The institution of the real presence of Jesus' body in the eucharist.

[Hearer]

Matthew 26:26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and, praising God, gave thanks and asked Him to bless it to their use, and when He had broken it, He gave it to the disciples and said, Take, eat; this is My body.

The is-ness of the presence of his body depends on taking the Word very seriously. That is why holy communion is not a snack nor a dead memorial.

It recollects and recreates (true memory) the body and blood of Jesus shed for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 26:26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and, praising God, gave thanks and asked Him to bless it to their use, and when He had broken it, He gave it to the disciples and said, Take, eat; this is My body.

The is-ness of the presence of his body depends on taking the Word very seriously. That is why holy communion is not a snack nor a dead memorial.

It recollects and recreates (true memory) the body and blood of Jesus shed for us.

Or we could read John 6 and see which flesh gives eternal life. And which does not.

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

we see a few things.
1. The people did not come to Jesus because they wanted to hear what he had to say, they wanted fed ( literal food )
2. Jesus tells them not to search for food which dies, but search for the food that gives eternal life.
3. Jesus is able to give them that food, Because God the father has given him the seal ( the holy spirit remember back when John Baptized him and the holy spirit entered him )

Continuing...

vs 28 - 29 : Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

1. they asked jesus what works they had to do to receive this eternal life ( or the food that provided it )
2. jesus gave the one answer - BELIEVE IN HIM WHO SENT ME. ( this is the bread. )

continuing...

vs 30. 30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

amazing, they saw Jesus take 5 loaves of bread and two fish, and fed 5000, yet that was not sign enough? they wanted more proof? This shows the worlds thinking and the hardness of their hearts, that even though we may see a miracle, the miracle is not enough. The pharisees saw Jesus raise Lazarus, yet they still where hard hearted.

Jesus answer...

vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

1. Jesus said Moses did not do the work, God did it.
2. God is the one who sent manna, Just Like God is the one who sent Christ.
3. All the israelites had to do was eat the manna to stay alive,, be fed for the day.
4. all we have to do to live spiritually or have eternal life is eat the true bread sent from heaven, which is Christ

the peoples reply...

vs 34 - Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

they wanted that bread of life, or were they still looking for physical bread?

Jesus Reply...

vs 35 - 40 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Notice, it does not say eat bread at the eucharist.. it says come TO HIM, and BELIEVE or have faith in HIM

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

1. Jesus says, " I am the bread of life " I am the one who gives eternal life.
2. He who comes shall never hunger. this is he who hears the words of God and takes them in ( eats them )
3. he who believes will never thirst ( this is he who hears the words and believes. For they are given spiritual water, or the holy spirit )
4. All who the father has promised the son, from adam till the last man living, Will come to jesus, And jesus will save them, He will resurrect them at the last day.
5. This is the bread of life. and the will of the father, " everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

peoples response...

vs 41 - 42 - The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

1. the people were trying to take jesus literally, and not figuratively or spiritually,
2. because they could not understand, they rejected his words as foolishness.

Jesus reply...

vs 44 - 51 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

1. remember before Jesus said eternal life was given if they trusted the god of heaven who sent Jesus, He also said eternal life came from those who came to him and believed in him
2, now he confuses them even more,which hardens their hearts even more, and the ones who will be left will be the ones who truly believe.
3. the people who come to Christ are taught by God the father, it is he who gives them understanding.
4. again he reiterates, he who believes in Christ ( whether them who have seen him, or us who have not ) will have eternal life.
5. He again says, " I am the bread of life " and states a fact, the people who ate the manna are physically dead, the people who eat the spiritual life, will live eternally in spiritual terms,, they will still die, so Jesus is not talking in physical, but spiritual terms.
6. Jesus tells exactly what the bread is. His death on the cross, For it is his death burial and ressurection that has paid the price god demands from us, he took the penalty for us, and paid the debt we owe god..Again, he is talking spiritually not physically..

peoples response...

vs 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

1. Again the people are confused, they are trying to understand what jesus saying as physical not spiritual. just like when they tried to take jesus physical body when he said he is the bread from heaven, ( speaking spiritually)

Jesus reply.

vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

1. Again speaking spiritually here, jesus comes back at them saying unless we eat of his body and drink his blood, we shall not see life ( eternaly or spiritually )
2. Again the people, thinking literally and not spiritually, were offended, thinking Jesus meant to literally eat his Physical flesh and drink his Physical blood.

