people demand answers

aworldexport67 · Apr 27, 2011

people demand answers to their questions but have no intention of doing it themselves..go on folks wrtie so you can read your own writings..i got better things to do with my time..when i first came here id hope for honest direct conversation and debate and now see this is impossible..God bless those few that try because they love the word of God..but the majority of people here.. dont care..Best wishes

AnandaHya · Apr 27, 2011

lol if they are demanding answers from other lost sinners then that should tell you something.

lol why ask mediums and humans when we have the HOLY Spirit and Jesus as our Teacher and Mediator?

I thought when people post that it was a joke, are you telling people were SERIOUS and actually wanted me to answer. OOPs my bad.

lol shhhh....i'll let you in on a secret (most people don't know the meaning of debate) I ran across this and thought I'd share

Keep it in perspective: if their cup of knowledge is full of their own thoughts then there will be no room for anyone's input, including God's voice. Therefore if they do not listen to GOD, well put it this way, at least when they ignore you then you're in good company, eehhh???

Debate Rules and Suggestions

Avoid the use of Never.
Avoid the use of Always.
Refrain from saying you are wrong.
You can say your idea is mistaken.
Don't disagree with obvious truths.
Attack the idea not the person.
Use many rather than most.
Avoid exaggeration.
Use some rather than many.
The use of often allows for exceptions.
The use of generally allows for exceptions.
Quote sources and numbers.
If it is just an opinion, admit it.
Do not present opinion as facts.
Smile when disagreeing.
Stress the positive.
You do not need to win every battle to win the war.
Concede minor or trivial points.
Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
Watch your tone of voice.
Don't win a debate and lose a friend.
Keep your perspective - You're just debating.

zone · Apr 27, 2011

aworldexport67 said:

i hope you don't go...i've found your posts informative and edifying.
please come back, if you feel led.

love zone

zone · Apr 27, 2011

AnandaHya said:

ananda....this isn't just DEBATE.
not long ago someone was using the Gospel armour for demonbusting, insisting unbiblical practices were biblical.

there seems of late to be a more biblical and proper understanding and use of what its actually for.

the OP has been extremely diligent, he's made carefully considered posts and shared his knowledge and wisdom - he is rightly frustrated by the circular repetitions of the same half-truths and heresies.

please respect that. thank you.

AnandaHya · Apr 27, 2011

yes and SOMEONE needs to remember that the battle is JESUS and respect that.

the problem is most people take it too personally when it should just be conversation and DEBATE.

the HOLY SPIRIT LEADS and TEACHES.

and I still believe in demonbusting, I just don't see the need to argue about it online with someone who doesn't understand, listen or care to hear what I'm saying. I've always believed it was through prayer and reliance on JESUS that demons are casted out, you just never bothered to listen.

oops sorry how do you rephrase that with out the "always" and "never"

zone · Apr 27, 2011

AnandaHya said:

ummm...
i listen to EVERYTHING.

and i forget very little.

The Holy Spirit leads and teaches those WHO ARE CHRIST'S.
He convicts the world of sin and prompts repentence unto salvation in those who aren't.

didn't you know you have a duty to stand for sound doctrine BECAUSE we have false teachers among us? do you know how many people may read and believe Jesus Christ is a CREATED ENTITY, for example?

The Battle does belong tothe Lord...but:
not long ago you were swinging your sword looking for wolves and crashing down strongholds....and uttering prophecies verbatim from Jesus Christ. are you still a prophetess receiving "words" from the Lord, ananda?

not long ago your position was that we are His eyes ears and feet...and some the mouth (the prophets)

~

as for "conversation": yes, it is that.

however, when the conversation reaches a certain point concerning core doctrine, i wonder if you know what John meant here:

2 John 1
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what wea have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

NoahsMom · Apr 27, 2011

I can understand your feelings aworldexport67, I agree that you do bring alot of good things to the table here in cc debate, HOWEVER, it IS just a forum and while some feel strongly about topics and may voice this in a way thats aggravating, rude and maybe plain ignorance to some , at the end of the day I take what I can and roll with it, some i dismiss from my mind like i never read it. I know where I stand in God, if its biblical, edifying or teaches me more than I knew when i came in, then Im good. If not, Im gonna keep on keeping on just like before. There are alot of wonderful ppl here , you may not agree with all of em, but you can appriciate their sincereity and desire to know Gods word and learn something new every now and again. God bless you, and i hope you reconsider.

livingbygrace · Apr 27, 2011

'Anyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God'

The teaching of Christ plainly and continuously stated that if a person believed he was the son of God they have eternal life on that basis, he added nothing to that

He did not say this depended on whether his Father preexisted him, his nature, or anything else

So

Anyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not know God

OK, but I have never said anyone on this website does not know God, but I will believe what you have written if you like

AnandaHya · Apr 27, 2011

NoahsMom said:

Second that motion

ZONE, I've stop looking for the wolves and let the HEAD shepherd deal with them

I still believe in spiritual gifts and if people go away with false doctrines then that is between THEM and GOD. they have the BIBLE and the HOLY Spirit to teach them.

