What false doctrines after being saved will send you to hell?

thefightinglamb · May 13, 2009

So I have read a lot from people who believe they are always saved that they then go on to warn that 'if you believe in a certain doctrine you are going to hell.' For example, if you believe you have to live a holy life after you are saved, then you believe in works and are destined for hell unless you repent.

This seems to be a contradiction...

Some people are saying that "if you insist in continuing a life in sin after being saved then your salvation is of no worth and you will be condemned."

Either both sides are saying the same thing, or those who believe in some false doctrine are not 'sinning' or they are. For in one they believe the false doctrine to be 'in your works' and this to be a sin that will send you to hell even after being saved; and for others it seems to be 'insisting on in living in sin in general'...it seems the difference is just in what sin you cannot live in after accepting Christ, unless I am wrong.

I was also thinking about what it means for salvation to be free, meaning not based on works but solely on Christ's work, which both sides agree on...I think the confusion comes down to this analogy...If someone was giving free lessons for the piano, you could say 'they are not free, I have to work when I go in order to learn to play the piano' or you could say 'they are free, I am paying nothing even though I am still going to have to work to play the piano.'

But if you don't go and don't work you won't get free lessons.

God bless, and I meant this email to unify and bring agreements between the opposing views

tony the lesser

MahogonySnail · May 13, 2009

A look at scripture might be handy to see which doctrines may send a person to hell.
Only those doctrines which are contrary to the Gospel. But what is the Gospel.

The Gospel was not, "believe in Jesus and you will be saved, you get eternal life for ever and can never lose it". The Gospel is the first part, without that there is no salvation, the second part "and can never lose it" is one doctrinal interpretation and does not send anyone to hell.

Having the right Gospel is no guarantee of salvation either. There are people with the right doctrine going to hell, but people with wrong doctrine going to heaven, I believe that. Provided that doctrine is still within the confines of the Gospel.

Salvation is a free gift but like any gift, you have to receive it, open it, and keep it. Like any gift, you can reject it, deny it, despite it, refuse it, waste it, trample on it, forget it, misplace it, or give it to someone else. At Christmas sometimes I throw a gift out if I don't like it, or sometimes I keep it. Same thing really.

watchmen · May 13, 2009

Many can, not that they have to. Like OSAS believing it will not send you to Hell, but the application of it in your life will.

roaringkitten · May 13, 2009

So I have read a lot from people who believe they are always saved that they then go on to warn that 'if you believe in a certain doctrine you are going to hell.' For example, if you believe you have to live a holy life after you are saved, then you believe in works and are destined for hell unless you repent.

No where have I said that if you are saved and then believe a false doctrine you will go to hell(maybe someone else said that). There a multitudes of churches that teach salvation is found through a commitment to Christ(Lordship salvation). Even worse, churches that dont even preach against sin. You can commit yourself to Christ all you want, but if you were "saved"(not really saved, but you though you were) by trusting partly in your works, you are dead in your sins(Romans 11:6). It cant be partly by works and partly Christ. So bunches and bunches of professed converts are coming forward thinking their commitment to Christ is saving them. They have been deceived, and many of them today think they are saved. False preachers put the cart before the horse. The commitments to holy living come AS a Christian, not as a prerequisite to being saved(Ephesians 2:10; 4:1, Romans 12:1-2, 2 Corinthians 5:15). That view IS Biblical because our salvation isnt dependant on our Godly living, but by the merits of Christ! No where have I said anyone has a license to sin!

I get the feeling many professed Christians either dont understand grace very well(but are Christians-at one point they did hold to sound doctrine), or who are not really Christians but think they are(never trusted Jesus soley for salvation). I have to be safe and assume that such testimonies may in fact reveal that they are not saved because their testimony declares they aren't believing a central truth to God's Word(Isaiah 8:20).

MahogonySnail · May 13, 2009

Only if it's applied wrongly. Cliches are probably the biggest danger to Christianity. "Saved by grace alone" is a cliche, thrown about often. It doesn't tell the whole story. Repeat it enough times we might fall into the trap of thinking it's ok to sin because we're under grace. Another one is "sinner saved by grace". The trap is to consider yourself a sinner despite being bought by the blood of Christ. Thinking you are a sinner may lead you to commit sin, or when you do sin, justify it by saying you are just a sinner saved by grace. The proper application of this cliche is placed on the fact we are saved by grace, and were sinners, not are sinners, and hopefully not will be sinners in the future.

