What happens to good people that don't follow Jesus

[Dough57]

I know this may seem like a no brainer or trick question but what happens (now and in the end) to the pepole I know who are good decent people but don't follow Jesus, think God won't punish them for sex outside of marriage as long as within a committed relationship (like Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russel), who think getting drunk is not a bad thing (except for the headache) thinks abortion and homosexuality is accetable otherwise God wouldn't have given us the ability to do it, etc, etc. Those people who think the Bible was for the times of old but it doesn't count for today. That as long as they treat people fairly and nicely, don't condemn or judge others, help thers in need,don't "whore around" then they will go to heaven.

I struggle with this often in talking with people that are in my circle of influence.

Dough57

 

[Gabriel777]

Funny that this post came up because i just finished talking to someone in the chat rooms who believes the same thing. They still go to hellfire. Doing good doesn't not justify sinning. That's why Jesus had to come and die for us

 

[Gabriel777]

Unfortunately unless God allows them to change and be saved there is no hope for them

 

[resurrection33]

I know this may seem like a no brainer or trick question but what happens (now and in the end) to the pepole I know who are good decent people but don't follow Jesus, think God won't punish them for sex outside of marriage as long as within a committed relationship (like Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russel), who think getting drunk is not a bad thing (except for the headache) thinks abortion and homosexuality is accetable otherwise God wouldn't have given us the ability to do it, etc, etc. Those people who think the Bible was for the times of old but it doesn't count for today. That as long as they treat people fairly and nicely, don't condemn or judge others, help thers in need,don't "whore around" then they will go to heaven.

I struggle with this often in talking with people that are in my circle of influence.

Dough57

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” Mark 10:18 RSV

 

[Protection_Retribution]

We go to hell.

 

[Gentile]

Best example I know of: THE RICH YOUNG RULER.

Luke 18:18-25.

 

[silverwind]

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” Mark 10:18 RSV

some other verses: There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, no one who searches for God, all have turned away and together become worthless....

No matter how good people are (and there are many still) if they don't believe in the risen Saviour, they are lost.

 

[JisaL]

Funny that this post came up because i just finished talking to someone in the chat rooms who believes the same thing. They still go to hellfire. Doing good doesn't not justify sinning. That's why Jesus had to come and die for us

It's a shame to see any mind be so closed. While I don't feel indulging in alcohol or sex before marriage to be a "sin," I won't argue about that. What I do find revolting is how anyone can dismiss good people to a "hell" like on the bases of their sexual preference, and things like this, and find it to be justifiable.

Why follow a doctrine that is so cruel? I don't believe in this, or any religion and for good reason (but that's a whole other debate.) Barring all reason, to state that if, however, any of it were to be true I would gladly condemn my soul to defy such a god that would cast away good people for folly reasons. That is what I feel is truly righteous, not blind faith in a malicious master masquerading as a loving deity but only if you submit to be his slave for eternity and accept his bigoted and evil doctrine.

I find it appalling such a belief system is so widespread. No doubt there are many christian sects that are not so cruel and don't follow the literal translation of scripture, for they are thankfully a little more logical than that. However, the bigoted beliefs of people who follow literal scripture are far too widespread for my comfort. For they, among similar systems, are the birthplace of ignorance and war.

I went off on kind of a tangent, but my point is I've not only abandoned "faith" based beliefs for reason and logical understanding through learning and my true passion, a scientific pursuit, but also in part, though admittedly secondary and less so, because I came to the moral realization that a god that demands such evils of me is no god that I would follow.

 

[lightbliss]

^^

Do you know what blind faith is?

 

[LaylieCalmMind]

I believe the majority of Christians agree, and the majority of Christian doctrine teaches that everyone who does not believe that Jesus was the son of god and accepts the kingdom of heaven, will go to eternal hell. I don't believe in it anymore, but I was taught as a child, all the way through my teenage years that hell was agony worse than what any human could possibly experience in the physical realm, and that it was eternal, and it never got better, it lasted literally forever. I don't know about any of you, but I thought this was just astoundingly, shockingly, and disturbingly cruel.

