What happened to the souls of people before Jesus?
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M
What happened to the souls of people before Jesus was born? Those that trusted God and believed His promise of the Savior were saved. Those that did not, were/are not.
Also, what happens to people still in the world who never hear about Jesus and Christianity? All we know is that Scripture tells us that in order to be saved, one must be "born again", John 3.
So...if one is not born again, one is not saved and their final destination is hell.
Also, what happens to people still in the world who never hear about Jesus and Christianity? All we know is that Scripture tells us that in order to be saved, one must be "born again", John 3.
So...if one is not born again, one is not saved and their final destination is hell.
H
<< 1 Peter 4:6 >>
King James Bible
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
And
Paul in the letter to the Romans (CH2) writes about those who have not heard the good news having to act according to a pure conscience which shows they have the law written on their hearts, then they will be judged fairly by Jesus
Ch2 verses 14-16 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.
King James Bible
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
And
Paul in the letter to the Romans (CH2) writes about those who have not heard the good news having to act according to a pure conscience which shows they have the law written on their hearts, then they will be judged fairly by Jesus
Ch2 verses 14-16 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.
E
1. Before Christ. Those who believed God were sent to paradise. Those who did not were sent to "prison" or "hades"
2. Those who have never heard the gospel would have never accepted it even if they did hear it. God is not only omniscient, But omnipresent. We are told that it is the HS who judges the world (this means everyone) of sin righteousness and judgment. And it is his power through this to convict all men and bring them to Christ. Romans 1 Paul tells us no person will have an excuse when they stand before God. this includes never hearing the gospel. For if they would have truly desired salvation and to Know God. God would have sent the Gospel to them. I know many a missionary who went to a people who never heard of Christ. who stated they were seeking him and praying fro God to send them truth. If someone would be positive to the gospel. God will not hesitate to overturn mountains to make sure that person gets the gospel. He is already convicting them through the HS. He knows their hearts. If he knows they would never accept no matter what. He is not obligated to do anything, they are already judged as paul says in romans 1
2. Those who have never heard the gospel would have never accepted it even if they did hear it. God is not only omniscient, But omnipresent. We are told that it is the HS who judges the world (this means everyone) of sin righteousness and judgment. And it is his power through this to convict all men and bring them to Christ. Romans 1 Paul tells us no person will have an excuse when they stand before God. this includes never hearing the gospel. For if they would have truly desired salvation and to Know God. God would have sent the Gospel to them. I know many a missionary who went to a people who never heard of Christ. who stated they were seeking him and praying fro God to send them truth. If someone would be positive to the gospel. God will not hesitate to overturn mountains to make sure that person gets the gospel. He is already convicting them through the HS. He knows their hearts. If he knows they would never accept no matter what. He is not obligated to do anything, they are already judged as paul says in romans 1
E
This verse can not be talking about literally dead people, or those in the grave. For it says that the gospel was preached to them so they could LIVE according to God. even though they are still judged by men. This can not happen if one is dead.
And
Look at romans 1. Everyone born has Gods law written in their hearts. Thus no man will have an excuse. Even Gentiles live secret lives because their conscious judges them when the sin. one day these secrets will be revealed. even people we see as holy rightous law abiding ccitizens will have their secrets exposed. because they have rejected Christ.
One day everyone will stand before God. If they have not recieved Christ. their secrets will be judged and they will be rightly condemned. This does not concern a believer. Because according to paul himself. Christ took our condemnation and nailed it to the cross.
And
Look at romans 1. Everyone born has Gods law written in their hearts. Thus no man will have an excuse. Even Gentiles live secret lives because their conscious judges them when the sin. one day these secrets will be revealed. even people we see as holy rightous law abiding ccitizens will have their secrets exposed. because they have rejected Christ.
One day everyone will stand before God. If they have not recieved Christ. their secrets will be judged and they will be rightly condemned. This does not concern a believer. Because according to paul himself. Christ took our condemnation and nailed it to the cross.
H
Dear E_G
I agree with your second point. But the first I disagree with. The scripture says they are judged as if they are in the flesh, not by men of the flesh. Then when judged and freed from sin by the righteousness of Christ they will live with him in Spirit, because they have no flesh. The flesh was corrupt but in the spirit they will be free.
