View Poll Results: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

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  • Yes

    66 39.05%
  • No

    63 37.28%
  • Maybe

    10 5.92%
  • I Don't Know

    4 2.37%
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    7 4.14%
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    19 11.24%
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Thread: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

  1. #381
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    God is worshipped in Spirit and in Truth.

    We are to love Catholics but love the truth more.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  2. #382
    Senior Member Endoscopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbearer View Post
    They prayed to dead people that they call Saints. Outside of the fact that that is not scriptural they think As if they know And can judge as God.
    It is obvious to the casual observer that you detest Catholics!!

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    It is obvious to the casual observer that you detest Catholics!!
    You are funny.

    The fact is I detest nothing and am irritated by a lot.

    Incidentally if you had nothing to prove what was shared in the post you responded to was wrong that is what you should of posted; nothing.

    Personal remarks against my character? LOL
    LORD I believe; help THOU my unbelief! For YOU have given us all things that pertain to Life and godliness through Jesus Christ.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    It is obvious to the casual observer that you detest Catholics!!

    Detest or love by speaking the truth in Love?

    Do you think practicing necromancy is something to be honored?

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Any religion can become evil even that is first established by God - Judaism

    If it is led by hypocritical law breaker of God's laws, murderers and lovers of money like the shepherds of ancient Israel and Pharisees and Scribes during the time of Christ.
    Proverbs 22:4 The fruit of humility is the fear of the Lord, riches and glory and life.

    P.S. Have time to read my blogs.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    That's the rub. Catholicism affords the Pope near unlimited authority. If he's legitimately elected by the College of Cardinals, you have no recourse to get rid of him other than hoping the Lord wipes him out naturally.

    Makes evil pretty darn hard to stamp out when it comes along.

    Quote Originally Posted by jameen View Post
    Any religion can become evil even that is first established by God - Judaism

    If it is led by hypocritical law breaker of God's laws, murderers and lovers of money like the shepherds of ancient Israel and Pharisees and Scribes during the time of Christ.
    lightbearer, Nehemiah6 and Deade like this.
    We seek him here, we seek him there,
    Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.

  7. #387
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    Detest or love by speaking the truth in Love?

    Do you think practicing necromancy is something to be honored?
    Calling brother and sisters in Christ evil is a bad thing to do. It is over the top wrong. The Catholic Church adheres to the Apostles Creed. Therefore meet the doctrinal statement of who is and isn't a Christian I have many disagreements with Catholicism but they are still fellow Christians. It is horrid to label them evil!!!
    Last edited by Endoscopy; 6 Days Ago at 12:55 AM.
    Brian_Graham likes this.

  8. #388
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    I think the old saw about sin can be applied here- hate the dogma, not the dogmatist.

    The Roman Church has a great number of doctrinal deficiencies, but a fair number of Catholics find the diamonds in the dung. Some are great thinkers and contributors to our faith or influencers of those who contributed to our faith. Without a Tolkien, you wouldn't have a Lewis. Without a von Staupitz, you wouldn't have a Luther. Without an Aquinas, you wouldn't have a Sproul. Without a Muggeridge, you wouldn't have a Zacharias.

    I guarantee the next generation of Protestant theologians and apologists to be marked by the influence of Peter Kreeft and the re-birth of Chesterton's popularity.

    The thing is a lot of these Catholics mentioned above rarely made their case as Catholics, but rather as Christians. Ecumenical Catholics. I would argue that in so doing they wandered off the reservation and into a different sort of territory where Papal decrees, the Mass, and Marian tomfoolery faded in the light of the Gospel.

    Unwitting Protestants IMHO.
    We seek him here, we seek him there,
    Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.

  9. #389
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    I thought you said you were not Catholic? Why make Mary into a god as if her flesh was different than anyone else??

    Yes full of God's grace .Not after the corrupted flesh of Mary who no longer has any part here under the sun (she is sleeping just like the other saints that have had their sin atoned for in full .