At the end of the day, there will be a guy in shiny white clothes with a big beard who will tell you whether you get to enter into heaven or not. He won't be giving you a written test or exam to check your doctrinal competency or whether you followed the teaching of John Calvin for example, or not. But if anyone can point me to the apostle Paul's discourse and theological studies on why not believing OSAS is wrong and will send you to hell I'd like to read it.

Thaddaeus · May 14, 2009

Re: What false doctrines after being saved will send you to hell? this is one of the most unbibical statement I have heard in here

Ro 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Ro 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.Ro 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:Ro 8:4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Ro 8:5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
if you are saved you ain't going to hell, He saved us from Hell!!!!!!!!

thefightinglamb · May 14, 2009

So I can believe in what a lot of people call my own works after being saved and still be saved, but if I believed it before or when I first thought I was saved then I am not saved,seems kind of awkward...

You can't believe in hinduism, buddism, or any of the other strange or nihilistic type of stuff when you first come to Christ...but if you truly come to Christ, you can let yourself be deceived for it does not matter...it just seems kind of wierd.

This brings up an interesting thought for another post...
God bless
tony

NoahsMom · May 14, 2009

IF YOU ARE TRULEY BORN AGAIN, AND LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIND AND SOUL, AND YOU LOOK TO HIM FOR EVERYTHING, YOU STUDY AND SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED, WOULDNT YOU THINK IT WOULD BE KINDA HARD TO FALL FOR A FALSE DOCTRINE?

MahogonySnail · May 14, 2009

There is both old testament and new testament scriptures showing the possibility of being deceived:

Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
There would be no warnings to us, if it were not possible. Even Christ warned His own disciples against deception in Luke 21:8. There's no guarantee against deception except by "taking heed to yourselves". There is no guarantee that a christian is somehow immune from being deceived, or that the consequences of being deceived are somehow trivial - there is a real possibility that deception if bad enough, can lead to loss of faith or perhaps cause another person to lose faith or prevent them from coming to Christ. And in fact I've known of a number of christians who have become deceived in one way or another, in matter of doctrine. Wives deceiving their husbands when the wife goes off track, or vice versa, leading to a marriage breakup. Or a church pastor becomes controlling, manipulative, greedy and is then in charge of a cult.

This fairly modern idea of "simply believe in Jesus, and everything willl be alright and you'll get to heaven when you die somehow in the future" and that's it, is not really everything that scripture teaches. This is really a spiritual version of the prosperity gospel or health and wealth movement, it's a "spiritual prosperity gospel. " One of the lies of satan is to convince people that they cannot ever be deceived, so then after they are convinced of that fact, he can feed them subtle lies and gradually lead them from the truth. But because they believe themself to never be in error, they always think they are right, and they are not able to be corrected or accountable to other christians for their doctrine. If they find enough like-minded believers then they may form what they consider themselves to be a "remnant", i.e. a special group within christianity who knows the truth, whereas everyone else is in error. But a way to avoid becoming like this is to take heed to ourselves, scripture also teaches us to examine ourselves (2 Cor 13:5), and avoid disassociating with other christians or let our own doctrine (if it varies from what is generally acceptable in christianity) be scrutinized.

LynnJ · May 14, 2009

NoahsMom said:

True, and that is what we should all strive for because there will be those who try to deceive the very elect of Christ:

Matt. 24:23-25 - At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.

Whether or not that deception is possible appears to depend upon how closely we follow the Lord and how watchful we are against the enemy's schemes, as Jesus exhorted his disciples:

Luke 21:8-9 - He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."

eric51 · May 14, 2009

thefightinglamb said:

________________________________________

Being saved in the sense that one has been irrevocably judged while still alive for eternal life is a gross heresy. It simply doesn't exist in Christian theology.

Judgment is based on one's LIFE RECORD. If we die JUSTIFIED in God's eyes then we may hope for eternal life. We are justified when our behavior, our lives, at a certain time, are pleasing to God. We may lose justification by bad decisions. If so, we must repent to regain justification. The cycle is a life cycle. Justification is a JOURNEY OF FAITH THROUGHOUT one's life.

