WHO IS WORTHY TO TAKE THE BOOK?

[Devolution]

Revelation 5
1> And i saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2> And i saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

So God the Father is waiting on His throne for someone OTHER than Himself who might be worthy to take that book He is holding and open it.
Which means that the Father Himself is NOT going to open it, but is waiting for ANOTHER to open it instead.
And that OTHER must be WORTHY.
The Father IS WORTHY, He could open it, but He wants ANOTHER to OPEN IT. Who is worthy is the call? (v2)
So WHOEVER OPENS IT, CAN NOT BE THE FATHER WHO IS OBVIOUSLY WORTHY, and is the ONE who WROTE THE BOOK. BUT INSTEAD ANOTHER who MUST be WORTHY to OPEN AND READ HIS BOOK.
So far we have the Father who is worthy, waiting for another who must be worthy also.
That's 1 (Father) +0 (no man) =1 so far.

3>And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4> And i wept much because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

So the call to open the book went out to men. MEN. But it would seem that so far, no MAN is worthy to open the book. NO MAN so far is worthy to open that book that is in the Fathers right hand.
Again : The Father wrote the book. He is holding the book. He is asking if any man is worthy to open His book and read it. Which means that He is not going to read it Himself. He wrote it. He wants someone else to open His book.
So whoever opens it, can not be the Father, for the Father is looking for SOMEONE ELSE to open His book which He wrote.
And John is weeping because so far, no man is worthy to open it.

5> And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6> And i beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

So a man was found. He is described as a Lion. The Lion symbolically stands for fearlessness, for Kingliness which means royal. And this mans lineage is of David who also was a king. Another man, from the tribe of Judah. Judah being of men also. So this is all about men to whom the call was sent out to...who is worthy to open Gods book? Which MAN?
Now this Lion, now He is described as a Lamb that was slain. He is STANDING in the midst of the throne on which the Father SITS. One is standing, One is sitting. That makes TWO.
And this is the THRONE ROOM, during a PIVOTAL EVENT in all creation, So for such an important event, every dignitary must be present. This is a MIGHTY moment in history. And EVERYONE is present. The Father, the four beasts, the elders, and the Lamb, and the angels which are mentioned soon. EVERYONE IS THERE.
Notice no mention of the Holy Spirit? What could this mean? At such an important moment in time? When EVERYONE is PRESENT, but no Holy Spirit? Maybe the Holy Spirit is not an individual, but something else all together? I mean, why else is He not there for this glorious moment? This epic event? When EVERYONE else is present?
Again : NOW that's 1 (Father) + 1 (Lamb) = TWO.

7> And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat upon the throne.
8> And when He had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9> And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof, for Thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

So the Lamb took the book out of the Father's right hand.
One sitting, One standing. One holding that book, One taking it out of His hand.
Not ONE not THREE but TWO.
And when the Lamb takes the book...the WORTHY ONE is FOUND. And the elders and the four beasts fall at his feet...NOW He is being worshipped. NOW that He took that book, NOW He is IDENTIFIED as the WORTHY ONE. NOW they fall to His feet. NOW. Not before, but AFTER.
Again: The One who wrote this book is obviously WORTHY. That's ONE.
And now ANOTHER comes to take that book and open it. He must be WORTHY too. That's TWO. And still no mention of the Holy Spirit? That would make THREE, but there are only TWO? TWO not three. Not One, but TWO.

10> And hast MADE us unto our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
11> And i beheld, and i heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders, and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.
12> Saying, WORTHY is the LAMB that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.

And what happened when the Lamb was found WORTHY to TAKE that book that the Father held in His right hand? And to OPEN that book?
He RECEIVED POWER, He RECEIVED RICHES, He RECEIVED WISDOM, He RECEIVED STRENGTH, He RECEIVED HONOR, He RECEIVED GLORY, He RECEIVED BLESSING.
Sounds like He was made into something VERY VERY SPECIAL right there and then.
Something like RECEIVING a REWARD.
Something like RECEIVING an INHERITANCE.
Something like being MADE into a GOD (fell down at His feet = WORSHIP).
Something being GIVEN to HIM from ANOTHER.
From the One SITTING on the THRONE who WROTE a BOOK.
Sounds like TWO not ONE, not THREE, but TWO.
Still no Holy Spirit mentioned.
Notice where the kings and priests SHALL reign from? ON THE EARTH...SHALL..Not NOW but SHALL...notice? And all because of the glorious Lamb.