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

just in case they need a free online one.

Does God still speak to me directly? yes and I've got a thread on HOW. My beliefs haven't changed I've just found a way to word them so you don't find them as offensive

If they do change it will be because GOD told me to change them not because of anyone else's words on this site.

That is why I'm not worried I put my faith and TRUST in God. Salvation is the ONE pearl that we trade all else to possess. It is the Gift given to us by our Heavenly Father through Christ sacrifice on the Cross.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/22505-how-does-god-speak.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/22947-misusing-scripture-one-pearl.html

zone · Apr 27, 2011

AnandaHya said:

no ananda: that's between God and the one that taught the false doctrine to them.

if they then go and teach it, then it is between them and God.

AnandaHya · Apr 28, 2011

zone said:

2 John 1
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

And what is the teachings of Christ?

Mark 16:15-20 (New King James Version)

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they[a] will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Christ Ascends to God’s Right Hand

19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.[b

Yet you teach that God no longer gives spiritual gifts and that casting demons and spiritual warfare is of Satan and not found in the Bible?

A person salvation is between the PERSON and GOD, because CHRIST is our only TRUE teacher and mediator. if you worship your pastor and take HIS words over the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT then YOU are wrong, not the pastor because how is he to know you are practicing idolatry in the pulpit by worshiping him? (unless of course you tell him and if he does not rebuke you and allows you to worship him then HE is wrong) Paul refused to be worshiped and was stoned for his words.

Acts 14:9-19 (New King James Version)

9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped and walked. 11 Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes.
14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, 16 who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.” 18 And with these sayings they could scarcely restrain the multitudes from sacrificing to them.

Stoning, Escape to Derbe

19 Then Jews from Antioch and Iconium came there; and having persuaded the multitudes, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead.

livingbygrace · Apr 28, 2011

AnandaHya said:

But where there are prophecies they will cease, where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass away
For we know in part and we prophecy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears.
1 Cor 13:8-10

Tongues, prophecy and knowledge are lumped together here by Paul
So if perfection has come and tongues has been done away with so has knowledge. I wonder how many would agree with that

John 14:11&12
Acts 14:3

Heb 2:2-4

Acts 15:18

That is where the power is, in the truth being preached

AnandaHya · Apr 28, 2011

lol Zone has before informed me that Perfection is the completion of the Bible and "knowledge" is direct revelations? or was that her definition of "prophecy"?

either way you will find that quite a few people think the gifts have ceased according to that verse but they haven't been able to answer why prophecy no longer exist according to this one since the other gifts are still evident and needed for the health of any church:

Romans 12

Living Sacrifices to God

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Serve God with Spiritual Gifts

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

livingbygrace · Apr 28, 2011

AnandaHya said:

lol Zone has before informed me that Perfection is the completion of the Bible and "knowledge" is direct revelations? or was that her definition of "prophecy"?

Now we see but a poor reflection in a mirrror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known
1 Cor 13:12

This is plainly refering to when we live again with Christ and his Father, not our lives on earth, therefore prophecies, tongues and knowledge have not been done away with

The churches Paul preached to had the gifts of the Spirit and yet they knew all of Paul's teachings. Did the gifts therefore cease because the other ten NT books brought perfection? Did the other Apostles have greater revelation than did Paul that brought perfection?

The gifts were given to build up the body, the gifts empowered the message to be boldly preached. Why would that not be the case now? The Holy Spirit leads the believer into truth, has this ceased now because we have the NT

It is strange that Paul lumps Prophecy, tongues and knowledge together, but it is KNOWLEDGE that people do not believe has passed away. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

And biblically speaking signs, wonders and miracles confirm the true message being preached

Is God the same yesterday, today and forever?

either way you will find that quite a few people think the gifts have ceased according to that verse but they haven't been able to answer why prophecy no longer exist according to this one since the other gifts are still evident and needed for the health of any church:

Romans 12

Living Sacrifices to God

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Serve God with Spiritual Gifts

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

answer above

AnandaHya · Apr 28, 2011

livingbygrace said:

I'll save Zone the trouble by pointing out that the Bible was completed upon the writing Revelation and compiling them all into its present day form because both are considered acts of Divine inspiration.