    He does not give partial down payment of a unknown amount of grace then say suffer to suffer to gain that which is lacking for an undermined time . The Catholic make the grace of God without effect.... so that they can glory in their own flesh .
    garee:

    1. I am not Catholic.

    2. I am not making Mary into a god.

    3. Catholics do not make Mary into a god, either.

    4. There are many things about the Catholic Church with which I disagree. And I criticize it for its past corruption, brutality, and wealth accumulation. I am simply using solid and thorough research to debunk the myths that many people put forth about what the Catholic Church teaches in their effort to demonize the beliefs held by 1.2-billion Christians who are part of the Catholic denomination. They do this for the sole purpose of attempting to elevate their assertion that theirs is the only true path to salvation. And that is arrogance/hubris. It is arrogant because they presume to know the mind of God (Romans 11:34; 1 Corinthians 2:11; Isaiah 55:8-9). But why, you might ask, do some insist that they know for certain that their belief structure is the only path. Why do Comcast or AT&T work to create a monopoly? Money. If you're the only game in town, it makes it much easier to generate income for your "mission to save souls." It also helps some "pastors" to sustain themselves in a lavish lifestyle. Remember the corruption in the Catholic Church from the 10th to the 18th centuries I mentioned earlier? It has reared its ugly head once again. But none of that is God's doing. It is humans giving in to the inherent weakness of their flesh. It is religious leaders corrupting what the Bible teaches us so they "can glory in their own flesh" at the expense of their immortal souls.

    5. You noted, quite correctly, that the flesh of Mary and the saints is sleeping. But their souls are not. The soul does not die. And it is the soul that is taken into the company of God. Mainstream Protestants believe that. Those Protestants who don't are those who hold that at the time of the Rapture, Jesus will come and vacuum their souls and reconstituted bodies into Heaven, leaving the bodies and souls of everyone else who does not believe as they do to perish on Earth and dwell in Hell for eternity.

    6. It is our souls, not our bodies, that are in a state of grace, and it is our souls, not our bodies, that lose that state of grace when we sin. And it is our souls, not our bodies, that regain that state of grace when we repent our sins. Protestants and Catholics aim to reach the same goal; they just have different mechanisms for how they go about achieving it.

  10. #390
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Were you raised in a Catholic school system? Even if you were, I highly doubt there is some enforced cookie-cutter teaching blueprint Catholic schools must follow, as if there were no variations among what is taught, and when, in Catholic schools all over the world.
    My father was Catholic, my mother was Anglican, my maternal grandmother was Seventh Day Adventist, and my paternal grandfather was Presbyterian. For the reason that no one could agree, I was not raised in the Catholic school system. My education was through the Canadian public school system, which gave me exposure to a broad range of religions. In fact, some of the friends I made in high school from diverse religious backgrounds remain my closest friends 46 years later.

    Think of Catholic parishes and schools as franchises. Head office (the Vatican) determines the rules under which they operate. And it is very strict about what can be taught in relation to religious studies in Catholic schools. The church hierarchy makes this possible. All Catholic clergy must take a vow of obedience when they are ordained, so priests must follow the directions of the bishops, who must follow the directions of the cardinals, who in turn, must follow the Pope. The Vatican does this through the Catechism and under its system of Canon Law. The curriculum for other subjects, however, is governed by regional and local government criteria. On a side note, that is why Catholic schools teach evolution as part of their sciences programs.

    And Catholic parishes, as "franchisees," also contribute a portion of each Sunday's collection to support higher level offices in the diocese. Collections for Peter's Pence, held each year on the Sunday closest to 29 June, go directly to Rome. The total amount collected by the United States in 2011 represented 28% of the worldwide total of USD$2.49-billion. The "Peter's Pence" proceeds are used for philanthropic works by the Catholic Church throughout the world. None of the money is used for the operations of the Vatican. Operations revenue comes from tourism -- such things as admission charges to museums at the Vatican, the sale of postage stamps, and merchandise sales, which that totalled about USD$113-million in 2011. Other operations revenue is generated by income from a substantial investment portfolio managed by the Vatican Bank. (I only have the 2011 figures because that was the most recent year available for a university paper I wrote about the Vatican).

  11. #391
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    Protestant theology defends all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) no oral traditions of men as the things of men .It is the reforming authority in any generation .Its what the Catholic must resist with all their heart soul and might so that they can seek the approval of men seen, rather than the Holy Spirit not seen.

    Its not agreeing or disagreeing with the private interpretation of men(Catholic or Protestant) . Every man or denomination called a sect, a word that comes from the word heresy has a opinion what they think God's interpretation the Bible to us is saying.