Notice v8 ? The vials with the odours? The PRAYERS of saints? Notice the vials/prayers are mentioned AFTER they fall down at the Lambs feet?
As if this EVENT made it POSSIBLE for those PRAYERS to be RELEASED?
As if God the Father will NOW HEAR THEM?
As though through the Lamb, the Father has made a way for MEN to be REDEEMED to HIM by someone else's SACRIFICE.
Someone NOT HIMSELF.
Someone everyone was looking for? Waiting for? Hoping for? Some MAN?
Someone amongst men who might be WORTHY?
Someone covered in BLOOD which the Father IS NOT COVERED IN?
Can the one being SACRIFICED TO....BE THE SACRIFICE?
One is covered in BLOOD, One IS NOT.
Notice TWO not THREE? TWO not ONE?

FINALLY:

13> And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard i saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto HIM that SITTETH upon the THRONE, AND unto the LAMB for ever and ever.
14> And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that liveth for ever and ever.

All are saying BLESSING unto Him...Honoring Him on the Throne, He who has made all this POSSIBLE.
And HONOR...What a glorious thing He on the Throne has DONE. Let this be recognized.
And GLORY...This is worthy of ETERNAL PRAISE. A true act of LOVE.
And POWER...Who could stop His PLAN? Who could ever stop Him? NONE.
And who is this PRAISE going to?
HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (SITTING)
AND TO THE LAMB (STANDING)
STILL NO HOLY SPIRIT MENTIONED?
TWO NOT THREE.
TWO NOT ONE.
BUT TWO AS ONE.

INTERESTING POINT : Ten thousand TIMES ten thousand TIMES thousands of thousands OF ANGELS.

Since we do not know the exact number of thousands of thousands, we count the MINIMUM number as thousand times a thousand for an estimate..
So 10 000 times 10 000 times 1000 times 1000
That makes 100 TRILLION ANGELS.
That's A LOT.
And a third were cast to the earth.
Does this mean a third of THAT number? THAT number being the control?
IF SO...we don't know...but if so...
thats 33 TRILLION fallen angels.
Divided by say 7 billion humans
That's between 9-10 for every person.
This is by memory, i worked this out years ago...
feel free to correct me if i'm wrong..

 

[wakeup]

Revelation 5
1> And i saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2> And i saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

So God the Father is waiting on His throne for someone OTHER than Himself who might be worthy to take that book He is holding and open it.
Which means that the Father Himself is NOT going to open it, but is waiting for ANOTHER to open it instead.
And that OTHER must be WORTHY.
The Father IS WORTHY, He could open it, but He wants ANOTHER to OPEN IT. Who is worthy is the call? (v2)
So WHOEVER OPENS IT, CAN NOT BE THE FATHER WHO IS OBVIOUSLY WORTHY, and is the ONE who WROTE THE BOOK. BUT INSTEAD ANOTHER who MUST be WORTHY to OPEN AND READ HIS BOOK.
So far we have the Father who is worthy, waiting for another who must be worthy also.
That's 1 (Father) +0 (no man) =1 so far.

3>And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4> And i wept much because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

So the call to open the book went out to men. MEN. But it would seem that so far, no MAN is worthy to open the book. NO MAN so far is worthy to open that book that is in the Fathers right hand.
Again : The Father wrote the book. He is holding the book. He is asking if any man is worthy to open His book and read it. Which means that He is not going to read it Himself. He wrote it. He wants someone else to open His book.
So whoever opens it, can not be the Father, for the Father is looking for SOMEONE ELSE to open His book which He wrote.
And John is weeping because so far, no man is worthy to open it.

5> And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6> And i beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

So a man was found. He is described as a Lion. The Lion symbolically stands for fearlessness, for Kingliness which means royal. And this mans lineage is of David who also was a king. Another man, from the tribe of Judah. Judah being of men also. So this is all about men to whom the call was sent out to...who is worthy to open Gods book? Which MAN?
Now this Lion, now He is described as a Lamb that was slain. He is STANDING in the midst of the throne on which the Father SITS. One is standing, One is sitting. That makes TWO.
And this is the THRONE ROOM, during a PIVOTAL EVENT in all creation, So for such an important event, every dignitary must be present. This is a MIGHTY moment in history. And EVERYONE is present. The Father, the four beasts, the elders, and the Lamb, and the angels which are mentioned soon. EVERYONE IS THERE.
Notice no mention of the Holy Spirit? What could this mean? At such an important moment in time? When EVERYONE is PRESENT, but no Holy Spirit? Maybe the Holy Spirit is not an individual, but something else all together? I mean, why else is He not there for this glorious moment? This epic event? When EVERYONE else is present?
Again : NOW that's 1 (Father) + 1 (Lamb) = TWO.