I agree with your second point. But the first I disagree with. The scripture says they are judged as if they are in the flesh, not by men of the flesh. Then when judged and freed from sin by the righteousness of Christ they will live with him in Spirit, because they have no flesh. The flesh was corrupt but in the spirit they will be free.
E
Sorry, "AS IF" is not in the origional text. The text says they might be judged according to, or in the greek with the genitive noun. Along the way, along side, or down to the flesh. It means as these people are on their journey living a life according to the spirit. They will still be judged by men. We all are judged by men everyday. Thats why God tells us to live a life so no one accuse us. But even if we make a mistake. Men will judge us, But God will not. Also if you read in vs 2. Peter spoke of them being under gentile rule, and following them. most jews considered gentiles unclean, dead to God. many were offended that God gave the gospel to the gentiles also. The dead here could easily mean the gentiles. It could also mean spiritually dead people. But the fact remains. A man who is dead can not live a life according the spirit. So these people could not be dead in the literal sense.
H
"Along the way" means in the same way or according to the same manner. As if they were still in the flesh. As for whether the dead can be "alive" and thus judgeable, t5hat is a matter of faith. I am catholic and so believe the Lord will/does judge the living and the dead and has the keys to heaven and hades and so can release or lock whomever he wants after death.
I also believe, according to the book of Maccabees and the teaching of the Catholic church, in purgatory and that it is possible for the dead to be redeemed. Our sins when we are dead can be atoned for.
I also believe, according to the book of Maccabees and the teaching of the Catholic church, in purgatory and that it is possible for the dead to be redeemed. Our sins when we are dead can be atoned for.
A
they were in the earth
1 Samuel 28
13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit[a] ascending out of the earth.”
14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”
16 Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”
1 Samuel 28
13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit[a] ascending out of the earth.”
14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”
16 Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”
E
Well. Once you are dead. there is no hope. Do you think anyone who has died, and sees there is an afterlife would not chose Christ? Purgatory is nothing but a get out of hell free card. If I am not good enough in this life I still have hope. It is nothing more than a continuance of a works based Gospel based on our deeds. Which God rejects.
Our sins were completely atoned for by Christ on the cross. Nothing else can atone our sins. God does have the keys to hades. They will be delivered to him on judgment day for final judgment. Until then hades is locked up. You can get in, but you can't get out. Those of us who are saved will be risen by him.
Look at lazarus and the rich man. The rich man knew his fate. do you not think he would have repented of his sin to get out of torment. He also asked that one be risen to be sent to his brothers. As he was told. They have the prophets ( the word) if they will not listen to the word. they will not listen to one raised from the dead. Once you die. it is over. If you have rejected the gospel. You have commited the unpardonable sin. which will never be forgiven.
As for the verse. No one who is dead can live a life according to God in the spirit. There is no body for them to live in. They are awaiting their ressurection if they are saved, Or awaiting their deliverance to Christ for judgment. There is no inbetween
Our sins were completely atoned for by Christ on the cross. Nothing else can atone our sins. God does have the keys to hades. They will be delivered to him on judgment day for final judgment. Until then hades is locked up. You can get in, but you can't get out. Those of us who are saved will be risen by him.
Look at lazarus and the rich man. The rich man knew his fate. do you not think he would have repented of his sin to get out of torment. He also asked that one be risen to be sent to his brothers. As he was told. They have the prophets ( the word) if they will not listen to the word. they will not listen to one raised from the dead. Once you die. it is over. If you have rejected the gospel. You have commited the unpardonable sin. which will never be forgiven.
As for the verse. No one who is dead can live a life according to God in the spirit. There is no body for them to live in. They are awaiting their ressurection if they are saved, Or awaiting their deliverance to Christ for judgment. There is no inbetween
H
i believe you are right in some instances. For example if you commit suicide because your soul is in torment there is no hope for you.
If you die from natural causes and have sinned people can successfully pray for you.
As for the unpardonable sin there is only one in the scriptures and that is to say that Jesus had a demon in him because that is an offense against the Holy Spiirit. All other sins and blasphemies can be forgiven. So it is written.
If you die from natural causes and have sinned people can successfully pray for you.
