Scott,
First off. If you can't take the time to format your responses correctly Don't expect anyone to answer you. This is the last time I waste ten minutes reformatting your quote. Also. You do not have to yell. we do not need anything over 3.
There is one church. It has a name, It is called the "body of Christ" All who are born again belong to this church, it is not a denomination (catholic, orthodox, baptist, or whatever) it is a spiritual church. However, It may include some of these churches. It is the Gospel that is taught which makes it a true church. If the correct Gospel (way to heaven) is taught, it is a true church, if not, it is a false church. There are only two gospels taught by all churches. A gospel of works, and a gospel of faith.
That is a false dichotomy. Scripture teaches faith (Eph. 2:8-9) and works (Eph. 2:10). God produces both in people who believe in Him (Titus 3:5; James 2:24). And it's totally His mercy, not anything we can do in our own strength, that saves us. In Erie Scott
You speak of blindly following? Are we to blindly follow the orthodox church or catholic church for the same reasons you posted added to there fact that they "claim" to be the only true church??
I do not blindly follow anyone. To blindly follow someone you take what they say as truth without studying scripture for yourself to make sure they are speaking truth. To blindly follow is to take a persons word as truth just because he is who he is. Many churches do this. most noticably catholic and orthodoxy!
That is False! You just slander what you don't understand, so that you can preach
the Reformation program: If, indeed, your view of Scripture is derived from one or another of the many Protestant sects. I think we should not blindly follow the slogans of the Protestant "biblicists" sola scriptura, sola fide, etc.
All of these are "traditions of men"!
Anyway, I apologize if you think putting things in capital letters is shouting.
As I get older, it is easier for me to read large letters. I try to put it in words that can be seen. It is a hard time for me to read small letters.
What do the rabbinic Jews have to do with this conversation? They misinterpreted the OT or they would have received their messiah. I do not believe the way I do just because it is against the Pope. I believe the way I do because I have studied God's word. I did not even know what the pope taught until long after I came up with my belief. Just because people made mistakes does not mean all people who believe somewhat what they do are following them.
I believe the way that I do because I have studied God's word! The Protestants all, MOST OF THEM, say "AND THE SON"! In this, THEY ALL FOLLOW THE POPE OF ROME (after 1014 AD). If you disagree with Filioque, you agree with the Gospel as the ORTHODOX CHURCH PREACHES IT! Thus, your understanding didn't come from yourself, it came from the Orthodox Church: St. John, in particular. He was a Jewish Orthodox Christian, Greek speaking, writing in Greek: HE REPORTED THE HOLY WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST IN JOH 15:26.
I DON'T JUST BLINDLY FOLLOW THE ORTHODOX CHURCH. If I have a valid question, I ask it. I find I have no valid questions, though. Everything I read in Orthodox books and in the Bible makes sense to me, when the OC explains the true context of the Scriptures to me. I don't rely on private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21). I rely on the consensus of Orthodox Christians: laymen, theologians, Saints of the Church, my local friend the Russian Orthodox priest, and every reliable Christian witness. Orthodox Christian witness.
Well, how did you come up with your belief? If it wasn't taught in the first 451 years of the Church, how do you know it is true?
By 451 AD, the Faith of the Church was completed in its phase 1. Phase 2 was just explication of the Faith of Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Chalcedon. The remaining 3 ecumenical councils, 7 holy councils total! Then sealed by the vindication of the Faith of Saint Photios in 879-880 AD, accepted by both Constantinople and Papal Rome, when Rome was then ORTHODOX, WITHOUT FILIQOUE! God save us! In Erie PA Scott H.
What they do is place their eternity in the hands of what they believe. If they get it right. They will spend eternity with God. if they get it wrong. They will spend eternity separated from God. And have no one to blame but themselves. (this of course is if the gospel is what is in question and differing interpretation) If it is a non gospel interpretation, such as when the rapture will happen. Then it really does not matter. If they both accept the same "true" gospel. they will both spend eternity with God.
Do we blindly follow someone just because they claim to be a true church?
Do we just say that we must automatically disagree with what the Orthodox Church says, because she claims to be what she is, the true Church?
Where does the Scripture teach, "invisible church". The visible church has both wheat and tares (weeds). Christ didn't predict a sinless Church, just a Church being forgiven of all its sins, and cleansed from all unrighteousness. The sinners in the Church who repent will be saved; those who continue in sin and don't seek God's mercy will be condemned. This is true, and God can save anyone, in whatever denomination He choses to do so. That doesn't mean the true Church isn't VISIBLE. Also, where do we get our traditions from? Scripture and the apostles (2 Thess. 2:15), or from men 1521 years after Christ? If your understanding of Scripture is only possible because of what MARTIN LUTHER SAID AND DID, you must ask: Did Martin Luther go far enough, or did he leave Roman Catholicism UNREFORMED? Did he teach a pure gospel, or a gospel of slogans (solas) and not solid teaching? Did he wrongly reject books of the Bible (Wisdom, Sirach, Tobit, etc.), while claiming James is wrong and that he, Martin Luther, had the right and ability to add words to the Bible that are not in the original Greek (Romans 3:28), "alone" "allein" durch den Glauben, when in German, it should have been "durch den Glauben", without the "allein". Take care. God bless you. Scott
Imagine if the jews had blindly followed the pharisees and Sadducees because they made this claim. Many did and are lost for eternity because of it. Why would we risk making the same mistake they made?
The roman catholic church and eastern orthodox church are part of these denominations, whether they claim to be or not.
So you are saying the eastern orthodox Church follows the traditions of men, like the Scribes and pharisees and saducees, but your private Protestant tradition is a tradition of God, even though you can produce not one text of any Christian anywhere on earth, written between 100 and 200 AD, the era immediately following the NT era, that says "sola scriptura, sola fide".
How do we know how to interpret the Bible, when we don't ask what the early Christians believed? Did they believe "faith without works is dead", or do they believe "dead faith", faith "without works", saves?
Take care. In Erie PA Scott
Yes it is, And we can know the true church because they will teach the truth. Truth is not determined by the church, the church is determined by the truth. Where do we get the truth? Blindly follow a churhc because they say they are the church. Or study to see who is teaching truth? Is not our eternity up for stake here? Who would blindly follow someone so important? Again, the jews made this mistake.
Only God can lead us to God. People can try to direct us. But God is the one who has to help us understand truth. That is one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit. God draws us to him, The HS helps us see his truth (when our minds and hearts are open) and thus we make a personal decision based on this truth. Or reject this truth. This is why no man will have an excuse. Paul makes it clear in Romans it is the HS who convicts. Which brings us to repentance. And it is the HS who will help us understand truth. Not men!
You mean do what you are doing? No, we should not do it. We should openb our minds and hearts, and not be unlearned and unstable men who interpret scripture to match our own beliefs, and do not make our beliefs match scripture. Which is what Peter was saying. He was not telling us not to try to interpret scripture. He was telling us to do what Paul said, Study to show ourselves approved. The People Peter spoke of did not study. So they were unlearned. They did not repent, So they were unstable, thus they interpreted Pauls writings in error.
[quote[if it is truly every man or woman or child for themselves, they are all responsible for DISOBEYING 2 Peter 1:20-21 by taking it upon themselves to try to figure out what the Scriptures mean,