Salvation is free. Jesus' Passion and Death was an expiation to the Father. The Father had not been able to see His way to bestowing eternal life on imperfect humanity. The Father is perfect and believes in perfect justice. Allowing imperfection into heaven would be a violation of that justice under the Law.The Law is inflexible. One is either innocent or guilty under the Law. The slightest offense brings us a judgment of death. Jesus' Passion and Resurrection allowed the Father to substitute GRACE for Law. Under Grace the Father can be merciful in His judgement of us and make allowance for our failings as long as He judges we tried to be good.

The "works of the Law" that Paul refers to concern Mosaic rituals. Paul was NOT referring to good works done out of God's GRACE. Paul told the Jews that a mere ministerial performance of these works would not make them good with God insofar as their efforts did not come from the heart; did not come from Grace. Only works that come from Grace would be appealing to God. God is not an employer, Paul said, He does not owe any one wages when they carry out a work. God owes us nothing, Paul admonished the Jews. So, better be good and do good things from your heart, not because you are trying to bribe God.

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

MahogonySnail · May 14, 2009

No, Eric, justification is the moment a person believes on Christ. Abraham was justified the moment he believed God's promise. So are we. It is nothing to do with us being pleasing to God, but with Christ being pleasing to God. In Christ we too are pleasing to God. That is Christianity, anything contrary to that is not the Christian message. But more a message of works.

eric51 · May 14, 2009

John 3:16 - justification is ongoing, not a one-time event. God so loved (past) the world, that He gave (past) His only Son, that whoever believes (ongoing) in Him may have eternal life. The word “believes” is “pisteuo” in Greek which necessarily includes obedience throughout one’s life. This is proved by 1 Peter 2:7-8 which also uses “pisteuo” (to obey) and “apitheo” (to disobey). The same word “pisteuo” is used in many other verses about “believing in Christ” such as John 3:36; 5:24; Rom. 4:24; 10:9-10; cf. Rom. 1:5,16; 6:17; 16:26; 1 John 5:13 (often used by Protestants to support their “faith alone” theology). To “believe” means to “obey” throughout one’s life; it is not a one-time acceptance of Jesus as Savior.

Your example of Abraham does not hold water:
Gen. 12:1-4 – Abram is justified here, as God promises to make his name great and bless the families of the earth through his seed. Abram is justified by his faith in God. Heb. 11:8-10 confirms Abraham's justification occurred here, before Gen. 15:6 (later) by referring to Gen. 12, not Gen. 15. Abraham's justification increased over time because justification is not a one-time event, but an ongoing process of growing in holiness.

Gen. 14:19, 22-23 - Abram is also justified here, by being blessed by the priest-king Melchizedek. Melchizedek calls Abram blessed and Abram gives him a tenth of everything.

Gen. 15:6 – Abram is further justified here, as God promises him that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. Because the Scripture says, “He believed the Lord, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness,” Protestants often say this was Abram’s initial justification, and cite Rom 4:2 to prove Abram was justified by his faith. Yes, it is true Abram was justified by his faith, but he was justified 25 years earlier in Gen. 12:1-4, as Heb. 11:8-10 proves.

Gen. 22:1-18 – Abraham is further justified here, this time by works, when he offered his son Isaac as a sacrifice to God. James 2:21 proves this as James writes, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” James then confirms this by writing, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (James 2:23). These verses prove that justification before God is an on-going process, not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, and is accomplished by faith and works.

Good Nite.

Eric

MahogonySnail · May 15, 2009

There is no indication whatsoever from abraham that his righteousness somehow "grew". You are either righteous or you aren't, justified or you aren't. Likewise, a person does not grow to be more holy. There is no such thing as being half or three quarters holy, you are either holy or you aren't. Yes the faith will be tested and works are required to show our faith but only prove our faith is genuine. Yet scripture still says Abraham was justified the moment he believed (and yes, continued believing) God's promise. This was before abraham was tested to sacrifice Isaac on the altar. You cannot be justified by your own righteousness, that's why Christ came.