As for the unpardonable sin there is only one in the scriptures and that is to say that Jesus had a demon in him because that is an offense against the Holy Spiirit. All other sins and blasphemies can be forgiven. So it is written.
E
Jesus said ALL sin will be forgiven men. Suicide is a sin, which means it can be forgiven. So I must disagree.
If you die of natural causes and are born again. You have eternal life. And your sin was already forgiven before you died. Again your reverting to a gospel of works. not grace. And no one can pray for the sins of another. We are accountable for ourselves. No one else but Christ can mediate for us.
Actually it is attributing the work of God to satan. Or as the origional word meant. to call the Holy spirit a liar, or dissent from his teachings. In other words. reject the gospel. because the gospel is taught by the holy spirit. On who has died in a spiritually dead state has commited this sin, and is lost forever. One who is alive, still has a chance to repent and accept what the HS says as truth and be saved.
L
Psalms 146:4
(4) His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
John 6:40
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(4) His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
John 6:40
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G
Verse 19 They went to Hell (or Abraham's bosom), Jesus emptied it and at the end this empty Hell will be like a match thrown into a mostly empty gas can (the lake of fire) And that Hell will keep expanding forever. This Hell (Abraham's bosom) isn't the same Hell as the lake of fire will become.
1 Peter 3:18 *¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 *By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 *Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 3:18 *¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 *By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 *Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
D
The souls of the saints who expired before Jesus' first advent went directly to Hades which was an abode specifically designed by God for the residence of departed souls. This abode was divided into sections with the souls of the elect kept in "paradise," while the souls of the non-elect, kept in a 'carcer' awaiting final judgement/extradition to the lake of Fire. The people "still in the world" who never hear about Jesus and Christianity are the non-elect; those whom He predestined he also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified (Romans 8:30). Considering the fact that they are free-moral agents they will be allowed to retain existence i.e. live life, but once they depart this life, instead of receiving grace and mercy from our Creator, they will receive divine justice with their conscience bearing witness (Romans 2:14-16).
Jesus, I believe, is God in flesh. God has always taken care of us, even before he appeared as Jesus Christ.
He looks out after everyone, even those who aren’t told about him. He comes to us himself and speaks to us, not in a way we hear with our ears, but in a way we understand with our mind, if we make ourselves aware of his presence.
He looks out after everyone, even those who aren’t told about him. He comes to us himself and speaks to us, not in a way we hear with our ears, but in a way we understand with our mind, if we make ourselves aware of his presence.
N
1 Peter 3:18-22 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Now Christ has gone to heaven. He is seated in the place of honor next to God, and all the angels and authorities and powers accept his authority.
Now Christ has gone to heaven. He is seated in the place of honor next to God, and all the angels and authorities and powers accept his authority.
The answer is God saved ALL humanity. Tradition and conditioned beliefs are hard to peel off, but the good news is God can orchestrate that peeling away of any false doctrines in you and anyone else who sees how ridiculous their eternal hell torment doctrine is not from God.
Mar 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
"Only those who SEE Jesus, BELIEVE Jesus AND ARE RAISED BY Jesus on the LAST DAY"? No? Well at least, that is what the scriptures below say, but hey, there are many here who say other scriptures are greater than these, so believe them, OK?
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Isa 45:22 LOOK UNTO ME, and be ye saved, ALL the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Now here are some other scriptures that show men "doing" and God "orchestrating". Ready...the list is long, but they all come from the holy scriptures. All scriptures in that KJV unless otherwise noted.
#1) Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#2) Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#3) Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
#4) Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#5) Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#6) Pro 19:21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#7) Pro 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way? (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#8) Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
OK, it is getting really late, so I am just going to list the rest of the scriptures for you to look up on your own. Believe as a child would and rejoice in the truly Good News of the scriptures.
Isaiah 26:12, Isaiah 46:10-11, Isaiah 56:3, Romans 3:11, 19b, 27, Jeremiah 10:23, Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 32:40, Ezekial 36:27, Daniel 4:35, John 1:12,13, John 6:44, John 15:5, John 15:16, Romans 8:20, Romans 9:16, Romans 9:19, 1 Corinthians 1:27-29, Ephesians 1:11, Philipians 2:13, Philipians 3:21, Revelations 17:17.
