Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

  1. #1
    Davidshire
    Guest

    Default Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    This is one reason why "saved" is not true.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 21st, 2009
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,955
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Did the person use their free will to decide to hate God?

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,117
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidshire View Post
    This is one reason why "saved" is not true.
    Of course, He knows everything. In fact, not only does He know, but He made them for that very purpose.

    7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever. (Psalm 92:7)

    4 The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. (Proverbs 16:4)

    10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:10-24)

  4. #4
    AlecW
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    I am perplexed by this question and the response that the exercise of "free will" is the determining factor. That response does not answer the question. Sure someone can exercise their will and turn against God. The question is, how could God not have known that this person was going to do this when God is all knowing? Because God is all knowing, he must have known this. The question is then when of what does "free will" really mean?

  5. #5
    Senior Member francina's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 21st, 2011
    Age
    46
    Posts
    176
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Well, yes God Himself said, "I have set before you life & death. Choose life."
    So His omniscience does not mean control of our decisions.
    “In answer to your inquiry, I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and heaven without hell.”
    William Booth quote

  6. #6
    Hearer
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    God is not everyone's creator. Just as Jesus told us in the parable of the evil sower in Matthew Ch13

    27 The man's servants came to him and said,
    Sir, it was good seed you sowed in your field; where did the weeds come from?28
    It was some enemy who did this, he answered.

  7. #7
    Senior Member resurrection33's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 19th, 2009
    Age
    64
    Posts
    26,888
    Rep Power
    94

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidshire View Post
    This is one reason why "saved" is not true.
    I don’t think anyone goes to hell forever unless they sin forever.

    I think hell is the discipline we receive each time we sin.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Crypto's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 14th, 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    I don’t think anyone goes to hell forever unless they sin forever.

    I think hell is the discipline we receive each time we sin.
    What you 'think' is in complete opposition to what the Bible teaches.
    Lonely without He’s staying; Lonely within am I; While I am still delaying, Will He not pass me by?

    Sweetly the tones are falling; “Open the door for Me! If thou wilt heed My calling, I will abide with thee.”

  9. #9
    Senior Member Crypto's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 14th, 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hearer View Post
    God is not everyone's creator. Just as Jesus told us in the parable of the evil sower in Matthew Ch13

    27 The man's servants came to him and said,
    Sir, it was good seed you sowed in your field; where did the weeds come from?28
    It was some enemy who did this, he answered.
    Who else has the power to create? Satan doesn't. Only God does.
    Lonely without He’s staying; Lonely within am I; While I am still delaying, Will He not pass me by?

    Sweetly the tones are falling; “Open the door for Me! If thou wilt heed My calling, I will abide with thee.”

  10. #10
    Senior Member Crypto's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 14th, 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by trust_in_the_name View Post
    Of course, He knows everything. In fact, not only does He know, but He made them for that very purpose.

    7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever. (Psalm 92:7)

    4 The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. (Proverbs 16:4)

    10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:10-24)
    Romans 9 has nothing to do with election for salvation, it's talking about the election of Israel.
    Lonely without He’s staying; Lonely within am I; While I am still delaying, Will He not pass me by?

    Sweetly the tones are falling; “Open the door for Me! If thou wilt heed My calling, I will abide with thee.”

  11. #11
    Senior Member Crypto's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 14th, 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    God doesn't predestine anyone to hell,

    This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.--1 Tim. 2:4
    Lonely without He’s staying; Lonely within am I; While I am still delaying, Will He not pass me by?

    Sweetly the tones are falling; “Open the door for Me! If thou wilt heed My calling, I will abide with thee.”