Therefore it was not completed until after Paul's death and after the early church....

I think perfection refers to the second coming of Jesus because we do not see God as God sees us, but when Jesus comes then we will have and abide in the three attributes that will not pass away.

Knowledge speaks of knowledge of this sinful world, knowledge of the laws of nature and laws of punishment. When Jesus comes and judges, then we won't need to know them any more, which is why they will be done away with.

We will still have knowledge of God's love, faith and our purpose in His creation. or perhaps that is what the Bible refers to as Wisdom?

livingbygrace · Apr 28, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Wouldn't you say our knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit who convicts us of and leads us into truth. The same spirit who bestows the gifts?

Having the NT could not therefore do away with the need for the gifts

The Pharisees had the OT scriptures but according to Christ did not know his Father. Just having the NT does not mean a person knows Christ or his Father. The Holy Spirit has to show us the truth and convict us of it in our hearts

AnandaHya · Apr 28, 2011

haven't explained that paradox to me either: how they believe in the Holy Spirit but not in the spiritual gifts that accompany the in dwelling of the spirit?

been researching perhaps you would like to listen, this is where Zone seems to get some of her ideas from, but I like the speaker more, he knows Hebrew, and Greek, is a historian by profession and includes GOOD sermons as examples too.

she has other sources but they don't hold as much interest for me.

Fighting for the Faith: Spiritual Formation

anyway I've been listening and sometimes he makes good points but sometimes he is very bitter and cynical. just part of being human.

livingbygrace · Apr 28, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Thanks for the link, I might take a look

I think for me anyway it is the way you view the Christian faith.

I believe a person can only come to Christ if they are drawn by the Holy Spirit, a supernatural occurence if you like. The natural man would never come

Then what does our Christianity stand on, how do we grow?

Well the rational mind would say
You get what you earn, what you deserve, it depends how good you can be. When I was a child I believed this, but when I finally read the NT for myself I found the very opposite was true
So the human logic and understanding directly opposes the truth of the Gospel message, so our natural undserstanding can in truth only be a barrier to understanding God's truth if you see what I mean

A fampous Evangelist once said
Faith begins where logic ends

The first Christians were known as 'The Way' they lived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit, and this to me is the great dividing line

We can all convince ourselves that our striving for knowledge is Holy Spirit led, but is it?

I honestly believe that man's own endeavours and flesh can only get in the way of understanding truth

We must decrease, and he must increase in us.

But it is so hard to let go of the logic, the rational mind and to live by a simple faith that will sorely be tested by the rational mind and understanding.

I agree with you, many worship their pastor, or the great theologians and scholars they read up on.
For me that has never been the way. The absolute truth is in the Bible, and the real truth that matters is available to all if they ask and trust to be shown

But are we trusting the spirit will show us, or straining in ourselves to understand? Only in the bottom of our hearts can we know that

I think sometimes in the western world we are hindered by our so called 'knowledge'

I remember as a child reading a wonderful book

'The gentle breeze of Jesus' concernig Christians in Indonesia. They had such a simple, childlike faith and saw such miracles

Our own understanding and logic truly do get in the way of us knowing so much and seeing the power of the spirit in our lives. God does not think like humans

And I guess if you think like that you are more prepared to rely on the Holy Spirit and be open to the gifts of the spirit

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight

1 Cor 3:19

AnandaHya · Apr 28, 2011

my husband told me a story the other day about the word "impossible" a kid was late for a college math class and he asked the professor what the homework was and he said the problems on the board, the kid came back with 2 of the five problems solved. the problems on the board were supposedly "impossible equations" in math and the kid missed that part of the lecture and solved something that have baffled scholars for decades.

Makes you wonder

what would be possible if people stop believing the lies of how we can't.

Jesus said if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to move and it will. If you have faith you can walk on water, and follow as the Holy Spirit leads you, but you will sink if you take your eyes off the Lord's light and promise of salvation.

livingbygrace · Apr 28, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Yes, very true

But for the above to happen faith would have to triumph over the rational mind.

Didn't Peter START to walk on water, but when he looked down he began to sink, when he was looking to Jesus he walked

We are saved by faith, justified by faith, obediant by faith, grow by faith, overcome by faith
And we are seen as perfect by our Father in Heaven because of faith

And faith comes to us by the grace of God

Ah but then their is the rational mind
No wonder Jesus said you must come as little children!

people demand answers

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