The real question we have in the heaven and hell issue is just "who is in control here? Man or God" Whose will prevails? What are we saying to God in deifying the WILL OF MAN? "Oh well, Lord, it is a sad thing that....
th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō, Strong‘s #2309. [/FONT][/FONT]The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament [FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]defines [/FONT][/FONT]th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT][/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō at ([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]I[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) ([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]C[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) as ―To will as the equivalent of to purpose, to be decided upon, seeing one‘s desire to its execu-tion…‖([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]V[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) ―[/FONT][/FONT]Th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT][/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō indicates not only willing something, but also pressing on to action.‖[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]24 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]Of more importance than what any lexico-grapher would say, is how the apostles understood Christ when He used the word. [/FONT]
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Mar 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
"Only those who SEE Jesus, BELIEVE Jesus AND ARE RAISED BY Jesus on the LAST DAY"? No? Well at least, that is what the scriptures below say, but hey, there are many here who say other scriptures are greater than these, so believe them, OK?
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Isa 45:22 LOOK UNTO ME, and be ye saved, ALL the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Now here are some other scriptures that show men "doing" and God "orchestrating". Ready...the list is long, but they all come from the holy scriptures. All scriptures in that KJV unless otherwise noted.
#1) Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#2) Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#3) Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
#4) Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#5) Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#6) Pro 19:21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#7) Pro 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way? (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
#8) Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. (pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)
OK, it is getting really late, so I am just going to list the rest of the scriptures for you to look up on your own. Believe as a child would and rejoice in the truly Good News of the scriptures.
Isaiah 26:12, Isaiah 46:10-11, Isaiah 56:3, Romans 3:11, 19b, 27, Jeremiah 10:23, Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 32:40, Ezekial 36:27, Daniel 4:35, John 1:12,13, John 6:44, John 15:5, John 15:16, Romans 8:20, Romans 9:16, Romans 9:19, 1 Corinthians 1:27-29, Ephesians 1:11, Philipians 2:13, Philipians 3:21, Revelations 17:17.
The real question we have in the heaven and hell issue is just "who is in control here? Man or God" Whose will prevails? What are we saying to God in deifying the WILL OF MAN? "Oh well, Lord, it is a sad thing that....
- You cannot have what is yours (Romans 11:36)
- You cannot find what you have lost (Luke 15:4)
- Isaiah was wrong about your hand not being so short it cannot save (Isaiah 59:1)
- The Bible exaggerates in saying nothing is too difficult for you (Jeremiah 32:17)
- Man has robbed the keys of Hades from You (Revelations 1:18)
- He who is in the world is stronger than You (1John 4:4)
- Your propitiation for the whole world is really only for a few (1 John 2:2)
- Your promises to reconcile all things are just exaggerated hopes (Acts 3:21)
- Your hands are tied. You cannot accomplish all your will. (Isaiah 55:11)
- All creatures will not really worship you like you hoped (Revelation 5:13; Philipian 2:10-11)
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:3-6 KJV)
God "will" have all men to be saved. Does this mean God purposes with intent to accomplish His will, or that He merely desires it with no power to make it happen? The Greek word "will" here is
th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō, Strong‘s #2309. [/FONT][/FONT]The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament [FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]defines [/FONT][/FONT]th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT][/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō at ([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]I[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) ([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]C[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) as ―To will as the equivalent of to purpose, to be decided upon, seeing one‘s desire to its execu-tion…‖([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]V[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]) ―[/FONT][/FONT]Th[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]é[/FONT][/FONT]l[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]ō indicates not only willing something, but also pressing on to action.‖[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]24 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]Of more importance than what any lexico-grapher would say, is how the apostles understood Christ when He used the word. [/FONT]
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Jesus said to him, ―If I [FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]will
[/FONT][thelo] that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.‖ Then this say-ing went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, ―[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]if [/FONT][/FONT]I will [thelo] that he remain till I come, what is that to you? [FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia](Jn. 21:22-23). [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,Georgia][FONT=Georgia,Georgia](pssst...I think that might mean His will is stronger than man's will...you thinking?)[/FONT]
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