father in worship, and note the point of His relationship with the Father that by knowing the Son, we shall know the Father.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Philippians 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those that hear.. discern how those that chase after the Holy Spirit would judge those that follow not after them as a dead church, bearing false witness of the Gospel.

John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Jesus is the bread of life that God giveth life to the world as Jesus is the Life.

John 6:62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

So it is by believing in Jesus, we have life in His name.

John 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So believers that "fall" for the movement of the spirit by chasing after the "Spirit of God" should stop what they are doing, pause, and discern in regards to our faith of all of its little leavens that they say and do in those errors of anything that would share the spotlight on Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit by blurring the roles and the offices given specifically to the Son that is to His glory. That includes all churches of the faith that places the Holy Spirit to be worshipped and glorified with the Son in songs & deeds.

Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[MahogonySnail]

You not only knock tongue-speakers and anyone who believes in a subsequent baptism of the Spirit, you also knock the Nicene creed! Gosh brother you have a few issues. Yes of course the Spirit gives life if you don't have the Spirit you dont' have life!!!

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Chew on that, big shot.

 

[1still_waters]

Are you doing a documentary movie as a angry christian message board chatter kind of like the movie Borat, just to see how your 'personality' gets reacted to in a Christian context?

Cuz seriously, some of these heresy huntin posts leave me wondering sometimes.

John 3 KJV

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[eric51]

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God....
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ who thru the Eternal Spirit...

Nicene Creed was specifically formulated by the Early Church to TEACH about the nature of God. If you ignore it, you remove yourself from the historical Christian Tradition.

Enough said.

God Bless You

 

[MahogonySnail]

•“To say that we cannot pray to the Holy Spirit is really saying that we cannot talk to Him or relate to Him personally, which hardly seems right. He also relates to us in a personal way…” --Grudem




To God the Holy Spirit Let Us Pray
To God the Holy Spirit let us pray
Most of all for faith upon our way
That He may defend us when life is ending
And from exile home we are wending.
Lord, have mercy!
O sweetest Love, Your grace on us bestow;
Set our hearts with sacred fire aglow
That with hearts united we love each other,
Every stranger, sister, and brother.
Lord, have mercy!
Transcendent Comfort in our every need,
Help us neither scorn nor death to heed
That we may not falter nor courage fail us
When the foe shall taunt and assail us.
Lord, have mercy!
Shine in our hearts, O Spirit, precious light;
Teach us Jesus Christ to know aright
That we may abide in the Lord who bought us,
Till to our true home He has brought us.
Lord, have mercy!

Martin Luther, 1483-1546

​

Those that hear.. discern how those that chase after the Holy Spirit would judge those that follow not after them as a dead church, bearing false witness of the Gospel.

Anyone who says the Spirit cannot be worshipped despite Him being God, or doubts that the Spirit who is God gives life must be off track. Dead church ? Yes there are plenty, there is no joy, there is no praise, they are really bad places to be in. Most of them reject the Spirit and His power and gifts. Reject or quench the Spirit of life and there is no life, it's that simple. Even though they keep fooling themselves and reassuring themselves that they are alive through their wisdom of man and doctrines, despite their fruit showing contrary.

So it is by believing in Jesus, we have life in His name.

John 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

And yet the flesh profits nothing,
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

 

[1still_waters]

1 Corinthians 13

14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

 

[roaringkitten]

The Nicene Creed supports catholicism, and catholicism is not Biblical, but a false religion than many Christians need to be exposing and warning others about it. If people add anything to faith in Christ(ie:sacraments) to be saved they will end up in the lake of fire for eternity! Not saying this to hate catholics, but to warn them because I care!

 

[eric51]

Justification is only achieved by faith and works. Heb 11:8. Eph 2:8-9, Paul teaches that faith excludes "works of the law". But not other kinds of works, such as works that flow from grace. 2 Cor 10:15, Faith is achieved by obedience, by doing good works. Gal 5:6, The faith that justifies us is faith working thru love. James 2:17, faith without works is dead.

You need to open yourself to a broader perspective. Indoctrinating yourself in an esoteric, non-christian philosophy only causes you to read into scripture only what you want to hear. You in effect have closed yourself off from Christianity.

God Bless.

 

[suaso]

"We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church."

Interesting note: the part I bolded is called the filioque (Latin for: "and the Son"). It was added to the Nicene Creed after 325 AD at the Council of Constantinople in 381 to further combat Arianism and similar groups. Arians believed that Jesus was a creature not equal to God, wheras orthodox Christianity holds that Jesus is God. To say the Holy Spirit (Also God) proceeds from the Father and the Son sets Jesus as equal to God (Because he is God). So, in actuality, the creed from which this line comes from is called the Nicene-Constantinopolitain Creed, not the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed omits the filioque.

