Do you believe in speaking in tounges?
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the bible is right but shroom doesn't understand Paul's words.
zone will help:
PAUL:
you guys! smarten up! i know God miraculously endowed you with the ability to speak a whole pile of gentile languages just like He did at Pentecost, as a sign for UNBELIEVERS (and so the gospel could GO OUT - sent - apostles, evangelists), and to build us in the church up in KNOWLEDGE about what God's NEWLY REVEALED PLAN IS, AS WE LAY THE FOUNDATION...but you are recently converted superpagans who used to be involved in ecstatic mysticism.
you can't act that way anymore, I SAID SO BECAUSE I AM AN APOSTLE and am sending you a CORRECTIVE letter.
listen up!
even though i speak lots of languages, i don't just blab in them for no good reason to show off....i speak in them when there is SOMEONE THERE WHO UNDERSTANDS.
also you guys.....you're running around getting drunk on Communion wine, one guy is sleeping with his father's wife and you're acting CRAZY.
stop it and realize this is about love...quit competing and showing off, embarrassing yourselves and the church, making unbelievers think you ARE INSANE, and causing confusion among believers. God gave us these miraculously previously unlearned gentile languages FOR A REASON....so obey my instructions.
and let me add: even if i could lift up a car with one hand, or speak in the language of Giraffes, it wouldn't mean a thing if i didn't act out of LOVE FOR THE CHURCH.
zone will help:
PAUL:
you guys! smarten up! i know God miraculously endowed you with the ability to speak a whole pile of gentile languages just like He did at Pentecost, as a sign for UNBELIEVERS (and so the gospel could GO OUT - sent - apostles, evangelists), and to build us in the church up in KNOWLEDGE about what God's NEWLY REVEALED PLAN IS, AS WE LAY THE FOUNDATION...but you are recently converted superpagans who used to be involved in ecstatic mysticism.
you can't act that way anymore, I SAID SO BECAUSE I AM AN APOSTLE and am sending you a CORRECTIVE letter.
listen up!
even though i speak lots of languages, i don't just blab in them for no good reason to show off....i speak in them when there is SOMEONE THERE WHO UNDERSTANDS.
also you guys.....you're running around getting drunk on Communion wine, one guy is sleeping with his father's wife and you're acting CRAZY.
stop it and realize this is about love...quit competing and showing off, embarrassing yourselves and the church, making unbelievers think you ARE INSANE, and causing confusion among believers. God gave us these miraculously previously unlearned gentile languages FOR A REASON....so obey my instructions.
and let me add: even if i could lift up a car with one hand, or speak in the language of Giraffes, it wouldn't mean a thing if i didn't act out of LOVE FOR THE CHURCH.
being born in a country where kundilini is practised,and having grandparents into witchcraft i know its not partaking its more of a activation which they beleive..but i also know the Holyspirit,we have ministered to ppl possessed by kundalini every time the spirits comes out in Jesus name,everytime there is avictory..
its not about proving urself right its about living for the kingdom where arguments ends,proving oneself right ends and comes forth humilty and truth through the empowering of the Holy spirit that will bring people to repentence.
its not about proving urself right its about living for the kingdom where arguments ends,proving oneself right ends and comes forth humilty and truth through the empowering of the Holy spirit that will bring people to repentence.
M
I do believe in speaking in tongues, though I don't believe it happens as often as some Christian groups claims it happens. I also believe that Satan would easily use this gift as a way to deceive believers into thinking a person is of God or perhaps even a prophet of God. We must always be cautious.
P
in orthodox traditions, holy fathers fight with devils not only rejecting deluding signs or appearances, also face to face .. they teach as that is safer to reject any "wonderfull" appearance that feed our proud (made our self apostles, or special gifted) .. because when Holy Spirit will work by us we cannot opposite .. 2000 old knowledge
F
For starters, no one said anything about extra biblical revelations. If you read my earlier post in the thread, you would have noticed that I believe strongly in adhering to Sola Scriptura which is exactly the reason why that I believe the gifts are still relevant. I believe it is Cessationists who have adopted extra biblical revelations by believing in a bye gone apostolic dispenation that passed away with the death of the Apostle John. There is nothing in the bible that alludes to any such era.