Even some disciples are offended..

vs 60 - 60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

Jesus reply...

vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

1. Jesus reafirms that it is the spirit who gives life, Again trying to show them that it is spiritual in nature.
2. He says that the flesh profits nothing. the literal interpretation of Jesus being bread, and we have to literally eat him is no better than eating the spiritual manna, Listen to what he is saying spiritually. not taking it literally.

continuing...

vs 64 - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

1, due to their lack of belief, or hard hearts, many walked away because of their misinterpretation.
2. One, who stays now, still does not believe but he will leave before it is over ( judas)

Jesus response to those who are left...

vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

1. Peter responds that he knws what Christ meant by the bread, the flesh and the blood. "You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God
2. It is the words of Christ, and who he is and what he is going to do that is the bread of life. Not the physical body and blood.
3. Note also later after christs death, peter confirms this message, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" even after he denies christ.. Peter understands totaly that it is the words of Christ, and what he did in our place that is the bread of life, And is the bread which gives eternal life.
4. Jesus confirms here, That it was him who chose them ( drew them out ) and later, when Peter re-replys these remarks remembering this day, jesus confirms by saying it is upon that belief, it is upon that bread of life, it is upon that rock that his church will be built on. Again speaking spiritually ( bread ) and not literally ( peter ) yet that is another subject so will stop here.

Either way. NO MENTION OF CONTINUED TAKING ANYTHING. or the EUCHARIST

 

[Hearer]

1) why do you take as implied thaat Jesus is "just" speaking spiritually when he is adamant and emphatic that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood.

2) The bread of the feeding of the multiude is not the same as the institution of the eucharist, where Jesus says emphatically that the bread is his body. The two feedings are different to make the point that we should not feed on bread alone but on every Word sent by God; and John says Jesus himself is the Word. Which gets back to eating him and his literal flesh not just his words.

3) Jesus in instituting the eucharist makes provision for us to eat his real flesh, the Word, when he says take eat this is my body. Then when we do it in memorial of him we are eating his true flesh, the Word.

Otherwise how is it possble to eat Jesus and the Word? Especially because he is not edible just in his words but he is the Word itself and we need somehow to eat him.

Jesus himself is the eternal word. It is him we must eat. Jesus through his spirit makes this possible by being emphatic in his teaching that the bread of the supper is his body which the Spirit makes different to mundane bread.

Because in a sense oyu are right, to eat the ordinary bread would be going after the world. But eating the real presence of Jesus in the eucharist is eating the Word, as John said: 1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [b]Himself.(A) because Jesus said:

Matthew 4:4
But He replied, It has been written, Man shall not live and be upheld and sustained by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.

Jesus himself being the Word of God sent by God. It is by him that we shall live by eating him (not his words)

To believe otherwise is to minimize the significance of the gospel and the power of the words of Jesus which you obviously value.

 

[mpaper345]

The bread and the wine,as being Jesus' body and blood,are not to be taken literally,but Jesus said do this in remembrance of Me,a spiritual thing.

The Bible says that Jesus shed His blood to take away sins once for all.

To say that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood of Jesus,is to say it is a mini sacrifice,which the sacrifice was only once.

 

[Hearer]

The bread and the wine,as being Jesus' body and blood,are not to be taken literally,but Jesus said do this in remembrance of Me,a spiritual thing.

The Bible says that Jesus shed His blood to take away sins once for all.

To say that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood of Jesus,is to say it is a mini sacrifice,which the sacrifice was only once.

Hi

you are right it happened only once but spiritually (through the holy spirit and the words of Christ) we are able to recreate and recollect the one eternal sacrifice.

Though there was one sacrifice we can eternally reconstitue it so that we are able to do as Jesus commanded and so eat his flesh and drink his blood.

Jesus in his grace commands this and makes it possible through the eucharist.

Otherwise Jesus is some woolly mouthed speaker who just makes shocking claims for the sake of being difficult.

Jesus said we must eat every word of God and by this, like John desribes, we are to eat the Word of God whom is Jesus himself.

We cannot get away from this command to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

We have to look for God's grace to find out how we can do this and Jesus provided by institituting the eucharist. This is completely scrtiptural and takes the words of Jesus very seriously.