    But those who would add another source as those who go above that which is written (sola scriptura) hate all thongs written in the law and the prophets .It shows them as another Christ, another gospel which is not really good news at all. To a Catholic the skies the limit and even if proven wrong Mother Mary is happy the air ways remain open to add to their false authority by their oral tradition, as commandments of men that do make the word of God without effect. Christ called them a brood of vipers for a reason

    That above as a law of the Catholic fathers is just like the private revelation defined by Pope Urban below. They both attempt to make the word of God(sola scriptura) to no effect so that they can Lord it over the faith of other. Faith does not come by hearing men as if they were in the place of the promised Holy Spirit.

    "www.medjugorje.org/purban.htm

    Pope Urban VIII on Private Revelation. His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it.
    "

    I'd like to address your final point first. You provided a quote on "private revelation" from a web site that claims it was made by Pope Urban. But as I've pointed out to you previously, that quote doesn't exist anywhere in the Vatican Archives. I also provided you with a link to the Vatican Archives so you could read for yourself what Urban actually said. The quotes exists only on that web site. In other words, the quote is false. That means it is fake, fabricated, not true, bogus. Stop using false quotes to support your assertions. They don't. They only make your conclusions even more incorrect. Do some research. Don't just copy and paste from the first site that says what you want said.

    Just in case you think I might try to put a "Catholic" spin on sola scriptura, I am going to cite the writings of David Larson, who teaches in the School of Religion at the Seventh-Day Adventist Loma Linda University. I'm sure even you must acknowledge that a theology school at an educational institution run by the Seventh-Day Adventists could not be further from Catholic ideology.

    Larson says the following about Sola Scriptura:

    "If we take the words literally, the doctrine of “sola scriptura” is problematic. The Latin word “sola” means “only,” “scriptura” means “scripture,” and so together they mean “only scripture.” In some circles this expression has come to mean that we Christians should consider nothing but the Old and New Testaments when determining what to believe and how to behave. This is not helpful. Neither is it what the Protestant Reformers who promoted this doctrine in sixteenth century Europe had in mind.

    For people like Martin Luther and John Calvin “sola scriptura” had a focused meaning. This was that the Roman Catholic teaching that the ultimate authorities for Christians are scripture and tradition is mistaken. Christians have only one supreme authority and it is scripture, they held. For them the doctrine of “sola scriptura” was more like a single bullet that sped toward a specific target than the spraying projectiles of a shotgun it has sometimes now become.

    But even this is not exact enough. ... As evidenced by the effective use the Reformers made of the writings of others, for them “sola scriptura” did not mean that we should consider and give weight to nothing else. They were among the best educated people of their day! This is why it seems clearer in our time to convey their meaning by using the expression prima scriptura. The unique role of scripture resides in its overriding priority, not in its supposed exclusiveness.

    An exclusivist understanding of the role of scripture is not helpful for a number of reasons. One of these is that none of us can read scripture without being influenced by the circumstances in which we live. Another is that without studying other forms of contemporary knowledge, as well as the whole of scripture, it can be difficult to know how to apply what it says. Still further, the doctrine of “sola scriptura” makes it difficult for denominations to make effective use of the views of their pioneers, be they John Hus, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cramner, Count Nicholas Ludwig von Zinzendorf, John Wesley, or Ellen White. A fourth problem is that this doctrine makes it less likely that Christians will learn from religions other than their own. A fifth is that viewing scripture this way can needlessly make Christians appear dogmatic and obscurant.

    Applying scripture to our lives is related to but different from reconstructing as accurately as possible what its various passages first meant, something that non-Christian historians and linguists can do equally well. For them the Bible is a cultural classic; however, for those of us who are Christians it is the primary religious canon, too."

    Most Reformers had been instructed by humanists and used their methods. They insisted on a scholarly approach and intellectual integrity for interpreting the Bible in a sermon. Calvin called for the use of dictionaries, grammar books, the commentaries which already existed, and he also advocated that texts should be studied in their original language. [I tried my best to do that at university, but I found I had a great deal of difficulty trying to read the ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin of available texts. Now, I use the KJV and scholarly works by respected theologians when an issue of a translation from the original language arises.] He urged people to read the Scriptures using their faith and their intellect.

