THE APPEARANCES AT FATIMA AND ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY.

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Scotth1960

Guest
#1

"THE APPEARANCES AT FATIMA
AND ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY"
(Orthodox Christian Witness, August 8/21, 1988)
"Orthodox Interest. According to Roman Catholic claims, between May and October of 1917, the Mother of God appeared six times to three children -- Lucia, Jacinta, and Francisco - in the Portuguese village of Fatima. ... (page 80).
"... when one examines the events at Fatima in detail, it turns out that they were not primarily about Russia at all; rather, they presented or reaffirmed a number of distinctively Roman Catholic doctrines. One must consider these teachings as a whole in order to determine how an Orthodox Christian should view the whole event. (p. 81).
"Who appeared. First of all, it is actually not completely clear who appeared at Fatima. In the first appearance, the apparition made no claim at all to be the Theotokos. Jacinta first identified her as the Virgin Mary, but Lucia initially was doubtful about who the apparition was. In later appearances, the apparition did not always specifically claim to be the Mother of God, but rather spoke of itself, rather oddly, as "Our Lady of the Rosary" and the "Immaculate Heart of Mary." In the fifth appearance, the apparition told the children, "IN October our Lord will come, as well as Our Lady of Dolours and Our Lady of Carmel. Saint Joseph will appear with the Child Jesus to bless the world." This sounds strange to our ears, since it almost seems to imply that these "Ladies" are different people.
"What was Taught. The doctrines presented by the apparition are striking, since they reinforce many of the most unusual and extreme innovations of recent Roman Catholicism. They include the following:
"Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The primary purpose of the apparition was th encourage devotion to the so-called Immaculate Heart of Mary. In the second appearance, the apparition said, "Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart." This devotional practice is related to the cult of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. In the twelfth century a revolution occurred in the devotional practices of the Roman Catholic Church; this revolution was inspired by the preaching of Bernard of Clairveaux and spread widely by Francis of Assisi. As attention was shifted from our redemption by the Resurrection of the Lord to a focus on the Passion of the Lord, and erotic element was introduced into worship and private devotion. The Lord came to be viewed as a companion, friend, and even husband/lover, as is reflected in the marriage imagery which was introduced into Western monasticism (in taking their vows, nuns went through a sort of wedding ceremony, complete with bridal gowns, wedding rings, etc., with the Lord as the groom.) This new devotion stressed the worshipper's individual union with his Mystic Lover, concentrating on the pain of the Lord's suffering and trying to arouse emotional feelings by focusing on His earthly life. Among the manifestations of this new approach to worship are the Feast of the Holy Name, special devotion to the Five Wounds of Christ, the Stations of the Cross, the meditations assigned to the decades of the Rosary, the Christmas "crib" and devotion to the "Baby Jesus" in general, and the cult of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. This latter cult focuses on one part of our Lord's physical body and separates the worship of the human nature of Christ from His Divine nature; for this reason it has never found any acceptance in the Orthodox Church, which encourages its children to worship the Lord in His Divine-human unity, not in each of the natures separately. Orthodoxy has also maintained a much more restrained and objective devotional approach to the Lord, trying to avoid sensuality, sentimentality, and emotionalism.
"Unfortunately, as the Roman Catholic doctrine of Mary has developed in recent centuries, it has tried to parallel every attribute of Christ with one in Mary, going even to the extreme of calling her the Co-Redemptrix of the world and suggesting that she shares in Christ's priesthood in some way. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is one more example of this tendency, paralleling the cult of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. But if the cult of the Sacred Heart is too dangerously overloaded with emotion, sentimentality, and sensuality for it to be acceptable to Orthodoxy, what can we say about an extension of this cult to the Theotokos? The problem here is that Roman Catholicism has lost the orthodox concept of the deification of all of those who participate in God's life-creating, sanctifying, and uncreated grace. The Church Militant and the Church Triumphant -- all, in fact, who are called to be saints and who struggle in this life that is in Christ -- participate in Christ's redemptive work. They are "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation." When the Church's orthodox doctrine of grace, salvation, and deification is forsaken for one which is carnal, erroneous, and distorted, then, inevitably, theological dislocations and aberrations will appear also in regard to the doctrines of the priesthood and redemption. This is especially evident with regard to the position of the Theotokos in Roman Catholicism, where here cultus clearly begins to border on Mariolatry. It is even more objectionable when particular bodily parts of Mary are singled out for particular devotion. (pp. 81-82.).
"In antiquity, there were two heretical sects -- the Antidicomarianites and the Collyridians. The first refused to honor the Theotokos at all and denied her perpetual virginity, the second made her equal to God. Concerning the later, St. Epiphanius of Cyprus writes that "certain women made small loaves and offered them in [Mary's] name in religious rites performed by women ... And in Sikima, the local villagers offer sacrifices in the name of the Maiden [Theotokos]." The Orthodox Church strives ever to preserve the truth, deviating neither to the right nor to the left, but walking on the straight and narrow way which leads to the Kingdom of Heaven. St. Epiphanius writes that both of the extremes reflected in the doctrines and practices of these two aforementioned sects are "the teachings of the demons." "The harm", he writes, "that comes from both of these heresies is equal." We can see that, in regard to the Theotokos, the Protestants tend to reflect the views of the Antidicomarianites, whereas the modern Roman Catholics clearly resemble the Collyridians. Orthodoxy adheres to the middle way, venerating the Theotokos as the holiest of God's creatures and pouring out love for her, but not dishonoring her by falsely exalting here to the status of a goddess. By honoring her purity and holiness and by emulating in our own lives her total obedience to God, we show our true devotion to her." (p. 83).