 

[Scotth1960]

Matthew 26:26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and, praising God, gave thanks and asked Him to bless it to their use, and when He had broken it, He gave it to the disciples and said, Take, eat; this is My body.

The is-ness of the presence of his body depends on taking the Word very seriously. That is why holy communion is not a snack nor a dead memorial.

It recollects and recreates (true memory) the body and blood of Jesus shed for us.

Dear Hearer,
Amen. Come, LORD Jesus. In Erie, PA Scott

 

[Scotth1960]

The bread and the wine,as being Jesus' body and blood,are not to be taken literally,but Jesus said do this in remembrance of Me,a spiritual thing.

The Bible says that Jesus shed His blood to take away sins once for all.

To say that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood of Jesus,is to say it is a mini sacrifice,which the sacrifice was only once.

Dear mpaper, So where does Matthew 26:26 say that it is not literally the body and blood of Christ? Does the Bible say that "is" means "is sort of life", but "is not literally" "IS"?
Why do you not take Christ at His Word? Is it like William Jefferson Clinton, a proven liar, says, "It depends upon what the meaning of "IS" is"? That is what it sounds like to me. Arguing against a normal reading of the Word "is". When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life", did He mean He is like "the way", but is not actually the way, or not actually the truth, or not actually the life? Can't Christ be taken at His word? If not, why not? ISTM, people who try to second guess Christ in Scripture reveal their own skepticism. This is nominalism, and it's a philosophical error that is the basis of Protestantism. And private interpretation of the Scriptures. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington May 2011 AD
PS We cannot hope to understand the mystery of the Eucharist. We need only believe Christ is literally there, spiritually, physically, and in Truth. Not merely symbolic or a mere memorial, but the real presence of Jesus Christ Himself in His body and His blood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bread and the wine,as being Jesus' body and blood,are not to be taken literally,but Jesus said do this in remembrance of Me,a spiritual thing.

The Bible says that Jesus shed His blood to take away sins once for all.

To say that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood of Jesus,is to say it is a mini sacrifice,which the sacrifice was only once.

You got it.

In john 6, he said don't eat food which dies, and you have to eat again, Eat food you can take once and never hunger or thirst again. And gives eternal life to all who eats.

In matt. Jesus said take often in remembrance of me, and never made any of the promises he made in John 6. Eternal life in never associated with the Lords table

These are not the same flesh and blood

 

[kenneth2816]

Roman Catholic doctine of transubstantiation is just whack. we do not consume the literal actual flesh and blood of Christ.

 

[Hearer]

Roman Catholic doctine of transubstantiation is just whack. we do not consume the literal actual flesh and blood of Christ.

Then, we cannot fulfil one of Jesus earnest commandments, to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Jesus was thus a liar and did not allow for people to benefit from God's Word and his flesh.

No wonder protestants remain sitting when the gospel is read, because they do not take the words of Jesus seriously, but only take it as far as personal material benefit is concerned eating whatever they will rather than what the Lord has expressly commanded.

There is no way we can get away from having to consume the actual flesh and drink the very blood of Jesus and there is no way we can get away from having to have Jesus really present to us in the bread and wine.

 

[Meridoc]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry for laughing but you realize your talking about canabalism, LOL!!! Jesus did not suggest we should eat of his literal flesh man. The bible says we do the lord's supper in "remembrance" which mean it is a sybolic eating of unleavened bread and wine as a rememberance/reminder of the sacrifice he made for us.

 

[Hearer]

52Then the Jews angrily contended with one another, saying, How is He able to give us His flesh to eat?

53And Jesus said to them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood [unless you appropriate His life and the saving merit of His blood].
54He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood has (possesses now) eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
55For My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink.
56He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.
57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live by (through, because of) the Father, even so whoever continues to feed on Me [whoever takes Me for his food and is nourished by Me] shall [in his turn] live through and because of Me.
58This is the Bread that came down from heaven. It is not like the manna which our forefathers ate, and yet died; he who takes this Bread for his food shall live forever.
59He said these things in a synagogue while He was teaching at Capernaum.
60When His disciples heard this, many of them said, This is a hard and difficult and strange saying (an offensive and unbearable message). Who can stand to hear it? [Who can be expected to listen to such teaching?] 61But Jesus, knowing within Himself that His disciples were complaining and protesting and grumbling about it, said to them: Is this a stumbling block and an offense to you? [Does this upset and displease and shock and scandalize you?]

