The CROSS: Jewish or Pagan?

[ChristianTalk]

Is the cross a Jewish symbol or a pagan image? If anybody has read this book "The Ancient Jewish Cross" let me know. Here is the link for the book.

ConfessBelieveandLive.com

Thanks.

[musiclover123]

I've done a bit a research on this, and there seem to be some connection of the cross symbol to Judaism and the culture, but not enough for it to be known as a Jewish symbol.
The only clear connection I have found is in the one of the earliest forms of the Hebrew alphabet. The last letter of the alphabet, Tav/Taw, is said to have had a cross as its symbol. Originally the cross was in the same shape as the one Christians now use, but later it changed to more of an X shape, and continued to evolve throughout time. The symbol for Tav today has no likeness of a cross at all.

As much as it may have been a Jewish symbol at one time, the Jews were not the only people to have used it. Just because one cultureal group has used a symbol in the past doesn't make it theirs, it just signifies something to them that it doesn't to someone else. During the time of Jesus' life, the symbol of the cross was seen more as a symbol of hate, death, and opression because the Roman Empire used them to crucify criminals. Because this is more well known, this would be why more people associate the cross with the Romans and other pagan groups rather than Jews. Even today, more people will actually associate it with Christians than Romans even.

It is similar to the representation of a swastika. At one time the symbol was used by certian groups to represent peace. It was not until after it was used by Hitler that it became something to represent hate. The meaning of symbols are always changing.

I won't say that there may be some significance in things that are said to be connected to the ancient Tav/Taw symbol in the Old Testament, but really as Christians overall it symbolizes what Christ accomplished through the cross.Whether it was Jewish or pagan symbol originally doesn't change what it repsesents to us. It received a whole new meaning after Christ's death, beginning with the 1st century church.

[ChristianTalk]

I believe you need to do more research on the matter. The book that was mentioned has the complete usage of the Taw in ancient Judaism. The Jews themselves admit this. The cross in ancient Jewish pictagraph script was the cross. In fact the spelling of the Taw in pictagraph script is a nail and the cross. The meaning of the Taw is sign, seal, mark and covenant. In Ezek. 9 the Hebrew work for mark is Taw which is the cross that was put on the foreheads of the believers. Please do more research on the matter.

[musiclover123]

I said that one of the earlier forms of Taw was the cross. Later though, they did change the form to more of an X shape.
I have heard about the things in Ezekiel 9 but haven't had time to look into the matter yet, which is why I said nothing of it, but said more that it may be associated with thing in the Old Testament.
I only told of what I know atm really, and that if there is a Jewish origina and significance if may be spiritually significance, but that doesn't mena it's the only meaning behind the symbol, and it doesn't mean the symbol is only Jewish.

[ChristianTalk]

I see. The more x shape came from the Greek not the original Hebrew. The Chi shape x is Greek and comes from the evolution of the alphabet. The Jews used the cross shape Taw in their rituals and make this clear in the Talmud and the Jewish encyclopedia. The Taw cross pre-dates any known usage of a cross. The Jews admitted to stop using the Taw cross because of the usage of it from Christians and they wanted to not have anything to do with them. Again the book gives all the Jewish sources on the matter.

[musiclover123]

Just because there are some Jewish sources doesn't mean the whole community agrees. Usually they actually don't. And, it is recorded in history as the next figure for the taw after the cross as being an x. You can find an evolution of the letters online, from the earliers to the ones they use today.
The ancient hebrew writing is quite different from what is used today.

[ChristianTalk]

Yes I am well aware of the ancient Jewish sources and they all agree. I would like you to site the ones who do not. I can give you all of them if you like. Next the evolution of the ancient Hebrew alphabet doesn't dismiss the fact that the Jews first used the cross as their symbol and sign of God for the believers. Starting from the Proto-Canaanite pictographs to the Proto-Hebrew Script and again the modern Hebrew dictionaries, they all agree with the cross shape usage in their culture. The early church fathers also agree with the cross being used in Ezek.9 in their commentaries.

[Scotth1960]

Originally Posted by ChristianTalk

Is the cross a Jewish symbol or a pagan image? If anybody has read this book "The Ancient Jewish Cross" let me know. Here is the link for the book.

