Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 63
Like Tree4Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: the function of the 144,000

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default the function of the 144,000

    I have heard sermons where pastors say that the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation are tribulation evangelists for Christ but I see nothing in the Bible that says this. In fact the passages that mention them say that they are going to be sealed and that they are virgins, That they will follow the Lamb wherever He goes,. That they will be redeemed from among men, being first fruits to God and to the Lamb, that in their mouths will be no deceit, and they will be without fault before the throne of God.
    But there is nothing that says they will be evangelists for God. My question is, where do people who teach that they will be evangelists get this idea? Have I missed something? Because if I have, again, where is it?

    Revelation 7:2-8
    Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
    5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
    6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
    7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
    8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.


    Revelation 14:1-5
    1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
    ANIOHEVTORAH likes this.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 21st, 2009
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,955
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    They will preach after the rapture to the hard heads who wouldn't listen.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by loveschild View Post
    They will preach after the rapture to the hard heads who wouldn't listen.
    Yes, that is what some people teach but where in the Bible does it say the 144,000 will preach after the rapture? As that was my purpose for posting this thread and I put the verses regarding the 144,000 in my first post and it doesn't say that they will be preaching in fact, unless there is some other scriptural referrence I am missing, it doesn't say what their function is. Again, where is the Bible does it say what you are claiming? Please don't refer me to some talk by some pastor saying it is so but use the Bible to back it up.
    ANIOHEVTORAH likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Revelation 14:6-7

    6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
    So it appears that there is going to be an angel at the end of the ages who will be making sure everyone on the planet has heard the gospel but this isn't the 144,000
    Powemm and ANIOHEVTORAH like this.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    March 12th, 2009
    Age
    48
    Posts
    463
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    I have heard sermons where pastors say that the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation are tribulation evangelists for Christ but I see nothing in the Bible that says this. In fact the passages that mention them say that they are going to be sealed and that they are virgins, That they will follow the Lamb wherever He goes,. That they will be redeemed from among men, being first fruits to God and to the Lamb, that in their mouths will be no deceit, and they will be without fault before the throne of God.
    But there is nothing that says they will be evangelists for God. My question is, where do people who teach that they will be evangelists get this idea? Have I missed something? Because if I have, again, where is it?

    Revelation 7:2-8
    Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
    5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
    6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
    7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
    8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.


    Revelation 14:1-5
    1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
    Peace be to you
    I follow the lamb,I am celebit,I preach to everyone(muslim,atheist,satanist,jewish,evangelist ,false christians,and thanks be to God believers),I am not bound to a church,I do not take moneys from anyone.I walk with God.I am sealed

    Does this help you?

    Love a friend in God

  6. #6
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2010
    Age
    58
    Posts
    27,204
    Rep Power
    80

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    I have heard sermons where pastors say that the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation are tribulation evangelists for Christ but I see nothing in the Bible that says this. In fact the passages that mention them say that they are going to be sealed and that they are virgins, That they will follow the Lamb wherever He goes,. That they will be redeemed from among men, being first fruits to God and to the Lamb, that in their mouths will be no deceit, and they will be without fault before the throne of God.
    But there is nothing that says they will be evangelists for God. My question is, where do people who teach that they will be evangelists get this idea? Have I missed something? Because if I have, again, where is it?

    Revelation 7:2-8
    Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
    5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
    6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
    7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
    8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
    of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.