Source: One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism (Eph. 4:5), Thirty Years of Witness to Orthodox Christianity. Boston, MA: 2001. Holy Orthodox Metropolis of Boston.

God save us all.

Through the prayers of Thy Most Pure Mother, and through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, LORD JESUS CHRIST, Son of GOD, have mercy on us. AMEN AND AMEN. In Erie PA USA July 1, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 
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ELNino

Guest
#2
This has been of great interest to me recently and I hope to find / read more on this subject, thanks for sharing!

The Secret of Fatima
 
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Nov 22, 2012
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#3
Have u watch appearance of Theotokos in Egypt?
 
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ELNino

Guest
#4
Have u watch appearance of Theotokos in Egypt?
No I haven't could you share some links on the subject through pvt message. Thanks!
 
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7seven7

Guest
#6
I just have to say that more than half of what was explained to all you people was complete and utter rubbish. most of that was false and i can only hope that you have a look at the catechism of the catholic church to see what the catholic church teaches about the Blessed Virgin Mary. We are NEVER EVER taught to worship Mary or that mary is in ANY WAY equal to Jesus. We NEVER EVER pray TO mary but ask her to pray FOR us (even though i agree that we don't need anyone to pray for us when we can speak directly to our Lord, but this doesn't make it wrong to ask Mary to pray for us). Most of this rubbish you have read has only been written to mislead you into thinking that the catholic church is, as i have heard before, "doing the devil's work". If you could all just take a little bit of time to get to know the teachings of the catholic church before listening to the RUBBISH that people say about it. I'm not in any way saying that catholics are right and every1 else is wrong, because i dont believe that ANY christians are wrong, just that we all have a different relationship with Christ. And i'm not trying to convert any1 to catholicism, because that would be contradicting my last sentence. But i'm absolutely SICK TO THE GUTS of people making a mockery of the catholic church through ABSOLUTE FALSE RUBBISH!! I spend every minute of my life thinking and living for Christ, just like the Catholic church and ANY REAL christian church teaches i should. God bless you all.
 
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crisico

Guest
#8
check out the links below these apparitions have been going on for 29 years


http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm


http://www.medjugorje.org/messagesall.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeJH3ln-04


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W165TsaFzw
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#9
Sorry to burst the bubble, but I need to share something...


Galatians 1:8: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed"

2 Cor 11:14: "And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light"

2 Thess 2:9: "..the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders"

1 Peter 5:8: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour"

Please don't assume that all 'miracles' and appearances are from God. Satan is a deceiver and a counterfeiter. He transforms himself into a holy angel of light, it's a disguise for him. This is why everything must be tested against scripture. Appearances like these are worrying. They are lying signs and wonders. We're not to expect any appearances, except that of Jesus' second coming. These apparitions seeks to do nothing but deceive. We must be like the Bereans and check everything with scripture!

There is no reason for appearances because there is nothing to add to scripture....

2 Tim 3:16-17: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"
 
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crisico

Guest
#10
Posting one verse and coming to a conclusion can lead to misinterpretation you have to read the entire context...

Matthew 7:15-16

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

All the apparitions are reminding us of constant prayers, saying that most of the world isn't praying any more it was done to remind us of prayers. Praying for the conversion for those who don't believe. Reminding us of the importance of fasting and prayer...

Also note there have been healing at these places now remember the verse.

remember Jesus' reponse to the Jews

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

Matthew 12:25

If demons cast out demons how will the empire stand? There are even similar context in the chapters of Job...

Regarding the Video in Egypt why would Satan want to stop war? doesn't he like destruction and people being killed. The apparition brought peace at that time and prevented a massive slaughter..

If people don't want to believe that's their choice but whoever does comment on this thread Kindly don't disrespect. Thanks God bless!
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#11
Posting one verse and coming to a conclusion can lead to misinterpretation you have to read the entire context.
Just because I post a verse does not mean I haven't read it in it's entirety. I don't post random verses, I actually understand warnings in scripture. The scriptures I shared came to my mind instantly when I read this thread.