7> And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat upon the throne.
8> And when He had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9> And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof, for Thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

So the Lamb took the book out of the Father's right hand.
One sitting, One standing. One holding that book, One taking it out of His hand.
Not ONE not THREE but TWO.
And when the Lamb takes the book...the WORTHY ONE is FOUND. And the elders and the four beasts fall at his feet...NOW He is being worshipped. NOW that He took that book, NOW He is IDENTIFIED as the WORTHY ONE. NOW they fall to His feet. NOW. Not before, but AFTER.
Again: The One who wrote this book is obviously WORTHY. That's ONE.
And now ANOTHER comes to take that book and open it. He must be WORTHY too. That's TWO. And still no mention of the Holy Spirit? That would make THREE, but there are only TWO? TWO not three. Not One, but TWO.

10> And hast MADE us unto our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
11> And i beheld, and i heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders, and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.
12> Saying, WORTHY is the LAMB that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.

And what happened when the Lamb was found WORTHY to TAKE that book that the Father held in His right hand? And to OPEN that book?
He RECEIVED POWER, He RECEIVED RICHES, He RECEIVED WISDOM, He RECEIVED STRENGTH, He RECEIVED HONOR, He RECEIVED GLORY, He RECEIVED BLESSING.
Sounds like He was made into something VERY VERY SPECIAL right there and then.
Something like RECEIVING a REWARD.
Something like RECEIVING an INHERITANCE.
Something like being MADE into a GOD (fell down at His feet = WORSHIP).
Something being GIVEN to HIM from ANOTHER.
From the One SITTING on the THRONE who WROTE a BOOK.
Sounds like TWO not ONE, not THREE, but TWO.
Still no Holy Spirit mentioned.
Notice where the kings and priests SHALL reign from? ON THE EARTH...SHALL..Not NOW but SHALL...notice? And all because of the glorious Lamb.

Notice v8 ? The vials with the odours? The PRAYERS of saints? Notice the vials/prayers are mentioned AFTER they fall down at the Lambs feet?
As if this EVENT made it POSSIBLE for those PRAYERS to be RELEASED?
As if God the Father will NOW HEAR THEM?
As though through the Lamb, the Father has made a way for MEN to be REDEEMED to HIM by someone else's SACRIFICE.
Someone NOT HIMSELF.
Someone everyone was looking for? Waiting for? Hoping for? Some MAN?
Someone amongst men who might be WORTHY?
Someone covered in BLOOD which the Father IS NOT COVERED IN?
Can the one being SACRIFICED TO....BE THE SACRIFICE?
One is covered in BLOOD, One IS NOT.
Notice TWO not THREE? TWO not ONE?

FINALLY:

13> And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard i saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto HIM that SITTETH upon the THRONE, AND unto the LAMB for ever and ever.
14> And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that liveth for ever and ever.

All are saying BLESSING unto Him...Honoring Him on the Throne, He who has made all this POSSIBLE.
And HONOR...What a glorious thing He on the Throne has DONE. Let this be recognized.
And GLORY...This is worthy of ETERNAL PRAISE. A true act of LOVE.
And POWER...Who could stop His PLAN? Who could ever stop Him? NONE.
And who is this PRAISE going to?
HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (SITTING)
AND TO THE LAMB (STANDING)
STILL NO HOLY SPIRIT MENTIONED?
TWO NOT THREE.
TWO NOT ONE.
BUT TWO AS ONE.

INTERESTING POINT : Ten thousand TIMES ten thousand TIMES thousands of thousands OF ANGELS.

Since we do not know the exact number of thousands of thousands, we count the MINIMUM number as thousand times a thousand for an estimate..
So 10 000 times 10 000 times 1000 times 1000
That makes 100 TRILLION ANGELS.
That's A LOT.
And a third were cast to the earth.
Does this mean a third of THAT number? THAT number being the control?
IF SO...we don't know...but if so...
thats 33 TRILLION fallen angels.
Divided by say 7 billion humans
That's between 9-10 for every person.
This is by memory, i worked this out years ago...
feel free to correct me if i'm wrong..