    Revelation 14:1-5
    1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
    hi kentappel.

    reading Rev 14:1-5 slowly several times; keeping in mind John is taken forward in time to The Lord's Day, looks forwards and backwards time; sees things in heaven and things on earth.....i believe in keeping with the genre and the language of THE VISION (And i saw/And i heard), this is a VISION john saw of the heavenly realm, NEW JERUSALEM, with Christ and His firstfruits from the israelites: they are already with Him.

    i believe this vision, if we zoom back and look at the context on either side of it, John has just seen the tribulation happening on earth, now he is shown Jesus standing in triumph on Zion, with His firstfruits as they stand (much like Peter saw Jesus Moses and Elijah on the Mt of Transfiguration) overlooking the scene, IN TRIUMPH.

    here's a matching passage from Hebrews (who would understand the same symbolism and language John used in Revelation). i believe Paul was the writer of Hebrews - but look at the contrast between Mt Sinai of Moses compared to 'Mount Zion THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM'....see how the Mount Zion Heavenly Jerusalem is not a mountain that can "be touched"; notice the contrast between darkness and thundering and trumpets (earth), and harps and songs and redemption in Rev.

    Hebrews 12
    18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

    22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    short answer: i believe the 144,000 are already with Him. this is firmed up by the other images in John's visions (earth/heaven/earth/heaven, etc).


    zone
    Last edited by zone; July 9th, 2011 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    hi kentappel.

    reading Rev 14:1-5 slowly several times; keeping in mind John is taken forward in time to The Lord's Day, looks forwards and backwards time; sees things in heaven and things on earth.....i believe in keeping with the genre and the language of THE VISION (And i saw/And i heard), this is a VISION john saw of the heavenly realm, NEW JERUSALEM, with Christ and His firstfruits from the israelites: they are already with Him.

    i believe this vision, if we zoom back and look at the context on either side of it, John has just seen the tribulation happening on earth, now he is shown Jesus standing in triumph on Zion, with His firstfruits as they stand (much like Peter saw Jesus Moses and Elijah on the Mt of Transfiguration) overlooking the scene, IN TRIUMPH.

    here's a matching passage from Hebrews (who would understand the same symbolism and language John used in Revelation). i believe Paul was the writer of Hebrews - but look at the contrast between Mt Sinai of Moses compared to 'Mount Zion THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM'....see how the Mount Zion Heavenly Jerusalem is not a mountain that can "be touched"; notice the contrast between darkness and thundering and trumpets (earth), and harps and songs and redemption in Rev.

    Hebrews 12
    18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

    22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    short answer: i believe the 144,000 are already with Him. this is firmed up by the other images in John's visions (earth/heaven/earth/heaven, etc).


    zone
    Well at least them being with him, from Revelation 14, is in the Bible but, to be honest with you, I get tired of pastors who claim to only teach the Bible teaching things that can't be found in the Bible. I used to to just listen and accept what they were saying for example the 144,000 being some sort of tribulation evangelists.

    Regarding end times stuff, a lot of it seems to be symbolic espeically the stuff in Revelation and I am really not sure about the pre trib verses post trib teaching. Personally I think Jesus' second coming and the rapture are the same event but I can see how people could see it the other way.

    The only thiing that is stated clearly is at the end of the ages Satan and his demons and anyone not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire so God wins in the end and Satan loses.

    I attend a non denominational church that takes the dispensationlist view and although they really don't stress it too much, I get some puzzled looks if I question things most people in our church take for granted.

    I haven't heard anything about the 144,000 in a sermon yet as I haven't been attending there very long but tommorow I think I will ask the pastor about it and see if he says they are tribulation evangelists. My feeling is he will say that they are but maybe think it odd when I ask him where in the Bible does it say so. I think often people, even pastors, just repeat what they have heard.

  8. #8
    AnandaHya
    Guest

    Cool Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    to be honest with you, I get tired of pastors who claim to only teach the Bible teaching things that can't be found in the Bible. yeah its annoying


    I attend a non denominational church that takes the dispensationlist view and although they really don't stress it too much, I get some puzzled looks if I question things most people in our church take for granted. yeah that's annoying too, why aren't people curious about knowing more about God?

    I haven't heard anything about the 144,000 in a sermon yet as I haven't been attending there very long but tommorow I think I will ask the pastor about it and see if he says they are tribulation evangelists. My feeling is he will say that they are but maybe think it odd when I ask him where in the Bible does it say so. I think often people, even pastors, just repeat what they have heard.

    yes they do often repeat doctrine without throughly testing it.