As for the modern Pentecostal / Charismatic movement, it is over a century old (unlike Free Grace theology which is around 50 years old). However, "pentecostalism" was not only alive but flourishing throughout both the 1600s & 1700s however, back then it was called Quakerism. The Quaker movement was founded early in the 1600's by George Fox and spread like wildfire through England and the American colonies. In fact, the state of Pennsylvania, was founded by William Penn, a devote Quaker, looking to establish a Quaker stronghold in America seeing as Quakers were being heavily persecuted and even martyred by the Calvinistic branch of Puritans (yes, there were Arminian Puritans, most notable John Goodwin) which had populated the future United States. The reason why you seldom here about Quakerism today is because it was incorperated over time into the Wesleyan movement seeing as their beliefs system are very simular. It was this incorperation of the Quskers into the Wesleyean movement which launched both the modern Holiness & Pentecostal movements.
As far as abstaining from idols and fornication, that's very essence of sanctification. Real faith believes that sin itself equates to faithlessness once you understand that God's grace does more than siimply forgives past sins but also empowers us to walk away from making future ones.
No one is asking for any new Apostles or extra biblical revelations. All we want is what the word of God promises. Anything less is compromise.
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F
By the way, you all should do a deep study of the Anti Nicene Fathers, you know those guys who lived and lead the church centuries before Augustine, there are many accounts of the laying on of hands for both healing and Baptism of the Holy Spirit which resulted in many speaking in an unknown tongue(s). If anyone was guilty of introducing pagan mysticism into the church, it was Augustine.
I have seen some christians worship in ways I find annoying. However,they could really be worshiping with all their heart and that's just how they do it! Or maybe they are just putting on a show... but who am I to judge the intentions of their heart? Is that not between them and God?
Yes, I believe tongues is real. Yes, some christians do it only for attention and are probably faking it.. Just like some christians talk the christian talk, but don't walk the christian walk.. You can't judge a gift of God based on a human's actions. That's like me saying, "Every christian I know who claims to be born-again, still acts like the world, therefore, being born again is not real and not of God."
Do I believe in counterfeit tongues? Yes.. Does that mean all tongues are counterfeit? No.
Mark 16:17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues"
1 Corinthians 12:6-10 " And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues
1 Corinthians 12:30 "Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?"
1 Corinthians 14:39 "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues."
There are many more verses but I don't wanna drag out this post too long. Point is.. Tongues is a gift.. but love is the greatest gift of all. Love heals the brokenhearted.. touches a bitter soul...breaks competition, pride, strife, and division. And a person who has the gift of tongues, but does not have love... is missing much much more than the person who has love and no tongues.
Yes, I believe tongues is real. Yes, some christians do it only for attention and are probably faking it.. Just like some christians talk the christian talk, but don't walk the christian walk.. You can't judge a gift of God based on a human's actions. That's like me saying, "Every christian I know who claims to be born-again, still acts like the world, therefore, being born again is not real and not of God."
Do I believe in counterfeit tongues? Yes.. Does that mean all tongues are counterfeit? No.
Mark 16:17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues"
1 Corinthians 12:6-10 " And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues
1 Corinthians 12:30 "Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?"
1 Corinthians 14:39 "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues."
There are many more verses but I don't wanna drag out this post too long. Point is.. Tongues is a gift.. but love is the greatest gift of all. Love heals the brokenhearted.. touches a bitter soul...breaks competition, pride, strife, and division. And a person who has the gift of tongues, but does not have love... is missing much much more than the person who has love and no tongues.
F
I'll be the first to admit there is a lot "fleshly" things going on in various pentecostal / charismatic circles. In fact, I am ussually one of the first to step up and voice my concern when something does happen that is questionable.
I personally believe that one of the primary reasons that you see people passing out in these churches is the fact that Christians through out all denominations carry various forms of bondage into their salvation experience because they have not been properly discipled thus when the pressence of God does show up in a corporate setting some people (namely the oppressed) just can't handle it emotionally which is why they pass out. I'm not saying that this is the only reason but I have seen it a lot.
Although I have seen some people hit the floor / ground very hard (head first and face first smack against the floor, asphalt / gravel and against church pews) hard enough that you would expect serious injury yet I have to witness one gash, nod (knot) or concussion which leads me to believe that God has to be at work.
I personally believe that one of the primary reasons that you see people passing out in these churches is the fact that Christians through out all denominations carry various forms of bondage into their salvation experience because they have not been properly discipled thus when the pressence of God does show up in a corporate setting some people (namely the oppressed) just can't handle it emotionally which is why they pass out. I'm not saying that this is the only reason but I have seen it a lot.
Although I have seen some people hit the floor / ground very hard (head first and face first smack against the floor, asphalt / gravel and against church pews) hard enough that you would expect serious injury yet I have to witness one gash, nod (knot) or concussion which leads me to believe that God has to be at work.