Nicene Creed of 325 AD:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father.
By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];
Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;
He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.
[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]

Nicene-Constantinopolitain Creed of 381:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
In one holy catholic and apostolic church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

And, it should be noted again, that the "one holy catholic and apostolic church" refers to the marks of the church. One meaning the church is whole and undivided. Holy meaning the church itself is holy. Catholic meaning the church itself is universal, this isn't the same as "Big C" Catholic...its a translation of the Greek word for "universal," katholikos. Apostolic meaning it can trace its beliefs to the beliefs of the apostles and its has apostolic succession.

The modifications to the creed were made in response to several contemporary heresies at the time.
Filioque: combats Arianism
"[Jesus was born] Of the Virgin Mary": combats Nestorianism (which said Jesus was not fully human).

Just some interesting tidbits from a geek.

 

[Baruch]

You not only knock tongue-speakers and anyone who believes in a subsequent baptism of the Spirit, you also knock the Nicene creed! Gosh brother you have a few issues. Yes of course the Spirit gives life if you don't have the Spirit you dont' have life!!!

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Chew on that, big shot.

Then explain why the Spirit is capitalized in verse 3, but not so in verses 6.

2 Corinthians 3: 3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Not trying to be argumentative, but you really did just snatched that verse up without considering the ramification of "spirit" in relation to the letter of the law in verse 6.
Seek another verse.

 

[Baruch]

Are you doing a documentary movie as a angry christian message board chatter kind of like the movie Borat, just to see how your 'personality' gets reacted to in a Christian context?

Cuz seriously, some of these heresy huntin posts leave me wondering sometimes.

John 3 KJV

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Nope.

I can see why you chose that verse, but Who baptizes us with the Holy Spirit? The whole point of the OP is not to blur the lines of what is accreditted to the Son by giving that same description to the Holy Spirit. I sincerely hope somebody will speak up if they say that the Holy Spirit was crucified on the cross.

Perhaps a look at the list of the errors of the Oneness Pentcostal will get my concern across in making a point of this for our faith.

http://absolutedominion.blogspot.com/2008/01/exposing-error-oneness-pentecostalism.html

 

[Baruch]

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God....
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ who thru the Eternal Spirit...

Nicene Creed was specifically formulated by the Early Church to TEACH about the nature of God. If you ignore it, you remove yourself from the historical Christian Tradition.

Enough said.

God Bless You

I believe in the Holy Spirit is God, but I also believe that since the Holy Spirit was sent to not speak of himself but to testify and to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-15), then giving the title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit when scriptures testifies of that being given to the Son... then one is not being led by the Spirit in them to say that; it is of man.

Everyone can make excuses to worship the Holy Spirit, but it is not scriptural and what the Holy Spirit in us leads us to do is to go to God the Father in worship through God the Son so that we may worship Him IN spirit and IN truth... not out of the Spirit and apart from the Truth.

For our witness and worship, the Holy Spirit cannot be in the worship place to be worshipped like He was at the Temple in Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

We are to be witnesses of Jesus Christ as His name is above every other name. ( John 15:26-27 & Philippians 2:9-11)

 

[suaso]

Ok...

The Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus the Son is God.
The Father is God.

These three persons make up the Trinity: the Trinity is God.
If you worship God the Father, you are worshiping God. If you Worship Jesus the Son of God, you are worshiping God. If you worship the Holy Spirit, you are still worshipping God.

It is true, that salvation comes through Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is himself God. It was the redemptive act of Jesus taking on human flesh and nature (the Incarnation) and sacrificing himself for our sins on the cross. That is by whom we are saved. God Saves. Jesus is God. Jesus Saves...etc God became incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is pretty dern important...he is God just as much as God the Father or God the Son. Recognizing Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as equally God is pretty much one of the marks of Christianity. Since the Holy Spirit is God, worship can not be denied for the Holy Spirit. We can still pray for the guidence of the Holy Spirit, just like we might pray to God the Father. None of this negates from God the Son what is due to him, for he and they are God.

 

[Baruch]

Anyone who says the Spirit cannot be worshipped despite Him being God, or doubts that the Spirit who is God gives life must be off track. Dead church ? Yes there are plenty, there is no joy, there is no praise, they are really bad places to be in. Most of them reject the Spirit and His power and gifts. Reject or quench the Spirit of life and there is no life, it's that simple. Even though they keep fooling themselves and reassuring themselves that they are alive through their wisdom of man and doctrines, despite their fruit showing contrary.

And the mystery of the Charismatic Catholics still eludes you, doesn't it?