Can you take a second to comprehend that? Take the worst pain you've ever felt and multiply it ten-fold. Now imagine that pain is constant, and you don't ever get used to it. Imagine you're in that pain for a day, then a month, then a year. Now imagine it lasts for all of eternity, it will never end, you will never be released from this excruciating agony, there is no escape. I would never ever wish this sort of punishment on any being that can feel pain. I don't care if someone is ten times as evil as Hitler, they do not deserve that.

Are you starting to comprehend it? Can you even put the suffering into perspective? Well I was able, to a certain extent and I sincerely believed that every single soul who did not believe the way I did, would suffer that horrible fate eternally. That's billions of people. I laid awake at night in bed, literally sobbing, thinking about how my school counselor Mrs. Padar will be tortured there forever, just because she didn't know that Jesus was the son of god. It didn't matter that she was the nicest person, or that she deeply cared for every child in that school, it didn't matter how many children she helped feel safe and succeed in school. She's just one example, I was thinking of everyone who was in hell or going there. No one asked to be born human, we just were and there's nothing we could have done about it. We live our lives and while we slip up sometimes and hurt someone, in general we try to be good people, and do good things... Do you understand why I think that no one deserves hell?

But I'd like to ask an honest, sincere question of all the Christians who read what I just wrote.

How do you cope with, or justify the idea that kind, selfless people go to hell just for not believing the way you believe? How does this make you feel? Have you ever shed tears for them? Do you actually think they deserve it?

I know the theological answer, and I think it's a poor rationalization and doesn't justify hell at all, I'd heard it many times from pastors who I sought the help of when I was losing my faith. I'm wondering how it effects you personally and emotionally moreover, not looking for the Biblical answer to the question.

 

[JisaL]

^^

Do you know what blind faith is?

Stupid? But seriously, the point of my post was not to say that I don't believe because of a lack of evidence and my own lack of blind faith, which is true, but to comment more on the original post's point which was to say I wouldn't follow the bible or christian doctrines as they are for moral reasons. As I don't see them to be generally good when they stipulate that homosexuals will burn purely because they are gay, anyone who doesn't follow jesus will burn, purely because they have a differing faith, and this god demands that I accept such a thing and be his servant now and for all eternity.

 

[Ramon]

Stupid? But seriously, the point of my post was not to say that I don't believe because of a lack of evidence and my own lack of blind faith, which is true, but to comment more on the original post's point which was to say I wouldn't follow the bible or christian doctrines as they are for moral reasons. As I don't see them to be generally good when they stipulate that homosexuals will burn purely because they are gay, anyone who doesn't follow jesus will burn, purely because they have a differing faith, and this god demands that I accept such a thing and be his servant now and for all eternity.

You are calling God unjust, and you must take that up with him in judgement day. But God is not like wicked men who presuppose that they are okay as long as they corrupt themselves. And now that saying is come true that because people did not like to retain the knowledge of God, God gave them up to their lusts to corrupt themselves, doing the things that are not convenient.

Yes, all homosexuals and all liars, all thieves, all adulterers, all gossipers, and all men who do all these sorts of evil, filling themselves with sin to death WILL HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE OF FIRE!!

God is just, but where there is grace there was, before, repentance. SO REPENT! Because the Lord is coming soon. He will not tolerate as much as evil men do. May Jesus bless you.

 

[JisaL]

You are calling God unjust, and you must take that up with him in judgement day. But God is not like wicked men who presuppose that they are okay as long as they corrupt themselves. And now that saying is come true that because people did not like to retain the knowledge of God, God gave them up to their lusts to corrupt themselves, doing the things that are not convenient.

Yes, all homosexuals and all liars, all thieves, all adulterers, all gossipers, and all men who do all these sorts of evil, filling themselves with sin to death WILL HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE OF FIRE!!

God is just, but where there is grace there was, before, repentance. SO REPENT! Because the Lord is coming soon. He will not tolerate as much as evil men do. May Jesus bless you.

Oh, you used exclamation points and the caps lock button. Now I have to agree with you. Have you ever spoken with a gay person? Been friends with one? The writings of an ancient text made by racist and sexist men should not determine what we do today. Least of all when they spread teaching of baseless hate.

I know a lot of christians who don't take things like this literally, some who are even pro-choice. But they seem to be the minority here and in many places I've been.