ConfessBelieveandLive.com

Thanks.

Dear ChristianTalk, I believe the Cross is a Christian image. It's neither Jewish nor Gentile, as in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Greek). It is certainly not a pagan image. God bless you. In Erie June 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

[ChristianTalk]

Thank you Mr. Harrington for your response. The image of the cross started out and is Jewish. Its origins are Jewish and the book "The Ancient Jewish CROSS" traces back the origin of the cross from its Jewish roots and shows how the ancient symbol is linked to the death of Jesus on it. I think before we can make assumptions of the meaning of the cross we need to research it first.

Thank you and God bless.

[ChristianTalk]

Also there are two great books on this subject: "Ancient Hebrew Unveiled" and "The Ancient Jewish CROSS"

Both are available at Amazon.com

[ChristianTalk]

If anybody has any other thoughts on this matter please let me know. The truth about the cross is important since we as Christians use the cross in our ministry. JW's and the LDS church reject the cross.

[perplexus]

Jews took Jerihon, with Jesus and cross. Jesus Navi lead the battle in the field, and the cross was on the mountain, formed by arms of Moses. Without cross there, Jews were beaten

[ChristianTalk]

Do we really understand the meaning of the cross from its Jewish roots?

[rainacorn]

Originally Posted by ChristianTalk

Do we really understand the meaning of the cross from its Jewish roots?

Probably not. Do we REALLY need to?

Honest question.

The symbol of a cross having multiple meanings doesn't really change what it means to Christians. Or maybe you think it does? Would love to hear thoughts on that.

[Megatron]

Agreed Rainacorn. The cross has meanings to Christians that are solely christian. What another group believes the cross to mean shouldnt phase us in any way. A similar symbol with multiple meanings is the swastika. We all know what Hitler and the Nazis used the symbol as and what it stood for then. It is originally a Sanskrit symbol used in many indian/east asian religions and tends to stand for good luck and peace. The cross is the same way. The jews and pagas can assign whatever meaning they want to it, i honestly dont care. It means completely different things to christian.

[Dude653]

Why do we need a cross to represent Christianity?. Christ is not on the cross anymore. Some people believe that the cross is a graven image..I guess i can see it from both sides

[ChristianTalk]

The understaning of the image of the cross is part of our preaching as Christians. It has Jewish roots behind it and since our faith is a Jewish faith and Paul says, "the preaching of the cross is to them who parish foolishness but to us who are saved it is the power of God"

The last letter of the Hebrew alphabet is called Taw and the Ancient picture behind it is a cross. The letter meant "covenant, sign, seal and mark". In Ezek. 9 God commanded that the Taw letter, which was a cross, be put on all the believers foreheads so that they would not die.

The Hebrew spelling for Taw is the picture of a nail and a cross in ancient pictagraph script. I think everyone needs to read the book:

"The Ancient Jewish CROSS", Al Garza Th.D, PhD, Amazon.com

[Megatron]

Originally Posted by ChristianTalk

The understaning of the image of the cross is part of our preaching as Christians. It has Jewish roots behind it and since our faith is a Jewish faith and Paul says, "the preaching of the cross is to them who parish foolishness but to us who are saved it is the power of God"

The last letter of the Hebrew alphabet is called Taw and the Ancient picture behind it is a cross. The letter meant "covenant, sign, seal and mark". In Ezek. 9 God commanded that the Taw letter, which was a cross, be put on all the believers foreheads so that they would not die.

The Hebrew spelling for Taw is the picture of a nail and a cross in ancient pictagraph script. I think everyone needs to read the book:

"The Ancient Jewish CROSS", Al Garza Th.D, PhD, Amazon.com

You know instead of promoting a book you could lay out points....otherwise this is pointless...see what i did there?

[MissTatiana]

To me: Christian

Historical: The cross can be anything we have "proof" of it being.

The bottom line: What faith teaches us.

[ChristianTalk]

Sorry but the historical meaning from a Judeo Christian view of the cross is the last letter of the Ancient Hebrew Alphabet. It means covenant and it represents the final and new covenant for all believers. You need to study a little more concerning the Judeo Christian faith.

The Hebrew is one of the oldest languages to date.