SANTO: "These threads always pop up every now and then. Put simply I was saved when I was born and I am now being saved. The Bible does not address the issue one way or the other, and the standard practice throughout Christian history before the reformation has been paedobaptism. I don't know what "bible" you are reading but the Holy Bible DOES address it. Nowhere to you find babies getting baptized. BELIEVERS are called to obey the COMMAND to be baptized and babied CANNOT obey because they lack the intelligence with which to make such a DECISION/choice.
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them"-Hippolytus (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]). That is heresy, friend. SCRIPTURE does not say or indicate or even remotely hint that babies are to be baptized. God will not violate the will of man. You think he would let an older person, parent or not, choose for a person that has not yet matured? Nope!
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. Maybe in the RCC, but not the early church and not in the Word-adhering, scripture-obeying Body of Christ Church. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous"-Origen (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]). Again you quote erroneous man rather than God's own word.
"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. No they did not! Prove it from scripture. You can't because it is not there. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments,more heresy and error. There is nothing that the apostles were made privy to that has not been put down in His written word, the Bible. knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit"-Origen (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]). Again, man's SLANT, not God's pure truth in His word.
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born"-Cyprian of Carthage (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]). Again, man's SLANT, not God's pure truth in His word. HERESY!!
"If, in the case of the worst sinners and those who formerly sinned much against God, when afterwards they believe, the remission of their sins is granted and no one is held back from baptism and grace, how much more, then, should an infant not be held back, who, having but recently been born, has done no sin, except that, born of the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of that old death from his first being born. For this very reason does he [an infant] approach more easily to receive the remission of sins: because the sins forgiven him are not his own but those of another" -Cyprian of Carthage (ibid., 64:5). DUDE! The INFANT cannot approach at all!!! He rolls around or crawls searching for the brightest TOY!! Again, man's SLANT, not God's pure truth in His word: HERESY!!
"Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. Yeah, like pouring water over his head is going to keep him from sinning! Ha! NOT! I was water-sprinkled when I was a baby and guess what!! As a child I lied, stole, was disrespectful to my parents and more! Your erroneous theory HOLDS NO WATER! From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal [of baptism] because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!"- Gregory of Nazianz (Oration on Holy Baptism 40:7 [A.D. 388]). HERESY!!
"‘Well enough,’ some will say, ‘for those who ask for baptism What BABY can even SPEAK TO ASK??, but what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’ Certainly [I respond], if there is any pressing danger. Better that they be sanctified unaware,Being "sanctified unaware" is a gross violation of God's principles and character. than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated"- Gregory of Nazianz (ibid., 40:28). HERESY!!
"You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members"- John Chrysostom (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]). There are other but these will do for the time being. Feel free to say "But it's not the Bible so it doesn't matter!" HERESY!! You would do well to study the SCRIPTURES that speak of children being sanctified by their believing parents, NOT having water poured over their head...which, BTW is NOT a baptism by any Biblical standard.
SCOT: Dear MaggieMye,
Baby baptism does not save? What saith the Scripture? "There is also an antitype which now saveth us ... baptism (not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21 ONT).
KJV "
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
NASB "
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " Regardless of the version of the Bible that you use, you completely take this verse out of context.
So, baptism saves. No it does not. You've taken that verse out of context and without understanding. It says nothing about baby baptism not saving. Because it doesn't save! It says nothing about who can or cannot be saved. ALL CAN be saved, but it is a choice made by each individual person. It is not something forced upon a baby prior to the age of understanding or at any other time. How many of the people in our US prison systems were baptized as babies and have no relationship with Christ? They are not saved! Scripture does not teach infants (babies) can not be baptized, nor that they cannot believe. Do you HAVE kids of your own? Obviously not. because if you did you would KNOW that babies cannot believe anything, let alone a spiritual concept. Scripture tells people to OBEY THE COMMAND to be baptized. Tell a 6 month old baby to turn on the TV, to clean up their mess, to take first communion. GET THE PICTURE? Nor that they cannot be saved. Sanctified by believing parents: see above. Acts says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, and thy household." Right. So baptism does not save, but BELIEVING DOES! So, in Acts, whole households were baptized, and households included infants. Nope. Only that that understood and desired to be baptized. Infants were not able to choose. AND scripture does not say any in the households were infants. Even if there were babies, them being sanctified by their believing parents is what saves them.
You do not have to be baptized to be saved. But you DO have to be saved to be Biblically baptized.
If verbal confession of faith in Christ is required for salvation,It is. See Rom. 10:9-10 then mute people and people who cannot speak can not be saved. wrong. They use the form of communication they have to make the declaration: sign language, writing. (mute people ARE people that cannot speak) If it takes verbal articulation for a person to be saved, that makes faith a work which we perform in order to merit salvation, and not a free gift of God's grace. Faith that is not FAITH to the point of proclaiming Christ as Lord and Savior is D E A D and not faith at all. James 2:26 But according to Titus, we are saved by God's mercy, not by works of righteousness which we have performed. Again, faith WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. What is required for salvation is faith. But if you don't have enough faith/belief to DO the works of God and Obey, then you have no faith at all.
Speaking about it doesn't guarantee salvation. If verbal confession is required, there would be a scripture that says, "Speaking is required for salvation." Rom 10:9-10