    I respect the pastors that tell me they don't know the answers but will research and pray about it and get back to me or if they say we should pray about it.

    but we are each responsible for our sanctification and learning and growth in Christ. Pastors are there to help but the Holy Spirit is our True teacher.

    I haven't figured out the 144,000 yet either.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    February 2nd, 2011
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,060
    Rep Power
    0

    Post Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    Yes, that is what some people teach but where in the Bible does it say the 144,000 will preach after the rapture? As that was my purpose for posting this thread and I put the verses regarding the 144,000 in my first post and it doesn't say that they will be preaching in fact, unless there is some other scriptural referrence I am missing, it doesn't say what their function is. Again, where is the Bible does it say what you are claiming? Please don't refer me to some talk by some pastor saying it is so but use the Bible to back it up.
    It's better to avoid reading Revelation. It's too difficult to understand. Even the best of the Orthodox Church commentaries don't reveal everything about the end times. Indeed, no one knows the day nor the hour, as Christ said. So we should not expect or believe anyone in our generation is going to figure out the literal or true meaning of the Book of Revelation. It's a book sealed up for the time of the end. And no one has known when the end times will begin. It's all meaningless speculation, and most of it is driven by greed for money.
    See Jim Bakker's book that shows the pre tribulation rapture doctrine today is motivated by greed for money, not for love of the truth of the Bible. The pre tribulation rapture was not taught before the 1830s.
    It's an error!
    God save us from pretribulationism! Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
    See: John 17:15. Amen.


  10. #10
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2010
    Age
    58
    Posts
    27,204
    Rep Power
    80

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    Well at least them being with him, from Revelation 14, is in the Bible but, to be honest with you, I get tired of pastors who claim to only teach the Bible teaching things that can't be found in the Bible. I used to to just listen and accept what they were saying for example the 144,000 being some sort of tribulation evangelists..
    i'm not a pastor, and i'm not teaching anything.
    these are the results of my own studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    Regarding end times stuff, a lot of it seems to be symbolic espeically the stuff in Revelation and I am really not sure about the pre trib verses post trib teaching. Personally I think Jesus' second coming and the rapture are the same event but I can see how people could see it the other way...
    i don't believe in pretrib anything.
    Jesus Second Coming and the rapture ARE the same event.

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    The only thiing that is stated clearly is at the end of the ages Satan and his demons and anyone not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire so God wins in the end and Satan loses..
    there's more we can see written clearly, but from what i can tell, it lines up with your beliefs (no pretrib, the 144,000 not evangelists).

  11. #11
    Abiding
    Guest

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    144000 is an expression, a term, ultimate, complete,maximim redemption of true saints.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 15th, 2011
    Age
    22
    Posts
    2,420
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Those like you said is evangelists after the rapture. The church will be raptured, and Israel will be these evangelist. If you want scriptures to study about this read Romans 11 I believe it talks about Israel.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    144000 is an expression, a term, ultimate, complete,maximim redemption of true saints.
    That is pure speculation on your part as not all redeemed saints will be male virgins.

    Revelation 14:4


    4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy4GODword View Post
    Those like you said is evangelists after the rapture. The church will be raptured, and Israel will be these evangelist. If you want scriptures to study about this read Romans 11 I believe it talks about Israel.
    Yes, Romans 11 is talking about Israel but it is talking about how Israel rejected the gospel but they will not be cut off from saving grace to those of them who will believe but it doesn't say anything about the 144,000 so, again, you also are repeating what others teach about them being tribulaton evangelists without anything in the Bible to back up your statement.

    If the Bible doesn't specifically say anywhere what you claim, then we don't know that it is their funcition.

    Again, someone quote scripture that says the 144,000 will be tribulation evangelists. Is that too much to ask?