So I ask you, why do you think homosexuals desereve eternal suffering? Are they not human too? Did they not have mothers who cradled them when they were babies? Did they not cry why they fell on the playground as children? Did they not not feel the joy of first love or the pain when it was lost? If asked, will they not tell you their fears, their favorite foods, what sports they like? They laugh with friends, cry when sad, and love like any other.

Some religious people question why atheists like me don't just let them be, after all we live in an age of enlightenment and general freedoms (at least compared to the past.) And we would, gladly, if the majority, at least where I live (U.S.) wasn't begging for a time of persecution, discrimination, and rampant ignorance of knowledge and science.

I feel my cause is as just as any.

 

[lightbliss]

Well, I was trying to discern why you mentioned blind faith, as though, since we Christians believe in God, we must have blind faith. Blind faith is belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination.

What makes you think we don't understand what we believe in? Some don't but others do. Is it because if a person, who most likely doesn't have understanding of the Bible nor faith in God, thinks that some things that are mentioned in the Bible are wrong because they believe them to be wrong, Christians must be mindless?

Have you ever impartiality read the Bible in its entirety?

 

[JisaL]

Well, I was trying to discern why you mentioned blind faith, as though, since we Christians believe in God, we must have blind faith. Blind faith is belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination.

What makes you think we don't understand what we believe in? Some don't but others do. Is it because if a person, who most likely doesn't have understanding of the Bible nor faith in God, thinks that some things that are mentioned in the Bible are wrong because they believe them to be wrong, Christians must be mindless?

Have you ever impartiality read the Bible in its entirety?

I have, some parts are very poetic and beautiful. Other parts are terrifying. It was no more influential on my life than any other work of fiction. A little less so in fact.

And I don't necessarily hold a position that you don't understand what you believe in. I never said that. I'm saying that taking literal teachings from what you believe in, the bible, is offensive to me when they condemn good people and promote ignorance and baseless discrimination.

 

[JisaL]

Well, I was trying to discern why you mentioned blind faith, as though, since we Christians believe in God, we must have blind faith. Blind faith is belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination.

What makes you think we don't understand what we believe in? Some don't but others do. Is it because if a person, who most likely doesn't have understanding of the Bible nor faith in God, thinks that some things that are mentioned in the Bible are wrong because they believe them to be wrong, Christians must be mindless?

Have you ever impartiality read the Bible in its entirety?

Oh, and the blind faith thing is another discussion for a separate topic. I see it as blind faith, I have my many reasons, I'm sure other people, especially here, have their reasons as to why they feel it is not blind. But the topic at hand pertains to a separate matter. I just mentioned blind faith in passing.

 

[mpaper345]

God said all sin is unrighteousness,so no one has an excuse.

God said all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,so there is no excuse.

God said there is none that does good,no not one,so there is no excuse.

God said our righteousness is as filthy rags,so there is no excuse.

God commands everyone to repent,so there is no excuse.

God says what will you do in the day of visitation,so God touches everybody to follow Him,so there is no excuse.

The Bible says creation testifies that there is a God,and His attributes,by the things made,so they are without excuse.
Creation testifies by the things made,that God is intelligent,powerful,loving,and good,for God has given us food,clothing,and shelter.
Since creation testifies that there is a God who is loving,and good,and it would make Him in charge,then people should strive to be loving towards people,and to do good.

The Bible says our conscience bears witness of what is good,so there is no excuse.

Jesus said if He did not come,people would have a cloke for their sin,but since He came and pointed out how to represent goodness,there is no cloke for their sin,so there is no excuse.

God said there is a way that seems right to a person,but in the end it leads to death,because they are without God.

King Solomon said the whole duty of man is to obey God and follow His commandments,and everything else is not a profit.

The truth that some people are basically good,that don't follow God,that some people try to defend,is not true for God said that there is none that does good,no not one.

The people that reject the word of God,both Old Testament and New Testament,that heard it adequately,will be lost.

The people who heard the word of God and obeyed,but went back to the world,not representing goodness,will be lost.

The people who heard the word of God,but followed it according to their own belief,not representing goodness,will be lost.

The people who never heard the word of God,they will be judged by their conscience for it bears witness of good and bad,and their belief in a God for creation testifies there is a God.

The people who never heard the word of God,but did not want to represent goodness,will be lost.