    Calvin thought that the Bible could only be understood when placed in context: the Holy Spirit inspired the authors, but was constrained by human knowledge at the time. So it was important that the Bible reader should be aware of the background and the age in which these texts were written.

    Scholarly works by respected theologians are an aid to understanding the richness of the Bible. But at no time should they ever be elevated to having equal status with Scripture.

    On a side note, I've found that people who insist on the literalism of the Bible and sola scriptura are often among the first to cite the Book of Revelation as evidence that the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" and the Pope is the anit-Christ. They fail to recognize that their very interpretation of Revelation goes against the directive of sola scriptura. They are employing a conspiracy theory interpretation to fit the Catholic Church into the narrative of Revelation.
    Last edited by Brian_Graham; 6 Days Ago at 10:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Yes, because all that is contrary on the teachings of the Holy Scripture is evil.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

  13. #393
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Among other teachings...

    The veneration of dummies and dolls.

    Praying to other than God.

    Writings outside of the Word as from God...

    much more........

    The very educated who should know better teach falsehoods which they know are falsehoods.
    claysmithr and Deade like this.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


  14. #394
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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Graham View Post
    I'd like to address your final point first. You provided a quote on "private revelation" from a web site that claims it was made by Pope Urban. But as I've pointed out to you previously, that quote doesn't exist anywhere in the Vatican Archives. I also provided you with a link to the Vatican Archives so you could read for yourself what Urban actually said. The quotes exists only on that web site. In other words, the quote is false. That means it is fake, fabricated, not true, bogus. Stop using false quotes to support your assertions. They don't. They only make your conclusions even more incorrect. Do some research. Don't just copy and paste from the first site that says what you want said.

    Just in case you think I might try to put a "Catholic" spin on sola scriptura, I am going to cite the writings of David Larson, who teaches in the School of Religion at the Seventh-Day Adventist Loma Linda University. I'm sure even you must acknowledge that a theology school at an educational institution run by the Seventh-Day Adventists could not be further from Catholic ideology.

    Larson says the following about Sola Scriptura:

    "If we take the words literally, the doctrine of “sola scriptura” is problematic. The Latin word “sola” means “only,” “scriptura” means “scripture,” and so together they mean “only scripture.” In some circles this expression has come to mean that we Christians should consider nothing but the Old and New Testaments when determining what to believe and how to behave. This is not helpful. Neither is it what the Protestant Reformers who promoted this doctrine in sixteenth century Europe had in mind.

    For people like Martin Luther and John Calvin “sola scriptura” had a focused meaning. This was that the Roman Catholic teaching that the ultimate authorities for Christians are scripture and tradition is mistaken. Christians have only one supreme authority and it is scripture, they held. For them the doctrine of “sola scriptura” was more like a single bullet that sped toward a specific target than the spraying projectiles of a shotgun it has sometimes now become.

    But even this is not exact enough. ... As evidenced by the effective use the Reformers made of the writings of others, for them “sola scriptura” did not mean that we should consider and give weight to nothing else. They were among the best educated people of their day! This is why it seems clearer in our time to convey their meaning by using the expression prima scriptura. The unique role of scripture resides in its overriding priority, not in its supposed exclusiveness.

    An exclusivist understanding of the role of scripture is not helpful for a number of reasons. One of these is that none of us can read scripture without being influenced by the circumstances in which we live. Another is that without studying other forms of contemporary knowledge, as well as the whole of scripture, it can be difficult to know how to apply what it says. Still further, the doctrine of “sola scriptura” makes it difficult for denominations to make effective use of the views of their pioneers, be they John Hus, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cramner, Count Nicholas Ludwig von Zinzendorf, John Wesley, or Ellen White. A fourth problem is that this doctrine makes it less likely that Christians will learn from religions other than their own. A fifth is that viewing scripture this way can needlessly make Christians appear dogmatic and obscurant.

    Applying scripture to our lives is related to but different from reconstructing as accurately as possible what its various passages first meant, something that non-Christian historians and linguists can do equally well. For them the Bible is a cultural classic; however, for those of us who are Christians it is the primary religious canon, too."