 

[Hearer]

Is this speech not Jesus at his most solemn. serious and convicted and is not your doubt about its solemnity just the same as the unbelieving Jews?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is this speech not Jesus at his most solemn. serious and convicted and is not your doubt about its solemnity just the same as the unbelieving Jews?

Read the whole chapter. Not just a few verses. Why have you not responded to how I took the whole chapter apart?

The unbelieving left because they thought Jesus was talking literally. Others because they wanted a free handout. The ones who state understood. Peter even showed by declaring Jesus was the Christ (messiah)

 

[Hearer]

Read the whole chapter. Not just a few verses. Why have you not responded to how I took the whole chapter apart?

The unbelieving left because they thought Jesus was talking literally. Others because they wanted a free handout. The ones who state understood. Peter even showed by declaring Jesus was the Christ (messiah)

I have already responded. We are to eat the Word made flesh, for we live not on bread alone but every word that proceeds from God. This means we have to consume Jesus himself as the Word. We cannot get away from having to eat Jesus as the Word made flesh. The only way this possible is by what Jesus provided when he instituted the eucharist by declaring the bread and wine to be his body and blood.

This differs from the bread fed to the multiitudes because there after Jesus was teaching against worldliness again.

Nowwhere do we see Jesus so solemly declaring the truth. We cannot spiritualize everything that Jesus so solemly said otherwise he did not really come in the flesh nor really die as he said he must and as the scriptures declare!

That is heresy.

 

[dscherck]

Roman Catholic doctine of transubstantiation is just whack. we do not consume the literal actual flesh and blood of Christ.

The Eastern Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox also believe the same. And the Scripture sure is quite clear that Our Lord says it IS His Flesh. Seeing as He is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, I for one have no problem with the idea that He can turn bread and wine into His Flesh and His Blood.

 

[dscherck]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry for laughing but you realize your talking about canabalism, LOL!!! Jesus did not suggest we should eat of his literal flesh man. The bible says we do the lord's supper in "remembrance" which mean it is a sybolic eating of unleavened bread and wine as a rememberance/reminder of the sacrifice he made for us.

Actually, if you study the Scriptures quite carefully, it's quite clear He is going out of His way to emphasize the literalness of His statements. you really have to twist the Scriptures to interpret it otherwise.

The word "remembrance" can be more accurately translated as "do this as my memorial sacrifice". A sacrifice must have something to sacrifice, in this case, Our Lord's LITERAL Body and Blood.

 

[dscherck]

Read the whole chapter. Not just a few verses. Why have you not responded to how I took the whole chapter apart?

The unbelieving left because they thought Jesus was talking literally. Others because they wanted a free handout. The ones who state understood. Peter even showed by declaring Jesus was the Christ (messiah)

The unbelieving left because they couldn't accept this "hard teaching" that one must LITERALLY eat His Flesh and His Blood. The apostles who stayed accepted His word, even though it was a hard teachings because the Holy Spirit allows them to accept this hard teaching. It is only through the grace of the Holy Spirit that we can accept this Truth. Our fleshly minds profit us nothing, but with the grace of the Spirit, we can accept His teachings that are Spirit and Life.

 

[kenneth2816]

Then, we cannot fulfil one of Jesus earnest commandments, to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Jesus was thus a liar and did not allow for people to benefit from God's Word and his flesh.

No wonder protestants remain sitting when the gospel is read, because they do not take the words of Jesus seriously, but only take it as far as personal material benefit is concerned eating whatever they will rather than what the Lord has expressly commanded.

There is no way we can get away from having to consume the actual flesh and drink the very blood of Jesus and there is no way we can get away from having to have Jesus really present to us in the bread and wine.

Thanks for your response. In your haste of condemnation, please do not use ME to bash Protestants.

 

[kenneth2816]

The Eastern Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox also believe the same. And the Scripture sure is quite clear that Our Lord says it IS His Flesh. Seeing as He is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, I for one have no problem with the idea that He can turn bread and wine into His Flesh and His Blood.

Of course he could, no question. but in order for that doctrine to be true, he would habve had to do so at the Last Supper. Do you think the disciples literally atew his flesh pre crucifiaxion?
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