In that Galatians scripture I posted, Paul is warning that it's not WHO teaches, but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine who false prophets and teachers are. Paul said even if an angel turns up, ignore them. Don't base it on appearances. Don't believe everything you see or hear, check everything with scripture. He was warning that appearances will be deceiving, because many might be seen as being like Paul when actually what they teach is contrary to scripture. Many wolves out there in sheep's clothing.

Satan transforms himself into a holy angel of light. Yes, he is behind all the evil going on in the world, but he's a deceiver and often wears a 'holy' mask as a disguise. People are not deceived by blatant evil. Satan doesn't show up and wave. The only way to deceive is when the person doesn't know they're being deceived.


All the apparitions are reminding us of constant prayers, saying that most of the world isn't praying any more it was done to remind us of prayers. Praying for the conversion for those who don't believe. Reminding us of the importance of fasting and prayer...
The apparitions are usually said to be Mary. I read about one where 'she' was encouraging everyone to keep praying to her and praying their rosary. These things are contrary to scripture. Whatever she says people will believe because they truly think it's all from God.


Also note there have been healing at these places now remember the verse.

remember Jesus' reponse to the Jews

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

Matthew 12:25

If demons cast out demons how will the empire stand?
God heals, not Mary. These apparitions seek to do nothing but deceive. 2 years ago I was healed directly by God. If it's in His will He will heal a person.

We go by faith, not by sight.

God gave us Jesus. Any appearance of another being is not biblical and cannot be trusted. We're waiting for Christ's second coming, not an appearance of Mary.


Regarding the Video in Egypt why would Satan want to stop war? doesn't he like destruction and people being killed. The apparition brought peace at that time and prevented a massive slaughter..
Satan's a deceiver. Don't you see? A deceiver is one that is not easily detected. In this case scripture says that Satan transforms himself into a holy angel of light, so he puts on a mask to disguise himself. Satan is everywhere, he is the one behind all the evil but also the one behind false religions that keep people on the broad road, heading for destruction. If a person is on the broad road he will try to keep them there.

In the end times a 'man of sin' will show up, bringing false peace. There will be no peace until Christ returns.

Putting trust in miraculous visits from angels or 'Mary' is worrying and you have fallen for the deception that we've been warned about. This is a delusion and you are believing the lie, not believing the truth.


If people don't want to believe that's their choice but whoever does comment on this thread Kindly don't disrespect. Thanks God bless!
All I did was share the word of God and I'm sorry is His word offends you.

You're in the bible discussion forum. We like to discuss biblical things here, so I responded with scripture.

An appearance from an unknown angel cannot be trusted and scripture warns us of these things. You are choosing to accept what you see with your eyes, rather than the word of God.

When the man of sin (antichrist) shows up, bringing a false peace, you will fall for that one as well.
 
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Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#12
Too much to post here. Check this link --> Are apparitions of Mary, such as Lady Fatima, true messages from God?




Question: "Are apparitions of Mary, such as Lady Fatima, true messages from God?"

Answer:
In Catholic tradition, there are many reported occurrences of Mary, angels, and/or saints appearing and delivering a message from God. It is likely that, at least in some of these cases, the people were genuinely seeing something supernatural. While some of what is seen in various places is perhaps the work of charlatans, other apparitions were apparently authentic. However, an apparition being authentic does not mean it is a message from God or a genuine appearance of Mary, an angel, or a saint. Scripture declares that Satan and his demons masquerade as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). Satanic deception is just as possible an explanation for the apparitions.

The only way to determine whether an apparition is a "lying wonder" or a genuine message from God is to compare the message of the apparition with Scripture. If the teachings that are attached to these apparitions are contrary to the Word of God, the apparitions themselves are then satanic in nature. A study of the teachings of Our Lady Fatima with the "Miracle of the Sun" is a good example.

It would indeed seem that something spectacular happened on October 13, 1917, and that “something” did in fact appear and deliver a message. The fact that its timing coincided with what had been told to the shepherd children three months earlier would seem to tie this event with the apparitions they had been seeing over the previous months, first of the angel and later of the "Lady of Fatima."

When one compares the message of Fatima to what the Bible teaches, it is evident that the message of Fatima combines some biblical truth with several unbiblical practices and teachings. The following paragraphs are quoted directly from a website dedicated to the "Lady of Fatima". Specific words or sentences are underlined to indicate them to be unbiblical (not taught by the Bible), or anti-biblical (contradictory to the Bible). Following the lengthy quotations, more information will be given with specific reasons for classifying these apparitions as "lying wonders." Here then is a quoted summary of the overall message given by the Lady of Fatima:


The Message of Lady Fatima in General

"The general Message of Fatima is not complicated. Its requests are for prayer, reparation, repentance, and sacrifice, and the abandonment of sin. Before Our Lady appeared to the three shepherd children, Lucy, Francisco and Jacinta, the Angel of Peace visited them. The Angel prepared the children to receive the Blessed Virgin Mary, and his instructions are an important aspect of the Message that is often overlooked.