This is very good observation, this is truly reading scriptures, notice no mother either.
Thanks devo.

 

[AnandaHya]

mother scripture:

Revelation 12:4-6 (New King James Version)

4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

conjecture that EVERYONE was there, obviously SATAN was not at that council meeting. its like saying well since you didn't attend church that day you don't have a place in Heaven. pssthhhf.

 

[AnandaHya]

Revelation 5

The Lamb Takes the Scroll

1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read[a] the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
6 And I looked, and behold,[c] in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
Worthy Is the Lamb


8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:


“ You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[d] kings[e] and priests to our God;
And we[f] shall reign on the earth.”

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:


“ Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:


“ Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”[g]

14 Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four[h] elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.[i

 

[AnandaHya]

6 And I looked, and behold,[c] in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

hmm no comment on this verse? or the fact that John had to have the Lamb pointed out to him? or the meaning of the seven horns and seven eyes? or ....wait for it ..... THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD sent out into all the earth? still denying the Holy spirit then, hmmmm.....

 

[AnandaHya]

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

oh look the saints made an appearance through their prayers and this verse talks about how our prayers are collected in Heaven, but lets ignore that, doesn't support the point you're trying to make right?

 

[AnandaHya]

You sin and teach false doctrine, you ignore this commandment and make people think that God lies when He COMMANDS people to worship only HIM, by making the count TWO gods instead of ONE GOD. do you think a seven horned and seven eye lamb is literally talking about JESUS Christ? if so recoil these two verses:


14 Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four[h] elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.


Matthew 22:36-38 (New King James Version)

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and great commandment.

James 1:2-8 (New King James Version)

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

the imagery of Heaven and how things work can not be so simplified. In HEAVEN the Father, the Son and the SPIRIT ARE ONE and are thus worshiped as ONE.

 

[Lad]

I just want to add a sidenote here that Jesus is not a lamb, a cute cuddly white fluffy thing... He is infact depicted as a one year old male Ram with horns

 

[AnandaHya]

with seven eyes

 

[Lad]

^yes, but i wasnt just talking about revelation so i omitted that part.

 

[livingbygrace]

We truly do only worship one God, for there is no other true God but one, as Paul says

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols. We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God(true God) but one.
For even if there are so-called gods whether in Heaven or on earth(as indeed there are many gods and many lords)
Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Cor 8:2-6

So we only worship one God as God, the Father.

But we worship Christ as our Lord and Saviour because he died for our sins that we might have a righteousness for Heaven.

And when we worship Christ we worship the divinity of the Father in the son, for it is the Father in the son that makes the son who he is.

 

[Devolution]

We truly do only worship one God, for there is no other true God but one, as Paul says

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols. We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God(true God) but one.
For even if there are so-called gods whether in Heaven or on earth(as indeed there are many gods and many lords)
Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Cor 8:2-6

So we only worship one God as God, the Father.

But we worship Christ as our Lord and Saviour because he died for our sins that we might have a righteousness for Heaven.

And when we worship Christ we worship the divinity of the Father in the son, for it is the Father in the son that makes the son who he is.

EXACTLY. WELL PUT.

God bless.

 

[Lad]

Am i reading this correctly, that you guys are saying the Holy Spirit is not divine?

 

[AnandaHya]

1 John 5:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth:[a] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

I've decided to leave it in God's hands.

Personally I believe JESUS IS GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD and the Father in Heaven is GOD and thus is the GODHEAD that THREE are ONE.



their statements make no sense because according to them "when we worship Christ we worship the divinity of the Father in the son"

well the HOLY SPIRIT is inside all believers should we then worship the "divinity of the Father" in all of us too? sounds like Vedanta Hinduism to me.

Research the concept of ATMAN and you will see similar ideas with a few different words.

 

[zone]

This is what happens when people deplore scholarship.

not to mention the bible itself interprets the symbolic imagery used in Revelation, a little research into the ancient hebrew and hellenistic apocolyptic genres helps reveals not only Revelation, but Daniel and Jeremiah also use the same kind of literary devices.