    Most Reformers had been instructed by humanists and used their methods. They insisted on a scholarly approach and intellectual integrity for interpreting the Bible in a sermon. Calvin called for the use of dictionaries, grammar books, the commentaries which already existed, and he also advocated that texts should be studied in their original language. [I tried my best to do that at university, but I found I had a great deal of difficulty trying to read the ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin of available texts. Now, I use the KJV and scholarly works by respected theologians when an issue of a translation from the original language arises.] He urged people to read the Scriptures using their faith and their intellect.

    Calvin thought that the Bible could only be understood when placed in context: the Holy Spirit inspired the authors, but was constrained by human knowledge at the time. So it was important that the Bible reader should be aware of the background and the age in which these texts were written.

    Scholarly works by respected theologians are an aid to understanding the richness of the Bible. But at no time should they ever be elevated to having equal status with Scripture.

    On a side note, I've found that people who insist on the literalism of the Bible and sola scriptura are often among the first to cite the Book of Revelation as evidence that the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" and the Pope is the anit-Christ. They fail to recognize that their very interpretation of Revelation goes against the directive of sola scriptura. They are employing a conspiracy theory interpretation to fit the Catholic Church into the narrative of Revelation.
    One admonition is the KJV is flawed by the passage of time makes changes in languages. 400 years ago kill meant murder. Today that isn't true.
    KJV Thou shalt not kill.
    NIV You shall not commit murder.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Graham View Post
    Just in case you think I might try to put a "Catholic" spin on sola scriptura, I am going to cite the writings of David Larson, who teaches in the School of Religion at the Seventh-Day Adventist Loma Linda University.
    It does not matter what Larson or even the pope say about the Word of God. Because Scripture is the Word of God, by definition it is supreme in all matters of faith and practice. And that is what Sola Scriptura means. If any teaching lines up with Scripture, fine. But if it does not, then it must be rejected.

    There are a very large number of Catholic and Orthodox teachings which DO NOT line up with Scripture. They should have been rejected out of hand a long time ago. Instead they were retained and made into dogma.
    Desdichado and tourist like this.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endoscopy View Post
    One admonition is the KJV is flawed by the passage of time makes changes in languages. 400 years ago kill meant murder. Today that isn't true.
    KJV Thou shalt not kill.
    NIV You shall not commit murder.
    And had you simply checked Strong's Concordance, you could have easily confirmed that "kill" meant "murder" in the KJV also.

    Strong's Concordance
    ratsach: to murder, slay
    Original Word: רָצַח
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: ratsach
    Phonetic Spelling: (raw-tsakh')
    Short Definition: manslayer

    People make a big deal out of such things when Strong's has been around for a very long time, and it is the duty of every Christian to properly determine the meaning of any word which may be in doubt.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    It does not matter what Larson or even the pope say about the Word of God. Because Scripture is the Word of God, by definition it is supreme in all matters of faith and practice. And that is what Sola Scriptura means. If any teaching lines up with Scripture, fine. But if it does not, then it must be rejected.

    There are a very large number of Catholic and Orthodox teachings which DO NOT line up with Scripture. They should have been rejected out of hand a long time ago. Instead they were retained and made into dogma.
    Did you miss (or just ignore) the part where I wrote: "Scholarly works by respected theologians are an aid to understanding the richness of the Bible. But at no time should they ever be elevated to having equal status with Scripture"?

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    Among other teachings...

    The veneration of dummies and dolls.
    If only that statement was accurate.

    It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

    People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

    Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    And had you simply checked Strong's Concordance, you could have easily confirmed that "kill" meant "murder" in the KJV also.

    Strong's Concordance
    ratsach: to murder, slay
    Original Word: רָצַח
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: ratsach
    Phonetic Spelling: (raw-tsakh')
    Short Definition: manslayer

    People make a big deal out of such things when Strong's has been around for a very long time, and it is the duty of every Christian to properly determine the meaning of any word which may be in doubt.
    That means for every verse you need to grab Strongs. Easier to use a modern translation like NIV or ESV. More detail can be found in AMPC. It lists the different translations for original language words.
    Last edited by Endoscopy; 6 Days Ago at 08:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Roman Catholicism Evil?

    Roman Cholithisam is not only EVIL IT IS DEMONIC!!!! I have been told by many Christians there are christian choliths, so I give it the benefit of the doubt but if someone says a Hail Mary they are NOT CHRISTIAN TO ME; THANK G-D I CAN NOT JUDGE PEOPLE'S SALVATION... I WOULD CAST THEM INTO HELL!

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