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rubbish. THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.
are there Apostles today? NO.
start over.
(but you'll have to be willing to consider you've asked for BAPTISM BY FIRE (which means JUDGMENT) first.....that SECOND BAPTISM....which is NOT Biblical).
did God say He would send strong delusion? did he say He likes people who require SIGNS?
but too many are unwilling to do that. why don't you go forth and look for testimonies of people who have COME OUT of that?
you claim Sola Scriptura...and a literal interpretation. why don't YOU BELIEVE IT THEN?
i know the history well, dear.
i've been at this a little while.
i turned your "decades" back on you.
aren't you Weslyean? you were when you got here.
once i understand that?
here it is again: i no longer jab needles into my arms and swig from old bottles. i no longer steal and lie to feed my sinful desires......should i go on?
STOP with the infantile Weslyean accusation of antinomianism....you're still a sinner and if you think you are not there's NO TRUTH IN YOU.
too bad. that's what Charismaticism BROUGHT US. incrementally. but nobody was WATCHING were they....they didn't BELIEVE there would be apostasy and LYING signs and wonders.
you want THE GIFTS? you better believe in APOSTLES AND PROPHETS THEN....they all belong together.
you are promised eternal life and joy in tribulation.
you are promised persecution and trouble.
you are NOT promised supernatural power.
but you don't LIKE THAT ANSWER.
are there Apostles today? NO.
start over.
(but you'll have to be willing to consider you've asked for BAPTISM BY FIRE (which means JUDGMENT) first.....that SECOND BAPTISM....which is NOT Biblical).
did God say He would send strong delusion? did he say He likes people who require SIGNS?
but too many are unwilling to do that. why don't you go forth and look for testimonies of people who have COME OUT of that?
you claim Sola Scriptura...and a literal interpretation. why don't YOU BELIEVE IT THEN?
i know the history well, dear.
i've been at this a little while.
i turned your "decades" back on you.
aren't you Weslyean? you were when you got here.
once i understand that?
here it is again: i no longer jab needles into my arms and swig from old bottles. i no longer steal and lie to feed my sinful desires......should i go on?
STOP with the infantile Weslyean accusation of antinomianism....you're still a sinner and if you think you are not there's NO TRUTH IN YOU.
too bad. that's what Charismaticism BROUGHT US. incrementally. but nobody was WATCHING were they....they didn't BELIEVE there would be apostasy and LYING signs and wonders.
you want THE GIFTS? you better believe in APOSTLES AND PROPHETS THEN....they all belong together.
you are promised eternal life and joy in tribulation.
you are promised persecution and trouble.
you are NOT promised supernatural power.
but you don't LIKE THAT ANSWER.
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S
No. I don't believe in speaking in tongues as it is defined and practiced by Pentecostalism and the charismatic renewal. Unfortunately, it is a strong problem and is a habit hard to break. I still "speak in tongues" as I was taught to do at an Assemblies of God "church". I consider it a psychological aberration if not an outright mental illness. I don't consider it a fulfillment of the book of Acts or a correct interpretation of the Scriptural gift of speaking in tongues. I consider it presumption and chaos.
It's a practice of "tongues" that I'm ashamed of. It is better to speak 10 words anyone can understand than a thousand "words" in an "unknown (unknowable) tongue".
What I believe in my heart is when I do this, I'm deluded by a false spirit trying to gain control of my heart and mind. I don't consider it a valid gift of the Holy Spirit. We don't need psychological games; we need forgiveness and then holiness. My new belief is about the charismatic revival as stated in
Rose, Fr. Seraphim (Eugene). (1999). Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood.
God save us all from false versions of the Holy Spirit. Amen. In Erie June 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington
It's a practice of "tongues" that I'm ashamed of. It is better to speak 10 words anyone can understand than a thousand "words" in an "unknown (unknowable) tongue".
What I believe in my heart is when I do this, I'm deluded by a false spirit trying to gain control of my heart and mind. I don't consider it a valid gift of the Holy Spirit. We don't need psychological games; we need forgiveness and then holiness. My new belief is about the charismatic revival as stated in
Rose, Fr. Seraphim (Eugene). (1999). Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood.
God save us all from false versions of the Holy Spirit. Amen. In Erie June 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington
F
I have always been an Absolute Continuationist which is the belief that every New Testament promise is for the believer in the current church age. As for me being an Arminian Wesleyan, it is my heritage and I still am to a degree, although I do enjoy reading about Quakerism in it's original form as held to by George Fox, William Penn and the like. I have no problem with prophecy, if properly understood and performed.