The people who never heard the word of God,but strived to do good,asking God for forgiveness if they do wrong,because creation testifies there is a God,should make it,but not until after the millennial reign of Christ.

The people who never heard the word of God,if they strive to do good,but never ask for forgiveness when they do wrong,will be lost.

 

[lightbliss]

Okay, I understand.

There are a few things that I don't necessarily agree with but that doesn't mean that they are baseless. Do I agree with them? No. I can see the logic behind them? Yes.

They only create ignorance and discrimination when we don't understand the whole Word of God or when we want to bend it to suit our needs (if you haven't seen, many people do this) or discard it because it's not what we want (many people also do this).

The Bible states that we are to test every spirit. So, if we're not sure about something or if we have doubt or if we want more insight, we are to search it out. The Bible also states that as the children of God, we perish for our lack of knowledge.

The Bible also states that we are to love the sinner but not the sin. This means that, while I don't tolerate some things that people do, it doesn't mean that I am going to bash them or declare that they are going to Hell; that's not my call. As we reach others, we are called to do it in a compassionate way.

What you see around you is the result of personal interpretations of the Bible. When we discriminate, we are going against what God wants of us. So no, the Bible doesn't promote discrimination nor ignorance, it speaks against it.

I'd like to say that the Bible makes these things clear but apparently it doesn't (although it does. I know interpretation comes into play but these things aren't cryptic; this is general and not to you specifically).

 

[JisaL]

Okay, I understand.

There are a few things that I don't necessarily agree with but that doesn't mean that they are baseless. Do I agree with them? No. I can see the logic behind them? Yes.

They only create ignorance and discrimination when we don't understand the whole Word of God or when we want to bend it to suit our needs (if you haven't seen, many people do this) or discard it because it's not what we want (many people also do this).

The Bible states that we are to test every spirit. So, if we're not sure about something or if we have doubt or if we want more insight, we are to search it out. The Bible also states that as the children of God, we perish for our lack of knowledge.

The Bible also states that we are to love the sinner but not the sin. This means that, while I don't tolerate some things that people do, it doesn't mean that I am going to bash them or declare that they are going to Hell; that's not my call. As we reach others, we are called to do it in a compassionate way.

What you see around you is the result of personal interpretations of the Bible. When we discriminate, we are going against what God wants of us. So no, the Bible doesn't promote discrimination nor ignorance, it speaks against it.

I'd like to say that the Bible makes these things clear but apparently it doesn't (although it does. I know interpretation comes into play but these things aren't cryptic; this is general and not to you specifically).

It seems to all come down to interpretation. I realize many people have different views. But it is those that assert homosexuals and those with different faith are not worthy of the same rights as the "true" children of "god." That is disgusting to me. And I meet just as many christians who want to spread this as those christians who don't.

I can't see how you can say it promotes equality and goodness when it so clearly states, as well as its followers state, that homosexuals are to be damned. Especially because its something that they cannot change, nor should they change it.

 

[Dece81]

It's a shame to see any mind be so closed. While I don't feel indulging in alcohol or sex before marriage to be a "sin," I won't argue about that. What I do find revolting is how anyone can dismiss good people to a "hell" like on the bases of their sexual preference, and things like this, and find it to be justifiable.

Why follow a doctrine that is so cruel? I don't believe in this, or any religion and for good reason (but that's a whole other debate.) Barring all reason, to state that if, however, any of it were to be true I would gladly condemn my soul to defy such a god that would cast away good people for folly reasons. That is what I feel is truly righteous, not blind faith in a malicious master masquerading as a loving deity but only if you submit to be his slave for eternity and accept his bigoted and evil doctrine.

I find it appalling such a belief system is so widespread. No doubt there are many christian sects that are not so cruel and don't follow the literal translation of scripture, for they are thankfully a little more logical than that. However, the bigoted beliefs of people who follow literal scripture are far too widespread for my comfort. For they, among similar systems, are the birthplace of ignorance and war.

I went off on kind of a tangent, but my point is I've not only abandoned "faith" based beliefs for reason and logical understanding through learning and my true passion, a scientific pursuit, but also in part, though admittedly secondary and less so, because I came to the moral realization that a god that demands such evils of me is no god that I would follow.

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