RobAndOrMandy · Jul 8, 2009

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

"If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 3:11-14

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Mark 13:13

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." - John 8:31

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." - James 1:12

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." - 2 Peter 2:20-21

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again." - Romans 11:17-23

wisdomseeker · Jul 9, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

peace be to you
This stipulates we must walk in the spirit.It is a condition that must be maintained.If we sin while walking in the spirit we have forgiveness because we dont want to sin anymore but the sin lieth in us"inherent"Always there till death do us part.

Im not disagreeing with you If God says your saved !You are.I am saying also tho the condition must be met to be saved.We must walk in the spirit.

Isreal was God's son and forfitted there inheritance because they worshipped other Gods;
exod;And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
isiah 50
Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Let us learn from the ones before us.
Love God with all you heart,Love your neighber like you love yourself,Honor you mother and father,Stay away from idols

Love a friend in God

RobAndOrMandy · Jul 9, 2009

The question that comes to my mind about the once saved always saved philosophy is wouldn't that be a little too easy? I mean who wouldnt make it to heaven. Its kinda like your Dad said if it sounds to good to be true it probaly is. Its sounds like a tithe keeper, the whole dont want to step on no ones toes they might leave and I might not be able to afford my three cars anymore kinda preaching. Just callen it like I see it, I dont mean to offend just want to give a little food for thought.

MahogonySnail · Jul 9, 2009

I think of it like this...you might tell your friend not to drink and drive, in case they crash and kill themselves, or another. You might tell your child not to touch the hot plate, in case they get burnt.

But once you say, don't sin, lose faith, or disobey God, in case you go to hell...

PersonalQuesttions · Jul 9, 2009

Most of this discussion, and the need for this discussion, comes from poor attribution. First, salvation does not = eternal life. Bare with me. Salvation ='s saved from sin. That is, Salvation is being saved from the judgement of past sin, and the necessity of current and future sins.

Allow me to rephrase this as Paul did: Salvation results in Holiness, Holiness leads to eternal life. This is the formula that scriptures give us. To say the formula is Salvation = eternal life is to say X = 3. X may equal three, sure, but it is more true that 1+1+1 =3

So, many of your arguments are incorporationg X=3 but there is no 1 involved... you are forgetting Paul, who wrote Salvation results in Holiness which leads to eternal life.

LASTLY, let us give proper attribution to works... works are explained to us this way.... A workman DESERVES his wages, they are OWED to him. And salvation comes by the GRACE attitude of God toward us, and not by our own works. This is saying exactly this: Salvation comes from God's inclination toward us when we repent, believe in Him and have faith in all that he says, it is not OWED TO US, we do not DESERVE it....

Companion to this is all of the references to SLAVERY by Paul. Paul says that we are SLAVES to Him and to RIGHTOUSNESS and we are taught by Christ that a SLAVE WORKS HARD AS HE IS DEMANDED TOO, but that NOTHING IS OWED TO HIM FOR HIS WORK.

We are DEMANDED to work, we are required to have WORKS< which is the results of obedience. We must even have faith in God BEFORE we are saved, and we must come with this faith to recieve the free gift. Faith includes fidelity as part of it's definition, and fidelity to God is OBEDIENCE to God, and therefore, obedience, belief, and faith are all a part of how we respond to Gof BEFORE we are saved, and in that we DO recieve salvation. Salvation is freedom from sin: Don't you know you DIED to sin, how can you live in it any longer (Rom 6).

So, those that say works are not part of salvation have ENTIRELY missed the point, and are not right in the least iota. They have missed the spirit of it, and they have missed the Word of it, and they teach the doctrines of devils to decieve and destroy.

Do not ever allow anyone to get you to budge the least little bit with a false works doctrine. It will only undermine the truth, and cause you pain and grief on the day we are judged.

[email protected]

MahogonySnail · Jul 9, 2009

I'm pretty sure works are part of salvation because Rev 20:13 says people are judged by works, Rev 12 too, Rev 14:13, Rev 3:2, Rev 2:26, 2:23, Rev 2:19. Jas 2:24-26, Heb 10:24, And there are so many other scriptures.
So Jesus certainly takes out works into account. If they bad, there's punishment (lake of fire or otherwise). If they good, there is reward (eternal life or otherwise). Yet, scripture does teach in Tit 3, about how it's God's grace, not our own works. And that justification is at the moment of belief.

What false doctrines after being saved will send you to hell?

thefightinglamb

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