Hands raised in worship, right? Where is the Holy Spirit? In you. See a problem?

What line of discernment has been given for us to test the spirits?

1 John 4: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So the Holy Spirit will not be in the worship place.

AND all the manifestations of the Spirit are to bring this report.

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

But what is the report of today? The feeling after the Spirit of God moving in the worship place.

Mediums would have fun picking on believers if the Holy Spirit can be felt in the worship place. They can call forth other spirits and who know what if the Holy Spirit is also in the worship place? Right? Quite the conundrum.

And so Benny Hinn gets caught doing necromancy, but you keep on regaling him, right?

And yet the flesh profits nothing,
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

It really does matter which Bible you use, Mahogony Snail:

John 6:61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The words Jesus spoke unto us, they are spirit, and they are life. Plural on the "they". You wouldn't want to imply that the Spirit is not One, do you?

 

[Baruch]

1 Corinthians 13

14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

2 Corinthians 13: 13All the saints salute you. 14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

What do you think happens when the Holy Spirit puts words on our mouths to speak for the edification of the saints? Do note the salutation being given to the saints in verse 14. May... the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the ( we'll use your term) fellowship of the Holy Spirit "be with you all" is indicative by what? As long as the believers are abiding in Him in according to the Gospel of grace.

So as grace is to be continued in.. as the love of God is to be practised, so is the fellowship of the Holy Spirit is to remain to be in as well. What kind of a testimony is it to call for the Holy Spirit to come when He is already in them? Do we call for grace to come as well? Do we call for the love of God to come as well? And yet there is a certain simplicity in that salutation that reminds us of our rest in Jesus Christ.

Yet, this verse falls short as validation for worshipping the Holy Spirit. If we are in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, we would be worshipping God the Father through the Son as in.. IN spirit and IN truth.

May God cause the increase.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Hands raised in worship, right? Where is the Holy Spirit? In you. See a problem?

Baruch it would seem you confine the Holy Spirit to living within you, as if He can be contained. If that is so, then how does the Spirit convict unbelievers if the Spirit only lives within christians?

I could draw examples from feeling the presence of God in the worship place in the old testament, God being present with His people in the cloud out of Egypt, not to mention the numerous references in the scripture that God is omnipresent. It seems you like to tell the Spirit what He can or cannot do. Anyway your attacks against the Nicene creed are enough to convince me you are a false prophet, so I take everything you say with a grain of salt.

 

[Baruch]

Ok...

The Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus the Son is God.
The Father is God.

These three persons make up the Trinity: the Trinity is God.
If you worship God the Father, you are worshiping God. If you Worship Jesus the Son of God, you are worshiping God. If you worship the Holy Spirit, you are still worshipping God.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is God.

Now show me in scriptures where one is to worship the Holy Spirit? The only one I have found coming close to saying it, but yet not, is this:

John 4:19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Note verse 21-23 before fixating on verse 24. Jesus spoke of coming to the Father in worship. The whole point of verse 24 was to declare the time we are living in now that we do not have to go to a place to worship God the Father for now.. wherever we go .. wherever we are.. we can worship God the Father IN spirit and IN truth.

1 Corinthians 6:18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Answer these questions below:

Why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned to be honoured in John 5:22-23? Why is it that the only way to honour the Father is through the Son?

Why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned to be worshipped nor glorified in John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5?

Yes, the Holy Spirit is God, but I believe He is sent to dwell in us to lead us to testify and to glorify the Son for His name is above every other name... thus worshipping God the Father through the Son which is in keeping with the commandment of His invitation when coming to the Father in worship.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It is true, that salvation comes through Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is himself God. It was the redemptive act of Jesus taking on human flesh and nature (the Incarnation) and sacrificing himself for our sins on the cross. That is by whom we are saved. God Saves. Jesus is God. Jesus Saves...etc God became incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is pretty dern important...he is God just as much as God the Father or God the Son. Recognizing Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as equally God is pretty much one of the marks of Christianity. Since the Holy Spirit is God, worship can not be denied for the Holy Spirit. We can still pray for the guidence of the Holy Spirit, just like we might pray to God the Father. None of this negates from God the Son what is due to him, for he and they are God.

And because the Holy Spirit is God, He will not fail as a Witness of Jesus Christ since He seeks to glorify the Son by bearinf testimony of Him. The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself (John 16:13) and thereby seeking to glorify Jesus when testifying of Him ( John 16:14 & John 15:26) as should we (John 15:27) Because as a witness, man or Spirit, cannot speak of himself... (John 5:31) and to seek his own glory is not glory ( John 7:18 & Proverbs 25:26-28) Because there are other spirits in the world that would like to steal the spotlight away from God the Father, that is why God the Father provided only one way to approach Him.. through the Son.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. .....