"The Angel demonstrated to the children the fervent, attentive, and composed manner in which we should all pray, and the reverence we should show toward God in prayer. He also explained to them the great importance of praying and making sacrifices in reparation for the offenses committed against God. He told them: 'Make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication, for the conversion of sinners.' In his third and final apparition to the children, the Angel gave them Holy Communion, and demonstrated the proper way to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist: all three children knelt to receive Communion; Lucy was given the Sacred Host on the tongue and the Angel shared the Blood of the Chalice between Francisco and Jacinta.

"Our Lady stressed the importance of praying the Rosary in each of Her apparitions, asking the children to pray the Rosary every day for peace. Another principal part of the Message of Fatima is devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart, which is terribly outraged and offended by the sins of humanity, and we are lovingly urged to console Her by making reparation. She showed Her Heart, surrounded by piercing thorns (which represented the sins against Her Immaculate Heart), to the children, who understood that their sacrifices could help to console Her.

"The children also saw that God is terribly offended by the sins of humanity, and that He desires each of us and all mankind to abandon sin and make reparation for their crimes through prayer and sacrifice. Our Lady sadly pleaded: 'Do not offend the Lord our God any more, for He is already too much offended!'

"The children were also told to pray and sacrifice themselves for sinners, in order to save them from hell. The children were briefly shown a vision of hell, after which Our Lady told them: 'You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.'

"Our Lady indicated to us the specific root of all the troubles in the world, the one that causes world wars and such terrible suffering: sin. She then gave a solution, first to individual people, then to the Church’s leaders. God asks each one of us to stop offending Him. We must pray, especially the Rosary. By this frequent prayer of the Rosary, we will get the graces we need to overcome sin. God wants us to have devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and to work to spread this devotion throughout the world. Our Lady said, 'My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.' If we wish to go to God, we have a sure way to Him through true devotion to the Immaculate Heart of His Mother.

"In order to move ever closer to Her, and therefore to Her Son, Our Lady stressed the importance of praying at least five decades of the Rosary daily. She asked us to wear the Brown Scapular. And we must make sacrifices, especially the sacrifice of doing our daily duty, in reparation for the sins committed against Our Lord and Our Lady. She also stressed the necessity of prayers and sacrifices to save poor sinners from hell. The Message of Fatima, to individual souls, is summarized in these things."

On the same website, there is recorded an interview between Sister Lucy (the 10-year-old shepherd girl who was among the three children who saw the apparitions in 1917) and a Father Fuentes. The interview took place in 1957. In this interview focusing on Fatima and its message, Sister Lucy says the following:

"Father, the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Blessed Virgin, and the devil knows what it is that most offends God, and which in a short space of time will gain for him the greatest number of souls. Thus the devil does everything to overcome souls consecrated to God, because in this way the devil will succeed in leaving the souls of the faithful abandoned by their leaders, thereby the more easily to seize them.

"Father, the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world, but She made me understand this for three reasons. The first reason is because She told me that the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin. And a decisive battle is the final battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer defeat. Hence from now on we must choose sides. Either we are for God or we are for the devil; there is no other possibility.

"The second reason is because She said to my cousins as well as to myself, that God is giving two last remedies to the world. They are the Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others.

"The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence, God always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other remedies. Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever then, as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with a certain trepidation the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother. It is with a certain trepidation because if you despise and reject this ultimate means, we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven, because we will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Ghost. This sin consists of openly rejecting, with full knowledge and consent, the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother. We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother.

"The two means for saving the world are prayer and sacrifice. [Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucy said:] Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin, in these last times in which we live, has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary we will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls. "Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, our Most Holy Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of goodness and of pardon, and as the sure door of entering Heaven."



In the above paragraphs concerning the message that Sister Lucy felt that the apparition wished to communicate to the world, there are so many things that are not only not found in Scripture but are contrary to Scripture.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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#13
check out the links below these apparitions have been going on for 29 years


http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm


http://www.medjugorje.org/messagesall.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeJH3ln-04


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W165TsaFzw
U know,i have heard for Medjugorje,am living at Serbia,it in near,but i have never heard about some great miracles there.I am Orthodox,we do not have R Catholic here,so maybe i wasn't be able to hear for them.How ever,Holy Theotokos is the most closer Saint to Jesus Christ,He loved her very much and by her prayers Jesus will give His mercy and bless on us.
I haven't read Scott1960 entire post.There are many differences between East and West Church,but what we must do it to follow the way of the Holy Fathers.No new things in Faith if we want to keep it in communion with them.They knew the way,we have to follow!