    What is the big deal you ask? Well, I am just tired of people teaching things that aren't in the Bible and while I wouldn't consider myself out of fellowship with someone who does so on a side issue such as this, I really would like to learn what the Bible teaches about everything it talks about and not learn about what it deosn't talk about.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    June 13th, 2011
    Age
    59
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Add on to my last post, Romans 11 does say that all Israel will be saved so that could be referrencing the 144,000, that people from all of the tribes of Isreael will come to faith but it still doesn't say the function of the 144,000 is to be tribulation evangelists.

    Romans 11:25-27



    25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:


    “ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
    And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
    27 For this is My covenant with them,
    When I take away their sins.”

  16. #16
    AnandaHya
    Guest

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    one thing about Revelations no one has answered is why do people think it is the Apostle John and not John the Baptist who wrote Revelations?

    He was sent to prison, why could it not be on the island of Patmos?

    Everyone knows he was called a prophet and gave testimony to Jesus. just read these Bible verses:

    Mark 11
    27 Then they came again to Jerusalem. And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders came to Him. 28 And they said to Him, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?”
    29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one question; then answer Me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things: 30 The baptism of John—was it from heaven or from men? Answer Me.”
    31 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 32 But if we say, ‘From men’”—they feared the people, for all counted John to have been a prophet indeed. 33 So they answered and said to Jesus, “We do not know.”
    And Jesus answered and said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”


    what did John say about Jesus that the Pharisees not believe?
    Last edited by AnandaHya; July 10th, 2011 at 08:19 AM.

  17. #17
    Deadflesh
    Guest

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by kentappel View Post
    Yes, Romans 11 is talking about Israel but it is talking about how Israel rejected the gospel but they will not be cut off from saving grace to those of them who will believe but it doesn't say anything about the 144,000 so, again, you also are repeating what others teach about them being tribulaton evangelists without anything in the Bible to back up your statement.

    If the Bible doesn't specifically say anywhere what you claim, then we don't know that it is their funcition.

    Again, someone quote scripture that says the 144,000 will be tribulation evangelists. Is that too much to ask?

    What is the big deal you ask? Well, I am just tired of people teaching things that aren't in the Bible and while I wouldn't consider myself out of fellowship with someone who does so on a side issue such as this, I really would like to learn what the Bible teaches about everything it talks about and not learn about what it deosn't talk about.

    Hello kentappel,

    IN revelation, it doesnt say they WILL be evengelists, it doesnt say they wont. It says they will SERVE the lord. Thats it. It was tradition of men, that made them into virgin jews who tell everyone about Jesus. (which is REALLY hard to do with out the holy spirit, which dispensationlists belive will be gone...so...to them..there will not be an indwelling spirit...so how does this work?)

    What the BIBLE DOES say is this.

    Rev 14:1-5
    "...Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless "

    Ok:

    They are AT Mt. Zion ("But you are come to mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem" Hebrews 12:22)

    They had been redeemed ("who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds." Titus 2:14)

    They did not "defile themselves with women" "pure virgins" ( "For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin." 2 Corinthians 11:2 ....OR..."For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." Matthew 19:12 ....I have heard either explination....i guess either can be right)

    First fruits (He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created." James 1:18)


    No lie Was found in there mouth(false word/teaching/witness) ("But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars--their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8)

    Blameless (so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, Phillipians 2:15 AND "who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:8)

    Thats what I get from it. I hope maybe that it sheds some light on some thigns. But MOST popular teachign....on MOST of revelation...is faaar off.

  18. #18
    Deadflesh
    Guest

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    one thing about Revelations no one has answered is why do people think it is the Apostle John and not John the Baptist who wrote Revelations?

    He was sent to prison, why could it not be on the island of Patmos?