To attempt a "literal" interpretation of Revelation without understanding that the characters and imagry are both real, symbolic, and spiritual is futile.

trying to interpret any of the Bible by using Revelation as the template is just folly.

but don't we look OH SO SUPER-SPIRITUAL when quoting from it?

 

[zone]

This is very good observation, this is truly reading scriptures

no it isn't.
it's folly, and dangerous...if you are understanding the GodHead or the essentials of the Christian faith based on an infantile approach to a difficult and precisely symbolic genre IN SPITE OF THE WARNING OF CHAPTER 22 your fate is your own fault.

of course, with such a hatred and repulsion for "those university types" who are leading everyone astray, not surprising one would attempt to legitimize their special gnosis by continually referring to symbolic books - did you know millions of people have repeated the same error you are making? some spent their whole lives doing it.

have fun! (but read Rev 22 first - it might mean eternal life or death)

 

[livingbygrace]

1 John 5:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth:[a] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

I've decided to leave it in God's hands.

Personally I believe JESUS IS GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD and the Father in Heaven is GOD and thus is the GODHEAD that THREE are ONE.



their statements make no sense because according to them "when we worship Christ we worship the divinity of the Father in the son"

I thought Trintarians believed that God was three persons. Father, son and Holy Spirit.
Therefore the divinity (or person) of the Father would be worshipped in the son, would that not be correct?

well the HOLY SPIRIT is inside all believers should we then worship the "divinity of the Father" in all of us too? sounds like Vedanta Hinduism to me.

But the FULNESS of the Godhead bodily does not dwell in us as Christians, as the Holy Spirit is not on us in BODILY FORM as He was on Christ when he walked this earth

Research the concept of ATMAN and you will see similar ideas with a few different words.

Jesus said

I and the Father are one

He also said

That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one
John 17:22

So how can we as believers be one?

Can I be you or you me?
No, we remain individual people
But we can be of one heart and one mind in the Spirit. That is the only way we can be one

That they may be one AS we are one

 

[Red33]

The Son is the glory of the Father because He came forth from the Father (Jn 17:8).

The Son is the brightness of His glory and the expressed image of His person (Heb 1:3).

The Son is God manifest in the flesh (1Tim 3:16) and they beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father (Jn 1:14).

The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son (Jn 14:10) and on that basis they are one (Jn 17:11). We are one as they are one, because we are in Christ and Christ is in us (Jn 17:20).

We are not of this world as Christ is not of this world (Jn 17:14) and we are hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3).

The Son is the revelation of the person of God, as the one true God (Jn 17:13).

We can not worship the Father without the Son and we can not worship the Son without the Father, for we worship the Father and the Son for they are one and the same in all things. The Son reveals the Father and without the Son there would be no revelation of the Father (Mt 11:27, Jn 1:18). This is why Jesus told Philip and the disciples, 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father' (Jn 14:7-9), and when you believe upon me, you are not believing upon me but upon the Father that sent me (Jn 12:44,45, 5:24). We can not believe upon the Son without believing upon the Father and we cannot have the Father without the Son.

The Lamb took the book from the right hand of the Father, from the place where Christ sits, at the right hand of God (Col 3:1). The book was given to the Son, the Lamb, who came from the Father and shed His blood for the remission of the sins of the world (1Pt 1:8,19, 1Jn 2:2, Heb 9:22). This book was only to be opened by the Son who had come from the Father as God in the flesh to condemn sin in His flesh (Rom 8:3).

In (Rev 5:13) there was no separate distinction from those people listed in that verse, for they gave the one that sitteth on the throne and unto the Lamb blessing, and honor and glory and power. The Lamb had executed the plan of salvation for all men when He was slain and had shed His blood (Rev 5:6). By virtue of that shed blood He was worthy to take the book and open it. Both the one that sat on the throne and the Lamb received the same blessing, honor, glory and power. There were none present that had been redeemed by that blood who were worthy to take the book, only the Lamb (Rev 5:4). This makes the oneness of the Father and the Son unique and more glorious than those that were redeemed by that blood for none could take the book.

The Son will always be the one, that our eyes behold, who will reveal the Father throughout eternity (Jn 17:24). Satan had a problem with the Son, who had come from the glory of the Father and did everything in His power to stop Him from being the Savior of the world. Satan, having the power of death (Heb 2:14), could not keep the body of Jesus in the grave for on the third day Jesus was resurrected as the Christ and ascended to the glory of the Father to sit at the right hand of God (Jn 17:5, Col 3:1), which as later witnessed to by Stephen when he was being stoned to death in (Acts 7:59).

