Thou Shall Not Kill or Thou Shall Not Murder?

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T

TDWP22

Guest
#1
#1
so which is it? one includes accidental killing and the other doesn't...by accidental killing would mean you were hunting and your friend suddenly got in the line of fire and you kill him

The Ten Commandments Ex. 20.1-17 1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep and do them.
2 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
5 (I stood between the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] and you at that time, to show you the word of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount,) saying,
6 ¶ I am the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 ¶ Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 ¶ Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: Ex. 34.17 · Lev. 19.4 ; 26.1 · Deut. 4.15-19 ; 27.15 for I the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. Ex. 34.6, 7 · Num. 14.18 · Deut. 7.9, 10
11 ¶ Thou shalt not take the name of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God in vain: Lev. 19.12 for the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 ¶ Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God hath commanded thee. Ex. 16.23-30 ; 31.12-14
13 Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work:
14 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, Ex. 23.12 ; 31.15 ; 34.21 ; 35.2 · Lev. 23.3 thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 ¶ Honor thy father and thy mother, Deut. 27.16 · Mt. 15.4 ; 19.19 · Mk. 7.10 ; 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Eph. 6.2 as the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God giveth thee. Eph. 6.3
17 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
18 ¶ Neither shalt thou commit adultery. Lev. 20.10 · Mt. 5.27 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
19 ¶ Neither shalt thou steal. Lev. 19.11 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9
20 ¶ Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor. Ex. 23.1 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20
21 ¶ Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet Rom. 7.7 ; 13.9 thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's.
 
S

selenah

Guest
#2
#2
I think it's thou shalt not murder. A number of times God told the Israelites to kill.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#3
#3
TDWP22 said:
so which is it? one includes accidental killing and the other doesn't...by accidental killing would mean you were hunting and your friend suddenly got in the line of fire and you kill him

The Ten Commandments Ex. 20.1-17 1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep and do them.
2 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
5 (I stood between the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] and you at that time, to show you the word of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount,) saying,
6 ¶ I am the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 ¶ Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 ¶ Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: Ex. 34.17 · Lev. 19.4 ; 26.1 · Deut. 4.15-19 ; 27.15 for I the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. Ex. 34.6, 7 · Num. 14.18 · Deut. 7.9, 10
11 ¶ Thou shalt not take the name of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God in vain: Lev. 19.12 for the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 ¶ Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God hath commanded thee. Ex. 16.23-30 ; 31.12-14
13 Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work:
14 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, Ex. 23.12 ; 31.15 ; 34.21 ; 35.2 · Lev. 23.3 thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 ¶ Honor thy father and thy mother, Deut. 27.16 · Mt. 15.4 ; 19.19 · Mk. 7.10 ; 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Eph. 6.2 as the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] thy God giveth thee. Eph. 6.3
17 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
18 ¶ Neither shalt thou commit adultery. Lev. 20.10 · Mt. 5.27 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
19 ¶ Neither shalt thou steal. Lev. 19.11 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9
20 ¶ Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor. Ex. 23.1 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20
21 ¶ Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet Rom. 7.7 ; 13.9 thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's.
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According to Exodus 20:13 in the OSB (Orthodox Study Bible), it is "You shall not murder."
I form no independent opinion of my own, but follow what the Orthodox Church tells me to believe. So, not all killing is forbidden, but Scripture doesn't tell us to go out and intentionally kill. Not all war is forbidden, and there are circumstances under which the American nation is right to go to war, to protect the American people. Romans 13 shows the civil authority bears not the sword in vain. Take care.

 
T

TDWP22

Guest
#4
#4
2 TO CERO...ANY OF YOU HAVE VERSES TO BACK IT UP??
 
T

TDWP22

Guest
#6
#6
you make me very sad =[
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#8
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#8
It means murder. Don't forget it says you can do this with your mind.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#10
#10
NIV translates it as murder..
Exodus 20 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com <--- Exodus 20(NIV)

Also, this migh be useful.

Our LibraryLexiconsOld Testament Hebrew LexiconOld Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James VersionRatsach
Ratsach
Share this The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 07523
Original Word Word Origin
xcr a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Ratsach TWOT - 2208
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
raw-tsakh' Verb

Definition
to murder, slay, kill
(Qal) to murder, slay
premeditated
accidental
as avenger
slayer (intentional) (participle)
(Niphal) to be slain
(Piel)
to murder, assassinate
murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
(Pual) to be killed


King James Word Usage - Total: 47
slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + (0310) 1, slayeth 1, death 1
Ratsach - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version <--- click
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S

selenah

Guest
#11
#11
Wait, I got it.

Deuteronomy 17


1 Do not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect or flaw in it, for that would be detestable to him. 2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among
 
I

In_Atom

Guest
#12
#12
@TDWP22,

This is exactly the kind of problem that one who rely too much on translations (rather then the original text) will eventually come across.

I ain't a scholar of the greek language, and if we wish to sort out this ambiguity we would have to go back to the original text in order to find out which of the two terms ''murder'' or ''kill'' conveys accuratly the intended meaning of the word used in that passage of exodus. However, I can offer you another alternative and its based on logiic. If the command that says you shall not ''Kill'' is to be taking in its strict and absolute sense, then it wouldnt be reasonable. Forbidding killing out of nowhere with no clear target would mean not to kill ANYTHING, including food (which must be killed if we are to survive). ''Murder'', on the other hand, refers to either unlawful or unjust killing (ex.: killing an innocent person, or killing an animal just for fun etc).
 
T

TDWP22

Guest
#13
#13
In_Atom said:
@TDWP22,

This is exactly the kind of problem that one who rely too much on translations (rather then the original text) will eventually come across.

I ain't a scholar of the greek language, and if we wish to sort out this ambiguity we would have to go back to the original text in order to find out which of the two terms ''murder'' or ''kill'' conveys accuratly the intended meaning of the word used in that passage of exodus. However, I can offer you another alternative and its based on logiic. If the command that says you shall not ''Kill'' is to be taking in its strict and absolute sense, then it wouldnt be reasonable. Forbidding killing out of nowhere with no clear target would mean not to kill ANYTHING, including food (which must be killed if we are to survive). ''Murder'', on the other hand, refers to either unlawful or unjust killing (ex.: killing an innocent person, or killing an animal just for fun etc).
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i was about to ask if anyone knew greek lol well this came across since i remembered what happened to a rapper...he was driving home on the highway, and suddenly there was a car crash on the bridge above and one of the cars happened to fall exactly where the rapper was driving and killed him....another case was in a soccer game, on of the players shot for the goal, the shot was so powerful that when the keeper caught it, his heart stopped
 
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