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Being how you are in the RCC, how do you account for all the doors to God set between you and Jesus as in the priests for confessions, prayers to Mary, the saints, and including the Holy Spirit, and yet.... the description of a thief in the scriptures has anything and anyone set between us and Jesus? Would God uses His own words to describe Himself as a thief? No.

And yet Jesus is our first love the Bridegroom. To relate to God the Father is through the Son. To know the Son is to know the Father through the scriptures.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The only thing we will know of the Holy Spirit personally is that He will dwell in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ and yet the inner Holy Spirit is still pointing us to go to our first love as it is the name of Jesus which is above every other name. Philippians 2:9-11

 

[Baruch]

Baruch it would seem you confine the Holy Spirit to living within you, as if He can be contained. If that is so, then how does the Spirit convict unbelievers if the Spirit only lives within christians?

Through the word. Hebrews 4:12-13 Plus Jesus confined the Holy Spirit to dwell within us as the only way we shall know the Holy Spirit: John 14:16-17. It is that specificity of how we shall know the Holy Spirit that seperates Him from ever needing to be felt in the worship place as He was before felt in the Temple when believers came to God the Father to worship Him there.

I could draw examples from feeling the presence of God in the worship place in the old testament, God being present with His people in the cloud out of Egypt, not to mention the numerous references in the scripture that God is omnipresent. It seems you like to tell the Spirit what He can or cannot do. Anyway your attacks against the Nicene creed are enough to convince me you are a false prophet, so I take everything you say with a grain of salt.

And the description of a false prophet is what? Read Matthew 7:13-27.

The fruit of the false prophet is that it gathers grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; hence ecumenical in nature. So how was the Nicene Creed done? And yet you do not see me pointing that bone of contention as them pulling a wool over your eyes?

Then truly, I am labouring in vain. Psalm 127:1-2

 

[Baruch]

I believe in the Holy Spirit is God, but I also believe that since the Holy Spirit was sent to not speak of himself but to testify and to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-15), then giving the title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit when scriptures testifies of that being given to the Son... then one is not being led by the Spirit in them to say that; it is of man.

Everyone can make excuses to worship the Holy Spirit, but it is not scriptural and what the Holy Spirit in us leads us to do is to go to God the Father in worship through God the Son so that we may worship Him IN spirit and IN truth... not out of the Spirit and apart from the Truth.

For our witness and worship, the Holy Spirit cannot be in the worship place to be worshipped like He was at the Temple in Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

We are to be witnesses of Jesus Christ as His name is above every other name. ( John 15:26-27 & Philippians 2:9-11)

To clarify the emboldened statement, in keeping with what I am trying to share, by His grace, The Israelites were coming to the Temple to worship God the Father there. At the Temple where His Presence was felt and miracles were known to occur... is the reason why the manifestations were present in the New Testament to bring about the report of 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 in the quote above.

As Jesus Christ is the Gospel and not the signs following Him for I testify as I am sure others can also, that there are many believers that believed in Him without needing to see Him nor signs and wonders, and Jesus declares that they are more blessed than those that otherwise need signs and wonders in order to believe.... and warns against believers needing a sign still...even afterward to believe.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Through the word. Hebrews 4:12-13 Plus Jesus confined the Holy Spirit to dwell within us as the only way we shall know the Holy Spirit: John 14:16-17. It is that specificity of how we shall know the Holy Spirit that seperates Him from ever needing to be felt in the worship place as He was before felt in the Temple when believers came to God the Father to worship Him there.

The point is, the Holy Spirit is not confined to be only within believers. How on earth can unbelievers feel the presence of God in a church service if the Spirit is confined to within the believers? We know God the Father is in heaven, so is the Son, that means they must be feeling the Holy Spirit. How can the Spirit convict anyone if He only lives within us?

And the description of a false prophet is what? Read Matthew 7:13-27.

The fruit of the false prophet is that it gathers grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; hence ecumenical in nature. So how was the Nicene Creed done? And yet you do not see me pointing that bone of contention as them pulling a wool over your eyes?

Then truly, I am labouring in vain. Psalm 127:1-2

In this case it is your unsound doctrine that the Nicene creed is in error that is the bad fruit. But if you are correct, then Baruch we all must thank God for sending you here to rebuke the Nicene creed and correct its errors after 1628 years. Or is it that you think more highly of yourself than you ought? Afterall I don't see anyone here agreeing with you that the Nicene creed is wrong. A thinking person would usually say "hmm, perhaps I am wrong about this", instead, you seem to stick to your position as if everyone else is wrong. That's also another sign of a false prophet, unwilling to be corrected or be accountable to anyone.