    Everyone knows he was called a prophet and gave testimony to Jesus. just read these Bible verses:

    Mark 11
    27 Then they came again to Jerusalem. And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders came to Him. 28 And they said to Him, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?”
    29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one question; then answer Me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things: 30 The baptism of John—was it from heaven or from men? Answer Me.”
    31 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 32 But if we say, ‘From men’”—they feared the people, for all counted John to have been a prophet indeed. 33 So they answered and said to Jesus, “We do not know.”
    And Jesus answered and said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”

    what did John say about Jesus that the Pharisees not believe?
    Revelations was written to Churches Anandahya, John the baptist was dead before ANY churches were built.

    Also, Jesus says " I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.</SPAN> "

    John died before Jesus was crucified.

    But hey, at least your questioning traditions...Just becarefull Jesus bless you

  19. #19
    Senior Member Laodicea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 30th, 2011
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,874
    Blog Entries
    18
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth1960 View Post
    It's better to avoid reading Revelation. It's too difficult to understand. Even the best of the Orthodox Church commentaries don't reveal everything about the end times. Indeed, no one knows the day nor the hour, as Christ said. So we should not expect or believe anyone in our generation is going to figure out the literal or true meaning of the Book of Revelation. It's a book sealed up for the time of the end. And no one has known when the end times will begin. It's all meaningless speculation, and most of it is driven by greed for money.
    See Jim Bakker's book that shows the pre tribulation rapture doctrine today is motivated by greed for money, not for love of the truth of the Bible. The pre tribulation rapture was not taught before the 1830s.
    It's an error!
    God save us from pretribulationism! Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
    See: John 17:15. Amen.

    Revelation 1:3
    (3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    Revelation 22:10
    (10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
    Revelation 1:1
    (1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:



  20. #20
    AnandaHya
    Guest

    Default Re: the function of the 144,000

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadflesh View Post
    Revelations was written to Churches Anandahya, John the baptist was dead before ANY churches were built.

    Also, Jesus says " I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.</SPAN> "

    John died before Jesus was crucified.

    But hey, at least your questioning traditions...Just becarefull Jesus bless you
    ever heard of prophecy?

    and how do you know the churches were not established by John? if they weren't established by John who established them? Paul?

    John the Baptist had followers he baptized and established.

    Mark 1:14
    Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

    Mark 6:25
    Immediately she came in with haste to the king and asked, saying, “I want you to give me at once the head of John the Baptist on a platter.”

    now what happens between Mark Chapter 1 and Chapter 6?

    Jesus begins His ministry. John the Baptist is not imprisoned until after Jesus temptation in the desert and his baptism by John.

    now think about it who are the sheep that are spoken of here? who was the shepherd that had just been killed? whose disciples are being referred to in this passage? why do people not think John the baptist had churches and followers, was he so loved and welcomed by the synagogues?

    Mark 6
    29 When his disciples heard of it, they came and took away his corpse and laid it in a tomb.
    30 Then the apostles gathered to Jesus and told Him all things, both what they had done and what they had taught. 31 And He said to them, “Come aside by yourselves to a deserted place and rest a while.” For there were many coming and going, and they did not even have time to eat. 32 So they departed to a deserted place in the boat by themselves.
    33 But the multitudes[d] saw them departing, and many knew Him and ran there on foot from all the cities. They arrived before them and came together to Him. 34 And Jesus, when He came out, saw a great multitude and was moved with compassion for them, because they were like sheep not having a shepherd. So He began to teach them many things.


    did you notice even Jesus had his apostles rest for a time?

    just wondering. everyone just jumps to the conclusion it can't be John the Baptist but I haven't heard anyone really tell me why it can't be.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rapture= false teaching
    By miktre in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 2988
    Last Post: August 5th, 2015, 09:37 AM
  2. Guest function and more traffic to this site ideas...
    By InHisLove in forum Suggestions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 25th, 2009, 03:45 PM
  3. Turn off the voice function
    By Woppo in forum Suggestions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2009, 06:13 PM