  12. #12
    AnandaHya
    Guest

    Talking Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto View Post
    God doesn't predestine anyone to hell,

    This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.--1 Tim. 2:4
    thank you I was looking for that verse

    note: "Who desires ALL people to be saved"

  13. #13
    Senior Member DiscipleWilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 12th, 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    376
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    What do you mean when you say, "this is one reason saved is not true."
    May grace and peace be continually upon the elect of God,
    DiscipleWilliam

  14. #14
    TDWP22
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    what do you mean by "he made"...he only made adam and eve but gave them the ability to reproduce, and yes he does just like he knows how many hairs we have, even from before the earth was created

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2011
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,117
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto View Post
    Romans 9 has nothing to do with election for salvation, it's talking about the election of Israel.
    1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son." 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." 26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." 27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. 28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth." 29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah." 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." (Romans 9)

    Israel is only a part of what it's talking about here. There's a lot more to it than that. As far as election goes, verse 11 is talking about the election of people, Jacob and Esau, not Israel. It mentions Rebecca conceiving by Isaac. It refers to them as "children," "not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls." All one has to do is read this to realize it's talking about people, not Israel.

    9 For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son." 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." (Romans 9:9-13)

    Verse 15 is also talking about people: it says "whomever."

    15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." (Romans 9:15)

    Verse 16 makes this clear. It speaks of "him who wills" and "him who runs."

    16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. (Romans 9:16)

    Verse 17 is also talking about a person, Pharaoh. There's no way this could be a reference to Israel.

    17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." (Romans 9:17)

    Verse 18 is again talking about people, speaking of "whom He wills" and "whom He hardens."

    18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. (Romans 9:18)

    Verse 19 is talking about people: "who has resisted His will?"

    19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" (Romans 9:19)

    If there were any doubt at this point, verse 20 does away with it. Who is it talking about here? "O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing [man] formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me [man] like this?"

    20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" (Romans 9:20)

    That's how we know the vessels in the following verses are men.

    21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, (Romans 9:21-23)

    And finally, verse 24 says explicitly that we're not talking about just Israel here, but all mankind: "not ... the Jews only, but also ... the Gentiles."

    24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:24)

  16. #16
    Davidshire
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscipleWilliam View Post
    What do you mean when you say, "this is one reason saved is not true."
    I mean I don't think God is likely to make up one person knowing that that person is going to spend all of eternity being tortured, much less the 70% of the population that is not Christian.

  17. #17
    Davidshire
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    [quote=Crypto;470331]God doesn't predestine anyone to hell,

    Yes Crypto, but dose God KNOW someone is going to hell when He makes them?

  18. #18
    TDWP22
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    [quote=Davidshire;470615]
    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto View Post
    God doesn't predestine anyone to hell,

    Yes Crypto, but dose God KNOW someone is going to hell when He makes them?
    first of he doesnt "make them," second yes he does know who will and who will not but to keep his promises, he still lets them live

  19. #19
    Davidshire
    Guest

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    [quote=TDWP22;470624]
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidshire View Post

    first of he doesnt "make them," second yes he does know who will and who will not but to keep his promises, he still lets them live
    god dosnt make people?

  20. #20
    Senior Member silverwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 26th, 2009
    Age
    57
    Posts
    661
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Dose God know a person is going to hell when he makes that person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidshire View Post
    This is one reason why "saved" is not true.
    Loaded question, but I would say YES to it because God is all-knowing. He is also a loving God and does not wish for anyone to perish, it is up to us to decide for or against Him.

    Here's an interesting verse in Jonah:
    Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?

    To perish means you are under God's wrath, to not perish means you are saved from it. OUR decision to be saved from it is given to us by our free will and we can choose. That does not change the fact that he already knows the outcome when we are born.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Why Did God Allow Satan To Tempt Adam + Eve?
    By QuestionTime in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: March 27th, 2011, 11:15 AM
  2. Jesus's God?
    By zackabba in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: March 12th, 2011, 11:49 AM
  3. Is there more than one God
    By Sutra in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2010, 01:38 AM
  4. How to defeat Calvinism
    By phil36 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 189
    Last Post: May 7th, 2010, 07:37 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: December 25th, 2009, 10:23 AM