As believers we are never to separate the Father from the Son nor the Son from the Father because they are one and they are the same in every way. To separate the Son from the Father in any way would deny that the Father not only sent His Son, but was in His Son to be revealed by His Son. The Father did not send His Son to separate the Son from Himself or to reveal Himself separate from the Father.

There is no difference between the Father and the Son and that is what makes their deity and divinity, in and of itself, without likeness or comparison. They are not divided or isolated in their relationship to one another in any way, which includes their essence, their being, their perfection, their holiness, their image, their glory, their throne, their authority and eternal life and all of their attributes. All that God is was in the Son and the Son revealed all that God is in Him and through Him through grace and truth (Jn 1:1-14).

 

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The Son is the glory of the Father because He came forth from the Father (Jn 17:8).

The Son is the brightness of His glory and the expressed image of His person (Heb 1:3).

The Son is God manifest in the flesh (1Tim 3:16) and they beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father (Jn 1:14).

The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son (Jn 14:10) and on that basis they are one (Jn 17:11). We are one as they are one, because we are in Christ and Christ is in us (Jn 17:20).

We are not of this world as Christ is not of this world (Jn 17:14) and we are hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3).

The Son is the revelation of the person of God, as the one true God (Jn 17:13).

We can not worship the Father without the Son and we can not worship the Son without the Father, for we worship the Father and the Son for they are one and the same in all things. The Son reveals the Father and without the Son there would be no revelation of the Father (Mt 11:27, Jn 1:18). This is why Jesus told Philip and the disciples, 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father' (Jn 14:7-9), and when you believe upon me, you are not believing upon me but upon the Father that sent me (Jn 12:44,45, 5:24). We can not believe upon the Son without believing upon the Father and we cannot have the Father without the Son.

The Lamb took the book from the right hand of the Father, from the place where Christ sits, at the right hand of God (Col 3:1). The book was given to the Son, the Lamb, who came from the Father and shed His blood for the remission of the sins of the world (1Pt 1:8,19, 1Jn 2:2, Heb 9:22). This book was only to be opened by the Son who had come from the Father as God in the flesh to condemn sin in His flesh (Rom 8:3).

In (Rev 5:13) there was no separate distinction from those people listed in that verse, for they gave the one that sitteth on the throne and unto the Lamb blessing, and honor and glory and power. The Lamb had executed the plan of salvation for all men when He was slain and had shed His blood (Rev 5:6). By virtue of that shed blood He was worthy to take the book and open it. Both the one that sat on the throne and the Lamb received the same blessing, honor, glory and power. There were none present that had been redeemed by that blood who were worthy to take the book, only the Lamb (Rev 5:4). This makes the oneness of the Father and the Son unique and more glorious than those that were redeemed by that blood for none could take the book.

The Son will always be the one, that our eyes behold, who will reveal the Father throughout eternity (Jn 17:24). Satan had a problem with the Son, who had come from the glory of the Father and did everything in His power to stop Him from being the Savior of the world. Satan, having the power of death (Heb 2:14), could not keep the body of Jesus in the grave for on the third day Jesus was resurrected as the Christ and ascended to the glory of the Father to sit at the right hand of God (Jn 17:5, Col 3:1), which as later witnessed to by Stephen when he was being stoned to death in (Acts 7:59).

As believers we are never to separate the Father from the Son nor the Son from the Father because they are one and they are the same in every way. To separate the Son from the Father in any way would deny that the Father not only sent His Son, but was in His Son to be revealed by His Son. The Father did not send His Son to separate the Son from Himself or to reveal Himself separate from the Father.

There is no difference between the Father and the Son and that is what makes their deity and divinity, in and of itself, without likeness or comparison. They are not divided or isolated in their relationship to one another in any way, which includes their essence, their being, their perfection, their holiness, their image, their glory, their throne, their authority and eternal life and all of their attributes. All that God is was in the Son and the Son revealed all that God is in Him and through Him through grace and truth (Jn 1:1-14).

A-A-A-A-AMEN!

 

[Red33]

The disciples wanted to seperate the Father from the Son because they thought the Father to be greater then the Son, but Jesus would not let them do it. That is why we have that passage in (John 14:7-9).

Jesus was being very dogmatic and a little sarcastic at their unbelief and said the following...

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?